Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism
Post Number: 288 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.209.155.236
| Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 10:29 pm: | |
Many of the business leaders, entertainment celebrities, sports figures and other influential individuals are residing in these 2 areas. Please share your thoughts in regards to the major similarities and differences in your own experiences about the wealthy and powerful residents of Grosse Pointe and of Bloomfield Hills. Other avenues of characteristics such as the history of these neighborhoods, the architectures, the real estate values and etc. are also welcomed. |
Treelock Member Username: Treelock
Post Number: 68 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 67.149.59.223
| Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 10:58 pm: | |
Very apropos thread considering your posting name, Darwinism. Having once lived in GP, I'd point out one huge, obvious difference, which is that that area is far more pedestrian friendly than Bloomfield Hills. And While you get your share of shiesters in both burgs, I might venture to say GPers are perhaps slightly more down-to-earth creatures. Perhaps this is due to its location smack alongside the economic devastation of Detroit's east side. Bloominghammers can literally stay firmly ensconced within their little oasis and never have to acknowledge the existence of the underclass. GP is a little more isolated. I mean, to get to Somerset many of them have to pass through the ghetto! |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 1072 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 12:29 am: | |
GP: better location, architecture, schools, lakefront. The biggest difference: one community has some degree of urbanism and the other "community" doesn't. Alright I'm taking my swipes but you know about me. These days, I wouldn't hesitate to say that more of metro Detroit's movers and shakers live in Bloomfield. Professionals new to the area are also steered to the OC, and it doesn't help that most of their places of employment are in Troy, Southfield, or beyond. Detroit and it's old mainstay commutter suburb don't even come to most people's mind. Still, GP has the most impressive luxury home districts in Michigan, whether it be Windmill Pointe, Kercheval to Jefferson in GPC and GPP, Beverly/McKinley Pl in GPF, the Ridge Rd/GP Blvd. vicinity in the Farms...and parts of Lakeshore. Each of the Grosse Pointes have large middle class areas with fairly modest houses, let's not forget. These neighborhoods, especially in the Farms, City, and Park, are much more cohesive with more beautiful homes than the comparable areas in Bloomfield. GP still has some impressive names, and some of Detroit's better attorneys, doctors, businesspeople and entrepreneurs. There are still Fords, Van Elslander, media personalities, etc. GP's woes include now under-funded schools and stagnant home values (imagine a waterfront commuter suburb of Chicago or NY having this problem). Take your pick. My take is that the better community is at a disadvantage, at least for now, in terms of attracting the movers and shakers, but that surely doesn't tell the whole story. |
Treelock Member Username: Treelock
Post Number: 69 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 67.149.59.223
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 12:42 am: | |
The Grosse Pointes also seriously lack for good dining options. And there's positively nothing late night. Over there it's mostly country/yacht clubs, Italian, or a long drive. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 1073 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 1:07 am: | |
It's not a long drive to downtown Detroit. There is plenty of good dining on Mack and Kercheval in all the Pointes but the Shores. From The Hill (GPF) or Andiamo in GPW to more humble, down-home sorts of places like Janet's Lunch in GPP. And to repeat, being 10-20 minutes from downtown opens up a whole new world of dining options. GP also has a lot of distinctive small businesses that keep the community flair. |
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa
Post Number: 585 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.77
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 11:53 am: | |
Old Money v. New Money |
Northend Member Username: Northend
Post Number: 527 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 69.217.229.122
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 12:01 pm: | |
Lincoln v. Mercedes |
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism
Post Number: 289 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.215.30.34
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 1:37 pm: | |
According to this thread; https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/61255.html?1134600344 as many as 3 NFL owners reside in Grosse Pointe. That is quite a compliment to the influence, prominence and wealth. I am confident there are NBA owners, NHL owners or MLB owners in the Bloomfield Hills area at some point in time. Perhaps it is a testament to both communities in terms of the type of makers and shakers in Metro Detroit. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 1075 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 3:16 pm: | |
Yeah, and now Chris Webber lives in GP, in one of my favorite houses, off Jefferson on the lake in eastern GPP. The trend for fresh money, such as most athletes, is certainly to Oakland County. I'm fairly confident that's where the Tigers and Lions take high profile players for tours of the area. It was documented in the paper for Percival, and I'm guessing they did the same for Rogers, because he commented in the News that "the areas outside Detroit are really nice." He better be damn good or else.... But you know, this is probably what most newcomers to the area think, people who are recruited out of college to work here...even if their jobsite is in Detroit perchance, they'll probably be given assurances that things aren't that bad here, you can live in Bloomfield. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 6225 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 4.229.99.156
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 3:57 pm: | |
quote:Lincoln v. Mercedes
Paid off v. mortgaged to the nines |
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000
Post Number: 60 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 66.238.130.148
