 
Zrx_doug
Member
Username: Zrx_doug
Post Number: 943
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 10:54 am: |    |
Actually, you guys sort of missed the point I was trying to make..I wasn't pointing a finger at AIG, but at the lawmakers who A) created an environment that made AIG possible, B) stood by with their thumbs up their ass while people in the know screamed warnings that the bubble was going to burst, C) played into public hysteria over bonus money which was guaranteed by legislation THEY passed.
Where's the outrage at the people in Washington who have been (and continue to) throw the "business" of running this country down the crapper?
I'm sorry..GM is NOT the root of all evil, but a very competitive company (look at their market share worldwide) in a shitty economy that was CAUSED by the very people who point fingers at GM.
In short, Washington has the gall to demand accountability from Detroit, but where is the accountability in Washington? |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1323
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:01 am: | |
Washington deserves a share of the blame but Washington didn't cause the banks to create the financial timebombs that they created, Washington didn't cause the investors to buy those financial timebombs, Washington didn't create the bonus contracts for AIG executives who blew up their own company and Washington didn't make many of the decisions made at the Big 3 that have led GM and Chrysler to where they are today. If there had been no housing bubble for the past 8 - 10 years, GM and Chrysler would have been in trouble years ago because much of the profits of the past 10 years have been from money flowing through the economy that was based entirely on credit and speculative real estate values. GM's problems didn't start with the current financial crises, they just exposed the rot and problems that had been papered over for years. |
Goat
Member
Username: Goat
Post Number: 2855
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:21 am: | |
He should have been turfed years ago. He hasn't done much of anything until now to really change GM. He also should have played hard ball with theunion and their glorious, over-inflated contracts. |
Raptor56
Member
Username: Raptor56
Post Number: 849
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:37 am: | |
So now that the Government is taking over majority shareholder stake in various banks, and is apparently begining to dictate what our auto companies can and cannot do, what are the odds that politicians can effectively run and set proper policies for these companies? Is the current economy the perfect storm for the advancement of socialist policies\ideals? What the effects be on you and me as the government gains more control? |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5472
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:48 am: | |
quote:WHAT? How could you say that? Health care is only like his top priority behind fixing the financial system, and the war in Iraq. Healthcare was the centerpiece of his presidential campaign, and the centerpiece of his first budget. He's now being accused by the Europeans and Canadians of playing protectionist, but fair trade isn't a priority?
He has not mentioned them with regard to the auto industry. Even in his remarks today he glossed right over everything beyond a cursory mention of the failures of leadership "stretching from Washington to Detroit." |
Zrx_doug
Member
Username: Zrx_doug
Post Number: 944
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:49 am: | |
Precisely, Raptor..I can't wait to trade my hard-chargin' Mopar in for the American equivilant of a Lada.
Friggin' politicians can't keep their own houses in order, who are they to decide how someone else's should be run?
(Message edited by ZRX_Doug on March 30, 2009) |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 2978
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:01 pm: | |
I hate to say I told you so, the government is now running the auto companies it loaned taxpayer money to. Socialism here we come, yeah.
GM is DOOMED with the rank amateurs with no auto experience calling the shots, what a dumbass.
100% guaranteed bankruptcy is just around the corner now.
President half white, (he's our president and is half white) who admittedly doesn't know too much about finance or the stock market, know is a genius about running an auto company.
I bet Wagoner is glad he is outside now he doesn't have to deal with the dumb shits in DC. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4659
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:05 pm: | |
quote:So now that the Government is taking over majority shareholder stake in various banks, and is apparently begining to dictate what our auto companies can and cannot do, what are the odds that politicians can effectively run and set proper policies for these companies? Is the current economy the perfect storm for the advancement of socialist policies\ideals? What the effects be on you and me as the government gains more control?
You know, this is a horseshit argument. Allow me to illustrate why with an analogy:
Let's say you have two teenagers whose parents exercise little in the way of disciplinary control. The parents do this in order to allow their kids to be "independent". The teenagers max out their credit cards, get into trouble with the law, and generally cause their parents grief and financial distress.
Now, the two teenagers are in a world of shit, and looking for Mommy and Daddy to save their sorry ass. The parents reluctantly agree, and along with this, decide to assert their parental responsibilities.
Now we have whiners who insist that the teenagers have every right to continue on their self-righteous path of destruction. Despite the fact that Mommy and Daddy extended a generous loan, they're not supposed to assert the parental responsibilities to ensure that their brats don't wreak havoc on the rest of the neighborhood.
