Discuss Detroit » Hall of Fame Threads » Old Car Factories » Old Car Factories - 12
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 4760
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.70.116.110
Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker,

Yes those are all part of the Ford Complex. In the photo above you can see the waterfront plant (demolished) the Powerhouse (the twin stacks) that is still in use.

In the rear is this plant:

ford windsor

Still in use but threatend with closure. It was built in 1937 by Kahn. The power house was 1922, also Kahn.
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Aiw
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Post Number: 4761
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Posted From: 67.70.116.110
Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ford City (later East Windsor) was amagamated into Windsor in 1935. So anything you find Labeled as Ford or Ford City or East Windsor is pre-amalgamation.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 250
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.24.69
Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 10:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I redid the top photo to include all of the factories in the original.

Ford Walkerville 3

Here are a couple of Ford City shots, the second on I guess is the town hall, as the sign says Post Office on it.

Ford City Ca

Ford City Ca, Town Hall

I saw mini-doc about the powerhouse on one of those channel 9, local architecture spots. I look forward to them, I wish a Detroit station would do the same thing.
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Aiw
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Post Number: 4764
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Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker, you got it. That was the City Hall. It became redundant with amalgamation, and was used as the post office only for many years. It was demolished in the 1970's.

The photo above that, shows the front of the Riverfront plant, and coporate offices (the smaller building on the right). That scene was almost directly across the street from the one above.
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Jjaba
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Post Number: 2574
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 24.22.82.162
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's little Andrew standing there in East Windsor. He's the kid with the Russian fur cap, prepared to go into the N. Ontario wilds just in case. A little cold for bikes, eh.

Those Ford plants are some of the purest Albert Kahn bldgs. you'll ever see.

Imagine all those right-hand drive cars shipped to the Empire from that dock. G-d save Ford, G-d save the Queen of England.

jjaba, enjoying this series.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 259
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.40.198
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 5:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kessler Motor Co Detroit, MI (1921-22 ?)

I can't find any other info on if they ever made a car, or only made motors. I did find some info that they made two models of aircraft engines, but not what they were used in. No addresses have been found so far, but maybe one of these buildings will look familiar. (If anyone is a model railroader, it would be pretty easy to model out of a DPM kit.)

Kessler Motor Co plant 1

Kessler Motor Co plant 2

Kessler Motor Co plant interior

Kessler Motor Co plant interior 2

What I found from an aviation source:

Kessler 200 (1921 Angle Encyclopedia) 1917 - 200hp at 2400rpm 531.63ci supercharged geared 6LW. Ran a four-stroke cycle, but at the bottom of the intake stroke ports were opened to admit added air under pressure, governed by a rotary valve connected to the throttle, into the combustion chamber, which reportedly produced a compression ratio as low as 3.66:1.

Kessler 6C-400 (1921 Angle Encyclopedia) 6C-400 1918 - 400hp 855.3ci 6LW; dry wt: 578#. Six-valves experimental; POP: 1.
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Jjaba
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Post Number: 2578
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 192.220.139.5
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jjaba is impressed with all the windows and light coming into the workshops. Pure Detroit. Whether Albert Kahn or not, Detroit factories sure were advanced, eh. Great photos. Thanks.
jjaba
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Ndavies
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Post Number: 1155
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Posted From: 129.9.163.106
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually Jjaba, I don't think they had much choice with the windows. Light bulb technology wasn't what it is today. Those shops would have been very dark during the day without those windows.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 261
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Posted From: 63.41.24.101
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that if the factory owners wanted to turn (get it?) out accurate part, they'd make sure the lathe operators had some decent light. I know that when I'm turning on the old Atlas, I have lots of task lighting. These lathes are pretty plain, but still show some of the design details that machine makers liked to put on their work back then. There are some hints of it shown, which in later machinery would be of purely utilitarian design.

