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Stinger4me
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Post Number: 156
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where were the car barns for streetcars of the DSR on the west side? I know there was a facility on Woodward in Highland Park.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1433
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stinger4me, you asked a very similar question on Sept. 1, 2007 and were rewarded with a detailed answer from Bc_n_dtown.

Do you have amnesia?
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Birwood
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Username: Birwood

Post Number: 66
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stinger4me

My Dad had 37 yrs with the DSR starting as a streecar motorman.

On the Westside, the car barns were at Lawton Terminal-Warren & Lawton, Wyoming Terminal-Wyoming & Michigan, Coolidge Terminal-Schaefer & Lyndon, Gilbert Terminal-12th & Stanley and Highland Park - 2nd & Sears
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 5021
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Could you repeat that, Birwood? Singer4me has already forgotten. However, he might still know about the one in HP.
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Goblue
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Post Number: 1079
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know about the Westside...but wasn't there a car barn on Gratiot around Harper. My dad's DPD record reported that he'd been fined two leave days for getting into a brawl with a bunch of street car drivers when he pulled into the barn area after a car that had cut him off or something...he was off duty and a bit of a young hot head in 1925.
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Jjaba
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Post Number: 6064
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goblue, no diss on your father. WTF, he's an Eastsider. Why was he combating streetcar drivers?

jjaba, Proudly Westside.
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Mikeg
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Post Number: 1434
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My great-aunt's future husband worked at the DSR Livernois Yard in 1929.

1


2
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Jimaz
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Post Number: 4425
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wait. What does that sign say? "Chew Yankee Girl"?!
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Goblue
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Post Number: 1084
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jj: The old man was a tough guy on the street...the street car driver probably flipped him the bird or something...I'm not sure I see the wisdom is taking on a whole crowd on their turf...but he was about 21...a DPD for about a year...after four years in the army cavalry. I offered to fight him once...I was sixteen and he was drunk...fortunately for me he was too drunk to come after me.
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Stinger4me
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Username: Stinger4me

Post Number: 157
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MikeG; I have something called "CRS", Can't Remember _hit. I had an opportunity this morning to speak with a fellow who worked at the Wyoming car barn. The man graduated from Cass Tech and worked there do repairs.

Stinger
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Stinger4me
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Username: Stinger4me

Post Number: 158
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goblue; Your dad must have been a good guy. The guys on DPD from back then were unique. They didn't need a college education to make them "good coppers" and "streetwise" as well.
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Birwood
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Post Number: 67
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard, actually the Highland Park Terminal was on 2nd and I think the yard extended across 2nd almost to 3rd, it been a long time since I've been there and its hard to remember

There were sets of entry and exit tracks coming in to the yard off of Woodward between Sears and Manchester. Then there was a set at 2nd and another set at 3rd. Don't forget, that 2nd and 3rd streets were oneway

GoBlue, I believe there was a car barn somewheres in the vicinity of where Livernois, Vernor and Central all come together. The last time I was up that way the rails could still be seen coming up thru the ashphalt.
Im not sure of the ones on the Eastside other than Shoemaker Ternimal, but during the 20, there were probably numerous cars barns through out the city.

Mikeg, Nice Pictures Thanks for posting them

My young brother has a set of books on the historical record of the Detroit Street and Railways, I'll ask him to look things up if anyone would be interested
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 5023
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There was quite an extended thread about this very topic already. Much of that, including the question starting this thread, should have been well known to the OP because he posted on it then...

So, I agree with Mikeg. Why continue to ask questions for answers that one already knows???
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Broken_main
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Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 1428
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For some of us it is just difficult to find the information through the search function. Instead of bitching about how many times people ask for the "same" info, just guide him into that direction or show him how to retrieve the info.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 5024
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

For some of us it is just difficult to find the information through the search function. Instead of bitching about how many times people ask for the "same" info, just guide him into that direction or show him how to retrieve the info.

