Discuss Detroit DISCUSS DETROIT! Anderson cooper :: can pittsburgh save detroit? Previous Next
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Edgar_rhode
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Username: Edgar_rhode

Post Number: 27
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 10:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/200 9/03/18/can-pittsburgh-save-de troit/
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1976
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 10:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pittsburgh does provide a viable model for Detroit, but not for the reasons that Anderson Cooper outlined.

Pittsburgh has a "meds and eds" approach (University of Pittsburgh Medical Center + Carnegie Mellon).

Detroit has "meds and eds" (DMC & Henry Ford + Wayne State & Univ. of Detroit-Mercy). It hasn't worked anywhere near as well.

The difference is that Pittsburgh has a local government that actually delivers services in exchange for the taxes that it collects. We should try that here.
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 520
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 11:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pittsburgh has had greater economic contraction and population loss than Detroit.

It's a poorer and less economically dynamic region.

That's our "model"?
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Eastsideal
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Username: Eastsideal

Post Number: 418
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 11:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's also a much nicer, safer, and less abandoned city than Detroit, with a much livlier downtown and neighborhoods with a considerably healthier small business sector.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4298
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 11:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, the problem is that Detroit has "meds and eds" and a whole lot of other industries, where as Pittsburgh now only has "meds and eds" left. Some speak of the region as if it had a choice. lol Pittsburgh is a great example of how to shrink a metro area...if that's your goal.
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Detroitej72
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Username: Detroitej72

Post Number: 1357
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 11:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pittsburgh also has a government that is less concerned with keeping their pockets fat, with total disreguard to the city.

Detroit, unfortunately, has the clown council, with the likes of: Mon 'they don't look like me' Con, Barb-Rose 'I hate the white race' Collins,and Watson, who are much more concerned with "keeping it real, gotta keep my street creed", than actually rolling up and fixing the problems of everyday Detroiters.
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Ocean2026
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Username: Ocean2026

Post Number: 164
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 12:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i know Pittsburgh pretty well and it didn't do anything special nor is it a model to emulate. Its not a bad town but has lots of traffic and some pretty bad neighborhoods. Some of these comparisons drive me nuts -someone on City-Data.com said Detroit and Butte Montana have the same history.

I started a thread here once comparing Detroit and Buffalo but those two cities have similarities -even a big auto presence.
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Irvine_laird
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Username: Irvine_laird

Post Number: 98
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 9:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The big idea is not that Detroit become exactly like Pittsburgh, but that Detroit re-invent itself as Pittsburch re-invented itself over the last 20 years.

The past is the biggest barrier to our future in metro Detroit as it could have been in Pittsburgh. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of knowing our past, but any attempt to preserve the way things used to be is bound to fail. I feel that in metro Detroit, we have a habit of either pining away for the "golden days" of early 20th century (more than 50 years ago now!) or carrying old grudges (see "city-suburb", "white-black," etc.). We hold onto to both extremes with a death grip. It is telling that those whose knuckles are whitest are usually those in the greatest positions of power and privilege (auto barons and government officials) or those who are marginalized.

I truly hate to say this, but some institutions probably need to fail before we can begin an earnest pursuit of our future. As painful as bankruptcy for the auto companies may be or receivership for governments like those in Detroit or Pontiac, these may be the wounds that ultimately heal our region.

It is essential, however, that in the failure of economic or government institutions, consensus-building, forward-thinking leaders emerge to point us in the right direction.

I see plenty of reason to hope. The "One D" initiative, a near-consensus in the popular media that the posturing and pandering of government officials is ridiculous, the progress we're making toward regional mass transit, initiatives like Automation Alley, the aerotropolis, and Medical Main Street, etc. Groups like the Michigan Roundtable are doing admirable and effective work to heal old wounds.

I believe we're about to turn a corner--a painful corner--but one that will turn us toward a road to better things.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 5401
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 9:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Irvine_laird, I'm glad you made the distinction between knowing the past and maintaining past practices. The past is to be learned from and lessons learned need to be incorporated going forward. However, I think much of the US has lost its knowledge of the past and has been blindly barreling forward until it went over the cliff. I think Detroit is one of the few places that hasn't forgotten the lessons of the past and the country should observe and learn from what's happened here over these last 30-50 years. In particular I think the country needs to acknowledge that all types of industry and employment are necessary to stay strong and viable and that (equating the City proper with the nation) efforts need to be made to keep wealth at home instead of just watching it flow out. The City isn't in a position anymore to exert much power along that front, but the Feds are and they need to before America Inc. becomes impotent.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1977
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 10:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Detroit, unfortunately, has the clown council, with the likes of: Mon 'they don't look like me' Con, Barb-Rose 'I hate the white race' Collins,and Watson, who are much more concerned with "keeping it real, gotta keep my street creed", than actually rolling up and fixing the problems of everyday Detroiters.


Don't forget the biggest clown of all: Ken "Virtually Useless" Cockrel.
quote:

The past is the biggest barrier to our future in metro Detroit as it could have been in Pittsburgh.