Aiw Has anyone kept track of the names, dates, and addresses of the Windsor area factories that have been in this thread so far? I'd go back and re-read it for the twelfth time, but you know how it is. If it exists. I'd be glad to format it, and add it to be attached to the bottom of THE LIST.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2037
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's what I have on Kessler from Szudarek's "How Detroit Became...":

quote:

"Martin Kessler designed an engine for the Chalmers Motor Co in 1907, and worked as an automotive consultant afterwards. In 1917, the Kessler Motor Company was formed to manufacture aircraft engines during the First World War.The Kessler Motor Co announced its plans for automobile production in January of 1920. The factory was located at 1297-1309 Terminal Avenue, at East Jefferson and the Terminal Railroad...

"...In September 1921, the Kess-Line Motor Company was formed...Martin Kessler was president, and W.H. Radford, prominent in car manufacturing since 1903, was V.P....The former factory of the Liberty Motor Car Company, on Lycaste Avenue and the Detroit Terminal Line, was leased for production. The factory had 70,000 square feet of floor space with a production capacity of 60 cars per day.

"The Kess-Line had a 119" wheelbase and used a 167 cubic inch tandem-four cylinder engine with a supercharger that produced 90-100 hp. The first car built was given 8,000 miles of the roughest road tests to prepare for production. The car was shown at the Detroit Auto Show in 1922, but never made it into production.

"The Kess-Line Motor was reworked and used in the Balboa produced in Fullerton, California in 1924-1925, with the help of W.H. Radford."




The ex-RCH, ex-Liberty, Kess-Line factory, previously posted on page 10: http://atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/56056.jpg
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 262
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Posted From: 63.41.24.101
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Mikem. I'm glad I now know the reason why I couldn't find anything about any cars that those two companies made; they never went into production. A big puzzle piece just fell into place!

List updated, a few more blanks filled.
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31ford
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Username: 31ford

Post Number: 249
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.195
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damn good thread still!!! I'm going to dig thru my filing cabinets and see if I can come up with anything that hasn't been posted yet...........
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2038
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

"Good light had always been a concern of factory owners, but until the second decade of the twentieth century, discussion of lighting focused primarily on windows. Getting daylight , considered the best light for work, into factories required innovations in building and window design. As late as 1915, harry Franklin Porter, an engineer, wrote, "Window glass and white paint are better than electric lamps in the daytime for supplying factory illumination." Accordingly, industrial architects such as Albert Kahn enlarged factory windows by experimenting with reinforced concrete construction and changing the fundamental design of factory buildings, allowing the exterior wall to be almost all glass. The large windows installed in factories in that era concerned some employers, however. Some wanted translucent glass so that workers could not waste time by looking outside; others argued that a distant view gave the operative's eyes and mind an important rest from factory work."




Lindy Biggs, "The Rational Factory"
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 4778
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Posted From: 67.70.116.110
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So... As anyone who goes to a library to research anything knows, you'll always find more than you bargain for...

I found this old brochure from 1943:



I have scanned it and posted it on my website in .pdf format. If interested, click here and click the cover to download...
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 4779
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Posted From: 67.70.116.110
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is an old photo from the newspaper of Chrysler Plant #5 in Windsor... Until tonight I didn't know there was a plant five. I had been able to locate Plant 1,2,3 (still in operation) & 6 (built in 1976 & recently demoished).

I always figured that 4 & 5 were elsewhere in Canada.

plant 5
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 4780
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Posted From: 67.70.116.110
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kirt Motor Car Company made motorcycle engines?

To add to the mystery....

obit

It never ends...
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 4781
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Posted From: 67.70.116.110
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a newspaper clipping from December 1969.

Demolition of Plant 1 of the Ford Motor Car Co. of Canada. This was the plant that was on the watefront. I said the 1970's I was close, demo work carred on into 1970.

ford demo
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Aiw
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Post Number: 4782
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Posted From: 67.70.116.110
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All this because I was dumb enough to drop into the library to browse old Polk's to try and track down a few more factories...

I never did get to the Polk's.... :-)

I do have more to sort through. So expect some more questions to be raised in the next few days.
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 4783
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Posted From: 67.70.116.110
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MikeM or anyone... I can't remember, have we covered Tudhope's yet? I just came across some info on the Windsor side about the plant and the company...
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Mikem
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Post Number: 2039
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, never heard of it.

