Discuss Detroit » DISCUSS DETROIT! » Metro medical marijuana outlets. « Previous Next »
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Bigb23
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Post Number: 4221
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In regard to this article, and the recent bill passed in Michigan, what local cities would be the first or last to license a prescription only, marijuana outlet ? First three, last three.


"Obama Administration to Stop Raids on Medical Marijuana Dispensers"

quote:

WASHINGTON — Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. on Wednesday outlined a shift in the enforcement of federal drug laws, saying the administration would effectively end the Bush administration’s frequent raids on distributors of medical marijuana.

Speaking with reporters, Mr. Holder provided few specifics but said the Justice Department’s enforcement policy would now be restricted to traffickers who falsely masqueraded as medical dispensaries and “use medical marijuana laws as a shield.”

In the Bush administration, federal agents raided medical marijuana distributors that violated federal statutes even if the dispensaries appeared to be complying with state laws. The raids produced a flood of complaints, particularly in California, which in 1996 became the first state to legalize marijuana sales to people with doctors’ prescriptions.



Article here
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Ocean2026
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Post Number: 165
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and where would the recreational marijuana outlets be?
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Shadesofbleu
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Recreational uses still aren't allowed. The government cares about you, and WILL protect you from yourself whether you like it or not. Sometimes freedom is just too immoral or scary to allow in White America.

Besides, marijuana is a drug, and DRUGS ARE BAD. Never having used or taken illegal narcotics, I can say that they have NOTHING to offer.

(Message edited by ShadesofBleu on March 19, 2009)
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20043_stotter
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With the MIchigan law, there will be no recreational or any other outlets. Also under the law there will be no prescriptions at all. Even for medicinal purposes. If you qualify for a permit, you must purchase your medicine on the street, or be able to grow 10 plants at home. Sorry.
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20043_stotter
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Shadesofbleu, when is the government going to protect me from alcohol and cigarettes? The government of MI., won't even pass a no smoking law. Do they really care about you and me?
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Shadesofbleu
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with you 100%! Alcohol and cigarettes should also be banned. We need to organize and march on Lansing. We must protect our people!

Despite the health and crime issues, Marijuana became illegal after alcohol was prohibited. Until then, only black jazz musicians and other minorities used Marijuana. Suddenly, young whites started going to black or Mexican areas in New Orleans and near the boarder, and it became a problem.

It was determined that Marijuana sent blacks and Mexicans in a uncontrollable frenzy, so it was decided that something had to be done. Shortly there after, it became illegal in some Southern states, and at the time you could get life in prison if you were black or Mexican and got caught with a marijuana cigarette. This solved bread line problems in the depression, and scared away white children from hanging out with the blacks and Mexicans.

Back in those days, banning drugs was in violation of the Constitution. The constitution was bypassed by borrowing a policy from machine gun regulation. Tax stamps were used. Only so many tax stamps would be given out to distributors by the U.S. government. All they had to do was convince the United States Government that Marijuana is as dangerous as a machine gun. This was done by proving it is a gateway drugs and led to a life of crime by white school children.

The tax stamp law was passed, but the government didn't give stamps. Also, you had to have the Marijuana in hand and break the law to get a stamp. Still, I think this was a good way to get around the problem of the U.S. Constitution. Until 1914, recreational drug use was viewed as being a right protected by the constitution.

Unfortunately, the law was overturned by an argument from a Timothy Leary. Young liberal people began using Marijuana and acting too freely, and a new act was passed; the Controlled Substance Act of 1970.

Marijuana is dangerous, but it's illegal status exists because of immigration politics. What we need now is for minorities to begin using them in droves again, and then we can convince some people they need to be illegal. It would also mean more jobs for people willing to put their life on the line to become D.E.A. agents.

20043_Stotter is right! Alcohol and cigarettes need to be criminalized. That is how it was done with Marijuana, and how we can do it with alcohol and tobacco.

(Message edited by ShadesofBleu on March 19, 2009)
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Jams
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

and where would the recreational marijuana outlets be?