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 4:51 pm: | |
Are you comparing Bloomfield Township or the City of Bloomfield Hills? The latter is quite relatively small and exclusive. According to Wikipedia, "Bloomfield Hills is the fourth richest city in the United States with more than 1,000 households. It is the richest city outside of California or Florida." And it includes Cranbrook. |
Jelk
Member Username: Jelk
Post Number: 3664 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.217.119.161
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 5:04 pm: | |
Why does everyone think Grosse Pointers are so rich? When I lived there we couldn't afford to wear socks in the summer. Most of my neighbors were the same way. |
Keystone Member Username: Keystone
Post Number: 208 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.241.158.33
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 6:35 pm: | |
Draw a 5 mile circle around each and count the rooftops. For the Grosse Pointes, half of the circle is in the water, and a big chunk is over a blighted area of Detroit. There just isn't enough people to justify much retail or restaurant activity. And, the few golf/yacht clubs suck up a lot of the 'entertainment' dollars with monthly minimums. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 1076 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 8:20 pm: | |
GP is way more dense than anything in the Bloomfield area, and when added up, there is an impressive population. Grosse Pointe Park: 12,443 people, 4,816 households...density: 5,772.6/sq. mile. Dense urban residential along the western border, Indian Village style residential with some very spread out streets like Three Mile. Interesting retail, dining, and markets on all thoroughfares leading into Detroit north of Jefferson, minus St. Paul. City of Grosse Pointe: 5,670 people, 2,388 households...5,297.9/sq. mile. (GP City is only a mile wide and .75 to 1.25 miles north to south.) It contains the "Village" shopping district on Kercheval, and is the downtown for all of GPs. The village is surrounded by some of GPs most modest old homes, similar in alot of ways to Ann Arbor I say. Grosse Pointe Farms: 9,764 people, 3,804 households...density: 3619/sq. mile. Has a little retail but mostly dining and office on "The Hill", and residential offerings range from dense middle class near the post office at Warren/Mack to estate districts like Beverly, Cloverly, Vendome. GP Woods: 17,080 people, 6,531 households...5,237.3/sq. mile. More people, more area...mostly post WWII homes, the 1950s version of the American dream. Only retail is along Mack. GP Shores: 2,823 people, 1,058 households...2,470.6/sq. miles. Basically the king-sized GP Woods, but some older huge residences along Lakeshore Dr. Partially in SE Macomb County. -------- City of Bloomfield Hills: 3,940 people, 1,520 households...density: 796.4/sq. mile. Whoa! Bloomfield Township: 43,023 people, 16,804 households...density: 699.7/sq. mile. Big whoa! I won't even go into West Bloomfield, but it is a MEGA township with something like 60,000 in population and a similar density to the other Bloomfields. --------- So the fairest comparison is between B- Township and the City of B-Hills v. all of the GPs. Population: about 48,000 for the GPs v. about 47,000 for the Bloomfields. But CHECK OUT THE DENSITIES. It is staggering. GP makes a strong case as an urban style suburb, heck, the average lot is 40-60 feet wide in GP. That's why the five mile circle idea doesn't work, very simply put. And if you draw that circle, you see that for some of GP you are already half way downtown with that circle, putting downtown, again I say, much closer to the center of the GP world than the center of the Bloomfield world. The Bloomfields, West Township included, are 85-90 percent white. The GPs are 90 to 97 percent white. So we're not talking about a huge difference in diversity between the two. And where Bloomfield has a large Jewish population, the Grosse Pointes have a decent sized Mediterranean/Balkans population, especially the west Park. |
Jasoncw Member Username: Jasoncw
Post Number: 62 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 67.149.141.170
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 10:38 pm: | |
"GP makes a strong case as an urban style suburb" I agree. Why are there so many Grosse Pointes instead of just one? "When I lived there we couldn't afford to wear socks in the summer." LOL, so that's why no one wears socks, but then why do Grosse Pointers wear socks with sandals? :D |
Dsmith Member Username: Dsmith
Post Number: 78 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 68.41.202.23
| Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 10:39 pm: | |
For the posters that are debating the 'urbanness' of each of these areas you need to remember that Birmingham is the 'urban core' of the Bloomfields. An accurate grouping of the wealthy Oakland county cities would be 48302 (Bloomfield Twp), 48304 (Bloomfield Hills), 48009 (Birmingham) and 48025 (Franklin/Bingham Farms). Basically the Telegraph-Woodward corridor from Orchard Lake to 12 mile. Many of the 'Lakes Area' residents (Orchard Lake, Sylvan Lake, West Bllomfield) also identify with this area. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 1077 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94
| Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 12:34 am: | |
Right, Birmingham, like Pontiac and Mt. Clemens, is a fairly old settlement with tons of new growth around it. Nonetheless, it's hard to quarrel with the population density numbers of the Grosse Pointes. Jasoncw, great question. Grosse Pointe had two or three stages of development, but certainly not five. I think the oldest three, which are very cohesive and about the same age, may have been planned to be three different districts. We'd have to ask a historian. |
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026
Post Number: 265 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.10.63.140
| Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 12:37 am: | |
The Pointes are more urban the Bloomfield Hills...the differences that that factor make are numerous, and are really the main differences between the two |
Cozmikdebris Member Username: Cozmikdebris
Post Number: 78 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.153.177
| Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 5:16 pm: | |
quote:Many of the 'Lakes Area' residents (Orchard Lake, Sylvan Lake, West Bloomfield) also identify with this area.