You idiots who are shitting your pants over the government don't even realize that the government IS YOU. That's the saddest part of all. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5473
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:10 pm: | |
If it WAS US (at least here in Michigan) we wouldn't had to have dealt with GWB for eight years, nor would we be getting pissed on by a bunch of stupid Californians who think they're geniuses or have New Yorkers, DCers, and debtor states try to grab every fuckin' cent we earn. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1324
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:11 pm: | |
"So now that the Government is taking over majority shareholder stake in various banks, and is apparently begining to dictate what our auto companies can and cannot do, what are the odds that politicians can effectively run and set proper policies for these companies?"
As opposed to who? The current management and the current board of directors? Are we still in fairyland world where we pretend that everything is A-OK at the auto companies? |
Brg
Member
Username: Brg
Post Number: 74
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:13 pm: | |
Danindc, those who want to blame Obama are the ones who are hollering socialism. Just how much money should the government continue to dump into GM and Chrysler? There has to be an endgame here. Either come up with a plan or stand aside and let the companies fail. There is no third option. |
Alsodave
Member
Username: Alsodave
Post Number: 802
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:13 pm: | |
quote:President half white
brilliant.
quote:You idiots who are shitting your pants over the government don't even realize that the government IS YOU. That's the saddest part of all.
*Very* well said. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 818
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:19 pm: | |
First of all Raptor the President in his remarks today said that the government has no intention of running or taking over the auto industry and doesn't want to. The government is not taking control of the industry. It is setting conditions the companies must meet if they want bailout money. Just like if you wanted to start a business and you went to an investor or bank for financing. You would give them your business plan and they would either tear it up or give you the money based on how good and real that plan is,AND how comfortable they felt with your management team.
The plans were clearly inadequate if you read the links to the summaries by Obama'a auto team.
Some of you are putting Obama in a no-win situation
If he gives out money with no conditions and the companies tank then he didn't do his due diligence?
If he does nothing,then why didn't he do something?
If he gives out money with conditions then its a socialist govenment takeover of the auto industry
What you need to understand is that after years(going back to Reagan) of unregulated supply side capitalism our economy is out of balance. In order to bring things back into balance more government oversight is being required in certain areas but to equate this oversight with socialism is taking a mighty long leap. |
Goat
Member
Username: Goat
Post Number: 2858
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:25 pm: | |
I sure don't see the backlash in other countries in bailing our their auto companies.
Japan, Germany, France, GB (what is left of theirs), Korea and even China are bailing them out. But those of us in The USA and Canada scream about it.
Notice that Mexico hasn't done shit but still reaping the rewards? |
Brg
Member
Username: Brg
Post Number: 75
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:31 pm: | |
I like many others do not want to see the car companies tank. However, the car companies have to come back to reality. The well will dry up. As president, Barack Obama did the right thing today and put GM and Chrysler on notice. Either ship-up or ship-out. Free lunch is over. Wagoner should have lost his job. GM needs a new voice and Wagoner's voice was white noise. |
Gdub
Member
Username: Gdub
Post Number: 295
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 12:59 pm: | |
"First of all Raptor the President in his remarks today said that the government has no intention of running or taking over the auto industry and doesn't want to."
But it just feels so good to rant about the big, bad guvmint and blame them for everything from the collapse of civilization to the wife's bunion problem. Socialists! *burp* |
Stosh
Member
Username: Stosh
Post Number: 210
Registered: 01-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 1:10 pm: | |
Ask McCain what he would have done. Answer? Nothing. He is opposed to any help for the autos. So, I'm just happy that there is a slim glimmer of some sort of future for the auto sector right now. Can they do more, sure. There has to be some movement by the parties involved.
Lots of foot dragging going on by a lot of people right now. This announcement is designed to prod them on. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4660
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 1:27 pm: | |
Let's just hope this is the next step in a long-overdue turnaround for the Detroit automakers. I don't think they should be given access to unfettered amounts of cash, nor should the government be in the business of making cars. We do need to keep manufacturing alive and well in this country, though! |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 3553
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 2:15 pm: | |
Quote: "We do need to keep manufacturing alive and well in this country, though!"
Government oversight on the shop floor is not the way to do it. They need to address the trade situation. How many companies does the government plan on running? |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4663
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 2:24 pm: | |
quote:Government oversight on the shop floor is not the way to do it. They need to address the trade situation. How many companies does the government plan on running?
For those who just tuned in...
The federal government isn't RUNNING General Motors or Chrysler. Let's get that straight.
The federal government LOANED MONEY to General Motors and Chrysler. What they are doing is no different than what banks already do for small businesses who request loans.
Is this not clear??? |
Brg
Member
Username: Brg
Post Number: 78
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 2:29 pm: | |
"How many companies does the government plan on running?"