Check out busy bus stops.
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Denbytar64
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Username: Denbytar64

Post Number: 154
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints and then I smoke two more!
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Detroitfats
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Username: Detroitfats

Post Number: 75
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice Sublime reset, Denby!
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Bigb23
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Username: Bigb23

Post Number: 4222
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 7:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints and then I smoke two more!



Because he forgot about the previous two. Never ends.

Anyway, to answer my own question,

First ) Ann Arbor, Pontiac, Ferndale

Last ) Any of the Pointes
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 2146
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marijuana is about as dangerous as a pin prick

(Message edited by chi-taku on March 19, 2009)
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Apbest
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Post Number: 663
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

shadesofbleu....how can you speak to the potential value of marijuana when you proudly admit to never "having used or taken illegal narcotics"? I would imagine a quaker would say there's no value in using a car for transportation but the rest of non-luddite society would say otherwise having actually tried it.

Even if you are right that there may be no intrinsic "societal value" to a drug like marijuana (though I and most Prop 2 supporters would disagree) the simple fact that it is enjoyable when used in moderation should warrant even its recreational legalization with strong empirical evidence via the Netherlands that when seriously controlled, it is utterly harmless.

I don't expect you or other critics of marijuana to support recreational legalization solely on the fact that it "feels good" but a simple examination of government cash flow should convince you. We would save millions by eliminating incarceration of non-violent offenders while simultaneously provide millions of new revenue via taxes on marijuana. That is a huge windfall for the state providing a swing in revenue necessary to pay for vital services.

I challenge someone to provide one compelling arguement as to why it should be illegal operating under the assumption that it is impossible to curb usage completely (as evidenced by the fact that marijuana use is widespread globally and the failed experiment of prohibition, though I will gladly debate those assumptions)

(Message edited by apbest on March 19, 2009)
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Detroit313
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Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 810
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here ya go!


(313) 224-4530

http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/le gislative/citycouncil/members/ conyersm/ConyersM_content.htm


<313>
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Retroit
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Post Number: 1014
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exposing the Myth of Medical Marijuana
Marijuana: The Facts

Q: Does marijuana pose health risks to users?

Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use:


The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2.


In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled.


There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.


Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.


Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.3


Smoking marijuana also weakens the immune system4 and raises the risk of lung infections.5 A Columbia University study found that a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white-blood-cell count that was 39 percent lower than normal, thus damaging the immune system and making the user far more susceptible to infection and sickness.6


Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence.


More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999.


Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7
Q. Does marijuana have any medical value?

Any determination of a drug's valid medical use must be based on the best available science undertaken by medical professionals. The Institute of Medicine conducted a comprehensive study in 1999 to assess the potential health benefits of marijuana and its constituent cannabinoids. The study concluded that smoking marijuana is not recommended for the treatment of any disease condition. In addition, there are more effective medications currently available. For those reasons, the Institute of Medicine concluded that there is little future in smoked marijuana as a medically approved medication.8


Advocates have promoted the use of marijuana to treat medical conditions such as glaucoma. However, this is a good example of more effective medicines already available. According to the Institute of Medicine, there are six classes of drugs and multiple surgical techniques that are available to treat glaucoma that effectively slow the progression of this disease by reducing high intraocular pressure.


In other studies, smoked marijuana has been shown to cause a variety of health problems, including cancer, respiratory problems, increased heart rate, loss of motor skills, and increased heart rate. Furthermore, marijuana can affect the immune system by impairing the ability of T-cells to fight off infections, demonstrating that marijuana can do more harm than good in people with already compromised immune systems.9


In addition, in a recent study by the Mayo Clinic, THC was shown to be less effective than standard treatments in helping cancer patients regain lost appetites.10


The American Medical Association recommends that marijuana remain a Schedule I controlled substance.


The DEA supports research into the safety and efficacy of THC (the major psychoactive component of marijuana), and such studies are ongoing, supported by grants from the National Institute on Drug Abuse.


