Discuss Detroit DISCUSS DETROIT! Wikipedia hates Wayne State Previous Next
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Blessyouboys
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Username: Blessyouboys

Post Number: 387
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 10:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone else care that in the first sentence of Wayne's Wikipedia page the school is listed prominently as a "4th Tier University"? I have attempted in the past to change this yet I am continually, for some inane reason, shot down.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W ayne_State_University

I am a Wayne State graduate so I am likely somewhat biased here, yet I will say that I have done a lot of national recruiting for my job and if I am ever unfamiliar with a school I often reference the Wiki page for the quality of the candidate. Is something like this helpful? (For school, city, state, you the WSU graduate)

No other schools in the state of Michigan (I didn't bother looking at Ferris) are arranged like WSU's page and it all seems rather inappropriate. I always felt that a school like Wayne was miles above say, a Central, what gives?
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Andyguard73
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Username: Andyguard73

Post Number: 304
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 11:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I always felt that a school like Wayne was miles above say, a Central



Eff you too! :-) Fire Up Chips!
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Downtown_lady
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Username: Downtown_lady

Post Number: 609
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 11:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tier 4 is the ranking given to WSU by U.S. News & World Report in their 2009 Best Colleges list.

http://colleges.usnews.ranking sandreviews.com/college/nation al-search/c_final_tier+4/page+ 3

http://www.usnews.com/articles /education/worlds-best-college s/2008/11/20/about-the-worlds- best-colleges-rankings.html?Pa geNr=1
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Zimm
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Username: Zimm

Post Number: 118
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 11:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the list of comparables in the ranking Downtown Lady linked seem very appropriate to me.

WSU is by no means a prestigious school-4th tier seems an apt description. FWIW, the only Michigan residents i have ever know to prefer WSU to CMU were Wayne County residents. outside of the county, it is not the kind of school that prospective students I've known have aspired to.

decent school. not the kind of thing you draw attention to on your resume.
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Atwater
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Username: Atwater

Post Number: 402
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 11:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know that Wayne State's law school is a Tier 4 school, and I know people who take those rankings very seriously.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4260
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 11:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you're concerned that the page is not consistent in content, tone, and focus with other university wiki pages, you've got a legitimate concern, though, one you should probably take up with the appropriate parties on wiki.

However, if you're simply mad because you're personally involved with this particular wiki page (i.e. you being a WSU graduate and all), well, that's a whole other issue.
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 508
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 11:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne is much better than Central (IMO, of course). I am in NYC, and most people know Wayne.

Wayne is a major national research university, one of only three in MI.
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Evelyn
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Username: Evelyn

Post Number: 335
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 11:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've often wondered if someone who dislikes Wayne State wrote parts of Wiki's article about the school.

Before Wikipedia locked down its editing, I made a number of changes to the history section, which was condescending and inaccurate. Consider this sentence, which is still in the article: "WSU has been aggressive in constructing new green glass buildings."

No mention of Monteith or the Detroit Artist's Market. There's a paragraph about several extremely short-lived WSU student publications, but only a sentence about the South End and WDET-FM.

I could go on and on, but you get the point.
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Cooper
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Username: Cooper

Post Number: 58
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The great thing about Wikipedia is that if you disagree with something, you can change it, instantly and anonymously. (I suppose that's also the problem.)
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Cooper
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Username: Cooper

Post Number: 59
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Before Wikipedia locked down its editing



Anyone can still edit any article without logging in. Only a handful of the most abused articles (like Obama's) are restricted.
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Evelyn
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Username: Evelyn

Post Number: 336
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oops, you're right. Clamping down on edits was just something the folks who run Wikipedia were thinking about.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/ 2009/01/23/wikipedia-may-restr ict-publics-ability-to-change- entries/
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Ray
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Username: Ray

Post Number: 586
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne State has a very good medical school and a law school. It is most certainly not a fourth tier institution, whatever the pundits say.

