Discuss Detroit DISCUSS DETROIT! Foreclosure paradise Previous Next
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 522
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 11:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Saw this today and thought it would be brought up in here, but not yet....want to start the ball rolling? Jane

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 90309/ap_on_bi_ge/landlord_nat ion
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Bobl
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Username: Bobl

Post Number: 618
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 12:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the article:
"Detroit now has the lowest ownership rate for single-family detached homes of the 20 largest cities in the country, according to data analyzed by longtime Detroit demographer Kurt Metzger."

A complete reversal of the past.

The absentee landlords who are buying bundles of real estate in the city will likely get burned. Do they realize that this is not Europe, and when a home is empty for any length of time in Detroit it is stripped of all plumbing and fixtures by scrappers? The City will sooner or later begin to pursue the owners for demolition costs, and attorneys will be looking at lawsuits.
Perhaps they feel that, over time, the value of the residential lots will jump.
I hope they are correct, but suspect that in most cases it won't happen in our lifetime.
My hope is that I am wrong, and a Metropolitan Detroit arises with a marked increase in demand for the residential Detroit real estate market.
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 3418
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 12:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't understand these developers buying these properties, especially Europeans. Like nobody in the Detroit area has a hundred dollars? If these were such a great investment, there are plenty of people right here that would be snapping them up.

Unless they know something we don't?

Was looking on Ebay last night, lots of Detroit houses cheap. Wait until these "investors" get the tax bill. It'll be back on Ebay. Selling our housing stock on Ebay, what a shame.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4549
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 2:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The reason that some foriegners want to buy Detroit dwellings and buildings not because it's cheap but for future occupancy when they come over to Detroit and yuppied the black ghettohoods. Also they want but those homes and buildings, gentrify it and sell it to high income familis in expensive price, causing the displacement of low-income and poor families.
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Bobl
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Username: Bobl

Post Number: 622
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 2:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Huh?
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Hamtramike
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Username: Hamtramike

Post Number: 102
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 2:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It seems as though everybody wants to take Detroit's jewels.
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Staticstate
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Username: Staticstate

Post Number: 27
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 2:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lions: all your jewels are belong to us.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 1888
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 3:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...for all you Zero Wing players out there...
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 504
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 3:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, Danny, I'm sure that Eurotrash is salivating over "taking back" Gratiot & 7 Mile to it's rightful place alongside Monaco and Gstaad...
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 950
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 4:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's going to be terrible. Right now in my neighborhood there's a rental (a beautiful owner-occupied brick two-family just two years ago) that is owned by a guy in Puerto Rico. The tenant is parking a non-working car and a F-150 on the front lawn as we speak.

Cannot get help. Police won't ticket because not on the street. Buildings and Safety have no teeth - what are they going to do with a guy in Puerto Rico? Its not like he's going to pay a fine.
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 734
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 5:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It IS illegal to park on the lawn and the cops WILL enforce it. CALL OVER AND OVER UNTIL IT'S GONE.

(Message edited by Eric C. on March 09, 2009)
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1959
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 7:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Cannot get help. Police won't ticket because not on the street. Buildings and Safety have no teeth - what are they going to do with a guy in Puerto Rico? Its not like he's going to pay a fine.


If a fine goes unpaid after a certain period of time, the City could go after any assets that they can identify for the owner. This, in theory, would include assets in Puerto Rico since it's in U.S. jurisdiction.

More likely, though, they would go after the house in question; putting it up for auction in order to satisfy the fine.

Of course, in order to make this happen we would need a Law Department that's willing to do things other than file lengthy briefs designed to keep text messages secret.
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Softailrider
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Username: Softailrider

Post Number: 287
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 8:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Basically what these investors are going to end up with are vacant lots. There will be nothing left of those houses except shells. There won't even be that if the scrappers start taking bricks again.