As a result of such research, a synthetic THC drug, Marinol, has been available to the public since 1985. The Food and Drug Administration has determined that Marinol is safe, effective, and has therapeutic benefits for use as a treatment for nausea and vomiting associated with cancer chemotherapy, and as a treatment of weight loss in patients with AIDS. However, it does not produce the harmful health effects associated with smoking marijuana.


Furthermore, the DEA recently approved the University of California San Diego to undertake rigorous scientific studies to assess the safety and efficacy of cannabis compounds for treating certain debilitating medical conditions.


It's also important to realize that the campaign to allow marijuana to be used as medicine is a tactical maneuver in an overall strategy to completely legalize all drugs. Pro-legalization groups have transformed the debate from decriminalizing drug use to one of compassion and care for people with serious diseases. The New York Times interviewed Ethan Nadelman, Director of the Lindesmith Center, in January 2000. Responding to criticism from former Drug Czar Barry McCaffrey that the medical marijuana issue is a stalking-horse for drug legalization, Mr. Nadelman did not contradict General McCaffrey. "Will it help lead toward marijuana legaization?" Mr. Nadelman said: "I hope so."
Q. Does marijuana harm anyone besides the individual who smokes it?

Consider the public safety of others when confronted with intoxicated drug users:


Marijuana affects many skills required for safe driving: alertness, the ability to concentrate, coordination, and reaction time. These effects can last up to 24 hours after smoking marijuana. Marijuana use can make it difficult to judge distances and react to signals and signs on the road.11


In a 1990 report, the National Transportation Safety Board studied 182 fatal truck accidents. It found that just as many of the accidents were caused by drivers using marijuana as were caused by alcohol -- 12.5 percent in each case.


Consider also that drug use, including marijuana, contributes to crime. A large percentage of those arrested for crimes test positive for marijuana. Nationwide, 40 percent of adult males tested positive for marijuana at the time of their arrest.
Q. Is marijuana a gateway drug?

Yes. Among marijuana's most harmful consequences is its role in leading to the use of other illegal drugs like heroin and cocaine. Long-term studies of students who use drugs show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana. While not all people who use marijuana go on to use other drugs, using marijuana sometimes lowers inhibitions about drug use and exposes users to a culture that encourages use of other drugs.


The risk of using cocaine has been estimated to be more than 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it.12
In Summary:

Marijuana is a dangerous, addictive drug that poses significant health threats to users.


Marijuana has no medical value that can't be met more effectively by legal drugs.


Marijuana users are far more likely to use other drugs like cocaine and heroin than non-marijuana users.


Drug legalizers use "medical marijuana" as red herring in effort to advocate broader legalization of drug use.

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------

1Herbert Kleber, Mitchell Rosenthal, "Drug Myths from Abroad: Leniency is Dangerous, not Compassionate" Foreign Affairs Magazine, September/October 1998. Drug Watch International "NIDA Director cites Studies that Marijuana is Addictive." "Research Finds Marijuana is Addictive," Washington Times, July 24, 1995.
2National Institue of Drug Abuse, Journal of the American Medical Association, Journal of Clinical Phamacology, International Journal of Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics, Pharmacology Review.
3"Marijuana and Heart Attacks" Washington Post, March 3, 2000
4I. B. Adams and BR Martin, "Cannabis: Pharmacology and Toxicology in Animals and Humans" Addiction 91: 1585-1614. 1996.
5National Institute of Drug Abuse, "Smoking Any Substance Raises Risk of Lung Infections" NIDA Notes, Volume 12, Number 1, January/February 1997.
6Dr. James Dobson, "Marijuana Can Cause Great Harm" Washington Times, February 23, 1999.
72000 National Drug Control Strategy Annual Report, page 13.
8"Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Institute of Medicine, 1999.
9See footnotes in response to question 4 regarding marijuana's short and long term health effects.
10"Marijuana Appetite Boost Lacking in Cancer Study" The New York Times, May 13, 2001.
11Marijuana: Facts Parents Need to Know, National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health.
12Marijuana: Facts Parents Need to Know, National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health.