How does the past prevent the City of Detroit from providing basic city services?
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 2116
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that the City should seriously consider de-annexing some sparsely populated areas to save a significant amount of money on having to provide city services, schools, infrastructure support, and maintenance to those areas. The city is going to shrink at least to the 700,000 population level; there is no sense financially in continuing to maintain all 139 square miles. Those near-rural areas in the city that fall below a particular density level could return to township status. The population that chooses to stay in those areas could simply receive nominal services from Wayne County.
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Detroit313
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Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 806
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 7:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well thank you Mr. Cooper, but no thanks!

We'll call you when Detroit falls below 200,000 resident!
:-)

<313>
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 1016
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 8:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ocean2026: "Some of these comparisons drive me nuts"

ALL of these city comparisons drive ME nuts!

The solutions to Detroit are fairly simple. You don't have to travel across the country to find another city for Detroit to emulate. The solution is simple: Elect people that have a clue how to do their job, provide city services, lower the millage, eliminate corruption and waste, enforce the laws, etc. This isn't rocket science, Detroit.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 1017
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 8:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Considering the amount of money that the Detroit City Clowncil has wasted "researching" cities like Dubai, Singapore, etc., I should have said: "You don't have to travel around the WORLD to find another city for Detroit to emulate."
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1978
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 1:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I think that the City should seriously consider de-annexing some sparsely populated areas to save a significant amount of money on having to provide city services, schools, infrastructure support, and maintenance to those areas.


I think certain parts of Detroit should seriously consider being de-annexed from Detroit. It would allow them to get better services, without flushing so much of their tax dollars down the proverbial toilet.
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Glowblue
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Username: Glowblue

Post Number: 192
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 3:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Ocean2026: "Some of these comparisons drive me nuts"

ALL of these city comparisons drive ME nuts!

The solutions to Detroit are fairly simple. You don't have to travel across the country to find another city for Detroit to emulate. The solution is simple: Elect people that have a clue how to do their job, provide city services, lower the millage, eliminate corruption and waste, enforce the laws, etc. This isn't rocket science, Detroit.



Because Detroit just has so much money laying around that they can dramatically improve services and cut taxes at the same time. After all, it's not as if the root of Detroit's problems is that its tax base has eroded down to nothing...
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 1935
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 4:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it possible to de-annex? I mean, does Michigan law provide any means whatever by which this process could take place? I've never heard of this happening, anywhere.

Glow, come; the tax base eroded down to nothing why exactly? Don't put the cart before the horse.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 1040
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 5:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is possible to de-annex and there are laws for it. The correct term is "Detachment".
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 1041
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 5:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

THE HOME RULE CITY ACT (EXCERPT)
Act 279 of 1909


117.9b Detachment of territory from city; conditions; intergovernmental agreement imposing conditions on detachment; reannexation to detaching city; detached territory not subject to annexation.

Sec. 9b.

(1) In addition to the detachment procedures otherwise authorized by this act, territory may be detached from a city if all of the following conditions are met:

(a) The territory to be detached was annexed to the city after the city was incorporated.

(b) The territory to be detached is to be reattached to the municipality from which that territory was annexed.

(c) The city does not provide water or sewer service in the territory to be detached.

(d) The council of the city from which the territory is being detached approves a resolution authorizing the detachment of the territory and confirming an agreement relating to the detachment.

(e) The legislative body of the municipality from which the territory to be detached was annexed approves a resolution authorizing detachment of the territory and confirming an agreement related to the detachment.

(2) The city and municipality involved in a detachment under this section may enter into an intergovernmental agreement which imposes conditions on the detachment. The conditions may include, but need not be limited to, building restrictions and zoning within the territory to be detached.

(3) Territory detached under this section is immediately reannexed to the detaching city if any of the following occurs:

(a) The city can and agrees to provide water and sewer services, the city certifies these facts to the state boundary commission, and the state boundary commission finds that the city can provide water and sewer services to this territory.

(b) The municipality to which the territory was reattached fails to comply with the intergovernmental agreement, the city certifies that fact to the state boundary commission, and the state boundary commission finds that the municipality is not in compliance.

(4) Reannexation pursuant to subsection (3) shall not be subject to the annexation requirements and restrictions of this act; Act No. 191 of the Public Acts of 1968, being sections 123.1001 to 123.1020 of the Michigan Compiled Laws; or Act No. 359 of the Public Acts of 1947, being sections 42.1 to 42.34 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(5) All or part of territory detached under this section shall not be subject to annexation.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(52sdwr55ncjazxfbvaos3g45))/ mileg.aspx?page=getObject&obje ctName=mcl-117-9b
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 560
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 5:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And detachment would help how?? I don't get it. It is great to be in the "Here and Now" and blame everything on the council and former mayor but Detroit's issues go way beyond that. That council is a result of the issues--not the cause of it.
Government has responsibility-no doubt. But blaming a corrupt mayor and council for everything is an easy way out. It's an excuse. Folks need to stop blaming blacky and whitey for everything that is wrong with Detroit. But, I just don't see that happening. It may be to far gone.
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Glowblue
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Username: Glowblue

Post Number: 193
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 10:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Glow, come; the tax base eroded down to nothing why exactly? Don't put the cart before the horse.



Uh, suburbanization and white flight?

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