Speaking of lakes, what about Lake Angelus? I've heard it's also terribly exclusive, with very expensive homes. Anyone know anything about this village, or know someone who lives there? (Message edited by cozmikdebris on December 17, 2005) |
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 2779 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197
| Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 5:21 pm: | |
I think SusanaRosa hit the nail right on the head. It's New Money vs. Old Money, and which one you happen to prefer if any at all. |
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa
Post Number: 587 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.229.125.80
| Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 8:15 pm: | |
My best friend in High School grew up on Lake Angelus. That was some serious money. Now it's a lot more built up and not as exclusive, still expensive though. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 1621 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.6.210
| Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 10:00 pm: | |
.... and with old money, lots of it is in trust funds, etc. So although a Bloomfielder may make more money than a Grosse Pointer, they also probably have more bills to pay, since the old money folks have their mortgages paid off. Also, there is a growing restaurant district in St. Clair Shores between 9 & 10 Mile Rd, known as the Nautical Mile. It includes an Andiamos, a Fishbones, Jefferson Beach Grille, and lots of other options on or near the water. That spot is just a 5-10 minute drive for most Grosse Pointers. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 1078 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94
| Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 10:11 pm: | |
It's growing...but it's always been pretty good. Some GP-ers are really into it, and some pretend it's not there. I really like Jack's on the lake. Andiamo's really has this part of town covered...Jefferson at 9, Mack below 8, Ren Cen. |
The_rock Member Username: The_rock
Post Number: 999 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.251.225
| Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 10:41 pm: | |
Several favorite watering holes have been mentioned in the above posts, but many GPers dine at Bucci Ristorante in the 20000 block of Mack Ave in the Woods. They don't advertise in "The little Blue Book" and they don't have a liquor license, but their food is out of this world. Word of mouth has put this little gem on the map. |
Dream Member Username: Dream
Post Number: 113 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.143.133.82
| Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 3:52 pm: | |
Bloomfield Hills Positives: -large lots -privacy -green spaces & rolling terrain -many small all sports lakes -newer construction -abundant luxury retail nearby at Birmingham & Somerset Collection -large variety of restaurants & retail -excellent public & private schools -great private clubs & golf courses -Cranbrook Negatives: -not a walkable community -limited supply of pre 1930s mansions -if you own a yacht you have to dock it on the east side -much of the newer construction is uninspiring -prestige factor: outside of Michigan very few people have heard of Bloomfield Hills Grosse Pointe Positives: -Stunning collection of pre 1940 homes (Similar to parts of Detroit, including downtown, many of the existing homes were built during 1910 -1930 when Detroit was booming and some of the finest architects were engaged to create architectural masterpieces with little expense spared) -while many areas have an affluent community with some great old houses, the sheer size of Grosse Pointe is unique. One can literally walk for hours viewing the great architecture. -Lake St. Clare -a very walkable community, when the weather is nice the streets are filled with runners, walkers and bikers -proximity to Detroit -diverse housing stock ranging from charming bungalows to lake front estates helps provide for a more economically diverse community -has an urban/historic feel -3 charming shopping districts which include some historic buildings: - the Village, the Hill, Kercheval in the Park -national reputation as one of the country’s finest affluent communities -excellent municipal lake front parks -excellent public & private schools -mature trees and 1920s architecture give the area a well worn comfortable feel -home to some of the nations most highly regarded private clubs such as the GP Yacht Club, GP Club “Little Club”, CC of Detroit and GP Hunt Club - name recognition: has been the focus or feature of at least 2 movies, many books and even a TV series. -Grosse Pointe War Memorial -Edsel & Eleanor Ford House Negatives: -small lots, especially for luxury homes -lack of privacy for the well known (except for Provencal Road, all streets are easily open to the public with most houses fairly close to the sidewalk) -very little room for new construction -large pre 1940 homes require much greater maintenance and many in need of renovation/updating -limited national retail -still perceived by some as a snobbish community Sample of current “mover & shaker” residents: Bloomfield Hills William Davidson - Billionaire - Guardian Industries - Detroit Pistons -Detroit Shock -Tampa Bay Lightning A. Alfred Taubman Robert T. Taubman - CEO/Taubman Centers Roger Penske - Penske Automotive Terry Adderley - Kelly Services Eugene Applebaum - Arbor Drugs William F. Pickard - Regal Plastics Richard Dauch - Amrican Axle & Gear Anthony F. Earley, Jr. -CEO/DTE Robert J. Eaton Gary Cowger -GM John Devine -GM Irma Elder - Car Dealer - Elder Ford/Jaguar David Handleman -Handleman Company John Rakolta (Terry) - Walbridge & Aldinger David Fischer - Car Dealer - Suburban Collection Marilyn Kelly - MI Supreme Court justice Geoffrey Nels Fieger - Attorney Henry Baskin - Attorney Eugene Hagopian Thomas Celani - Casinos Richaed Golden -DOC J. T. Battenberg - Delphi Automotive Wayne Cherry -famed auto designer Kenneth Whipple - COB - CMS Energy Anton Letica -Letical Corp. Grosse Pointe William Clay Ford (Martha Firestone) GPS - Billionaire - Detroit Lions Richard Manoogian GPF - Billionaire - MASCO Manuel J. “Matty” Moroun GPS - unconfirmed net worth of over $600 million per Forbes -owns the Ambassador Bridge, 5% of Detroit-Windsor Tunnel -owns CenTra Inc. - fifth largest private trucking company in US - owns portion of Citizens Bank, owns an insurance company and large parcels of land in southwest Detroit including Michigan Central Depot Elena A. Ford (Joseph D. Rippolone) GPF - Elena is Director of Ford’s North American product marketing, planning & strategy - great great granddaughter of Henry Ford - daughter of Stavros Niarchos & Charlotte Ford Archie Arthur Van Elslander GPS -Art Van Furniture -4th largest furniture retailer in the U.S. John A. Boll, Sr. (Marlene) GPS - Chateau Communities, Inc. - Publicly traded on NYSE as CPJ, operates as a REIT -owns 212+ manufactured home sites (70,000+ homes) and 1,400+ park model/RV sites -operates in 36 states - helped fund new downtown YMCA Ralph C. Wilson, Jr. GPS -Buffalo Bills -insurance -Ralph C. Wilson Enterprises - diversified management and investment company with interests ranging from highway construction to venture capital to ownership of 2 TV stations and construction co. in Denver Paul D. Alandt (Lynn McNaughton Ford) GPS - Car Dealer - Lynn is the daughter of the late Benson Ford Edsel Bryant Ford, II (Cynthia Layne Neskow) GPF - Ford heir - great grandson of Henry Ford - CEO/President - Pentastar Aviation Anthony L. Soave GPF -former owner of City Management Corp, -sold company in 1997 for $780 million Robert G. Liggett, Jr GPS -Elias Bros. Restaurants Inc. owner of “Big Boy” restaurants John W. Stroh, III GPF - Stroh Companies, Inc. James B. Nicholson GPF - PVS Chemicals Inc. Maurice M. Taylor GPF - Titan Wheel International, Inc. -world's largest producer of wheels for off-road vehicles -1996 Republican Presidential Candidate Michael J. Malik GPS -casinos Anita Baker GPC (Walter Bridgforth, Jr.) - Anita - famed singer, second most Grammys won by a female artist after Aretha Franklin - Walter Bridgforth, Jr. - WBBJ Investment Co./Developer Keith E. Crain GPC - Crain Communications Gretchen Carhartt Valade GPF -Carhartt Inc. heiress - Mack Avenue Records -recent $10m donation to Detroit Jazz Festival Mark R. Valade GPF - son of Gretchen Carhartt Valade - CEO & President/Carhartt, Inc. Ted Gatzaros GPP Dimitrius “James” Papas GPS -developers and former business partners in 2000 sold interest in Greektown Casino for $212 million Nico Gatzaros GPC Cullan F. Meathe GPF - Metro Cars, Inc. Atanas Ilitch GPF - Olympia Development Thomas Lee Schoenith GPC - The Roostertail Todd V. Callewaert GPF - Owner/Island House Hotel on Mackinaw Island and Rybas Fudge Shops Joseph P. Kaiser GPF - Gallagher-Kaiser Corp. Robert S. Kaiser GPP - President/Gallagher- Kaiser Corp Edward K. Christian GPF -Saga Communications Inc. -radio broadcast co. which owns 13 FM & 8 AM radio stations Peter A. Schweitzer GPF -Chairman/ J. Walter Thompson Co. -former CEO/President of J. Walter Thompson Co. Richard S. Crawford GPF -The Crawford Group, LLC Alfred R. Glancy, III GPF Matthew P. Cullen GPS - GM James E. Brock, Jr. GPF - Middleton Moldings Kirk H. Gibson GPF Richard Golden GPP -Golden Form Inc. John M. Olson GPF - JM Olson Co. Anthony J. Selvaggio GPF Chester “Chet” A. Huber GPF -President - OnStar Corporation Robert E. Marowske GPF -Flame Furnace Co. (founder & CEO) -MI's largest heating & cooling contractor Mathew J. Moroun GPF - Vice Chairman/CenTra Inc. William P. Vititoe GPC - Director/Comerica Jack Perlmutter GPF - famed interior designer/Perlmutter-Friewald, Inc. Daniel Clancy GPF - famed interior designer/Perlmuter-Friewald, Inc. Dexter Joseph “DJ” Kennedy GPC - famed interior designer Dominic C. Pangborn GPS -Pangborn Designs -best known for ties William C. Rands III GPC -Rands Investment Co. -Sagres Partners, LLP James Randolph Agley GPP - Talon Inc. Gebran S. Anton GPC -Anton, Zorn & Associattes -commercial & industrial real estate brokerage -helped redevelop downtown Mount Clemens William F. Coyro, Jr. GPP -National TechTeam Inc. Robert E. McCabe GPW - retired President of Detroit Renaissancee (71-93) - helped start the Detroit Grand Prix, Montreaux Detroit Jazz Festival, assisted in creation of Hart Plaza, completion of Renaissance Center -Detroit News - 1982 Michiganian of the Year Mariam C. Noland GPF - President/Community Foundation for Southeastern MI Thomas R. Andris GPP -Arrow Uniform Co. Roger Fridholm GPP - Of Counsel Enterprises, Inc. Paul J. Stanford GPP -Car Dealer/Les Stanford Chevrolet Kenneth G. Meade GPP - Car Dealer -The Meade Group Inc. -Meade Lexus-Lamborghini, Pointe Dodge, Champion Chrysler, Cars & Cars Inc. Gordon L. Stewart GPS -Car Dealer Joseph Ricci GPF - Car Dealer Arthur J. Roshak GPF -Car Dealer Maura D. Corrigan GPP - Chief Justice of MI Supreme Court Robert P. Young, Jr. GPP - MI Supreme Court Justice John P. Jacobs GPF - Attorney - appellate defense attorney - referred to as “The Anti-Fieger” - has defeated Geoff Fieger in 12 out of 13 appeals Edward Irving Book GPS Herbert V. Book, Jr. GPC John Lord Booth II (Rebecca) GPS Ralph Harmon Booth II -Booth American Co. Louise C. Booth GPF Cynthia Book Bowen GPF Kevin P. Broderick GPF Wilber Marion Brucker, Jr. GPF Thomas Christian Buhl (Lindsay Zeder Ford) GPF - Thomas: - son of Lawrence D. Buhl, Jr. - Lindsey - great-great-granddaughter of Henry Ford Thomas Campau, Jr. GPC William R. Chapin GPC Frank Couzens III GPF