If any out of town buyer decides to rehab any of those places they're in for a whole load of fun.
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N7hn
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Username: N7hn

Post Number: 183
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 10:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kidna like that seminar here is cali. People outside of detroit think they are on some inside deal to the cheap home of the century, They dont see that its just the common price of the Detroit homes. Nice idea to invest and flip for a profit....but who to sell too is the problem. I dont know of any other city w the vacancy rate of detroit and add to that the demolition by neglect. Back to Business class investors, Supply VS Demand......... no demand in detroit.
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El_gato
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Username: El_gato

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 3:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello. New to this forum but I've been reading along for a couple of months now. I guess what brought me here was that both of my parents grew up in Detroit and I was curious about Delray. (my mother's side is Hungarian) I grew up in Ann Arbor. I am a midwesterner at heart, currently reside in CA....but never felt at home here. Anyway, today I read in the local paper about all the Detroit real estate that's being bought up by 'outsiders'. I was surprised, but not really, given what I've read here via the forums re the neighborhoods, the prices and viewing whats offered......and the home values are shockingly low-at least in comparison to CA. I was feeling that a well kept secret was now disclosed (Detroit) and somehow also exploited-if thats the right word. Are all these buyers just coming in to make money and leave as some of you suggest? Crime seems to be a very critical given in Detroit .... I've read it on and on here. I look at the old neighborhoods, the buildings, read the stories, and it sounds sad. Could this be the beginning of a rebirth for Detroit?
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Leannam1989
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Username: Leannam1989

Post Number: 214
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 3:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can see the attraction is foreigners or out-of-staters find in these cheap properties, but I doubt these properties will gain value any time soon.
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Ocean2026
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Username: Ocean2026

Post Number: 138
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 7:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They want to buy until they see their $1000 house has a $7000 a year tax bill.
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 505
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 7:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The buyers will mostly lose money.

Who cares if a house is $1 if it has a $5,000 tax bill, $10,000 in liens and needs $30,000 to bring it up to code?

Oh, and good luck finding a creditworthy tenant willing to live in an urban prairie off Van Dyke.

You can rent an entire house in a middle class suburb for $700/month. What would entice people with options to live in a crumbling Detroit neighborhood?
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Softailrider
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Username: Softailrider

Post Number: 290
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 8:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bingo....that's why the real estate rental business in the city is dead. Taxes are high, insurance is very expensive, housing stock is old. The only type of tennants you can attract are the ones who pay the first months rent and security, then play the system for the next few months untill they get thrown out.

If you try and screen your applicants the way you should you wouldn't end up renting to anyone.
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 327
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 9:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The reason people are willing to invest in Detroit real estate is cash flow, return on investment and exchange rate. At one point, the one Euro was worth $1.50. I think it is around $1.30 now. The home for 10 grand in Detroit only costs them 7 grand because of the exchange rate. If they charge $700 a month then it will only take them 10 months to break even. After that it is pure cash. Home owner insurance isn't required because they paid cash. They will accumulate the cash in an account. When the exchange rate swings the other way 1 US dollar to 1 Euro, they already made 30 to 50% on their initial investment of $7 grand because they get 10 grand in Euro. Plus any cash they made from the rent. The real question is whether they will pay the property tax or just walk away from the houses! Leaving Detroit in worse shape so another journalist can write a BRILLIANT and ORIGINAL article about the decline of Detroit and ponder why.
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 507
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 11:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bibs, I don't understand your post.

The exchange rate is not particularly favorible for Europeans right now, and I'm not getting your calculations. The fact that the Euro and Dollar do not have equal valuation does not mean that they are "saving" the relative difference in valuation.

And they can't charge $700. That's the going rate in middle class suburbs. You can't charge that on 6 Mile/Van Dyke. I would be surprised if you could find a creditworthy tenant at any price.
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El_gato
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Username: El_gato

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 2:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds bleak and only money making-no real interest in the community itself or potential. Why are the taxes so high for Detroit if everything appears to be going to Hell?
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Kensingtony
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Username: Kensingtony

Post Number: 61
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 3:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The tax rate is so high because the city has to squeeze all the nickles it can out of the remaining citizens so it can prop up its bureaucracy.Fewer people have to pay more per person.
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 741
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 3:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Softailrider
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Username: Softailrider

Post Number: 290
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 8:59 pm:

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
Bingo....that's why the real estate rental business in the city is dead. Taxes are high, insurance is very expensive, housing stock is old. The only type of tennants you can attract are the ones who pay the first months rent and security, then play the system for the next few months untill they get thrown out.

If you try and screen your applicants the way you should you wouldn't end up renting to anyone.

------------------------------ --------------------

Not everywhere, Softrail:

http://atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/65504/159499.html?123661 5074

Floor one took 28 days to lease last April and I had three competing applicants.

Floor two just leased this week after five months and frankly, had I offered the unit now versus at the beginning of winter, I'm certain it would have been on the market for less than a month. That's not even considering the rat-ass economy. Though leased over the weekend, I actually got two inquiries between yesterday and today.