Why does everyone keep throwing out Republican talking points? This is simple math. These companies are borrowing billions of dollars and the gov't is suppose to stay in the background? Boo, it's socialism. The government is taking over businesses that comes to them with a tin cup. If I was a socialist running a socialist nation, I doubt that I would want to socialize failed businesses with zero growth. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 819
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 2:35 pm: | |
"Government oversight on the shop floor is not the way to do it. They need to address the trade situation. How many companies does the government plan on running?"
What gives you the idea after everything thats been said and read about the auto bailout today that the government intends on micro-managing the auto industry, I see it more as the government is trying to protect the taxpayers investment. People believe in what they want to believe in even if it flies in the face of what was actually said and the actual intentions of the speaker.
The second point about the trade situation is spot on, but how do you re-capture the horses after you left the barn door open |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1329
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 4:12 pm: | |
Reading this, it seems the real target for today's actions are the bondholders and to a lesser degree, the UAW. The 60 and 30 day deadlines seem directed at them as much as the companies themselves.
http://online.wsj.com/article/ SB123841609048669495.html |
Orange_barrel
Member
Username: Orange_barrel
Post Number: 99
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 9:18 pm: | |
I'm sure Wagoner is an nice guy, but what's all this silliness I hear about him "taking one for the team"? I mean, give me a break. We're not going to see him in line at a soup kitchen tomorrow. He's rich to begin with, and he's getting a golden parachute on top of that. He's going to be a-okay. The hard working men and women who will likely lose their jobs in the months ahead -- they're taking one for the team. Just saying. |
Crash_nyc
Member
Username: Crash_nyc
Post Number: 406
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 4:47 am: | |
Wagoner created and perpetuated a piss-poor business model that bled millions (if not billions) of dollars out of GM over the years. He's an arrogant ass who repeatedly refused to heed smart advice from those who knew better, and he just parachuted out with a $20 million pension package.
And the beat goes on... |
Xstigmatax
Member
Username: Xstigmatax
Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 6:44 am: | |
Socialism - Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
Perhaps all of you screaming that this is NOT socialism which the government is starting should look up the definition and start understanding.
The government is headed down this road, like it or not. It is just too bad there are so many ignorant people here. Thankfully most of the people who post here represent a very tiny minority of the population. Most people are really worried about the government going to far now into controlling private business.
Hopefully the president doesn't call up and have you fired next... |
Ongowwah
Member
Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 386
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 7:20 am: | |
Can someone name agency or program that the government has run that is efficient? Obama's solution? Form another committee and appoint yet another man with no business experience to a position in the auto industry to fix it.....Obama's stupid decision of time framing Chrysler really put Fiat in the catbird seat too. Lets see 30 days....I guess if I were Fiat I'd present a take it or leave it offer on say day 28 or 29..... |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1333
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 7:40 am: | |
"Perhaps all of you screaming that this is NOT socialism which the government is starting should look up the definition and start understanding. "
Perhaps you should pay attention to what's actually happening instead of repeating Rush's talking points. The government is not taking over either GM or Chrysler. Those 2 companies have asked and received billions of dollars in loans. In exchange for those loans, the government has put conditions on the loans. Don't like the conditions? Don't take the money. The government isn't acting any different than any other private lendor would act in that position. In the case of GM and Chrysler, the government isn't even getting an equity stake in the companies.
In the case of the banks, the government is actually taking an equity stake. But they aren't getting a controlling interest in those companies. Based on how those companies have been run, that's probably a mistake. But for anyone to claim that the government is taking over anything is fearmongering based on ignorance. |
Pffft
Member
Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1297
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 8:02 am: | |
Can someone name agency or program that the government has run that is efficient?
Social Security. Ask your parent or grandparent if the check is ever late. |
Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 6010
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 8:04 am: | |
We have the best and most efficient postal service in the world. Try two day standard delivery on mail in any other country.
Why do you right wingers hate America so much? |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4665
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 8:19 am: | |
quote:Perhaps all of you screaming that this is NOT socialism which the government is starting should look up the definition and start understanding.
You head off to your own little island, then, and tell us how prosperous you are when everyone else is out of work.
quote:Hopefully the president doesn't call up and have you fired next...
My company hasn't applied for billions of dollars in loans of public money.