Crittenden must have been a Grosse Pointer to be buried from Verheyden's, a/k/a Chuck's Body Shop.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 265
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.40.13
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't recall that name, Tudhope, so far in this thread. Interesting about Crittenden, working for Chrysler and the V twin engine.

I saw on CBC 9 today, one of those Windsor memories segments about the Seagrave fire truck plant in Walkerville that is still standing.
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 4784
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Posted From: 67.70.116.110
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 7:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker, You're right, the only pictures I have of it are lousy. I will shoot it again and post some pics. It's really sorry looking and being on a main road, it's constantly in danger of Demolition.

As for the Tudhope Motor Car Co., I'll transcribe the article later, it's from 1918 and was in the Windsor Paper at the time. A big article about the "Plant to employ 1000 men over 10 acres". I personally don't think it was ever built, this is the first I've ever heard of it. It sounds like it would be under the Kelsey-Hayes Plant...

It was the brain child of Barney Everett (of E-M-F fame for those without a score card).
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 270
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.107
Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LeBaron-Detroit (1928-42)- 3100 Meldrum & Charlevoix, cb, Briggs (d)

LeBaron-Detroit/Briggs fire 1963

The fire destroyed the Briggs factory on Meldrum in 1963. This plant was formerly used by LeBaron-Detroit, a division of Briggs to design the coachwork of some of the finest cars ever built in Detroit. The fire was so intense that it spread to and burnt down Our Lady of Sorrows Catholic Church.

LeBaron-Detroit/Briggs fire 1963 OL Sorrows

For more info on LeBaron-Detroit:

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/l/lebaron/lebaron.htm


I found mention of a Briggs plant on Mack, maybe around Beaufait, and found these photos a dFunk that identify it as a Briggs factory. This building came up on the last page, but is this source correct? The coachbuilt.com page says that LeBaron was on the 4th and 5th floors of the Mack factory. Mack Stamping?

www.detroitfunk.com/archives/2005/09/briggs_manufact.html

Newly found info may make this the former American Auto Trimming Co. plant that was on Meldrum, between Mack & Benson. This was sold to Briggs Mfg in 1925. This company also had a plant in Walkerville, and also made trucks. So another Windsor plant for you to find Aiw, here's some help:

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/a/american_auto_trim/american_auto_trim.htm

(Message edited by Hornwrecker on October 20, 2005)
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Bob_cosgrove
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Username: Bob_cosgrove

Post Number: 299
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 207.74.110.163
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From 1925-1926 Ray Dietrich of LeBaron was at 1601 Clay in a now-blue aluminum clad building across from Russell Properties in the what is now known as the Milwaukee Junction area.

At the time he was designing bodies for Packard. He may have had other facilities at the same time or occupied space in body builders such as Briggs.

Bob Cosgrove
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 2599
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Posted From: 24.22.82.162
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, what a fire.
AIW, never heard of Tudhope. Lay it on us, eh.
jjaba
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 272
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Posted From: 63.41.8.107
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dietrich Inc. (1925-36)- 1601 Clay St., cb, also used 1331 Holden Ave Lincoln plt

For more than you ever wanted to know about Dietrich:

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/ d/dietrich/dietrich.htm

I'll have to re-read the LeBaron/Briggs/Dietrich pages to straighten out in my mind, if the Dietrich studio was a separate entity from the Briggs owned one. It gets almost as confusing as the numerous endeavors of Barney Everitt.

I'm going systematically through all of the pages at this website to find any Detroit coachbuilders that we may have missed, or some new info and addresses.
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Bob_cosgrove
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Username: Bob_cosgrove

Post Number: 300
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Posted From: 207.74.110.27
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 8:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At the time he was at 1601 Clay, 1925-26, Ray Dietrich was a separate entity and I believe conintued that way, but Hornwrecker can tell us for sure when he completes his reseach.

