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Archive through March 18, 2009Detroitchef30103-18-094:54pm
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Doma
Member
Username: Doma

Post Number: 25
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 8:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a break from the monotony of negativity and close mindedness I find here often.....

I really don't like the spotlight, but I felt compelled to share my beliefs with the board.

This post wasn't designed to be about me, it was made to inspire everybody else. I'm not here self promoting, looking for compliments, trying to make myself the center of attention, etc.

Perhaps we need to adapt a different perspective, collectively as a region. There obviously is room for improvement.

It appears that some of you actually took the time to intricately dissect and insult my good natured post line by line. It doesn't surprise me that the longest response to a very positive post was flat negative. You even managed to pepper your response with lots of insulting banter, awesome!
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Benfield
Member
Username: Benfield

Post Number: 158
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 9:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

This post wasn't designed to be about me...



A post about your life and experiences that uses the word "I" 19 times wasn't designed to be about you? Really?

It's one thing to be pretentious but it's quite another to insult our intelligence.

Look I'm sure they'll love you at the Amway conferences or whatever but you should probably just accept that most people know there isn't a difference between a triangulated marketing strategy and a pyramid scheme.
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Mind_field
Member
Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 495
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 9:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found this thread's originator to be condescending and arrogant and borderline insulting. I can glean some very good common sense info from the original post by Doma, while leaving all the arrogant elitism behind.

Doma, there was nothing unusual or extraordinary about your circumstances, so far as i can ascertain from your posts. Many more people face much greater challenges than you every single day. Perhaps if you had grown up in a completely different environment that was much more challenging, your so called success would be more of an inspiration.
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Cycledetroit
Member
Username: Cycledetroit

Post Number: 84
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 10:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am sure if his story was...
"i grew up in the projects, I had nothing, my parents were drunks, and I dropped out of High School, went to jail, got out, and now I live a happy life , i am doing well, I learned a lot, i love detroit, ect... "

People on this forum would still find something negative to say about him. Why can't we ever just be happy to finally read something positive??? Does it make you guys feel better to rip apart each post and over analyze everything? You don't know him, neither do I, so how you can comment on his family life?
Just because someone was raised outside of detroit proper does not mean they have advantages over other people.
There are plenty of low income families with very little to offer their children who are raising amazing citizens for our next generation, and there are plenty of middle class families who offer their children everything and the kids end up going no where.

Doma, I loved your post. I think that people have a hard time seeing others do well, and they want to pull us down with them. Pull as hard as you like, we arn't going anywhere.
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Thames
Member
Username: Thames

Post Number: 427
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 10:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It wasn't a negative post, to be sure.

I guess it all boils down to, what is the definition of positive.

Let's see:

It was a post by Doma, about Doma, extolling the virtues of Doma. From that standpoint, I would agree, it was very positive.
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Lowell
Moderator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2255
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 1:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I swear, some people are like vampires. They just can't stand the light. The brighter it is the madder it makes them. It absolutely kills them.

And now it's all about Doma?? LOL. Quite the opposite. It is all about them. His post has exposed their insecurities and they are are going ballistic on him for bringing them out. So it's shoot the messenger time.

Say anything positive Doma, especially about Detroit, and you will need to learn how to duck because the mud will fly. Grow a thick skin; you'll get used to it.
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Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine

Post Number: 3152
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 6:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, yeah, that's true, as was much of what Doma wrote, but Doma had to screw it up by asserting the absolutely ridiculous claim that the post was not supposed to be about Doma.
As a result, to me, the entire post now smells like a dumpster full of used Huggies roasting in the August heat.
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Benfield
Member
Username: Benfield

Post Number: 159
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 6:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

His post has exposed their insecurities and they are are going ballistic on him for bringing them out.



Insecurity is a good word because the reality of life in Detroit is insecure. We are leading the nation in unemployment and that number is only going to get worse, regardless if the Big Three are "saved" or not. Losing a job right now probably means that you'll have to move to get a new one. Looking at the macro-issues, it's hard to see a way metro Detroit rebounds quickly. Everyone won't all become entrepreneurs. That's the kind of fantasy that leads people like Bill Maher to suggest we aren't a serious people. The world needs ditch diggers and worker bees. And there aren't that many successful business opportunities in the world. There's a reason most small businesses fail and it isn't because of weak "CONSTITUTIONS".