Have you ever started a small business? I'm just wondering if you've ever had to go to the bank and request a business loan. I'm sure they just give you the money, no questions asked, no strings attached, right? I mean, business plans are just a waste of time. Who needs to do all that cumbersome thinking? The invisible hand will provide! |
Ongowwah
Member
Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 390
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 9:52 am: | |
Social Security is run just great according to you libs. That is of course until it's election time when you scare everyone that repubs are going to push it over the brink. How many times have politicians raided it? Where's the money at, why is it in danger of collapsing? Yeah run so great. Thousands of govt programs billions of dollars spent and you find two feeble programs to base your arguement on? Obama's never held a job outside of "community organizer", he appoints Ivy League eggheads with largely no practical experience for these boards, Congress has never built a car or doctored anyone but in their infinitesmal wisdom they can build a better car and a better health system.....yeesh! |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2140
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 9:57 am: | |
Hey, Ongowwah... gotta news bulletin for ya: Obama won, McCain lost. Again, Obama won. So... tough crap. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4667
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 10:00 am: | |
^^^QUICK! EVERYONE PANIC!!! The time for rational thought is over!
|
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 2034
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 10:07 am: | |
Wagoner put thousands out of work in the name of globalization while GM was still a profitable entity; which started GM on its downward spiral. Therefore and I am glad to see him ousted. It's just a shame that his position in life affords him the luxury of not having to try and live on the $362 / week he condemned so may to accept when their GM business unit, local pattern, die or design shop was closed in favor of the Mexican or Asian firms that he was so much in favor of awarding work too. |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 3558
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 10:28 am: | |
For those of you who know jackshit about business, when an outside concern, be it the Government or whomever, steps is and starts chopping heads, installs their own guys, they are indeed, running your business.
Call it what you want. What would Mr.Wagoner call it? The board should have asked him to step down, not an ambassador of the Government. This is socialism plain and simple.
When a company is no longer making it's own decisions in regard to it's officers, the products they build, they are no longer "running" it.
As I asked before, how many companies does the Government plan on running? |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4668
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 10:38 am: | |
quote:when an outside concern, be it the Government or whomever, steps is and starts chopping heads, installs their own guys, they are indeed, running your business.
Who did the government install at GM, exactly?
GM is indebted to the taxpayers of the United States. The government has the right to demand restructuring, seize assets, and force bankruptcy, if they damn well want to. GM is getting off easy, if you ask me.
quote:The board should have asked him to step down, not an ambassador of the Government.
The Board had YEARS to ask Wagoner to step down. They didn't. As it stands, the Board is gonna be told to take a hike as well. You know, because they've been so enormously profitable.
quote:This is socialism plain and simple.
The United States has a lien on General Motors and Chrysler--a lien that was initiated by GM and Chrysler, NOT the government.
Please go shit yourself somewhere else. We've had the past eight years to practice unaccountability for stupid-ass business practices.
Of course, I love this quote:
quote:For those of you who know jackshit about business
You mean like our Harvard MBA ex-President Bush? He knows a lot about business, right? |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 3559
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 10:41 am: | |
Quote: "Wagoner put thousands out of work in the name of globalization while GM"
Cambrian, I'm all for keeping things domestically produced. But it's a case of "When in Rome". While all of their competitors, suppliers and even customers are on the China teat, how long would GM have lasted otherwise? And the double whammy is the staggering labor costs GM has to endure and offset compared to their competition. They are on the brink of bankruptcy? It's no surprise. And it is no one person's fault. |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 3560
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 11:08 am: | |
Quote: "Who did the government install at GM, exactly?"
DaninDC, Try reading a little before you come to the table with the grown-ups.
""If a new G.M. emerges, it is likely to be a company that trims health care for retirees, has the U.A.W. and former bondholders as its biggest shareholders, and is run by executives and a board chosen by the White House.""
http://finance.yahoo.com/loans /article/106832/US-Sees-a-Smal ler-Future-for-GM-Than-GM-Does ?sec=topStories&pos=7&asset=TB D&ccode=TBD |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 2035
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 11:36 am: | |
There are lots of companies that resisted the temptations of easy bonuses and inflated stock that NAFTA promised and they are healthier today for it. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4669
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 11:39 am: | |
quote:""If a new G.M. emerges, it is likely to be a company that trims health care for retirees, has the U.A.W. and former bondholders as its biggest shareholders, and is run by executives and a board chosen by the White House.""
Well, as any fifth grader will tell you, "if" and "likely" are conditional terms. That hasn't happened yet, has it? There's no sense crapping your pants about it.
GM had a chance to retain autonomy. They failed. GM sought a loan, for which they were approved, and now have to meet the conditions of the loan. Is any part of this unreasonable so far?