Bob Cosgrove
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Bate
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Username: Bate

Post Number: 41
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 4.247.134.163
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwercker, isn't the detroit funk photo link (Briggs) the same building we were trying to read the sign on 20, or so, posts back? I think it might be...
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Bate
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Post Number: 42
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Posted From: 4.247.137.218
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikem's post (Friday, October 07, 2005) does show the same building. Anyone know if the recent warehouse fire relates to any auto plant? Some of the photos on the detroit funk site show a building that must have some type of factory.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 2610
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Posted From: 24.22.82.162
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FOCUS ON CANADA.

The TUDHOPE cars were built in Orillia, Ontario, a sleepy place of a town hard by Lake Simcoe. The place is colder than a well-digger's ass even in July. They built the "Everitt" showing association with Barney Everitt later of E-M-F and Studebaker. That was 1908-13.

In 1914, Frank E. Fisher, mgr. of the Walkerville Studebaker plant bought a failed Tudhope and churned out a Fisher car with Tudhope and other spare parts lying around in Walkerville. The Fisher car was sold until 1918. After that, these guys made auto parts until 1928, the real end to Tudhope and Fisher. So Andrew can take a ride with wife Lori to Orillia and see what the hell's left up there.
It would be wise to invest in a fur coat and knickers.

WINDSOR, WALKERVILLE, CHATHAM, AMHERSTBURG

These four Canadian cities produced an amazing number of name plates in bus, car, and truck rolling stock.

Here are some of the names that were produced in these towns.
Ford Studebaker Packard Dodge Chrysler Mc Laughlin Buick Hupmobile General Motors Menard Gramm Reo Gotfredson Tate Tudhope Fisher E-M-F Denby Joyce Two-in-One Symes Warford Colonial Brock.

Anybody who could sell all these guys screws nuts bolts tires wheels body parts batteries glass, you name it, must have made $$$ millions.

Windsor sure did put the British Empire and Canada on wheels.

jjaba
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Noggin
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Username: Noggin

Post Number: 14
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 68.40.107.240
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rickenbacker Super Sport - Pretty neat looking car
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Noggin
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Post Number: 15
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Posted From: 68.40.107.240
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rickenbacker Vertical 8 (top)

Rickenbacker 6 cylinder sport (bottom)
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2040
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We covered LeBaron and Briggs to some extent on page 1.

Regarding Gotfredson, I thought their only plant was on Gratiot; I didn't know they owned any other property. From the Coachbilt - American Auto Trim link above:

quote:

In 1924, the Gotfredson Corporation acquired the Wayne properties from the Harroun Motors Company. On September 14, 1917, the Harroun Motors Corporation was incorporated for ten million dollars. While waiting for their 24,000-unit-per-year factory to be built, the Harroun Company took possession of the former Prouty and Glass Carriage Company. It is believed that the slow settlement by the government for munitions Harroun had made, and not finding new investors in the wake of the post-war recession, may have dealt the end to the Harroun Motors Corporation in June 1922. The factory lay abandoned until the Gotfredson Truck Corporation purchased the complete automotive plant and about 45 acres of land in 1924. All advances hinged on the sale of their existing plant on [3100] Meldrum Avenue (between Mack and Benson) in Detroit. On Tuesday, May 12th 1925, the sale was announced of the American Auto Trimming Company plant of the Gotfredson Corporation to the Briggs Manufacturing Company for approximately $1,500,000. The American Auto Trimming Company, with the merger of Gotfredson during the previous year, became the motor body division of the Gotfredson Corporation, which was one of the largest independent auto paint and trim plants in the industry. According to Mr. B. Gotfredson, the sale was made after the Gotfredson Corporation had completed plans for expansion beyond the limits of the Meldrum Avenue factory. The motor body division of the corporation was to occupy temporary quarters in the body plant of the Kelsey Wheel Corporation on Kirby to continue production until the entire plant could be moved to the Gotfredson properties in Wayne, Michigan.