Homes in metro Detroit are basically worthless right now because of oversupply. Trying to sell a house is basically a crapshoot even at a significantly reduced price. I would again point out that is in no small part the fault of people "in real estate" in Macomb County. David Pulte deserves to be kicked in the groin.

My 78-year-old diabetic widower father still lives in the house I grew up in. It's in St. Clair Shores and it's too much house for him right now. He'd love to sell it but there are no buyers right now. There are always a couple foreclosed homes selling for pennies on the dollar within a few blocks. And hey that's super for the out-of-state investor looking to do a deal but for a senior citizen who played by the rules, there is no silver lining to the present real estate market.

My brother and I spend our weekends helping with basic home maintenance projects. My dad was a guy who faithfully paid off his fixed-rate mortgage every month for 30 years. He always talked about one day he was going to sell it to pay for a comfortable retirement for both himself and my mom. But she got cancer six years ago and he's stuck with an anchor of a house shackled to his neck. At times, the situation has reduced my dad to tears.

Lowell, would you suggest my father take Duma's advice? Does he need to understand that competition is making him stronger? What is he competing against, by the way?

Maybe he should develop a thicker skin? Or perhaps he should stay positive because in 5-15 years southeast Michigan might rebound economically. Might being the operative word here.

Richard Florida wasn't kidding when he said the rust belt might not survive this downtown. Detroit is the poster child for that reality. It is entirely plausible that when this thing shakes out southeast Michigan will look like Flint.

So if you want to call me insecure, feel free, I'm secure enough in my insecurity about this region's future that it doesn't both me. What does bother me is attempts to wipe away the real large-scale problems metro Detroit is facing with some platitudes about positivity. I require no lectures from a 27-year-old about hard work and personal responsibility.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4308
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 7:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Benfield FTW.

I think asking everyone to get beyond the utter self-indulgent nature of the original post is asking a bit too much. It's an inconvenient truth for some, but how you say things is as important as what you say, if at times, in fact, not even more important. To get pissy and chiding folks for people more than appropriately responding such vapidity shows some major insecurity. It's irrational overprotectiveness and other forms of overcompensation to appropriate responses wrapped all in one.

Some would have you think that others in this thread have shit on some kids dream. That's not even the case, and its the stinkiest of red herrings. To imply that we're the insulting ones is a special kind of hubris and gall.
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Cycledetroit
Member
Username: Cycledetroit

Post Number: 85
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 9:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Domas story wasn't only about him, he was telling the story of many of his peers.
big baby jesus - "You and I are on the same trip. I'm going on 26, and have the exact same outlook on this whole mess. In fact, it sound like we're are on a parallel paths."
It sounds like my story
It sounds very similar to many young detroiters stories.
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Sirrealone
Member
Username: Sirrealone

Post Number: 276
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 10:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I applaud Domas for posting this. Yes, it's true that his background may have given him an advantage over someone who's parents weren't in Macomb County and in real estate. But, so what? It is what it is, you can't help how you're born.

Besides, the more normal story you hear of people in this age group who were given these opportunities is that they succeed and then move out of state and have left Michigan behind. I come from a similar background as Domas (a bit older) and it's discouraging to look around at friends that I made along the way who have picked up and left Michigan behind. If you want to complain about people in this demographic, pick those who packed up and left, instead of sticking your nose up at one who has stayed behind and is proud to have done so.

So, I'll say thank you to Domas for staying and making a go of it here.

For people that are criticizing Domas because he was raised in the suburbs or he wasn't raised in poverty, don't you think a lot of what you're complaining about sounds awfully similar to what Monica Conyers or Martha Reeves seems to be spouting lately, where it's a 'if you're not in Detroit, then we don't want to hear from you'?

If that's how you feel then shame on you. We need to get past that, not further it.

Whether we're from the suburbs or from Detroit, whether we had advantages or not growing up, that shouldn't take anything away from someone who is from Detroit, who loves the city and the area, and who is proud to have put effort into making it here.
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Benfield
Member
Username: Benfield

Post Number: 160
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

It is what it is, you can't help how you're born.



Ok, I've been too snarky on this point. I don't begrudge the advantages Doma has had in life. The criticism isn't that Doma had a comfortable childhood but that his attitude reflects an ignorance that other people in other circumstances are dealing with challenges that can't be resolved with a good attitude and a little extra elbow grease.

Not to get too philosophical about it but I think that Americans, as a people, are too wrapped up in the self-made man ideal. Very few people truly rise from poverty to wealth and success. Material success is really a multi-generational process.

