Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman
Post Number: 49 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 5:39 pm: | |
Can someone please identify this abandoned church in Detroit? The name, location and is it still standing? Thank you.
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Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 2891 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 6:17 pm: | |
Do you have an original shot of this, larger, that you can email? I want to see the street sign if possible. Or did you download this from somewhere on the internet? |
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman
Post Number: 50 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 6:21 pm: | |
A friend sent it to me but can't remember the name, location, etc. I do not have an original copy of the photo that I can zoom into it to look at the street sign. That was the 1st thing I did but the file size was too small to do that. |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 2892 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 6:28 pm: | |
It looks Catholic, but so many of the closed Catholic churches have been sold and repurposed that I don't know where to begin. I did a calendar of Detroit churches this year, but this wasn't one of them. It sort of resembles St. Hedwig except for the Rose window and St. Hedwig is still open. |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 2894 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 6:33 pm: | |
I posted your picture over on the St. Jude site to see if anyone has an idea |
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 522 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 6:49 pm: | |
Is this the one someone posted a pic of from google-earth, off Chapin? I recall one poster mentioning the large stained-glass window was broken open, leaving one enormous hole. |
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 759 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 7:02 pm: | |
I don't remember that thread, Hp, but I looked on Google Maps and found this on the corner of Chapin and Fischer. Sure looks like the same place to me. |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 2895 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 7:04 pm: | |
I found the same thing, Bear. There's another church down the street that comes up when you google,but not this one. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4800 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 7:04 pm: | |
St. Thomas Lutheran at Fischer & Chapin You can see it on Google streetview. They moved to East Detroit - http://www.stl-eastpointe.org/history.html (Message edited by lilpup on August 01, 2008) |
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 1789 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 7:06 pm: | |
St. Hedwig has more of a square front side with center stairs. The brick is lighter too. There is no parking lot to the left of this pic. |
Evander Member Username: Evander
Post Number: 6 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 7:10 pm: | |
I agree it is St. Thomas Lutheran. My parents were married there. |
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 7952 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 7:39 pm: | |
Such a shame about Detroit's churches. There was a class at CCS where you went to a different one every week to study the architecture. Some we went to weren't open any more, but Dr. Dorothy (unfortunately passed on a few years back) could get us in. Amazing structures. Each one of them purposely built to inspire the glory of the heavens to anybody who walked inside, and they certainly accomplished it. Fort Street Presbyterian is a fantastic one to see, if you've never been inside. Beautiful woodwork everywhere. |
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 7953 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 7:41 pm: | |
One bit of trivia I learned there is that the Bonstelle Theater was once home to Detroit's oldest (jjaba may have to correct me on that) Jewish congregation. They are now at Temple Beth-El on Telegraph Road. |
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 629 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 7:51 pm: | |
Ever been in the St. Paul Episcopalian cathedral by Wayne State? My grandpa was once the dean there. Stunning interior. |
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 7956 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 8:00 pm: | |
Oh yes, of course. That place was originally meant to have a large bell tower on it. That's why it looks a little strange as compared to most Basilican style churches.The tower was to be right where the "cross" intersects. Ha! I just looked at their Web site, they make it sound like it's "still in the plans".
quote:He chose to design the Cathedral in the 14th-century English style of Gothic architecture, an early form of this style in which the features which one normally associates with Gothic architecture – soaring, pointed arches, wide expanses of stained glass, and elaborate tracery – are present, though in simplified and severe form. The massive pillars which support the roof (and eventually the central tower, should it be built) are more typical of Norman architecture, the architectural style which preceded Gothic. I don't know, it's been there since 1908. I don't think anybody would want to see some 21st century construction stuck on top of the thing! http://www.detroitcathedral.or g/history/history.htm |
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 7957 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 8:06 pm: | |
If I remember correctly, there is a small catacombs beneath that Cathedral, with a relic of St. Paul in it, amongst some other clergy remains. Creepy. Don't know if that's open to the public. |
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman
Post Number: 51 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 9:20 pm: | |
I did a search on the web for photos of St. Thomas Lutheran at Fischer & Chapin. This is the only photo I was able to find. It's small and it's black & white and it looks very similar to the photo I posted in my initial post. Do you all think these are one in the same church?