I looked in my 1925 directory and found these listings:

American Auto Trimming Co.
Benjamin Gotfredson pres, Robert B Gotfredson v-pres, Mark H Coleman sec-treas
3100 Meldrum Av

Gotfredson Body Corp
Benjamin Gotfredson pres, Robert B Gotfredson v-pres, Mark H Coleman sec-treas,
Mfrs of Automobile Bodies and Tops, Automobile Painting and Trimming
3100 Meldrum Av Phone Melrose 6400

Gotfredson Land Co.
Benjamin Gotfredson pres, Robert B Gotfredson v-pres, Mark H Coleman sec-treas,
3100 Meldrum Av

Gotfredson Truck Corp
Benjamin Gotfredson pres, Robert B Gotfredson v-pres, Mark H Coleman sec-treas
Mfrs of Motor Trucks and Motor Busses
3601 Gratiot Av Phone Melrose 6412

Gotfredson Truck Corp
Benjamin Gotfredson pres, Robert Gotfredson v-pres, M H Coleman sec-treas
3579-3601 Gratiot Av

Wayne, Michigan
Gotfredson Body Corp
C S Briggs mgr
no address given

From this, my understanding is Gotfredson started American Auto Trimming to paint and trim bodies, and the Gotfredson Truck Corp to make trucks. They merged in 1925 to form the Gotfredson Corp. The American Auto Trimming plant on Meldrum was sold to Briggs and was used by LeBaron for a time. I have an article about Dietrich that I will look through later. If my memory is correct, Dietrich moved to his Clay Avenue studio from Meldrum Avenue. The plant burned in 1963. If you drive by today, a new factory has been built on the site, but you can see parts of the old foundation and old driveways leading off of Meldrum and Beaufait into the brick walls of the new building. The site of Our Lady of Sorrows is now a parking lot for a Baptist church across the street.

I'm skeptical about the old brick building at Mack and Beaufait being Briggs, unless it was leased for part of its history by Briggs. The Detroit Funk site also says Briggs made small engines, i.e., "Briggs & Stratton", however that's a different company; no relation to Walter Briggs. Maybe he is confusing the plant at Beaufait with the former Mack Avenue Stamping.

Lastly, I'm trying to picture Kelsey Wheel plant on Kirby. My directory says Kirby and Vermont Avenues. ???
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 276
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Posted From: 63.41.40.127
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No sir, I don't like it. You can't tell me that putting brakes on all four wheels isn't overkill. You boys over at Rickenbacker are just padding the bill with your fancy hydraulic brakes, and anyway, two wheel brakes were good enough to get us this far. And while I'm at it, you damn kids get off of my lawn.

/punch drunk from sorting out coach builders
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2041
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, old paint on the side of the Mack & Beaufait factory is barely readable. There are several layers, but I can make out the following words:

"Used, New, Rebuilt"
"All Guaranteed" and
"DA____ ___REST & CO"

It gave me the impression that it was a machinery dealer or remanufacturer.
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Sven1977
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Username: Sven1977

Post Number: 122
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Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I was exploring the Sandborn Maps, I am pretty sure that there was a small Briggs plant on the other side of Beaufait.
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Mikem
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Post Number: 2043
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looking at older aerial photos, I think the Kelsey Wheel plant at Kirby and Vermont was razed for the construction of I-94. Kirby is now the eastbound I-94 service drive, and Vermont crossed Kirby a block east of where the GTW tracks cross I-94:

1949:

Kelsey Wheel 1949


TerraServer

Kirby & Vermont
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2044
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Briggs also had a factory on Harper near the Milwaukee Jct which burned down in the 1920's:

Briggs fire 1927

Briggs Fire 1927

Reading Coachbuilt's entry for Briggs, I found this interesting passage which explains why I show a Briggs plant on the Ford Highland Park property on the 1947 maps I posted on page 1:

quote:

Just as Ford was ramping up for the introduction of the Model A, a huge fire leveled Briggs’ Harper Ave. factory, leaving them with little to no space to manufacture the thousands of bodies they had hoped to sell to Ford. Since their other three plants - Mack Ave., Meldrum Ave, and Vernor Highway – were busy with other projects, a deal was struck with Ford where Briggs leased the 1.64 million sq. ft. Highland Park Model T plant which had been mothballed following the end of Model T production. Briggs signed a five-year renewable lease at $800,000 per year. Remarkably, the lease did not prohibit them from manufacturing bodies for other auto manufacturers, and for many years Briggs built Chrysler bodies inside a portion of the huge plant.


