Discuss Detroit Archives - July 2007 9th Michigan Railroad History Conference Sat. Nov. 10 in Owosso Previous Next
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Bob_cosgrove
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Username: Bob_cosgrove

Post Number: 582
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 1:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 9th Michigan Railroad History Conference takes place Saturday, November 10th at the Memorial Hospital Auditorium, 826 King Street, Owosso, Michigan 48867.

For reservations and more information go to www.michiganrailroadhistory.or g

or the calendar of events at www.michiganrailroads.com

or contact MRHC Chair Greg Degowski at (248) 547-4783 or gjdegowski@comast.net

Advance reservations are required; the cost of the conference is $45 and the Afterglow at the Steam Research Institute (Project 1225) Museum and engine facility is $10.

Conference day registration opens at 8:00 a.m. and the program begins at 8:40 a.m. lasting until 5:00 p.m. with a buffet lunch at noon.

For those who choose, from 5:30 p.m. until 8:00 p.m., there will be an Afterglow at the Steam Railroading Institute Museum and tour of SRI engine facility housing former Pere Marquette 2-8-4 Berkshire type Number 1225.

Papers to be Presented

"Copper Country Railroads"
George Anderson
"Ann Arbor Railroad Yards"
T. J. Gaffney & Andy Vander Molen
"Development of the U.S. Standard Boxcar"
Vince Robinson
"Railroads in the Thumb of Michigan"
Darwin Simonaitis
"Preservation of Michigan Depots"
Ron Campbell & Jackie Hoist
"Railroads of Milwaukee Junction"
Bob Cosgrove
"Northern Division of the Michigan Rwy.
Norm Krentel
"Building the Detroit & Pontiac"
Paul Trap
"History of Amtrak"
John DeLora
"Pere Marquette N-1 Class 2-8-4s"
Rod Crawford
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Zxzm
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Username: Zxzm

Post Number: 39
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 1:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Will they be firing up the 1225?
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 3887
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 1:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan railroad history = a fine history of removing rail lines and effectively ending useful passenger service.
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Bob_cosgrove
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Username: Bob_cosgrove

Post Number: 583
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 2:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As far as I know the 1225 will probably not be under steam - but who knows? You might want to check with the SRI.

Bob Cosgrove
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 956
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 6:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bob...
.....is your paper going to be published somewhere, like maybe in the GTW Historical Society "Semaphore"?

I've got fond memories of riding the Shoppers Special on Saturdays from Royal Oak to Milwaukee Jct. or Brush Street. While I'm at it, do you know if Art Weber is still alive?
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Crystal
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Username: Crystal

Post Number: 53
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 7:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 1225 is a great locomotive. I believe it is 16 feet tall, and almost as big as Henry Ford Museum's 1601. The 1225 is worth seeing whether in motion or in the shop.
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Zxzm
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Username: Zxzm

Post Number: 42
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 10:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's big, but not nearly as big as the Allegheny at the Henry Ford.
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 1187
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 9:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw wrote, "a fine history of removing rail lines and effectively ending useful passenger service."

So you'd rather have the railroads keep running all those low-density lines and money-losing passenger trains, going bankrupt the whole way?

Railroads are in business to make money, and they often weren't in Michigan before deregulation in 1980 finally allowed them to stop running freights on lines that were hopelessly unprofitable. As for common-carrier passenger trains, name me one outside the Northeast that's profitable, and I'll sell you a piece of the moon.

Perhaps there should be more subsidies for Amtrak, and there should have been a better effort to keep certain lines' right of way intact after abandonment-- in case the business ever returned. But that's a job for government, not private railroads that must pay certain taxes on land, even if it's not used anymore.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 3905
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 11:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wasn't really making a point, except that the history is a sad one.

There are a lot of people who won't drive more than a couple hours or don't want to purchase 100 dollars in gasoline who never see some of great up north destinations because you can't take a train up there anymore.

The blame could go to many different people, but I wasn't considered with that. You can probably put the government first, for building so many free-access highways.
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 1188
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 1:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry for being snippy, Mackinaw. I see your point.
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Bob_cosgrove
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Username: Bob_cosgrove

Post Number: 584
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 2:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Douglasm asked if I planned to publish my paper on Milwaukee Junction.