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Gannon Member Username: Gannon
Post Number: 13646 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 9:33 pm: | |
Nope. |
Deandub11 Member Username: Deandub11
Post Number: 270 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 9:40 pm: | |
Bonstelle is the former Temple Beth El, and Temple Beth El is the oldest Jewish Congregation in Detroit. Half of the Temple Beth El congregation broke off and formed Shaarey Zedek in the 1800's which is now in Southfield. Beth El moved to its current spot on Telegraph in Bloomfield Township in 1973. The architect for the building on Telegraph was Minoru Yamasaki who built the World Trade Center in NYC. www.DetroitArmy.com |
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman
Post Number: 52 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 10:02 pm: | |
It's a Jewish Temple? |
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3038 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 10:03 pm: | |
Interiors: http://www.detroitfunk.com/200 5/01/who_stole_my_window.html St.Thomas church - eastside. Congregation 1908, construction of this building 1921. The name is accompanied by the words "Euluth Kirche". |
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman
Post Number: 53 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 10:06 pm: | |
I knew if anyone would know it would be Mauser765 or MikeM if he's still around. Thanks. |
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman
Post Number: 54 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 10:11 pm: | |
So, is the church still standing and if so where is it located? |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 2896 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 10:33 pm: | |
I found this picture on Google Earth at the corner of Chapin and Fischer, and a link to this short history on St. Thomas' website: St. Thomas has had an interesting history. It all began at Chene and Pierce in Detroit. In 1879, with 24 members, a church was organized and was called St. Peter Lutheran Church. Due to the changing environment of the location and the migration of members to outlying districts, a merger was consummated with St. Thomas, Fisher and Chapin, in 1945. The new name was St. Thomas and St. Peter Lutheran Church. Another church, Bethel, was organized in 1888 on Dubois Street in Detroit. Due to its location in an old neighborhood, it also suffered losses of members moving to other locations and joining other congregations. Therefore in 1956 a merger with St. Thomas- St. Peter was agreed upon. St. Thomas on Fisher and Chapin in Detroit had its beginning in 1908 with 15 members. St. Thomas reached one of its peaks in the 1930's but like its sister congregations, saw many members move to newer locations and join other churches. A new site was purchased in East Detroit (now called Eastpointe). The new building was dedicated in the fall of 1959. For 10 years services were conducted each Sunday at both places, Fisher and Chapin in Detroit, and also in East Detroit. In 1968, services were discontinued at the Fisher location and the property was sold. The same year the name was changed from St. Thomas-St. Peter to St. Thomas Lutheran Church.
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Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3039 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 10:56 pm: | |
Theres a Mark Twain branch of the DPL on Gratiot and Burns. This church is in the neighborhood just behind the Mark Twain library. |
Leannam1989 Member Username: Leannam1989
Post Number: 27 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 2:23 am: | |
Wow. That's sad. The whole window is knocked out. It's probably exposed to all the elements. Does no one care? It also looks like it has a jungle growing out the side. |
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 632 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 2:37 pm: | |
"If I remember correctly, there is a small catacombs beneath that Cathedral, with a relic of St. Paul in it, amongst some other clergy remains. Creepy. Don't know if that's open to the public." John, my grandpa's ashes are down there. I've been down is the catacombs. It is a spooky feeling. |
Leannam1989 Member Username: Leannam1989
Post Number: 28 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 6:00 pm: | |
In that little black-and-white picture it looks like the building originally had a little round tower that is not there anymore. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4802 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 6:35 pm: | |
The small black & white photo is of St. Thomas the Apostle, a Catholic church in Ann Arbor. |
Eastsidedame Member Username: Eastsidedame
Post Number: 510 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 11:11 pm: | |
I asked this during another discussion, but no one there knew the answer, so I'll try here. Does anyone know the original name of this church and when it was built? I like it because it has a country Victorian look, like for a small town, rather than a city. It's on the corner of East Grand Blvd. & Gratiot.