The truth is, if the federal government has to guide GM through a structured bankruptcy, the government will appoint a new board and CEO. I don't see how this would be different from any other bankruptcy case, though. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 1335
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 11:39 am: | |
That was GM's choice. They didn't have to take government financing. What was your alternative? Give them the loans with no accountability? |
Brg
Member
Username: Brg
Post Number: 82
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 12:26 pm: | |
"The government is headed down this road, like it or not. It is just too bad there are so many ignorant people here. Thankfully most of the people who post here represent a very tiny minority of the population. Most people are really worried about the government going to far now into controlling private business."
This sounds like something Boss Limbaugh would shit out his mouth. The chicken littles want to cry socialism everytime Obama does something they don't like. After Bush, I suppose every President after him is suppose to keep his hands in his pocket and do nothing.
Look the President nor the scary government came to Detroit looking to give GM or Chrysler billions of dollars. They went to Washington with beggar cups extended out. The government is suppose to give this auto makers billions on top of billions and not have a say. Someone wake me up because I think I am in BizarroWorld. |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 3563
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 12:42 pm: | |
""The government is suppose to give this auto makers billions on top of billions and not have a say. Someone wake me up because I think I am in BizarroWorld.""
No, You're just picking and choosing. Where is your outrage over the banks receiving close to a Trillion with practically no conditions or oversight? Why are you libs only concerned how the Big 3 handle our money? |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4671
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 12:47 pm: | |
quote:Where is your outrage over the banks receiving close to a Trillion with practically no conditions or oversight?
Why do you think people aren't outraged over the neatly-wrapped TARP gift that Bushcorp ill-negotiated with Wall Street? Now who's picking-and-choosing?
quote:According to a CNN poll released Tuesday, there is also almost no support for another round of assistance to banks that are in trouble. Roughly four in 10 would prefer to see some banks completely taken over by the federal government, and another four in 10 are in favor of letting banks fail if they are in trouble.
Although Obama's approval ratings are still high, another poll suggests that he's losing luster as anger over the bailouts grow.
According to a Pew Research Center poll out Monday, 87 percent of Americans are bothered by the bank bailout. The same poll showed Obama's support at 59 percent, 5 points lower than last month.
http://us.cnn.com/2009/POLITIC S/03/17/obama.aig/index.html |
_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_
Post Number: 1757
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 12:51 pm: | |
They can not be compared so stop trying.
quote:There are lots of companies that resisted the temptations of easy bonuses and inflated stock that NAFTA promised and they are healthier today for it.
And if the UAW would have better managed their predictions and demands many of those jobs would not have been shipped overseas to account for over-inflated wages and benefits. And if management would have better managed the market they would have stopped making short term decisions. No one is blameless except the consumers.
(Message edited by _sj_ on March 31, 2009) |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 2151
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 1:11 pm: | |
"Where is your outrage over the banks receiving close to a Trillion with practically no conditions or oversight?"
Actually, I AM pretty damn outraged about that, but that hasn't been the topic here.
Agreed, the banks and financial institutions should have been held to a higher degree of accountability. There is a disparity there between the conditions on the loans to the banks and the conditions given to the automakers, and it isn't right. |
Oladub
Member
Username: Oladub
Post Number: 1355
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 2:01 pm: | |
I suspect that the Rick Wagoner firing was intended to put corporate America on notice that it has a new master. Hugo Chavez must be taking notes. Wall Street reacted to the President's auto speech by declining 254 points yesterday.
The Oldsmobile is gone. Saturn and Pontiac are next. Who cares? At next year's Detroit Auto Show word has it that GM's new CEO, Jesse Jackson or whomever else the administration appoints, is going to unveil the new Obamobile. It will seat five, get better gas mileage, and be designed by Porsche.
"It sounds like 'deja vu' all over again" -Yogi Berra |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 3565
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 2:22 pm: | |
Jesse Jackson.. LOL |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4672
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 2:25 pm: | |
I'd rather have Jesse Jackson running GM than Mike "Arabian Horse Show" Brown running FEMA.
I'm just sayin. |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 2036
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 3:39 pm: | |
"And if the UAW would have better managed their predictions and demands....."
Funny how since the UAW has been part of GM since 1937 GM has never lost money like they have with Wagoner running the show and you still feel they are the root cause of the company's problems. |
Brg
Member
Username: Brg
Post Number: 83
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 4:20 pm: | |
"No, You're just picking and choosing. Where is your outrage over the banks receiving close to a Trillion with practically no conditions or oversight? Why are you libs only concerned how the Big 3 handle our money?"
I have been outraged for the last eight years. The greed of these capitalists that Republicans are trying to protect and defend are the one that led America to where we are today. Bankers are the worst. I believe in letting banks fail because they are just sitting on the money and balancing their books rather than giving out loans. Yes, I'm outraged. |
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