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Aiw
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Post Number: 4797
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Posted From: 67.70.116.110
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike there were a Godfredson or Two on my side of the river as well....

This was at one time the Godfredson plant in Windsor. They acquired the property from Studebaker, not sure if the building was Studebaker's at one time. The Studebaker plant was across the street and 1/2 a block west.

There's more to the plant, but this is the only photo I have handy... The plant is at the crest of where the road descends under the rail road tracks. As a result photos of the front are taken looking up...

Godfredson Windsor
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Aiw
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Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is part of the Dominion Forge Complex. In 1918 they were supplying the Rouge Fordson Plant with drop forged parts...

df
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Aiw
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Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This was the Windsor Kelsey-Hayes Plant. Now in use as a stamping plant. The photo was taken about a half hour ago... So excuse the dusk.

k-h
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Aiw
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Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a pair of mystery sites.

This whole corridor is the Windsor Milwaukee Junction. This was the birthplace of the Canadian Auto industry. So I'm sure these two were at one time or another Automotive Related....

The red brick portion at the very left was the first part of this plant. Across the street was the site of the long demolished Chrysler Plant 1. This was the Essex Wire Corp. factory - They made "wire coling"

1

I think this was the L.A. Young Facotry, that later made Divco Milk Trucks.

2

(Message edited by aiw on October 21, 2005)
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Aiw
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Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another topic we haven't covered yet are the phantom parking lots.... You know when a plant is gone, yet the employee parking lots remain. The old Dodge Main ones come to mind.

I recently discovered these parking lots for the old Chrysler Plant 1. It's been gone for 30 years and there is nothing else around.

pl 1

pl 2
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Aiw
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Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's the plant one Sandborn, along with the location of the above Phantom Lot.

plnt 1
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Hornwrecker
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Posted From: 63.41.8.185
Posted on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Briggs timeline:

1877-Walter O. Briggs was born in Ypsilanti, Michigan on February 27
1904-hired to take charge of the upholstery shop for B.F. Everitt Co
1909-Walter O. Briggs buys B.F. Everitt Co. for $50k, worked way up to V.P.
1917- buys Sterling Auto Top Co Detroit, Detroit Curled-Hair Works, Murphy Chair Co (on Harper and MCRR) formerly C.H. Dunks Co, Detroit {bedsprings}
1923- buys Michigan Stamping Co of Chesterfield, (Mack Avenue Stamping(1916))
1924-buys American Auto Trimming Co. (3100 Meldrum) and plant on Vernor Hwy
1927-buys LeBaron, moves to Mack plant called LeBaron Studios
1927- rumors of Briggs buying Murray, Hank Ford quashes it
1928-fire destroys Harper plant (ex-Murphy Chair) moves them to HP Ford plant
1929-buys Phillips Custom Body Co
1930-closes LeBarons NY office and Bridgeport, CT plt, moves to Detroit
1932-starts Briggs Motor Bodies Ltd. in Dagenham, England
1933- the Briggs Strike
1933-Briggsteel Beautyware bathroom fixtures started
1935- Walter Briggs assumes total ownership of the Detroit Tigers until his death
1937-strike at Meldrum plant
1942- LeBaron-Detroit named dropped due to in-house designs
1946-purchased the Abingdon Sanitary Manufacturing of Abingdon, Illinois
1952-Walter O. Briggs Sr. dies
1953-Chrysler buys Briggs plants for $35 million -10 in Detroit, and 1 in Youngstown, OH and Evansville, IN, plant in England sold to Ford, Conner plant leased to Packard.
1953- Briggs family keeps Briggs Beautyware division
1963- Briggs sell off to the Case Manufacturing Co. of Robinson, Illinois
1973-Briggs builds Knoxville Steel Plant, largest porcelain-on-steel plumbing ware plant in the world.
1997-Briggs purchased by Cerámicas Industriales, South America (CISA)

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/ b/briggs/briggs.htm
www.briggsplumbing.com

