  Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 154 Registered: 08-2005 |
Hi Downtownguy. 1 long & 2 short is the informal salute – sort of a quick “Hello.” By contrast, 3 long & 2 short is a formal salute, commonly called a master’s salute. The formal salute is saved for special occasions, for an extra special hello, or if the master/mate blowing the whistle just wants to hear the whistle blow longer (the latter usually being the case with the Ryerson). There was some discussion awhile back on Boatnerd about how 1 long & 2 short was sometimes referred to long ago as a “Master’s Salute,” meaning it was the common salute between vessel masters. 3 long & 2 short was always considered a formal salute, but never referred to as a master’s salute. These days, the formal salute has evolved in Boatnerd parlance as a “Master’s Salute.” Every now & then, you’ll hear other types of salutes. A salute between International Shipmasters Association members is 3 long & 1 short. Used to be, most fleets had their own type of salute, exchanged between fleet vessels. Salutes between American Steamship Company vessels are 1 long, 1 short, 2 long, 1 short. ASC is the only fleet I’ve seen use their company salutes in the modern era, although others may do so. If you ever get down to the Rouge River when one of the Interlake boats is going up to SeverStal N.A. (the former Rouge Steel plant), you’ll sometimes hear them blow at the bridges for an opening. I think it’s 1 long & 1 short, but I don’t recall for certain (if Billybbrew joins this discussion, he can tell us). Occasionally, a bridge will answer back, with its tricycle-like tinny horn. Finally, when the walleye are running, & fishermen or other boaters aren’t keen on getting out of the shipping channel, you’ll sometimes hear several repeated blasts (usually 5), meaning danger. Regardless of the type of salute, the boats don’t salute as often as they used to. If the vessel is a steamer, there is always a concern about having enough steam. Also, there are usually guys/gals sleeping around the clock, & the pilothouse crew try to be sensitive to this, as well as whether there are crew working on deck near the whistle bugle. If you pick up a copy of Know Your Ships, published by Ann Arbor reporter Roger LeLievre, it has a list of the most common whistle meanings. You can order a copy online, or buy one at the J.W. Westcott Office by Riverside Park. http://www.knowyourships.com/ For folks who want a good chance of hearing boat whistles, wait for the tug Magnetic to go by Downtown at the RenCen area – she almost always salutes with those magnificent train whistles of hers. Also, go to the park by the J.W. Westcott Office when a boat goes by. If the mailboat makes a delivery to the vessel, the mailboat & the vessel usually exchange salutes after the delivery. The Youtube link below shows the Ryerson downbound at the Ambassador Bridge. The first salute is from the mailboat (J.W. Westcott II), which is leaving the vessel’s side after making her delivery. The second is the Ryerson’s response. Both are Master’s Salutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =BdK4Hi6vyzU&mode=related&sear ch As an aside, for folks who want to read about what it was like to sail on the Boblo boats, the passenger vessel South American, & several other Great Lakes vessels, Patrick Livingston wrote a book called “Eight Steamboats.” It’s a fabulous account of life as a sailor, as well as life in Detroit in the 60s. http://wsupress.wayne.edu/grea tlakes/maritime/livingstones/l ivingstonb.html | ||
Drankin21 Member Username: Drankin21 Post Number: 124 Registered: 12-2003 |
Really cool thread, thanks all! | ||
Ragtoplover59 Member Username: Ragtoplover59 Post Number: 137 Registered: 09-2006 |
Great information Awfavre,Thanks I just ordered Eight Steamboats. | ||
Farlane Member Username: Farlane Post Number: 2 Registered: 05-2007 |
Thanks for the link over, lilpup. The Southdown Challenger (now Medusa Challenger I think) was built in 1906 and is still plying the lakes as a commercial vessel. | ||
Downtownguy Member Username: Downtownguy Post Number: 60 Registered: 07-2004 |
Thanks for the clarification on the master salute, Awfavre. I do have a copy of the 1997 Know Your Ships book (perhaps it's time to get a new one?), but it doesn't describe any difference between the salute and the master's salute. In fact, it refers to the one long, two short as the master's salute. My apartment has a great view overlooking the Detroit River. I became aware of the "danger" salute when I first moved here. I keep my ears tuned subconsciously to listen for it. Usually hear it about once a year. This May, a little sailboat had ventured in the path of a freighter. How can you not see one of those behemoths coming at you? Thanks for all the great info. I never get tired of watching the ships passing by my window. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1957 Registered: 11-2003 |
I hear the 5 short blasts denoting the "danger salute" just about weekly from the freighter channel out in Lake St. Clair. That's because there is, and always has been, a "dedicated" group of fishermen who like to fish out in the freighter channel and who treat that location as hollowed, sacred fishing grounds and freighters be damned. | ||