DUH! Apparently some on DY would need a boy scout to help them cross a street.

The DSR thread is not even halfway down the first page of the HOF forum.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1437
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At least this new thread gave me the opportunity to post those two great photos, which I just received from my cousin when I visited her last Thursday at her home in Las Vegas.

Here are the instructions for using the search function:

1) click on "SEARCH SITE" at left
2) click on "CLICK HERE TO SHOW FORUM SEARCH ONLY".
3) in the "Search by keyword" section, type in the words "streetcar barn" (without the quotes), choose "AND (match all keywords)"
4) click on the "Perform Search" button at the bottom

The results will show at least a half-dozen relevant threads, two of which are "Hall of Fame (HoF)" threads:

HoF DSR Streetcar Memories - 1
HoF DSR Streetcar Memories - 2
Fifty years after the Motor City rode the rails!
Happy Birthday: end of the Streetcar
Where are Detroit's streetcars?
Streetcar Barns
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 6065
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We called it Manchester Yards, back in the day of the Oakman streetcar. The Oakman is also well documented on this Forum.

Get on the bus, Gus
no need to discuss much.
jjaba.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 5025
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now all that is needed is another post (or dozens) eventually to ask where to locate the search instructions that Mikeg presented...

Don't they teach Internet searching and usage back in the lower elementary school grades? They seemed to do those things in the computer labs back during the early grades (starting in the second or third grade?) when I was at Lincoln Park schools a decade ago.

Maybe, computers are harder to use now.
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Goblue
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Username: Goblue

Post Number: 1086
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stinger: Thanks...yeah, my dad was a good guy...a good and honest cop...he stressed education for me and my sister...he struggled with his own demons but possessed a ton of courage. Badge #1052...1904-1984.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 5027
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Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW, nice pix Mikeg.
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Jrvass
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Username: Jrvass

Post Number: 437
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does it also say "Rear Entrance" Cab?

OMG =8^O
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 5029
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The rear of a streetcar often serves as the front on a return trip. If there wasn't a turnabout, the streetcar would have to be driven in the other direction by changing tracks. Milwaukee's streetcars had two driver compartments for that.

When I was a kid, I might sit on the driver's seat at the rear of the car. The drivers would prefer that those sitting in the (rear) driver's seat wouldn't ring the streetcar bell, though. However, they almost never did or say anything about that when some kids might do that.
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Stinger4me
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Username: Stinger4me

Post Number: 159
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Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 7:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goblue; What assignments did your dad have at DPD?
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Goblue
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Post Number: 1089
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Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stinger: Badge #1052 was at the 15th for 20 years...the 5th for five years before that...he was a street cop...tried for rank once but his 8th grade education and lack of political connections held him back...I remember that toward the end of his time he was the uniformed driver for the four man heavily armed cruiser...and then for the last couple of years he got himself assigned to prisoner transfer from the 15th to downtown. He retired in 1951...had to stay on one extra year because he had lied about his age when he joined...he was 20 in 1924. My folks used his pension to send my sister and me to college...education was real important to them. After the DPD he drove a truck for awhile and then got a job as a plant guard at Stroh's. Both folks wanted to be buried at Olivet...across Gratiot from where the 15th used to be...right next to City Airport.
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Jjaba
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Post Number: 6071
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Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 12:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's what we called "The Big Four" over on the Westside. They drove huge Buicks around town, keeping the peace. Whenever you saw one, there was serious troubles.

jjaba, Westside Memories.
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Stinger4me
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Post Number: 160
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Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goblue; Wasn't the cemetery across Gratiot named Gethsemane? Mt. Olivet would have been across McNichols from the airport. I think when your dad worked there McNichols was still known as 6 Mile Rd. I don't think there was any shortage of ex-DPD members at the brewery.
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Goblue
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Post Number: 1092
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Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stinger: WOW...you are absolutely correct! My grandparents are buried in Mt. Olivet...the folks are in Gethsemane. Thanks for the correction...that's a little embarrassing. I think you're right about DPD at Stroh's...I think they were all retired DPD. I used to pick my dad up after his night shift...I'd wait for him in the Stroh's private tap room...the beer on tap was awesome...a couple of times he wouldn't let me drive home and took the wheel of my convertible himself.