LeBaron/Dietrich timeline:

1894-Raymond H. Dietrich was born in the Bronx, NY
1913-Dietrich works for Brewster & Co, where he meets Thomas Hibbard
1920-Dietrich and Hibbard form LeBaron, Carrossiers in NYC
1921-autoshow LeBaron coachwork on Leland's Lincoln
1923-merged with Bridgeport Body Co.
1924-started designing for Lincoln Motors, made by Murray
1924-Murray makes bid for LeBaron, and move ops to Detroit, bid fails
1925-Dietrich forms own studio in Detroit with 50% Murray ownership, 1601 Clay St.
1925-LeBaron Inc formed
1926-Briggs begins negotiations for LeBaron
1926, Dietrich Inc. moves to former-Leland Lincoln plant 1331 Holden Ave
1927-LeBaron-Detroit formed, uses 4th and 5th floors of Mack Stampin
1928-moves to 3100 Meldrum, bodies for Stutz, Chrysler, Lincoln, Pace-Arrow, Packard, and Hudson
1930-closes LeBarons NY office and Bridgeport, CT plt, moves to Detroit
1930-Ray Dietrich resigns. Ops transferred to one of the Murray plants
1931-Dietrich does independent designs, then works for Chrysler
1936-last use of Dietrich label, by Murray for Packard
1938-Dietrich consults for Checker
1942-Lebaron-Detroit names ceases to be used, Meldrum plant known as Briggs
1948-Dietrich conults for Tucker
1948 Raymond Dietrich Inc formed, Grand Rapids, MI, consults with Nash, Lincoln, Packard, Checker
1953-Dietrich Inc folds,
1958-LeBaron names reappears on Chrysler Imperial until 73
1963-Dietrich approached by Gibson Guitars, designs the Firebird to little success
1977-Chrysler ressurects LeBaron name for new model
1980- Raymond H. Dietrich dies at age 86
1982-infamous K-car based Chrysler LeBaron. (How the mighty have fallen.)
1985-death of the K-car LeBaron

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/ d/dietrich/dietrich.htm
http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/ l/lebaron/lebaron.htm
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Jjaba
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 2:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker, your research brings tears to our eyes. You are THAT good.
jjaba
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Jjaba
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 2:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Obviously, the flame under AIW is back. He's up and running with the Windsor photos.
When he strikes Orillia poses, we reward him bigtime.

But dress warm, AIW. Tis colder than a well-digger's ass up there any time of year.

jjaba, on this northside of the Intl. Border.
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Aiw
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is the transcription of the Tudhope article...

From the Evening Record Nov. 16, 1912


quote:


Windsor Secures New Auto Factory That Will Employ 1,000 Men; Site Covers 10 Acres
______________________________ __________________

Barney Evirett (sic), the automobile king of Detroit, is starting mammoth industry in this city and will make the fur fly.
______________________________ __________________

BUILDINGS ALONE TO COST $75,000
______________________________ _____________________

Factory district now practically sold out and city is arranging for purchase of 23 additional acres to satisfy new firms that want to locate here.

______________________________ __________________

Ald. W. W. Lanspeary, chairman of the Industrial Committee of the City Council, announces the decision of the Tudhope Automobile Manufacturing Co. to locate a mammoth plant in Windsor, occupying ten and a half acres in the factory district.

After some weeks spent in negotiations, Ald. Lanspeary succeeded in overcoming all obstacles and landing this big industrial plum for the city. He holds in his pocket an agreement executed by the firm to purchase the required land for a site and to begin the erection of a factory building not later than April 15, same to be completed by July 15, 1913.

A certified cheque for $300 has been deposited with the city as evidence of good faith in carrying out the agreement.

The Bylaw has been prepared and will be given the first reading at City Council meeting on Monday night. It will then be presented to the rate payers at the municipal election for ratification.

The new firm will spend $100,000 on buildings and site, exclusive of machinery and supplies. There will be a thousand men employed when the factory gets running to full capacity.