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/ongoi ng/marijuanap.html
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20043_stotter
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And the dangers of alcohol, pain killers and cigarettes are?
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20043_stotter
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Four young teens killed recently by a womans addiction to alcohol. Plus many, many other cases annually. Lung and heart disease rampant from cigarettes.How many marijuana brawls did you ever hear about? How about beer brawls? The wrong drugs are legal and money makers. I say ban the harder and more addictive drugs like alcohol and tobacco. Grass is free to grow, nobody makes a dime, so it's not legal, Go figure. Retroit, You may be right and you may be wrong. Let the public decide. Medicinal was voted for by the majority of voters in Michigan. I don't think the majority of Michigan voters smoke marijuana, do you? I think you may probably be on the losing side of this debate.
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Retroit
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People die from drowning in water, but I wouldn't advocate for making water illegal, nor compare it to "medicinal" marijuana.
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Chitaku
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

funny that info comes from a government site
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Bigb23
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Post Number: 4223
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, as some posters have stated above, with relaxed Federal laws, and specific State laws, anyone with a debilitating disease, can only grow at home or find their relief on a street corner.

The Feds have been at this longer than any of us.


National Advisory Council on Drug Abuse
Department of Health and Human Services
National Institutes of Health
National Institute on Drug Abuse

quote:

Under the current contract with the University of Mississippi for any given year NIDA has the option to grow either 1.5 or 6.5 acres of cannabis, or to not grow any at all, depending on research demand. Generally, 1.5 acres are grown in alternate years. The number of cannabis cigarettes produced from 1.5 acres is about 50,000-60,000, although it can be higher. Cigarettes are produced in three potencies: strength 1 - 3-4 %; strength 2 - 1.8-2.2 %; and strength 3 - placebo, as close to 0% as possible. During the past three years, the following quantities have been shipped: 1994 - 24,000 cigarettes; 1995 - 23, 100 - cigarettes; and 1996 17,700 cigarettes. Virtually all of the cigarettes shipped in the last three years have been for single patient INDs. As of March 1997 there were 278, 100 cigarettes in stock. The cigarettes are maintained in frozen storage and have a useful life of approximately five years.



http://www.nida.nih.gov/about/ organization/nacda/marijuanast atement.html
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20043_stotter
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Retroit, Are you saying you would deny medicinal marijuana to dying and disabled patients? Even though this law was passed by a large majority of MIchigan voters and NOW is the law? If yes, you lack serious compassion to your fellow man. Heaven help you if you ever contract cancer or aids or MS. A physician friend of mine says MJ helps cure over 40 serious diseases. He doesn't smoke it and says these are real facts done by independents labs and not gov. propaganda offices.
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20043_stotter
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Retroit, Are you saying you would deny medicinal marijuana to dying and disabled patients? Even though this law was passed by a large majority of MIchigan voters and NOW is the law? If yes, you lack serious compassion to your fellow man. Heaven help you if you ever contract cancer or aids or MS. A physician friend of mine says MJ helps cure over 40 serious diseases. He doesn't smoke it and says these are real facts done by independents labs and not gov. propaganda.
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Besides, marijuana is a drug, and DRUGS ARE BAD. Never having used or taken illegal narcotics, I can say that they have NOTHING to offer.


How can you have a say at all if you've never tried it? And who says that marijuana is a narcotic? If you're talking about heroin or cocaine, then I agree. But marijuana cannot possibly be classified with those REAL drugs.

This crap is so old. We all know marijuana is no more "harmful" than a couple glasses of wine or a painkiller. Try concentrating on something constructive, like getting drunk drivers off the streets. Didn't we all learn something when that alcoholic slammed into a car of teenagers last week? Maybe if our culture wasn't so obsessed with drinking we would be safer. No one has killed anyone being high on pot. They might become lazy & smoke too much, but you never hear of "high driving".
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Bigb23
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Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

No one has killed anyone being high on pot. They might become lazy & smoke too much, but you never hear of "high driving".