Billybbrew Member Username: Billybbrew Post Number: 293 Registered: 07-2005 |
A clarification about the Master(s)salute. A salute on the lakes in early days was always 3 long, 2 short. Over time, Masters (proper name for a Captain)and other officers started using a shorter quicker version of 1 long, 2 short. With a few exceptions, like the Ryerson, the 1 long, 2 short is the most commonly used whistle. Now I prefer to refer to the 3 long, 2 short as a formal salute and the 1 long, 2 short as just a "salute" skipping the confusing "Master" reference altogether. Thanks to Lilpup and Farlane for posting the link to my Challenger photo/s. It has been sailing as the St. Marys Challenger since 2005. She is most well known as the Medusa Challenger and was a regular visitor to the now demolished Medusa Silos downtown. And yes, I almost always blow a salute as I pass by Hart Plaza on the Magnetic. I like to hear it echo off the buildings and watch the people jump on the Riverwalk :-) BillyBBrew aka TheEmpireBuilder (Message edited by BillyBBrew on September 24, 2007) | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6380 Registered: 10-2003 |
While he's modest about it too... Billybbrew's photo graces the cover of this years edition of Know Your Ships. Congratulations on a great shot! | ||
Sailor_rick Member Username: Sailor_rick Post Number: 197 Registered: 02-2004 |
If the captain was on the bridge/wheelhouse during daylight hours, we’d always give the American Steamship Company salute to a passing sister ship. Also an extra special toot for the ladies in the small craft who’d treat us to a peek of their assets. Up in Marine City, the ships still salute their families in town as they pass by. | ||
Billk Member Username: Billk Post Number: 118 Registered: 09-2005 |
I picked up a copy of Know Your Ships this weekend at the Dossin Museum on Belle Isle. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1959 Registered: 11-2003 |
AIW, wasn't it Billybrew we were trying to hail down at Zug Island a month ago? Wow!! an international incident almost occurred. Next time, perhaps a phone call will suffice. | ||
Billybbrew Member Username: Billybbrew Post Number: 294 Registered: 07-2005 |
Lol, BillyBBrew has not been going onto the forum on a regular basis for awhile now. Shame on him....Yes, a phone call always works... | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 176 Registered: 05-2006 |
There is a great new book about Lake Boats available at Amazon Lake Boats: The Enduring Vessels of the Great Lakes by Greg McDonnell www.amazon.com/Lake-Boats-Endu ring-Vessels-Great/dp/15504646 39/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0672541-05 47905?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190 656769&sr=1-1 The book is quite nice, and features photos from local photographers, and also shots at the mail boat, as well as several shots from the last Great Lakes steam boats, all the photos/work are contemporary. Cheers | ||
Spaceman_spiff Member Username: Spaceman_spiff Post Number: 93 Registered: 02-2006 |
For freighter tracking, Rene Beauchamp's Seaway Ships (released every year) is great. -Spiff | ||
Keystone Member Username: Keystone Post Number: 267 Registered: 10-2003 |
My Uncle was a freighter pilot between Toledo and Pt. Huron. International freighters require an American pilot on board at all times. He had a lot of stories about the various styles of freighter he would pilot, their handling characteristics, crew hierarchy, food, etc. One trip up the St. Clair River he apparently was going a bit fast, and the vessel put out quite a wake. So much so, that (allegedly) several docks and boathouses were destroyed. Well, after the litigation, it was common for freighters to 'salute' in that area of the river in the wee hours of the morning. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1964 Registered: 11-2003 |
Keystone-Does your uncle keep a log of the freighters he has piloted? What about the MV BUCHENSTEIN from Germany, owned by the Hapag LLoyd line, in the 1970's? I had a lovely week on that vessel under the command of Captain Stover from Bremen. I hope he was not piloting the Crystal Wave in the St. Clair River when she hit and sank one of the Hapag LLoyd freighters in the 60's! | ||
Keystone Member Username: Keystone Post Number: 268 Registered: 10-2003 |
He knows the Hapag Lloyd company well, but doesn't recall if he was on your ship or not. Quite likely though if it was a regular traveller through the area. | ||
Billybbrew Member Username: Billybbrew Post Number: 296 Registered: 07-2005 |
Who is your uncle Keystone? I might know him. | ||
Keystone Member Username: Keystone Post Number: 269 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think a lot of guys knew him as 'Captain Tom'. He retired several years ago as the senior Pilot in the area. He's incredibly understated and doesn't share a lot of stories about his adventures. If you know who he is, and know some stories of his long career.. I'd love to hear. | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 156 Registered: 08-2005 |