Jj: Yup...that's the name...I couldn't come up with the name "The Big Four"...they were armed to the teeth...shotguns, machine guns...you name it! I think they were a 40's SWAT team.
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Jjaba
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Post Number: 6078
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Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They were badder than SWAT. Everybody in Detroit feared the Big 4 cars when they rolled up.
jjaba.
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Busterwmu
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Post Number: 423
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Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is a City of Detroit vehicle center at Livernois and Vernor on the southwest side which services trash trucks and other vehicles owned by the city which I believe started out at a DSR carbarn.
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Goblue
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Post Number: 1095
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Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jj: Badge #1052 was part of The Big Four out of the 15th...at his funeral a bunch of old cops came up to me to tell me about how he was one of the toughest cops twirling a baton walking a beat on the Eastside. Interestingly enough...he was a tough guy on the streets but NEVER put a hand on any of us at home. He was a real complex individual.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That DPW yard was the Baker car barn on Vernor. After it closed, the cars were parked at Wyoming. But Vernor was probably not the name of the street then.

That stretch was once called Dix at that spot during the 1800s. Also Vernor by Central and St. Gabe's, etc. was named Ferndale, about fifty years ago. The former hardware/party store at Vernor & Central that closed a year ago was named Ferndale Central Hardware (or something similar).
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Bc_n_dtown
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Username: Bc_n_dtown

Post Number: 46
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 3:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

On the Westside, the car barns were at Lawton Terminal-Warren & Lawton, Wyoming Terminal-Wyoming & Michigan, Coolidge Terminal-Schaefer & Lyndon, Gilbert Terminal-12th & Stanley and Highland Park - 2nd & Sears


Birwood, just a slight correction on those west-side carbarns listings. The Gilbert Terminal (12th and Stanley) was never a DSR streetcar barn. Actually, it was the only transit facility built by the city of Detroit that was constructed strictly for buses. As a matter of fact, it was even named in honor of Samuel T. Gilbert, a former post-WWII president of the DSR Board of Commissioners who was a strong proponent of converting the DSR into an "all-bus" operation.

As a general rule, the DSR tended to refer to its streetcar properties as "carhouses" and its bus facilities as "terminals" (although terminal was sometimes used in later years for facilities with both buses and streetcars). The fact that the Gilbert Terminal was never built for streetcars explains the rather cramped and smaller land area used for the property, compared to the much larger size land areas of the Coolidge and Shoemaker facilities, both of which at one time housed streetcars.
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Jjaba
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Post Number: 6085
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Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bcndtown, please tell us more about the lines served by the Coolidge Barn. jjaba has no recollection of streetcars that far out of town.

This would really add to jjaba's knowledge. Did this barn have anything to do with Grand River line? jjaba rode electric buses on Grand River but not streetcars out there.

jjaba.
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Living_in_the_d
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Username: Living_in_the_d

Post Number: 34
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

D.D.O.T. will now take care of all your transportation needs. And if you wish real hard , you might get a narrow guage Light-rail set-up for the dequindre cut from the River thru Eastern Market and beyond.
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Bc_n_dtown
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Post Number: 48
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Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jjaba, although the Coolidge Carhouse opened in 1928, one could probably say it arrived on the scene too late. The Coolidge property was the first facility built by the DSR to house both streetcars and buses. But since the majority of Detroit's then existing street railway operation was built prior to 1920, most of the rail lines were concentrated within the central city. Few rail lines operated north of Six Mile and west of Livernois. Although at first there were plans to maybe build new lines to the new territories that were recently annexed to the city, DSR management soon decided that it would be less costly to operate buses within those areas instead of extending or building new car lines.