My grandfather was an immigrant laborer who spoke broken English. My father, armed with a high school education, was a successful salesman. I was fortunate enough to attend college and I have a professional career. My own hard work played a large role in whatever success I have attained but I'm not self-made. I stand on the shoulders of my parents and grandparents. I'm sure I have unknown distant cousins back in the old country (rural eastern Europe) who are probably fine people but it would take more than a "If it were this easy..." mantra to make "a few mil." Of course they could be Russian oligarchs now so who the hell knows.

There's a certain amount of random chance and luck to life. For someone, especially a 27-year-old, to say "I'm doing fine, you lazy people just need to try harder" is insulting especially during a recession when poorer and working class people see their opportunities for advancement shrink at a rate greater than the population as a whole. Maybe if my grandfather had just tried harder during the Depression, instead of looking for work in that era's equivalent of the Home Depot parking lot for work, he would have made a few mil too...
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Big_baby_jebus
Member
Username: Big_baby_jebus

Post Number: 114
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^^^^^

With the narrow view you have its no wonder why you feel you can't achieve anything worth while.

You really missed the point of the whole post Doma wrote. I got, because I lived that story too. So did most of the people that chose to live here that are my age and of my background.
There is a lot more of "us" living downtown with Doma's mind set and you old, soggy Fu@kers just still don't get it.

IT'S PEOPLE LIKE US WHO WILL BE RUNNING THIS CITY IN A FEW YEARS. GET USED TO IT BENFIELD
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Noodles
Member
Username: Noodles

Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

IT'S PEOPLE LIKE US WHO WILL BE RUNNING THIS CITY IN A FEW YEARS. GET USED TO IT BENFIELD



Then rock bottom doesn't mean resembling Flint. It'll be worse than that.
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Urbanfisherman
Member
Username: Urbanfisherman

Post Number: 122
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

It sounds very similar to many young detroiters stories.



No offence, but I doubt you've met very many young Detroiters. 20-something white transplant hipsters maybe, but that little fairy tale is nothing like what most young Detroiters lives are like.
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Locke09
Member
Username: Locke09

Post Number: 125
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, perhaps the reality for most is somewhere in between Doma's story and this:-)

You Can't Win lyrics
(from "The Wiz")

You can't win
You can't break even
And you can't get out of the game
People keep sayin'
Things are gonna change
But they look just like
You're stayin' the same

You get in
Way over your head
And you only got yourself to blame
You can't win Child
(You can't win Child)
You can't break even
And you can't get out of the game

You can't win
The world keeps movin'
And you're standin' far behind
People keep sayin'
Things'll get better
(Just to ease your state of mind)
(So you lean back, and you smoke that smoke)
(And you drink your glass of wine)
So you can't win, Child
You can't break even
And you can't get out of the game

You can't win, you can't win no way
If your story stays the same
(You ain't winnin'),
No, no,
(But it's nice to see you)
(I'm awfully glad you came)
(Better cool it 'cause
It ain't about losin')
And the world has got no shame
You can't win, Child
You can't break even
You can't get out of the game

You can't win
You can't break even
Ain't the way it's supposed to be
(You'll be spendin'),
No, no
(Your little bit of money)
While someone else rides for free
(Learn your lesson), ooh,
(Refuel your mind)
(Before some turkey blows out your flame)

You can't win, Child
You can't break even
And you can't get out of the game
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Benfield
Member
Username: Benfield

Post Number: 161
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

IT'S PEOPLE LIKE US WHO WILL BE RUNNING THIS CITY IN A FEW YEARS.



I wish you a lot of luck with that.
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Big_baby_jebus
Member
Username: Big_baby_jebus

Post Number: 115
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, take offense to this...

The outdated, neanderthal vision you have of this city is pathetic.

Hipster transplants might just be the only people who actually care. If you have so much contempt for "white" people or Suburbanites that would rather live here and try to do something besides bit@h and moan all day the shove it up your @ss.

I really try not to even look at this board anymore, it really just makes me sick. I run into people like you all the time and I just pity your narrow, un-educated, and un-cultured existence.
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Big_baby_jebus
Member
Username: Big_baby_jebus

Post Number: 116
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, take offense to this...

The outdated, neanderthal vision you have of this city is pathetic.

Hipster transplants might just be the only people who actually care. If you have so much contempt for "white" people or Suburbanites that would rather live here and try to do something besides bit@h and moan all day, then shove it up your @ss.