Thanks..you guys are the best. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4805 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 12:12 am: | |
East Grand Blvd Methodist http://flickr.com/photos/71288 712@N00/545360588/ http://flickr.com/photos/71288 712@N00/tags/eastgrandboulevar dmethodistchurch/ |
Eastsidedame Member Username: Eastsidedame
Post Number: 512 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 12:16 am: | |
Thanks Lilpup! |
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman
Post Number: 55 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 9:16 pm: | |
The answer to the original question is as clear as mud. There are two answers and unless I'm not reading this properly these are two different churches and two different answers. These are the two answers that were given in the text above which is right? "Is it St. Thomas Lutheran at Fischer & Chapin" or Is it St.Thomas church - eastside. Congregation 1908, construction of this building 1921. The name is accompanied by the words "Euluth Kirche". Theres a Mark Twain branch of the DPL on Gratiot and Burns. This church is in the neighborhood just behind the Mark Twain library." I'm cornfused! |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 3162 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 9:26 pm: | |
I found this picture on Google Earth at the corner of Chapin and Fischer, and a link to this short history on St. Thomas' website: St. Thomas has had an interesting history. It all began at Chene and Pierce in Detroit. In 1879, with 24 members, a church was organized and was called St. Peter Lutheran Church. Due to the changing environment of the location and the migration of members to outlying districts, a merger was consummated with St. Thomas, Fisher and Chapin, in 1945. The new name was St. Thomas and St. Peter Lutheran Church. Another church, Bethel, was organized in 1888 on Dubois Street in Detroit. Due to its location in an old neighborhood, it also suffered losses of members moving to other locations and joining other congregations. Therefore in 1956 a merger with St. Thomas- St. Peter was agreed upon. St. Thomas on Fisher and Chapin in Detroit had its beginning in 1908 with 15 members. St. Thomas reached one of its peaks in the 1930's but like its sister congregations, saw many members move to newer locations and join other churches. A new site was purchased in East Detroit (now called Eastpointe). The new building was dedicated in the fall of 1959. For 10 years services were conducted each Sunday at both places, Fisher and Chapin in Detroit, and also in East Detroit. In 1968, services were discontinued at the Fisher location and the property was sold. The same year the name was changed from St. Thomas-St. Peter to St. Thomas Lutheran Church. |
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3060 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 9:28 pm: | |
It is St. Thomas Lutheran at Fischer & Chapin - Both are the same, Fischer & Chapin are behind the Mark Twain library on Gratiot. |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 3163 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 9:31 pm: | |
According to Google maps, it is still there. Google Fischer and Chapin Detroit, MI and turn on satellite view. |
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3061 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 9:34 pm: | |
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Jim Member Username: Jim
Post Number: 988 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 9:50 pm: | |
The Mark Twain branch is a great looking building with only minimal deferred maintenance. I always liked that corner lot and wonder when did society decide that public buildings should stop being exceptional, instead becoming extremely boring. |
Eastsidedame Member Username: Eastsidedame
Post Number: 520 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 10:06 pm: | |
I second that question, Jim. I'd have to say the brutalist-modernist movement was one. "Clean" lines were sometimes taken to horrendous extremes, but more often to mediocre modality...like CVS and Walgreens. They're the same all over the country. Been in one, you've been in them all, I promise. One architect, little creative overhead and functionality. I remember that many people said how GLAD they were that old City Hall was gone. A "monstrosity" it was often called, as were many Victorian-Edwardian era buildings were called. All those elaborate cornices and gargoyled exteriors were looked at as "fussy", "unnecessary" and, most of all, expensive. How short sighted....the notion of "form follows function" completely factored out the ambiance and presence of fine architecture. There's no denying that you FEEL GOOD when you pass by a massive work of true craftsmen. And...you feel bad when walking past a pile of....you know. (Message edited by eastsidedame on August 08, 2008) |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 3166 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 10:15 pm: | |
I totally agree. My daughter got married at Cranbrook a few years ago, and just sitting in those rooms with their linenfold paneling and mullioned windows was so peaceful and beautiful. It's like being in a beautiful old church as opposed to one of the modern monstrosities with the faceless Jesus statues hanging behind the altar with no cross to support it. |
Leannam1989 Member Username: Leannam1989
Post Number: 29 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 1:58 am: | |