Point is, Detroit is and will be for all of our lifetimes, block by block and neighborhood by neighborhood. There are exceptionally good and exceptionally bad areas.

Make no mistake however, money is made in Detroit everyday.
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Softailrider
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Username: Softailrider

Post Number: 292
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 8:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric_c.....
I was talking about run of the mill housing stock. That isn't your average rental house at all. That place looks closer to the Taj Mahal then your usual Detroit rental. Owners don't generally live across the street either, a lot easier to keep your finger on the pulse of things from a few yards away.

Congrats on that beautiful 2 family, looks like a gem.
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 952
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 9:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This ad is in the Windsor Star today, and it is one of several ads promoting cheap Detroit foreclosures:

Price USD $26,000
BR/BA 5 BR
Property Type Foreclosures
Location Detroit, MI
Source anonymous user on Windsor Star, 6 days ago
I have a 13 home package available

These are not listed.
(1) 2 Bedroom Alumminum, 8 & Kelly

(1) 2 Bedroom Aluminum, 8 & Hoover

(1) 2 Bedroom Brick, 6 & Lahser

(1) 3 Bedroom Frame, Greenfield & Tireman

(1) 3 Bedroom? Frame, Fenkell & Telegraph

(1) 4 Bedroom Aluminum, Chicago & Lodge

(1) 5 Bedroom Vinyl, Warren & E. Grand

(1) 2 Family, Frame, 2 Bedroom units, Mack & Cadillac

(1) 3 bedroom Brick, Chicago & Woodward

(1) 3 Bedroom Brick, 8 & Kelly

(1) 3 bedroom Brick, Whittier & 94

(1) 3 bedroom Brick, 6 & Gratiot

(1) 3 bedroom Brick, 7 & Hoover

All sold on quit Claim Deeds.

Must Close immediately.

Cash Only.

Price does not include back taxes or water which can be paid later.

Approximate average price is $4,500 per property INCLUDING tax and water owed."

So, here's a clear example of flipping and international speculation that is ruinious to neighborhoods.
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Peterhuntprincess
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Username: Peterhuntprincess

Post Number: 58
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 7:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its called SECTION 8 people... Believe it or not the government is paying anywhere from $700 to $1250 per month to landlords willing to rent to families utilizing this program. So if you buy a home for $2000, fix it up with used materials for another $2000, and rent it for $1100 a month (yes, check the real estate section), you will turn profit in less than a year, even after taxes. I see homes in the freep all the time at outrageous rates, some of which are nice homes, others are not the best. But I can guarantee there are some folks who would rather live in Detroit than the suburbs. Some folks love living where "everybody knows their name", nobody cares how ofen they mow the lawn, and the nearest bus stop is only two blocks away. Its not that bad to the people who have grown up in places like this. And when you get a house so cheap, and make soooo much money, you don't really care if a few walls and windows are in need of repair after the tenant moves. These people know that if they destroy homes they will loose their "free" rent. And the land lords are always sure to raise the rent to the maximum allowed before the lease gets signed. I'm not sure if these folks from around the world are planning to actually help rebuild neighborhoods, but I hope they do something. I see beautiful, half empty neighborhoods full of promise just waiting for revival.

If only it was possible for neighboring home owners to get first priority at these homes, and be given the opportunity to take them for a nominal fee and either tear them down to extend their own property lines, or put them into use. I would rather live on a block half empty with fenced in, well manicured praries than a block dominated by kicked in doors and boarded windows.
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Softailrider
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Username: Softailrider

Post Number: 311
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 9:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Think you'll make "sooooo" much money on rental houses in the city of Detroit? With all due respect, you're dreaming. Buy a few and try it for yourself, sounds great on paper, but, reality will bite real quick.

I've had dozens of rentals in the city, you would have to pay me to handle another one. Even then I might say no.
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Ocean2026
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Username: Ocean2026

Post Number: 206
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 9:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those of you who check ebay -everyone wants a bargain. In the same vein as DETROIT there are those buying land unseen in West Texas. Its barren land - with no town for miles and miles. Still they see the price of $100 per acre and they buy. One day they either go look at the land or stop making the payments. Then the seller forecloses and puts it back on the market.

Many of you are ascribing all sorts of plans behind these purchases but many think the same as the $100 lot buyers.