When the Coolidge carhouse opened in February, 1928, only two lines were even close to the property, the Grand River and Oakman lines. Since Jjaba's Oakman line terminated at the DSR's Highland Park Woodward Carhouse, the heavy Grand River line became the only line to originally operate out of the Coolidge location. Of course, that in itself was no small feat, for at one time as many as fifty cars were needed to operate the Grand River line.

Later, the faraway Fourteenth street streetcar line (which operated out of downtown along 14th, Ferry Park, Linwood, Davison and Livernois to Six Mile) was transferred to the Coolidge Carhouse. This was somewhat strange since it required miles of deadheading via the rails of the Grand River and Oakman lines for the cars to even access that route.

Beginning in 1930, electric trolley-bus service began on the Plymouth line and operated out of Coolidge. It was suppose to be the beginning of a network of electric "trackless" trolley-bus routes to operate out of Coolidge on such west-side lines as Livernois, Coolidge (Schaefer), Puritan-Fenkell, Schoolcraft and Wyoming. However, the depression of the 1930's caused the DSR to scrap those plans and the Plymouth Electric Line was later discontinued in 1937.

Streetcar operation out of Coolidge was discontinued in 1947 after a controversial bus substitution plan for Grand River was implemented. (For those interested in more on the Gd River streetcar removal see: http://www.detroittransithisto ry.info/AroundDetroit/GrandRiv erAvenue.html) Shortly afterward, the former Coolidge carhouse was demolished and the entire property converted into a bus terminal.

Between 1951 and 1962, electric trolley-bus service operated along Grand River. The electric trolley-coaches used for Grand River operated exclusively out of the Coolidge Terminal.

I hope this helps some jjaba.
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Jjaba
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Post Number: 6095
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Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 9:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As he recalls, jjaba rode the electrics to Cass Tech., 1956-59, on Grand River. Is this not correct?

jjaba also rode the Northlawn Bus for decades. When did it start and end? It ran as a connector to the Grand River at Cunninghams on Oakman/Grand River. That green tile bldg. still stands. The Northlawn probably was housed at Coolidge Yard also.

From the Oakman Blvd., the Oakman car is well documented and it appears that jabba was quite young since service ended there early.

jjaba, Westside DSR rider.
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Goblue
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Username: Goblue

Post Number: 1110
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Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jjaba...Westside DSR rider...until he bought a 1963 Plymouth Valiant...one of only 700 ever produced.
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Jjaba
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Post Number: 6101
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Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 1:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Powder blue, two door Valiant coupe, 1964 actually.
Paid $1,955 for it.
Bought at dealer on W. Seven Mile Rd. and James Cousins Parkway.

jjaba.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 1074
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Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jjaba,

Yes, the so-called trolley buses ran on Grand River until 1961.

I have no idea of the Northlawn bus. At some point there was a Meyers-Northlawn bus, which changed the name (and possibly route) to Meyers, and service on that line ended with the most recent round of cuts in 2006.

Prof. Scott
Just off the Schaefer bus
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Bc_n_dtown
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Username: Bc_n_dtown

Post Number: 49
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes jjaba, you are correct, the Northlawn bus line also operated out of the Coolidge Terminal. The line began back in 1949 where it operated from Oakman and Grand River all the way to Southfield Road and Fenkell, but was shortened to its more familiar 1.8-mile long route in 1951, where from then on it serviced mostly residential streets. The Northlawn route operated until June of 1973——that's when the DSR combined it with the Meyers line, creating a new Meyers-Northlawn bus route. Service along the former Northlawn route continued until the Meyers-Northlawn route was discontinued by DDOT in September, 1988.


It's a coincidence that jjaba would mention the Northlawn line. I just finished a draft page for that line, soon to be posted on my Detroit Transit History web-site. It should be online within a few days. If you're interested I'll post a link to it here when its online.

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