I wish they'd change the name. I think "Wayne State" just doesn't convey the right image.
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 681
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 1:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My primary care MD went to Med School at WSU; and I'm here in Houston. "You're hired, Doc." I knew he would be good.

WSU was a hard school, a good school...it was no community college, for sure. I got a Mass Comm. degree and I worked my butt off PLUS a job. I could only imagine the same could be said for Doc.

Ray: What would you call the school instead? (No naming it after crazy people, uh-K? We've already got "Mad" Anthony.)
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1kielsondrive
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Username: 1kielsondrive

Post Number: 991
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 1:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't give a damn what anyone says about Wayne State, it is NOT a fourth tier school. It's an excellent urban university with a fine medical school, law school and great research facilities and reputation. Someone has an axe to grind! The law school may not be in the same class as, say UoM, it's not because it's not as good, it's because each school has a different larger focus. I know and have known many graduates of each. UoM's law school trains constitutional and legal scholars and business lawyers, as a rule of thumb. I've recently been working with a soon to be grad of UoM, who's entering the field of microbiology and law. He'll never see a courtroom. His research, writing, and opinions will. Not to say that UoM doesn't do anything else. WSU's law school produces many lawyers that practice criminal and business law. Again, I'm not saying they don't overlap. Their focus and specialties are different. DCL was an everyday workingman's law school, producing many fine lawyers. DCL appealed to established students, retired cops, teachers and parents, who worked full time, were raising a family and desired to practice law or tie the law into their existing career. Comparing WSU and CMU is ridiculous. They each have strong points and each appeals to a different type of student. Go CHIPS! Go TARTARS!
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1kielsondrive
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Username: 1kielsondrive

Post Number: 992
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 1:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And who gives a s*^t what wikipedia says anyway. It's not gospel. Wikipedia is like most everything else on the internet: relatively accurate, most of the time. I practice triangulation (my term). Research in multiple places and the truth is revealed to you in bits and pieces, it comes together eventually. Books are the same. If I read something I like and it seems accurate and factual, I read more to find out if there's common ground, beliefs and facts. Truth and facts are seldom revealed quickly and easily, certainly not on a single entry at a website.
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Keith_rylatt
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Username: Keith_rylatt

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 4:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne State University got very positive exposure on UK BBC national TV last night in connection with pioneering crash test experiments. From this side of the Atlantic, I'd say 1st Tier!
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Eastsideal
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Username: Eastsideal

Post Number: 402
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 5:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you don't like the Wiki article -- change it!
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 2036
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 6:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One thing that is Tier 4 is the mascot, W the Warrior.

Although I heard that they are seriously looking into getting rid of him/it.
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Marshall
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Username: Marshall

Post Number: 42
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 7:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I did my grad work at Wayne and I thought I received a quality education. Wayne's emphasis in may cases is on the practical side. When I teach my MBA classes I try to make them practical as possible for those who will USE the information in real life. This is what I always liked about WSU.
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Baselinepunk
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Username: Baselinepunk

Post Number: 138
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 8:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"and if I am ever unfamiliar with a school I often reference the Wiki page for the quality of the candidate. Is something like this helpful?"

Good gravy no. Wikipedia sucks and is far from reliable.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4403
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 9:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also believe that the undergrad institution is far from being four tier. While I think an anti-Detroit bias holds it back, increasing donations and raising low-end admissions status could get it out of fourth tier in short order. I don't think they're interested in that because they prioritize delivery of an education to SE Michigan over national reputation. I think you can have both, though, and a strong national reputation would help SE Michigan and the people that receive a Wayne degree...and could improve geographic diversity by bringing people from other states.

Anyways...rankings often aren't put so prominently on a wikipedia page. Just edit it to bump it down.
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Jtw
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Username: Jtw

Post Number: 177
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 9:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had 4 years of undergraduate at UM-Ann Arbor (engineering), and 3 years of post-bac/undergrad at Wayne State. I really like WSU but I can't really disagree with the assessment of 4th tier - they're not even comparable.