"IT JUST HAS TO BE WORTH MUCH MORE"

They will find out...
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 539
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 10:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Peterhuntprincess, there's currently a nationwide freeze on new Section 8 vouchers, so new Detroit landlords have little chance of the Section 8 racket.
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Blueidone
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Username: Blueidone

Post Number: 530
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 11:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Crawford: However isn't it true that if someone has a voucher they can take it anywhere as long as the building is approved by the housing agency?
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 540
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 11:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, existing vouchers are ok, but they aren't expanding the program, and everyone's buying 20 homes with the expectation that they can fill with Sec. 8. Isn't going to happen.

Another problem is that the suburban market is also in the dumps, so the Sec. 8 crowd now has options in the burbs. You have too many landlords metro-wide competing for too few Sec. 8 holders.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 1696
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 1:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of the main reasons that there are so many vacant homes and eventually vacant lots in Detroit is because you have more single-family homes than traditional rental property like apartments. In Detroit every owner of a house can become a landlord.

If the landlord is a slumlord and he/she owns 20 homes, then you're more likely to end up with several vacant properties than if you had one landlord/slumlord who owned one apartment building with 20 units that he/she allows to become dilapidated. If the landlord's property has to be torn down, then in Detroit you end up with 20 vacant lots. In New York City you end up with one vacant lot.

I believe that, if it is legal, Detroit should create zones/neighborhoods where renting out houses is allowed but in other areas houses must be sold if you no longer want to own them. This way you put a cap on how many properties can becme rental units, and as a result, more houses in the city are owner-occupied instead of renter-occupied, which usually makes for more stable neighborhoods and a maintained housing stock.
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Rid0617
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Username: Rid0617

Post Number: 422
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 29, 2009 - 3:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"They want to buy until they see their $1000 house has a $7000 a year tax bill."

As bad as I want to come back to Detroit the outrageous taxes are what slowed us down. All the negative things we had accepted or had work around ideas. Taxes were another story. We still have hope but for now I am as one poster put it an honorary Detroit citizen via the forum.
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Terryh
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Username: Terryh

Post Number: 1156
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Me and MINE! My profit youre misery and despair YOURE problem! My money is mine and ME ME ME ME...PROFIT FIRST AFFORDABLE HOMES AND HUMAN DIGNITY SECOND...
pull youreself up by youre bootstraps and work youreself into oblivion by working two jobs or more...
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Ocean2026
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Username: Ocean2026

Post Number: 208
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 7:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rid I agree and have posted that Detroit if they want to attract investment should adopt an equitable taxing system based on market value - the same way they do in Texas. Opponents say that will decrease revenues- at least at the outset, however I doubt many want that $1000 house with the $7000 tax bill - so it will stay vacant and be foreclosed.
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Mwilbert
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Username: Mwilbert

Post Number: 516
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 8:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The property tax system in Michigan is reasonably equitable, but obviously there are some problems in figuring out the correct valuations. As I understand Ocean2026's description of the system in Texas, they have a method for deciding the values--but those values are not consistent or equitable, because sales prices aren't consistent or equitable. Maybe that is less of a problem than the problem with the Michigan approach; I don't know.

In my opinion, the real problem with Detroit property taxes is that they are too high overall, not with how they are distributed over the various properties, and that can't be solved by a different assessment approach, as revenue has to come from somewhere.
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Softailrider
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Username: Softailrider

Post Number: 312
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 9:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm seeing the same problem with some suburban properties on a larger scale. Houses up for sale in the 350,000.00 range with 20000.00 plus tax bills which are jacked up because of fraudulent sales. Nobodys falling all over themselves to buy those either.
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401don
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Username: 401don

Post Number: 968
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 9:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good feature on foreclosures in the U.S., particularly Detroit, on the CBC National News tonight. It runs again on "The National" at 10:00 pm. Probably also on CBC.ca
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Ocean2026
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Username: Ocean2026

Post Number: 209
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 10:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mwilbert _market value is defined as the price a willing buyer and willing seller come up with at an arms length transaction--that is the real value and that is the fair method of taxation.

Detroit has thousands fo buildings that are vacant and thousands of lots- many of these are foreclosures. If we want to get them all on the tax roll we have to make the tax approximate the value or buyers won't buy. Some revenue per house will go down but many more houses will be added.

My case is typical of investors - i see a building -think the price is fair and then freak out about the valuation and tax.

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