C. Howard Crane, II GPF -heir of famed architect Timothy M. Crowley GPP Mary Anne Dodge Donaher - Dodge heir Peter Anthony Dow GPF Lawrence DuMouchelle GPF Charles Thomas Fisher III GPF -Fisher Body heir -former CEO of NBD Alfred J. Fisher, Jr. GPS -Fisher Body heir Alfred J. Fisher III GPF -Fisher Body heir -President/Fisher & Co. Michael R. Fisher GPF -Fisher Body heir -Fisher & Co. Walter Briggs Fisher GPF John Battice Ford, III GPF Walter Buhl Ford, III GPS Emory Moran Ford, Jr. (Anne Virginia Fisher) GPF Harvey C. Fruehauf, Jr. GPF H. Richard Fruehauf, Jr. GPF -HRF Resources, Inc. -Fruehauf Trucking H. Richard Fruehauf, III GPF Christopher Gamble GPF Stephanie Germack GPF - Germack Pistachio Company Hugo Scherer Higbie (Marion Chapin) GPF - Higbie Maxon Agney George M. Holley, Jr. GPS Arthur B. Hudson GPF Gilbert Hudson GPC Joseph Lowthian “JL” Hudson, Jr. GPF Robert Jewett GPF James Thayer McMillan III GPF -Ferndale Laboratories Jeffrey J. Palms GPC Robert J. Petz, Jr. GPF - Dodge heir Richard Booth Platt GPF -Proform Automotive Edward Charles Roney, Jr. (Eleanor M. Couzens) GPF Frank J. Roney GPF John Stephen Scherer GPF - R. P. Scherer heir -pharmaceuticals/inventor of gell cap Joseph A. Simon GPF Peter R. Stroh GPP Pierre A. Stroh GPF Whitney W. Stroh GPF David J. Woodward GPC Barbara Wrigley GPF George A. Wrigley GPF Bob Allen GPF - Web General Manager/Crains Detroit Business Scott Lewis GPP - Reporter/Fox Ch. 2 Leon D. Mandel, IV -Autoweek Nancy Nall GPW - Writer Michael Novak GPS - VP Brass Ring Productions - Attorney Devin G. Scillian GPP -WDIV Ch. 4 News Anchor Paul W. Smith GPP - Radio personality/WJR -760 AM John E. Smyntek GPF - Writer Pete Waldmeir GPW - Writer and in conclusion.... Dr. Bader J. Cassin GPF Dr. Ljubisa J. Dragovic GPF -Oakland County’s Chief Medical Examiner since 1991 Dr. Werner U. Spitz GPS Dr. Daniel J. Spitz GPF |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 1081 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94
| Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 4:24 pm: | |
Paul W. has a fine house on Bishop. I'll also add Henry Ford Hospital System Pres. Gail Warden who lives on Washington at Jefferson unless I'm mistaken. And tons and tons of well reputed attornies, doctors, and other professionals. Great info, Dream! I agree with your take on the two communities overall. While GP largely has moderate size lots, (usually 40-60 ft. by 80-200 ft. north of kercheval and 50-100 ft. by 100-200 ft. south of Kercheval), there are plenty of exceptions. A person looking for a more suburban or estate style lot can usually find one, even in the more urban and older GPs. I grew up on a 50' wide but 280 foot deep lot in GPC. If you're familiar with the area you can guess what street this is. The super-rich can also have huge lots on the order of 200 by 200 or even more along the Ridge and GP Blvd. corridors in GPF, and on streets like Buckingham, Devonshire, Three Mile, Windmill Pointe Drive. It is a shame though that so much of the lakefront and near-lakefront properties, especially in the city and farms, have been divied up for subdivisions. Do you have a favorite area of GP, Dream? I'll take Three Mile or lower Berkshire in Park, Washington in the City, or Touraine in the Farms. The 5 westernmost streets in the Park get big votes from me for livable and diverse urbanism...what Detroit needs to regain more of. |
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 2247 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 70.225.112.1
| Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 4:32 pm: | |
If I was an urban planner, I would build single-lot homes since Detroit is known for having high home ownership rates. Near the corners of every street corner I would construct three-story tall apartments/condos to shade the streets and homes and possibly attract businesses to the busier streets. The goal is to create a pedestrian-friendly urban environment while at the same time make the city look and feel suburban. (Message edited by ltorivia485 on December 19, 2005) |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 1631 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.28
| Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 5:02 pm: | |
Mackinaw, you forgot Kenwood in the Farms.... The Farms is my favorite of the GP's (the only hilly spot on the east side). I love the names of streets in the Farms..... Vendome, Tonnacour, Touraine.... With my 83 year old mother living near St. John Hospital, and me living near 11 Mile in SCS, it gives me an opportunity to take the lakeshore (and back roads of the Shores/Farms) route there a few times a week. An inspiring drive indeed! (Message edited by gistok on December 19, 2005) |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 1082 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94
| Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 5:29 pm: | |
You know, Kenwood (from Kercheval to GP Blvd.) might actually be better than Touraine. GP Farms has some incredible houses through it's core but the 1950s buildup just east of Brownell Middle school and the subdivisions that have taken over the bluff btw. GP Blvd. and Lakeshore are a turnoff for me. You're right though, the hill makes things interesting and there are some awesome streets. |
Newbie Member Username: Newbie
Post Number: 16 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 65.24.198.179
| Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 7:25 pm: | |
Personally if I was a high paid athlete I would pick GP to live since you could get a nice house on the water. That would be the ultimate privacy...nobody in the backyard and neighbors only on the sides. Most of the lots on Windmill Pointe Drive are nice and wide. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 1083 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94
| Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 11:56 pm: | |
Agreed. If I ever made serious money this is the place where it would be spent. |
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy
Post Number: 2095 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 207.200.116.134
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 1:03 am: | |
Dream, a few points....One, you only scratched the surface on notable Bloomfield/Birmingham area residents...Two, the north wins hands down in terms of schools...Three, you're dead wrong on your prestige factor. BH is as well, if not somewhat better, known outside of Michigan, than GP. Another bonus I would throw in would be proximity to Woodward. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 1085 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 4:07 am: | |
GP Park is closer to Woodward than many parts of West Bloomfield (I measured the distance from Drake or Haggerty directly to Woodward, and it was further than from the middle of GP Park to Woodward). Most of Woodward between Birmingham and Royal Oak is pretty po-dunk if you don't mind my saying, a pretty average suburban divided highway. Please contribute to Dream's extensive list. The public schools are both excellent, but both are taking hits thanks to prop A amd the end of local control. GP has nicer school buildings though. Both towns have well known private schools. Here's a measure of prestige: inland lake or Great Lake (alright Great Lakes system).? (Message edited by mackinaw on December 20, 2005) |
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field
Post Number: 447 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 209.240.205.61
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 11:38 am: | |
There is a home that is so freaking huge it blows all other private residences that I've seen in the Pointes out of the water. It is in the Shores on the Lake side of Lakeshore Dr. The exterior is some kind of gray stone, very expensive looking. The home reminds me of a castle, with turrets and must be a good 40-50 ft. in height. I'd say it is at least 20,000 sq feet, but since the home is set back from the road a slight distance and one can't sit and gawk at it for long without disrupting traffic on Lakeshore, I could be off, but it is very large. Does anyone know what home I'm speaking of and any details about it? I could be off base on the description, since it's been years since I've been in the Pointes. This home commands your attention and screams "a billionaire lives here". I know it isn't the Ford estate, I'm 99% sure it is a private residence. As far as BH being the fourth richest in the nation, I don't think that is accurate anymore. There are a lot of ways to define a communities wealth, by real estate values or income, but by either measure I think Bloomfield Hills has fallen precipitously from it's once lofty distinction as one of the nation's richest communities. Winnetka, Jupiter Island, and Atherton far, far surpass BH in income and housing value. The last list I saw in Worth magazine placed BH at #78 in a listing of the nation's richest cities. That list is a good 4-5 years old, I'm sure BH has fallen even further. Don't get me wrong, BH is still Michigan's richest city by far, but compared to the monster money on the coasts, BH isn't anything special anymore. |
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa
Post Number: 599 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 12:07 pm: | |
quote:Most of Woodward between Birmingham and Royal Oak is pretty po-dunk if you don't mind my saying, a pretty average suburban divided highway.
I'm confused by your statement here Mackinaw, Birmingham and RO are right next to each other off of Woodward... can you clarify? |
Rust Member Username: Rust
Post Number: 61 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 64.118.136.130
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 1:02 pm: | |
mind_field, That would be Art Van Elslander's house. |
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism
Post Number: 292 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.215.30.34
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 1:30 pm: | |
I believe that the CEO of GM, Rick Wagoner, as well as the former CEO of Chrysler, Dieter Zetsche, both call the Bloomfield Hills area home. Dream: You are a terrific resource indeed. Thank you for the comprehensive list of Metro Detroit's movers and shakers in GP and BH. |
Everydayislikesunday Member Username: Everydayislikesunday
Post Number: 138 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.41.153.99
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 1:56 pm: | |
Driving down Lakeshore last night -- it was dark, so Im not 100% -- but it appeared that Mr. Art Van has some pretty snazzy holiday decorations -- complete with a life size nativity on the other side of the gates. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 1086 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 2:28 pm: | |
Yeah definitly Art Van's house. Hmmm, Susanarosa, that was a pretty late post...but there really isn't too much to write home about between 14 and 11 Mile. Here's another incredible Lakeshore house: http://www.mcintoshporis.com/p rivate.html This is the second largest house in GP behind the Ford estate, this is at least 20,000 sf. Lakeshore Dr. is often made into the face of GP prestige, but there are really only a handful of houses left that really typify the old Lakeshore. |
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa
Post Number: 600 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 2:36 pm: | |
quote:Hmmm, Susanarosa, that was a pretty late post...but there really isn't too much to write home about between 14 and 11 Mile.