Wikipedia is useful as a quick reference on most topics. Political and cultural topics, not so much.
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Kryptonite
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Username: Kryptonite

Post Number: 99
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 9:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The rankings are not given to WSU by Wikipedia, the rankings are simply documented. The WSU Wikipedia article is very positive about Wayne and it's colleges and affiliates. I wouldn't concern myself with the rankings since you would have to take that up with the entities doing the rating. Read the "Academic Profile" section in Wikipedia and you will see that the WSU article is anything but derogatory, on the contrary it's an excellent appraisal. It bascially reports what we all know, that Wayne is a great MI institution.
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Texorama
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Username: Texorama

Post Number: 368
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 9:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne's programs in literature and theater are well regarded. Probably the way to go about editing the article is not to try to delete the 4th-tier term, which can be documented, but to add other positive material.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 3776
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 9:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I know that Wayne State's law school is a Tier 4 school, and I know people who take those rankings very seriously."

Correction. Wayne State's law school is a Tier 3 school according to US News.

The school dropped to Tier 4 status for one year a couple years ago after the former (emphasis on former) Dean of Career Services failed to complete an employment data survey for the school's 2005 graduating class, which caused erroneous employment data to be turned in to US News.

The problem was corrected the following year and the law school has been back in US News' Tier 3 for a couple of years now.
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Locke09
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Username: Locke09

Post Number: 62
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 10:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Based on U.S. News' ranking methodology, urban public universities like WSU that try to make higher education available to as many as possible, will always rank low.

1. Peer Assessment is a whopping 25% (what other educators who may know little about the school think about it)

2. Retention of students is 20%. Many students attending schools like WSU are also working full-time or close to full-time and may not have time or resources to stay in school. They might stop for a while and return, or attend less than full time, taking longer to finish.

3. Faculty resources is 20% and includes class size, salaries, # of professors with PHDs, student/faculty ratio, and proportion of faculty that is full-time.

4. Selectivity is 15%. What is the avg. ACT/SAT score and GPA of entering freshmen? Of course an urban school like WSU will score lower here as it tries to be more inclusive.

5. Financial resources is 10%

6. Graduation rate is 5%.

7. Alumni Giving is 5%.

I would be more interested in the percentage of graduating students who find jobs after graduation (and their accompanying salaries) than any of these other factors. Then factor in how much they paid for their education vs the return in salary and earnings. Stuff like that.

That being said, I graduated from WSU. I have no inferiority complex about it (didn't even know I was supposed to). I climbed the ladder in my career very quickly and my earnings are - quite satisfactory even under these present economic conditions :-)
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 685
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 10:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alumni Giving is 5%? That's pretty low. Why, I wonder? Compare that, to UofM, for example.
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Sumas
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Username: Sumas

Post Number: 796
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 10:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I received a fantastic education from Monteith College, WSU. The university dropped credit ability eliminating this college under Gullen.
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Hudkina
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Username: Hudkina

Post Number: 339
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 11:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastsidedame, 5% is the weight given to "Alumni Giving" when ranking the school.

BTW, I think they should change the name to Anthony Wayne University, or just plain Wayne University.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 3639
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 11:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about Mad Anthony U? :-)
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Mrsjdaniels
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Username: Mrsjdaniels

Post Number: 1337
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 11:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WSU is a PACE research institution...period. no getting around that

alum & former emp
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Courtney
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Username: Courtney

Post Number: 91
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 11:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always have been amazed that people place such a value on something like the US News rankings. There are so many variables in the "peer assessment" category alone that can dramatically change the rankings.

I went to Loyola University New Orleans for awhile and while they were apparently "#5" in the South according to US News, the quality of education I received there was far from what I received at WSU. Granted, LNO wasn't #5 a little over a decade ago when I was there but things there have not seemed to change for the better and a couple of years ago the faculty of the College of Arts and Sciences gave a no confidence vote to the president after he fired some of the better professors there.