But, in my experience, (25 years ago), driving at 25 MPH, was not cool either.
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Philbo
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 12:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Legalize it and tax the hell out of it. If nothing else we will weaken the street gangs that depend on so called illegal drugs for much of thier revenue. When there is a strong demand for something that is banned it simply goes underground. Think about the Prohibition and the so called illegal fireworks that are so common on the 4th of July.
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Ravine
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Never having read any of Shadesofbleu's posts other than the first one on this thread, I can say that they have nothing to offer.
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Purpleheart
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Username: Purpleheart

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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 6:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ what he said
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Wally
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 8:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Legalize it and tax the hell out of it.

Legalize, but don't tax it one penny.
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Defendbrooklyn
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 8:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Shadesofbleu,
Welcome to the conversations of D-Yes...

YOU ARE CRAZY!

"The government cares about you"

"Only black jazz musicians used marry jane..."

YOU ARE CRAZY!
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Sumas
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree, legalize it as a pharmactical. I don't smoke it, but have no problems with people who do. As mentioned before, we have a friend who is living with multiple cancers and this helps him. Last fall his supplier ran short. I jokingly said, I bet I could make two calls and find you some. Two calls and one to the supplier. We arranged for "a buy" for him at an urban liquor store. It was a very creepy experience. I am law abiding, but I would do it again, if necessary to help alleivate his pain. I asked him to keep his seeds and will be growing plants for him to harvest this year. I don't feel remotely guilty. Just legalize this stuff.
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Kryptonite
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 9:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was prescribed Marinol during radiation treatments for bone cancer in 2006. 200 pills cost $1,200 for a presctiption. Marinol is a synthetic marijuana used when no other medicines will control vomiting from radiation treatments, etc.

Personally I see no logical argument against legalized marijuana, particularly in the context that Proposal 1 intended.

I always wonder how much money would be saved by prescribing legal marijuana. It couldn't possibly cost $1,200 for an equivalent amount to what I was prescribed at the time.
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Emuaaron
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 9:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ummmm, ShadesofBleu's comments were tongue-in-cheek, and i agree with him/her fully.
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Det313grrl
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 10:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think ALL politicians should be subject to drug-testing. I bet the laws regarding marijuana would be changed, rather quickly, I might add.
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Baselinepunk
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Retroit's argument is not compelling in the least. A brief review of his cited sources reflect a lack of diverse and objective primary/peer reviewed sources. Tons of secondary and "National Institute" stuff.

Did I really see the name James Dobson listed in Retroit's bibliography? Washington Times? Really? Tsk Tsk.
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Ongowwah
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You guys should ask Obama about this, he used to sell drugs and do coke. Maybe he'll turn his teleprompter on so he can answer you. :-)it's probably do to his druggie days as to why he can't say "hello" without a teleprompter.
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Retroit
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Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not an expert, but I haven't read any compelling evidence that marijuana is more beneficial than other pain killers. I really don't care if it is legal, but I wouldn't advocate its use.

My knowledge is limited to what I have read, including:

"Another precaution to keep in mind involves the potential health risks. These include:
Impairment of thinking.
Reduced balance and coordination.
Increased risk of cardiac disease.
Increased risk of pulmonary disease/infections.
Hallucinations and withdrawal symptoms.
Finally, although we live in a world in which we are constantly reminded of the superiority of things organic and found in nature, it does not mean things organic and found in nature cannot kill us. Some studies show marijuana smoke contains up to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does smoke from tobacco. Smokers need to be aware of the risks of lung cancer, particularly because true connoisseurs of what they deem nature's beneficial weed tend to inhale deeply and hold that breath for a longer period of time compared to those nasty tobacco users. This increases the lung exposure to cancer-causing components of marijuana."
http://www.healthcentral.com/c hronic-pain/c/91/41296/marijua na-money