You've obviously never experienced Athens Coney Island then. Just kidding (kinda) Anyway, there are tons of nice neighborhoods off of Woodward between those mile roads; the Vinsetta neighborhood being one of them. But you are correct, it's a very industry-oriented stretch of land on Woodward proper. |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 3597 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.57
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 2:36 pm: | |
A tale of 2 snobbyvilles. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 1087 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 3:01 pm: | |
I'm starting to notice that both of these "snobbyvilles" are dealing with poor school funding. Birmingham's cuts are so deep that they are close to reducing class offerings at the middle school level (limiting students to six classes rather than seven). Bloomfield is, somehow in spite of the current tax regime, maintaining a surplus of under $1 million, and I'm sure cuts have had to be made. Each year for at least the past five Grosse Pointe has been handed $4-6 million deficits, and has had to trim around the edges accordingly. With the teacher's unions always being pandered to, some meaninful things have had to be cut out or switched to private funding sources. I'm all for the trimming of the fat, but the point is, while these school systems are all relatively strong in the context of MI (and for now in the context of the US--i.e. GP South was the highest ranked non-admissions public high school from MI on Newsweeks recent top 1000 high schools list) they really won't be for long without changes to statewide law. All communities involved are really taking similar blows, it will be a matter of who can govern themselves the best and which community will provide better private support to decide which schools are actually better. |
Dsmith Member Username: Dsmith
Post Number: 79 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 68.41.202.23
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 6:47 pm: | |
I'll add to Dream's list. The names below fall into the grouping I described above in post 78: 48302 (Bloomfield Twp), 48304 (Bloomfield Hills), 48009 (Birmingham) and 48025 (Franklin/Bingham Farms) plus I'm including a few in Orchard Lake and WB. I'll try not to replicate Dream's listings. Jay Alix -Questor Larry J Hudas -ADN Risk Services Richard Rogel -Founder of Preferred Provider Organization of Michigan Scott Seligman -President Sterling Savings Bank Bob Seager -Music Benson Ford Jr. -Ford Heir MIKE KOJAIAN Cynthia Booth Ballantyne - Booth heir BN N BAHADUR -Chairman & CEO BBK, Ltd. Tom Celani -CEO, Action Distributing, gaming WARREN CHAPPELL -CHAPPELL STEEL CORPORATION C.H. GALA -GALA & ASSOCIATES, INC. WALTER P CZARNECKI -EVP PENSKE CORPORATION MICHAEL A GRIMALDI -GM ATUL PASRICHA -VP OF M. & A. AND NEW MARKETS - DELPHI DAVID C WAJSGRAS -CFO Lear Corp JACKIE MARTIN -CFO U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION Oscar Feldman -Detroit Pistons Minority Owner Rajendra B. Vattikuti -Co-chairman, Complete Business Solutions Joe Dumars -Detroit Pistons GM JOSEPH K KNOLLENBERG -US Congressman Anthony J. Hopp -chairperson and CEO of Campbell-Ewald E. F Mayne -E.F. Mayne, Jr., Inc ARNOLD Y ARONOFF -Chairman, Landon Co GARY C VALADE -BOARD OF MANAGEMENT - DCX, Carhartt heir? Mickey Shapiro -Real Estate Investor, Lautrec Phillip Fisher Allan E Schwartz -Honigman Miller Schwartz & Cohn ('Detroit's business consigliare') LOGAN G ROBINSON -VICE PRESIDENT - DELPHI William Hubner residence -owner of Fitness USA chain Stanley Frankel -commercial real estate development HABIB P MAMOU -ROYAL OAK WASTE PAPER Robert Eaton -Former GM CEO DAVID W THURSFIELD -EVP Ford Motor THOMAS P DEKAR Bill Bonds -Newsman Thomas Hammond -Flagstar Chairman, moving to Oakland Twp. David Handleman -Handleman Co. JOHN M DEVINE -General Motors CFO Vlasics -Pickle Empire Roger B Smith -Of 'Roger and Me' Fame ALAN M KIRILUK -CHAIRMAN - KIRCO "HOOT" J MCINERNEY -owns a huge chain of car dealerships Harry Pearce -Vice-chairman of General Motors Chuck Forbes -DetroitYes Hero RICHARD J DUGAS -Pulte Homes CEO Carl T. Camden -President & COO Kelly Services WILLIAM P OREILLY -Former Chairman & CEO, Eltrax Systems J. THOMAS CLARK -The Clark Group Arthur M. Hawkins -Former chair at Exide Corporation, criminal MARK R WEBER -EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT - DELPHI Steven Lunn -TRW COO Donald Kegley -Cunningham - Limp Company ROMAN J KRYGIER, JR. -Corp VP Ford Motor RAJ B VATTIKUTI -President, CEO Covansys LLOYD E HANSEN -VP Revenue Management Ford Motor Miriam Mondry -Highland Superstores LAWRENCE A DENTON -DURA AUTOMOTIVE SYSTEMS WILLIAM J PULTE -Pulte Homes Chairman Steve Yzerman -Detroit Rad Wings Richard "Rip" Hamilton -Detroit Pistons Ken Whipple -Chairman CMS Energy Arthur “Bud” Liebler -Former Chrysler Senior VP of Marketing William A Fleury -C.S.M. Manufacturing Corporat. CHARLES M KOJAIAN -Kojaian Companies VP-Developer Thomas Dart -cups Donald E