The Old City hall looks beautiful from the pics I've seen. It seems like a lot of cities had the "out with the old and beautiful, in with the new and bland" in the 60s. It reminds me a little bit of St. Louis City Hall. You can see it on Google Streetview at S Tucker Blvd and Walnut Street St. Louis, MO |
Eastsidedame Member Username: Eastsidedame
Post Number: 527 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 2:16 am: | |
Leannam1989, I looked at that shot, and St. Louis' hall looks more rugged and heavy...almost like a castle. The Detroit hall was almost like a wedding cake..extremely ornate. If I'm looking at the right building, that is. The city-county building is almost its twin. And it looks buttery beautiful since its been sandblasted...something that the Book Tower could use desperately. Using Eco and Architecturally friendly baking soda, of course. |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 3175 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 9:40 am: | |
I'm guessing you mean the old city-county. The new one has all the charm of a an upended shoe box. Other than the Spirit, of course |
Craig Member Username: Craig
Post Number: 929 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 10:36 am: | |
These... Photos of Sts. Cyril & Methodius ...will break your heart. |
Eastsidedame Member Username: Eastsidedame
Post Number: 529 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 11:05 am: | |
Right, Jcole, yes indeed. |
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman
Post Number: 56 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 8:47 pm: | |
Thank you for the crystal clear explanation Mauser765 on the mystery of the abandoned church in question. The questions were coming from a fellow photographer from Japan that has been coming to Detroit to do some photography of the "vanishing Detroit cityscape" as he puts it. I think he might have seen this church originally on your website thus the questions. It's amazing how far afield the interest in Detroit is. |
Leannam1989 Member Username: Leannam1989
Post Number: 30 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 2:45 am: | |
I don't live in Detroit (never even been there), but I find urban plight/decay/prairies fascinating, which may be kind of morbid. I certainly don't want the decay to continue, but it fascinates me to think of all the memories a place holds and how they've been left to rot. It's not just Detroit, though. I read a lot about North St. Louis and the decay, though there is some renovation going on there. I don't live in St. Louis, but I go 3 or 4 times a year. We only go to touristy places generally: Busch Stadium, Scottrade Center, Union Station. I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to go into some of these neighborhoods by myself. I know that sounds bad, but being raised in a town of 400, being 5'2" and 110 pounds, I'd be a little nervous by myself in some areas of any city. |
Ericdetfan Member Username: Ericdetfan
Post Number: 284 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 9:44 am: | |
Ive been by that church. I installed a security system for someone who lives in that neighborhood. I remember driving by it and peering inside through the gigantic hole the missing window left. It was kind of interesting to me because I had never seen a church abandoned like that before that I can remember, but that one stuck with me. |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 3189 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 10:30 am: | |
Speaking of abandoned churches, what it the church at 17th and Rose street near the old train station?
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Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1417 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 11:46 am: | |
Building looks pretty good if services were discontinued there 40 years ago. Another church probably took over. |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 3202 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 1:13 pm: | |
Rhymes, are you talking about St. Thomas? If so, the whole side window is gone, including the frame.
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Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3077 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 2:24 pm: | |
"It's amazing how far afield the interest in Detroit is" More so than in our own country, I find. Anyway - good to hear from Mortalman again. The church near MCS still was having services recently, Im not so sure thats abandoned. |
Mortalman Member Username: Mortalman
Post Number: 59 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 11:34 am: | |
Leannam1989 have you ever seen or been inside of St. Francis de Sales Church in St. Louis. It's one of the gems in a city of gems. If you want to see photos of it let me know and I'll send you some images.
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Ltdave Member Username: Ltdave
Post Number: 211 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 12:16 pm: | |
""there is a small catacombs beneath that Cathedral, with a relic of St. Paul in it, amongst some other clergy remains. Creepy."" the kirke in Roskilde Denmark is where all of the Danish kings and queens are interned. their caskets are all in naves around the main seating area in the sanctuary. not too creepy at all. the kirche in Berlin Germany is the same way. all of the kings and queens caskets there are just lined up in the basement. its not too creepy either... |