"Marijuana is the most widely used illicit drug in the United States. Admissions in substance abuse treatment facilities in which marijuana was the primary problem substance have more than doubled since the early 1990s and now rank similar to cocaine and heroin with respect to total number of yearly treatment episodes in the United States, says Vandrey."
http://www.bio-medicine.org/me dicine-news-1/Marijuana-withdr awal-as-bad-as-withdrawal-from -cigarettes-10048-1/

"Although legalization activists and many marijuana users believe smoking pot has no negative effects, scientific research indicates that marijuana use can cause many different health problems.
Marijuana is the most commonly used illicit drug in the United States. When smoked, it begins to effect users almost immediately and can last for one to three hours. When it is eaten in food, such as baked in brownies and cookies, the effects take longer to begin, but usually last longer.


Short-Term Effects
The short-term effects of marijuana include:
Distorted perception (sights, sounds, time, touch)
Problems with memory and learning
Loss of coordination
Trouble with thinking and problem-solving
Increased heart rate, reduced blood pressure
Sometimes marijuana use can also produce anxiety, fear, distrust, or panic.

Effects on the Brain
The active ingredient in marijuana, delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol or THC, acts on cannabinoid receptors on nerve cells and influences the activity of those cells. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors, but other areas of the brain have few or none at all. Many cannabinoid receptors are found in the parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thought, concentration, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement.
When high doses of marijuana are used, usually when eaten in food rather than smoked, users can experience the following symptoms:


Hallucinations
Delusions
Impaired memory
Disorientation
Effects on the Heart
Within a few minutes after smoking marijuana, the heart begins beating more rapidly and the blood pressure drops. Marijuana can cause the heart beat to increase by 20 to 50 beats per minute, and can increase even more if other drugs are used at the same time.
Because of the lower blood pressure and higher heart rate, researchers found that users' risk for a heart attack is four times higher within the first hour after smoking marijuana.


Effects on the Lungs
Smoking marijuana, even infrequently, can cause burning and stinging of the mouth and throat, and cause heavy coughing. Scientists have found that regular marijuana smokers can experience the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers do, including:

Daily cough and phlegm production
More frequent acute chest illnesses
Increased risk of lung infections
Obstructed airways
Marijuana contains more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke and because marijuana smokers usually inhale deeper and hold the smoke in their lungs longer than tobacco smokers, their lungs are exposed to those carcinogenic properties longer.
One study found that marijuana smokers were three times more likely to develop cancer of the head or neck than non-smokers. Many researchers believe than smoking marijuana is overall more harmful to the lungs than smoking tobacco.


Other Health Effects
Research indicates that THC impairs the body's immune system from fighting disease, which can cause a wide variety of health problems. One study found that marijuana actually inhibited the disease-preventing actions of key immune cells. Another study found that THC increased the risk of developing bacterial infections and tumors.

Effects of Exposure During Pregnancy
Several studies have found that children born to mothers who used marijuana during pregnancy exhibit some problems with neurological development. According to those studies, prenatal marijuana exposure can cause:

Altered responses to visual stimuli
Increased tremulousness
Problems with sustained attention and memory
Poor problem-solving skills"
http://alcoholism.about.com/od /pot/a/effects.-JE5.htm

"The Expert Group also noted that risks associated with marijuana, especially smoked marijuana, must be considered not only in terms of immediate adverse effects on the lung; e.g., bronchi and alveoli, but also long-term effects in patients with chronic diseases. Additionally, age, immune status, the development of intercurrent illnesses, and concomitant diseases should be considered in the determination of the risk calculation. The possibility that frequent and prolonged marijuana use might lead to clinically significant impairments of immune system function is great enough that relevant studies should be part of any marijuana medication development research, particularly when marijuana will be used by patients with compromised immune systems. Concerns were expressed by members of the Expert Group on the use of smoked marijuana because of the combustion byproducts, particularly when marijuana would be used for conditions requiring chronic therapy."
http://arthritis.about.com/gi/ dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya &sdn=arthritis&zu=http%3A%2F%2 Fwww.nih.gov%2Fnews%2Fmedmarij uana%2FMedicalMarijuana.htm

"SEATTLE — February 9 — Frequent and/or long-term marijuana use may significantly increase a man's risk of developing the most aggressive type of testicular cancer, according to a study by researchers at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. The study results were published online Feb. 9 in the journal Cancer.