Peterson -Former Chairman Ford Motor Co EDWARD C LEVY -Edward C. Levy Co. President Irving Seligman -Sterling Savings Bank founder / HUD scammer Eugene A. Miller -Chairman, Comerica Inc August F Kammer -Yondotega Club Member Harold Blumenstein -Paragon Properties Courtney Lord -SVP Taubman YOUSSEF B GHAFARI -GHAFARI ASSOCIATES L.L.C./CHAIRMAN Ralph J Gerson -President and CEO Guradian Industries David G Booth -Booth heir JOHN J FERRON -PRICEWATERHOUSECOOPERS LISA A PAYNE -Taubman Centers VP James Grosfeld -ex Pulte Corp CEO Lewis B Campbell -CEO Textron J. Thomas Clark -Vice Chairman - The Clark Group Robert C Larson -One of Detroit's gatekeepers William O¹Reilly -Former Chairman & CEO, Eltrax Systems Sheldon Rose -Edward Rose & Sons MARK B DICKOW -Dickow & Associates Attorney Gary Sawaka -Grand Sawka Corp./President Samir A Danou -Danou Enterprises Inc Bernice Gershenson -philanthropist Eugene Kraft -Chair of the Serta-Restokraft Mattress Co. TARIK S DAOUD -Al Long Ford, Shamrock Lincoln Mercury Richard Wagner -GM Chairman, lives in the former L.B. Bornhauser residence ANTHONY F EARLEY -DTE Chairman DANIEL ARONOFF -CANNON DEVELOPMENT CORP. Robert J. Skandalaris -Chairman, Noble International Limited JAMES PATRICK CONROY -C.F.O. PENSKE CORPORATION Emil Rose -President & Director of the DSO Michael T Flora -Michael Flora & Associates David Schostak -Schostak Brothers & Company William K. Gerber -Exec. VP & CFO of Kelly Services MARK T HOGAN -VICE PRESIDENT GENERAL MOTORS VICTOR SAROKI -ARCHITECT MICHAEL J BOUCHARD SHERIFF-OAKLAND COUNTY CHRISTOPHER P ILITCH Paul C Robertson, Jr. -Builder NICHOLAS V SCHEELE -FORD MOTOR Ted R French -Textron Douglas G Delgrosso -President/COO Lear corp. ROBERT H KURNICK, JR. -PRESIDENT PENSKE CORPORATION ALAN GILMOUR -Former Ford Vice Chair / Gay activist, owns the finest residence in Birmingham Patrick J Harrington -Muchmore, Harrington, & Smalley BURTON D FARBMAN -The Farbman Group David A Trott -Lawyer Mike Ilitch (Marian) -Ilitch Holdings David B. Hermelin (DECD) Norway Amb. / RE delevoper / Palace Ent. Irving Rose -Edward Rose & Sons (BF's finest parcel of land?) David Bing -Owner, Bing Companies Mitch D Albom -Writer Daniel Gilbert -Quicken Loans Owner -Clevland Cavaliers Owner Florine Mark -Chairman, The WW Group Inc. |
Spartacus Member Username: Spartacus
Post Number: 63 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 209.114.251.65
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 7:14 pm: | |
I don't know if you can call it "poor school funding." Birmingham, in particular, takes in $94,000,000 to educate 8,000 students. That doesn't sound like poor funding to me. Poor allocation of resources, yes... poor funding, no. |
Belleislerunner Member Username: Belleislerunner
Post Number: 219 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 198.204.133.208
| Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 7:21 pm: | |
What does "the finest residence in Birmingham" look like? |
Ray Member Username: Ray
Post Number: 611 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.41.160.200
| Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 1:32 am: | |
The Grosse Points are a famous, classic, oustanding suburb in a league with the great suburbs of Chicago and New York. Birmingham is a neat, walkable town, rapidly urbanizing, that compares favorably with America's great vintage suburban cities. Bloomfield Hills is over-rated pasture, a place attractive to most people principally by comparison to the seemingly endless sea of ugly suburan Detroit sprawl that surrounds it. The average Bloomfield Hills resident would be cut up and eaten alive at a Wilmette or Mill Valley dinner party. So say I. |
Bluehorseshoe Member Username: Bluehorseshoe
Post Number: 334 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.137.221.125
| Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 1:33 am: | |
A while back I did a project on sports owners and where they live in respect to where the teams they own are located. Detroit can boast the fact that its teams have no "absentee" owners and in fact several Michiganders own teams in other cities. Below is the list of pro team owners who live in Metro Detroit in alphabetical order. Some of these locations divert from the above discussion, but it still gives an idea of where the movers and shakers hang their hats. Owner- Team(s)- Residence- Source of Wealth: Wm. Davidson- Pistons, TB Lightning, Shock (WNBA)- BH- Guardian Wm. Ford, Sr.- Lions- GP- Ford Dan Gilbert- Cleveland Cavaliers- Livonia- Quicken Mike Ilitch- Tigers, Wings- OC- Pizza Pizza Peter Karmanos, Jr.- Carolina Hurricanes- Plymouth- Compuware Ralph Wilson, Jr.- Buffalo Bills- GPS- see above I'd also like to add Roger Penske of B-ham owns some amazingly successful auto racing teams. Plus Bernie Glieberman, who owns Crosswinds Communities, owns the Ottawa Renegades of the CFL, but I don't know where in Metro Detroit he lives. And Richard DeVos, an Amway heir in Ada, owns the Orlando Magic. |
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