It's really not worth getting worked up over rankings or a page that can be anonymously changed by anyone with an internet connection.
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Cdwaters
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Username: Cdwaters

Post Number: 190
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WSU may be a 4th tier school, but wikipedia is a 4th tier research tool.

WSU alum
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Blessyouboys
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Username: Blessyouboys

Post Number: 388
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The first paragraph has since changed from when this was originally posted. Good news.

We'll see if this edit will last, as that was my principal issue -- I would move the "4th Tier" piece from the first sentence believing it to be out of place only to have reappear front and center shortly thereafter.

I am surprised with all of the Wiki-bashing in this thread; do you honestly believe I would get a more objective view from a university's website? Not likely...
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 2264
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I two am a WSU skewl alum. I licked it verry mush. I think et shold b considered Furst teer.

For crying out loud, stop worrying what others think. This is exactly the sort of mentality that gives us a inferiority complex.

Of course people in Wayne County like WSU better than someone from Ogemaw. We have ownership in it. People in Ogemaw like Kirtland CC better than Henry Ford CC or WC3, I don't see that as a problem. They should be proud of their school, its not like people hate WSU (well maybe the DMC does, but thats something different).
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1308
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The more important thing is getting people educated with more than an HS diploma. Clearly people are getting good jobs for graduating from WSU, so that should end all discussion right there.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1535
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 12:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe these "tier ratings" might mean something, and I say "might", at the undergrad level, but I would never consider Wayne's law or medical schools "4th tier", not by a long shot.

The med school has produced some very fine physicians ( including one son and one daughter in law, ) and although I did not attend their law school, I know they usually have a good percentage of their grads who pass the Bar exam on the first try and manage to land jobs, too.
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Mrnittany
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Username: Mrnittany

Post Number: 53
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 9:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Locke ..... I absolutely agree w/ your previous post that "tuition paid vs. salary earned 5-10 years post-graduation" should definitely be a metric in these rankings. I wrote to USNWR saying that a few years ago ... unfortunately no response.

College is a great experience in terms of personal growth, but it's also an investment. And just as we do with mutual funds and such, we should partially judge schools based upon the average/aggregate ROI seen by their students.

I despise how USNWR ratings tend to "penalize" schools like WSU with an institutional emphasis on making a (relatively inexpensive) higher education more widely available. WSU should have and does have a different "mission" than U-M, MSU, CMU, etcetera (who are all different than each other in their own right) ... and Michigan's a better place for that. Dumb USNWR ratings aside.
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Jackgnikc
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Username: Jackgnikc

Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 5:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm a Wayne undergrad now a Wayne med student. I've been all over the country, and my uncle and brother work for government health organizations, and believe me when I tell you that people know who we are. My brother was recently at a board meeting at the Mayo Clinic and they were raving about the residents from our SOM.

We don't have a lot of money and we sure as hell don't get the respect we deserve, but you get a fantastic education. Rankings are based on prejudices masquerading as objectivity, they have no basis in the real world. 4th tier? if they sat in my classrooms and learned from some of the brilliant people who have taught me, that might not be the case. But they can't do that, so the next best thing is ranking based on what the Dean of Harvard thinks. And it's not only the education. The research that goes on in this school is astounding, but you never hear about it. I was taught about certain hormones from the very people who first discovered them. I was taught about the circulatory system from the man who wrote the book on it. I learned about AIDS research and drugs from the woman who synthesized them. My sister is a UM med student, and so I've been able to compare over the past couple years. There is not a single thing Wayne is lacking when it comes to quality of education.

And finally, the whole CMU thing... look, I don't mean to be rude. CMU is a good school and I'm sure their students get good educations, I would never deny that. But CMU is not even in the same league.

Here's the list of WSU people. Scroll down to faculty, you'll find a nice (although incomplete) list of the caliber of teachers here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L ist_of_Wayne_State_University_ people

(Message edited by Jackgnikc on March 12, 2009)
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Eastsideirish
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Username: Eastsideirish

Post Number: 16
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 - 7:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree...4th tier.

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