The researchers found that being a marijuana smoker at the time of diagnosis was associated with a 70 percent increased risk of testicular cancer. The risk was particularly elevated (about twice that of those who never smoked marijuana) for those who used marijuana at least weekly and/or who had long-term exposure to the substance beginning in adolescence...

Chronic marijuana exposure has multiple adverse effects on the endocrine and reproductive systems, primarily decreased sperm quality. Other possible effects include decreased testosterone and male impotency. Because male infertility and poor semen quality also have been linked to an increased risk of testicular cancer, this further reinforced the researchers' hypothesis that marijuana use may be a risk factor for the disease."
http://www.fhcrc.org/about/ne/ news/2009/02/09/marijuana.html

If anyone can provide me with information that proves that marijuana is not harmful, I'd be willing to reconsider my opposition.
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Bongman
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Username: Bongman

Post Number: 704
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Retroit...You might want to expand your google search. One can find enough evidence to support any claim related to this issue.

http://www.briancbennett.com/c harts/death/cannabis-yr.htm

Most people won't claim that marijuana is harmless. What users do claim is that the current war on drugs, the various propoganda claims used to defend it, and the priority given to it by law enforcement, is one of the biggest and most bogus scams ever run on the American people.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 1033
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with you on the War on Drugs, Bongman, but that's not going to convince people that smoking a joint to fight pain is better than taking a Tylenol.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 1034
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And regarding that link, Bongman, I don't think marijuana should be avoided because it is "deadly", just that its health benefits don't outweigh its health detriments.
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Kryptonite
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Username: Kryptonite

Post Number: 103
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Retroit there is a big difference between limited medical use and prolonged recreational use of marijuana. When I was given Marinol to control nausea caused by radiation treatments it was the third medication my oncologists had tried and it worked immediately. I wish that I could have been prescribed marijuana rather than marinol, the cost savings for the real thing vs. synthetic 'hooch' would have been huge. Instead my insurance was billed $1,200, I can't imagine the cost of natural marijuana would have been anywhere near that amount.

And in the case of dying patients, do you think they give a damn that they might suffer some long-term side effect from marijuana when they don't even have a long term? There is no sensible argument against legalised medical use.
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Grumpyoldlady
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Username: Grumpyoldlady

Post Number: 382
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gsgeorge..."Nobody has killed anyone being high on pot"....Well I beg to differ. Back in the 70's my boyfriend picked me up in his VW Beetle and we were cruising down 8-Mile to go to his house. He pulled out a joint and lit it. I told him that I wasn't going to get caught with him and that joint, so he pulled over and let me out of the car. An hour or so later, he was severely injured after he plowed into the back of the car in front of him. He was still giggling when they put him in the ambulance. Fortunately the people in the car he hit only sustained minor injuries, but I'm sure there are many deaths that SHOULD be attributed to a driver stoned on pot, but aren't.
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 3155
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He was still giggling? Were you still in the car with him, or not?
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Ocean2026
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Username: Ocean2026

Post Number: 168
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well my original remark about "where the Recreational outlets were" was facetious -light hearted. I saw a thread without postings and figured "why not?"

So are going to be serious? I've prosecuted and defended these cases for years.

The reason marijuana remains illegal is both political and economic.

Look at all the jobs created -at least in part by this. Judges= prosecutors -attorneys -public defenders- chemists - bailiffs - narcotics officers- secretaries for all of the above-drug treatment counselors- probation officers- more secretaries- bail bondsmen....

Some of the above are among the most influential segments of society.

I've written this in an article 20 years ago- not too much has changed except in some places marijuana has become a low priority for law enforcement.