For those who were listening a few minutes ago, the American Steamship Company fleetmates American Republic & American Spirit saluted each other just above the RenCen. I wasn’t thinking, or I would have posted earlier to give everyone a heads-up. | ||
Amy_p Member Username: Amy_p Post Number: 858 Registered: 10-2003 |
I heard it up here on the 26th floor.  Unrelated, but the coast guard helicopters and boats seemed to be doing training manuevers out there this morning, retrieving stuff from the river with the basket, etc. Pretty neat. | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 157 Registered: 08-2005 |
For those who are interested & are still around this time of night, the thousand-footer American Century is about to turn in the river just above the RenCen. She's going to the Belle Isle Anchorage, which is located off Tri-Centenniel Park, because she's waiting for another vessel to leave Zug Island. | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 160 Registered: 08-2005 |
For those who are within earshot of the river, one vessel (the American Century, a thousand-footer) is anchored at the Belle Isle Anchorage off Tri-Centennial State Park. Her fleetmate, the H. Lee White will be passing by her in the next 5 to 10 minutes (3:18 to 3:23), & they will probably salute each other with the company salute. About half an hour after that, another fleetmate (& a thousand footer), the Indiana Harbor, will likely do the same salute. | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 161 Registered: 08-2005 |
Okay, so I was wrong (no salute). Sorry about that! | ||
9936sussex Member Username: 9936sussex Post Number: 35 Registered: 10-2007 |
Very cool thread....I'm learning lots of neat stuff! Thanks for sharing! | ||
Downtownguy Member Username: Downtownguy Post Number: 76 Registered: 07-2004 |
Awfavre, I noticed the American Century out there today. I did see one ship go by and salute her. She was crowding the river since she was perpendicular to shore. It looked like a bit of a tight fit from here. I guess the wind is the culprit? Anyway, I didn't notice which ship saluted, but I did hear it from somebody. Shortly afterwards, the Westcott made a delivery and the American Century was on her way. | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 162 Registered: 08-2005 |
Hey, Downtownguy. The American Century had service techs aboard doing some repairs since early this morning. Although she was anchored, the wind was so strong it was pushing her stern toward shore. If you looked at the water, you could see the wind was blowing so hard it looked like the water was flowing upriver instead of downriver. It was surreal watching this all day. I took a gazillion pictures, I think. This same wind is causing a seiche effect on Lake Erie, basically pushing all the water East. the water levels in Maumee Bay down by Toledo are dropping so quickly & so much, the freighter H. Lee White had to anchor in the Ojibway Anchorage off Windsor -- she can't get into port because the water levels are too low. Getting back to the American Century, the boat that saluted her was the Indiana Harbor. The Century didn't return the salute. And believe it or not, the Westcott II was making a delivery to the Indiana Harbor all the way from the lower tip of Belle Isle to just abeam of the Century. They had a huge delivery, & they were using the Indiana Harbor to get a lee from the wind & waves. After the mailboat finished with that delivery, she went to pick up the service techs from the Century. She then scooted back down to the Westcott Office under the Ambassador Bridge to get the pilot boat out to do the pilot change with the salty Finex, which is on her way to Norway with peas from Thunder Bay, ON. [Whew! That was a mouthful.] | ||
C_p Member Username: C_p Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2006 |
Another interesting pastime is to listen to the vessel traffic on a scanner. Sometimes they ask " got time for 8" ?, and will carry on lengthly conversations about this and that as they are familiar with each other. We have a view of the river, and I like to photo as well as log vessel passages on a daily basis.Awfavre, have found your pic's interesting as you must either work or live downtown. | ||
Downtownguy Member Username: Downtownguy Post Number: 77 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hi Awfavre! Thanks for clearing up the bit about the whistles yesterday. Speaking of crowding the river, about 1/2 hour ago, the Algocape was going downbound and made a u-turn to stop at the Belle Isle Anchorage. I looked out and noticed that, as she was about half-way through her turn and about a 90 degree angle to shore, the Paul Martin passed her going upbound. Isn't it a bit risky to make a maneuver like that when another ship is so close by? Or, is there more room out there than it appears from shore? It's not like the Paul Martin could slam on her brakes if the Algocape got in the way! | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 4260 Registered: 10-2003 |
I notice^ that too, but yesterday, exiting Belle Isle, after handball. It seemed to be blocking the whole channel. I just figured it had to be turning, but had no motion as if anchored. I've never seen that before. |