Actually, it's already in print in "Milwaukee Junction - Cradle of the Automobile Industry" a 30-some page illustrated pamphlet.

This was published in 2004 by the Detroit Historical Museum with the backing of a consortoium of historical and other organizations inlucding the Motor Cities Automotive Heritage Area, National Park Serivce, Wayne State University Walter & Mae Reuther Archives, the City of Detroit Historic Designation Advisory Board and many more.

It will be available free to Michigan Railorad History Conference attendees.

Or, it should be avilable in the Detroit Historical Museum's gift shop for about $3 - if it isn't in the gift shop, let me know, With the Detroit Historical Society now manaaging the gift shop, they may not know where we have them stored at the Museum.

Bob Cosgrove
Adjunct Curator,
Glancy Trains Collection
Detroit Historical Museum
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 2003
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 4:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wish I could join you and your fellow historians in Owosso on that Sunday as the whole program sounds interesting and informative.
I got up at 6AM a few weeks ago and drove up to Gladwin for their "Depot Days", just to see the mighty 1225 come steaming into town. That was the first time I had seen this awesome locomotive, and to see it operable rather than as a static display was really a thrill. What a sight to behold.
This month's Michigan History magazine has a very interesting article on the RR that was formed in the Huron Mountains many moons ago in the U.P. The track, right of way, steam engines and rolling stock were FINALLY all in place and ready to go, but it never did. Never ran. Not one mile!! How sad, that bankruptcy won the day. I assume you have already digested the article.
Good luck in Owosso. Say hi to Tom Dewey for me.
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Bob_cosgrove
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Username: Bob_cosgrove

Post Number: 585
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 11:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rock,

Sorry to hear you won't be able to make the 9th Michigan Railroad History Conference.

For the 10th MRHC, we expect you to make it up by giving a paper on Great Lakes and Detroit River Railroad Car Ferries.

Bob Cosgrove
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 958
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 1:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bob...
....thank you for the information on your paper.

I do have a question. If you are (were?) standing on the Milwaukee Junction platform looking north across the diamond, what was in the building to the northwest? The curve of the building follows the curve of the connector between the Detroit Division (Holly Sub?) and the NYC/GTW line heading west?
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Bob_cosgrove
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Username: Bob_cosgrove

Post Number: 587
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 9:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's the rear of Russell Properties - the railroader's nickname for this curve in the northwest quandrant of Milwaukee Junction is "Sugar House curve" - so named for the building on northeast quantrant on Clay, which originally was Edgar's Sugar House - the sugar and food wholesaler's warehouse.

Bob Cosgrove
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 551
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 10:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Machinaw,

the history of rail will be a continuation of building more roads because we all clog them all up and all talk about passenger rail. I took actions and filled up the buses by my house when they were shut down in 1995. Passenger rail will never work without my actions because our population is too spread out after many decades of freeway and road expansions.

So, if we all just keep driving and no one uses our rail or bus service then it will be even a sadder story. I think even if we have to pay a little more or take a little more time, we should still try and help Amtrak, SMART and DDOT and not blame all the problems on them. Of course they should do more also.
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Bob_cosgrove
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Username: Bob_cosgrove

Post Number: 588
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 7:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

application/octet-streamEdgar Sugar House Milwaukee Jct looking west
Detroityes.com Edgar Sugar House 11-4-07.doc (40.4 k)


This is a photo of Milwaukee Junction looking west from the northeast with the former Edgar Sugar House warehouse in the foreground and "Sugar House Curve" in front of the curving east side of the Russell Industrial Center on Clay at Russell.

Bob Cosgrove
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Bob_cosgrove
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Username: Bob_cosgrove

Post Number: 589
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 7:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, I didn't get the Sugar House Curve photo posted - will try later.

Bob Cosgrove
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Bob_cosgrove
Member
Username: Bob_cosgrove

Post Number: 590
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 6:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 9th Michigan Railroad Histoy Conference in Owosso on Saturday, November 10th was a great success with 97 attending.

The MRJC is held only every two or three years, but keep in touch on its website www.michiganrailroadhistory.or g or on railroad rleated events on www.michiganrailroads.com

Bob Cosgrove

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