If I had my druthers - I'd extend the death penalty ( with certain safeguards) to include burglary where an occupant is harmed- some aggravated sexual assaults ( where force is used). If not the death penalty than hard labor might be just as good -and more cost effective.

I don't care about marijuana unless they are blowing smoke in my face. Lets use our resources to nail real criminals!
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Gsgeorge
Member
Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 776
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grumpyoldlady, sorry to hear about your friend, i stand corrected. I agree driving while high is a rather bad idea (I never did it myself), I really meant to just compare it to driving drunk, and the relatively lower prominence of marijuana-related auto accidents. However perhaps a better way to say it is you never hear of marijuana users being violent or quick to confront, like alcohol users, and this is really when substance use becomes a problem for everyone.
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Grumpyoldlady
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Username: Grumpyoldlady

Post Number: 383
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 3:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ravine...no i wasn't in the car. I was called to the hospital and the ambulance attendant was still there and he told me. He did say that if Al hadn't been so relaxed he might have been hurt even worse.

Gsgeorge....yes, i think your rephrasing fits much better.
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 3059
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 4:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nobody here should dare to be comparing marijuana with alcohol or cigarettes - two of the deadliest products ever licensed and taxed by our government.

And statistics prove without argument that driving TIRED is far more dangerous than even being drunk.

"He was still giggling when they put him in the ambulance."

If that were true, than you should ask what else this person was on, because it wasnt THC. Any type of trauma or sudden shock like that actually stops all effects of intoxication - referred to in popular culture as "buzz kill". (reference: "From Chocolate to Morphine: Everything You Need to Know About Mind-Altering Drugs Andrew Weil, MD and Winifred Rosen 1983 Houghton-Mifflin Company). This odd chemical reaction is a physiological fact, although scientists have been unable to isolate the mechanism that allows THC to be "turned off" by the brain in an instant.

Marijuana can, however, become very serious when mixed with dangerous drugs like alcohol or pharmaceuticals. The THC molecule binds with alcohol and then transmits to much more powerful receptor. Same with opioids like Vicodin, Oxy or Darvacet.

Conversely, it can also be used in conjunction with opioids to increase their beneficial effects without using the extremely toxic additive acetaminophen, which destroys the human liver. This also reduces the needed dose of the opiate, which reduces risk of dependency.


What can be really dangerous is ignorance.
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Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 1259
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I dare to compare it.

Smoke pot, end up stupid, slow to react, and an unproductive member of society. That's why we do drug tests that keep pot smokers from working for our company.

Additionally, the organizations that are supported by pot$$ are the same dirt bags that have turned everything south of the border into a war zone.

If you want to medicate yourself, have a cocktail and support a good American booze corporation.

If you want cancer, have a smoke and support a good American tobacco company.

The coolness of pot wore off for most thinking Americans about 30 years ago.
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20043_stotter
Member
Username: 20043_stotter

Post Number: 850
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Irish, that was sure some rational post.
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20043_stotter
Member
Username: 20043_stotter

Post Number: 851
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Irish, that was sure some rational post.
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Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 2153
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 1:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

grumpy old lady, your story sounds like he was on more than just weed! I know some very smart,ambitious, successful people who are everyday smokers.
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Shadesofbleu
Member
Username: Shadesofbleu

Post Number: 18
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mauser is right! Chocolate alters perception, and is a drug in every sense of the word.

And another thing; have you ever given your toddler sugar? It winds them up and can make them not think about the things they just learned, like looking both ways before crossing a street or not talking to strangers. Child molesters are using candy to entice our children into sex acts for their next big fix.

We need to get soda and candy machines out of schools and daycare. We need to be fighting to get "impulse buys" of sugar away from registers where kids can see and beg for them from their parents. I would even go so far as an outright banning of refined sugar to children under sixteen. The stuff does nothing good for society. It's addictive, causes diabetes in children and adults, causes tooth decay, and costs the American people millions in dental bills and medical costs.

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