I really try not to even look at this board anymore, it really just makes me sick. I run into people like you all the time and I just pity your narrow, un-educated, and un-cultured existence.
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Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 5406
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 12:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't worry, BBJ, one day you'll grow out of your culture and intelligence, too, like other young'uns do.
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Cycledetroit
Member
Username: Cycledetroit

Post Number: 86
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 12:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank You Big Baby Jesus.
"The outdated, neanderthal vision you have of this city is pathetic. " is exactly how I feel about many old school Detroiters.


Just because I am in my mid 20s and white does not make any less of a Detroiter than anyone else. I was born in Detroit, and I pay Detroit taxes, I am pretty sure that makes me a Detroiter.

Any "white hipster transplant" who chooses to live in the city, despite the taxes, car insurance, and dealing with flack from people in all directions is a Detroiter. My peers are the future of this city. We believe in a better Detroit, and that is why we choose to live here. Look at French, for example, he is 17, He lives in the Suburbs, he is white.. he LOVES this city and he is planning on spending his life and career making it better.
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Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit

Post Number: 1004
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 12:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If everyone had the positive attitude that Doma has, could you imagine how great Detroit would be?
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Benfield
Member
Username: Benfield

Post Number: 162
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 1:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

If everyone had the positive attitude that Doma has, could you imagine how great Detroit would be?



Probably the same as it is now because aptitude trumps attitude everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'm kind of touched some of you chalk up my attitude to being some old-timer burn-out considering I'm 34-years-old and only moved into the city in 2002. I like living here but I also like reality. Its going take more that positive energy to significantly improve Detroit in a way that lifts all boats. And we need to lift all boats because even the greatest, hippest, most pedestrian-friendly downtown is useless if some angry kid from Brightmoor puts a gun in your face because he had no real educational or occupational opportunities.

Detroit is a city with half its population living below the poverty line, an untenable public education system, and a dying core industry. I think making Detroit better starts with addressing these fundamental macro issues. Of course I also tie an onion to my belt as it was the style back in aught two.
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Alsodave
Member
Username: Alsodave

Post Number: 771
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 1:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about:

could you imagine how great Detroit would be if everyone with Doma's positive attitude worked toward affecting positive change in the city?
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Alsodave
Member
Username: Alsodave

Post Number: 772
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 1:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One more...

Who annointed "white hipster transplants" as the saviours of Detroit? Aren't there other people living in Detroit that are working just as hard to make the city better? Don't their efforts count, too?
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Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 5407
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 1:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Positive attitudes are forward looking, energetic, enthusiastic but still realistic, and, preferably, inclusive and consensus building without being condescending. They see possibilities and can tolerate listening to many different inputs, culling and amalgamating the best bits and pieces of ideas into workable projects and achievable goals. They nurture commonly held visions and goals for the greater good, not just for themselves. They can, in the best cases, provide motivation and instill feelings of hope and relief in trying times.

There are positive attitudes in Detroit. They are coaches, teachers, clergy, public servants, business owners, etc. They are employed and unemployed, paupers and millionaires. They have kept things going despite all else. They tend not to pat themselves on the back and they often remain under the radar because they don't jump up and down screaming "Look at me!!!"

I believe, despite the circus atmosphere, there might even be one or two on Council.

What isn't needed are senses of self that reflect what's been recently displayed on Wall Street or by other members of City Council. I, Me, Mine, Look at me! doesn't cut it and needs to be weeded out.
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Kevgoblu
Member
Username: Kevgoblu

Post Number: 204
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 2:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any 20 year-old who isn't a liberal doesn't have a heart, and any 40 year-old who isn't a conservative doesn't have a brain.
-Winston Churchill

We were all full of energy and idealistic thoughts when we were 20. Come back in 20 years after you've banged your head on that brick wall time and time again. All the while accepting that life is sending you more and more needs (raising a family) and less and less wants (having a cool-a$$ loft close to the bar scene).

I'm anxious to hear how things work out for you. Wishing you the best of luck.
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Waz
Member
Username: Waz

Post Number: 278
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I LOVE that Churchill quote. First time I've seen it.
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Urbanfisherman
Member
Username: Urbanfisherman

Post Number: 123
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 5:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You've never seen it because Churchill never said it...
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Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit

Post Number: 1011
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 6:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"A positive attitude will not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort." - Herm Albright

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