The man behind this big industry is Barney Everitt of Detroit, who was one of the founders of the E.M.F. Co. He knows the automobile business from alpha to omega, backwards and frontwards, and then some. He is recognized as a factory organizer of the first order and if anyone can make a success of an auto industry it is Barney Everitt.

The plant will be located between McDougall and Mercer, starting at Sheppard Ave. and running back to the Moloney Plant.


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Jjaba
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent AIW. That story is consistent with the jjaba material posted above. jjaba is hoping AIW can get up to Orillia, Ontario with a full report on Tudhope and others. Be sure to wear your winter socks and a good coat. It's colder than a well digger's wife's ass up there.

Tell us Andrew, do Lipton Tea workers take coffee breaks?
jjaba, LOL.
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Hornwrecker
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Posted From: 63.41.40.96
Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2005 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That old Barney sure kept his fingers in it, didn't he. I ought to do a time line on his dealings, as I having trouble keeping track of his adventures in entrepenuership. He reminds me a bit of Edison and P.T. Barnum.

Thanks for the compliment Jjaba, but the reason I did it was so I could get things straight in my mind, and not have to refer constantly back to some huge web pages, or books. So much better to have everything out in the open (even though Mikem beat me to the punch about the Briggs Harper factory, even had the same fire pics :-)).

I'm finding more coachbuilders that we haven't covered, and I suspect that there are also a bunch of truck mfgs that we don't even want to get into yet, I hope.
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Jjaba
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 1:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, a number of the names jjaba listed of Canadian motor companies were truck, bus, and specialty shops.

Detroit had been a big carriage builder before automobiles with engines so the transition to cars was natural.

Beaudette for example in Pontiac, made 2 million Ford bodies alone. Fords called them "Pontiacs".

It took a lot of coach builders to keep the assembly lines going. The manufacturers jobbed alot of this work out to specialty shops.
Body by Fisher had a historic coach as their logo.
There was good reason for that.

jjaba.
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Hornwrecker
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Posted From: 63.41.8.141
Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aiw, Jjaba: Here is some info on Tudhope.

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/c/carriage/carriage.htm

Since we seem to be on a fire trend currently, here are a couple of photos that I found of a fire at the Packard plant, sometime in the 1950s.

Packard fire 50s

Packard fire 50s 2
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Jjaba
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker, you are the best. In your article, there's about all you'd ever want to know about Tudhope. Now if AIW, Goat or some other Canadian can get to Orillia, Ontario, we got the pictures, each worth a thousand words.

But careful, it's cold than a well digger's daughter's sister's ass up there. Wear good socks and crank up the heater on the carriage.

Go quickly before you'll need a Tudhope cutter to get around town.

jjaba, American.
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31ford
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Too bad one couldn't buy CD of this thread... Lots of great info compiled into one source.. Could make for a great Forum fundraiser.

Anyone have any info on the old Wills St. Claire plant? I think Chrysler took it over and added on greatly to the original structure.
For those who don't know C.H. Wills was the cheif engineer, metallurgist for Henry Ford. He left Ford in the late teens to produce his own car. The Wills St. Claire.. It was a fine automobile, but not many flivver mechanics cold repair it properly due to it's complex overhead cam chain driven system, much like today's Escorts, etc....
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Hornwrecker
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Posted From: 63.41.40.121
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm keeping a copy of all of this thread on my hardrive, including the Continental thread which I think started this whole mess. Someday I'll burn some CDs of it to give out, when somebody decides that this is done.

Working through all of the local coachbuilders, I learned something that is obvious, but never realized until I read this sentence:

...brokered a deal whereby the C.R. Wilson Body Co., J.W. Murray Mfg. Co., Towson Body Co., and J.C. Widman & Co. would merge, forming the Murray Body Corporation under the leadership of John W. Murray

That one sentence saved me hours of searching.

Coming soon: the overly long, and probably incomplete list of Detroit Area Coachbuilders.

31ford I just found out that Erdman-Guider Co. made the bodies for the Ste Claire. No clue as to where the plant was.
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Bob_cosgrove
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Post Number: 302
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 207.74.110.110
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

C. Harold Wills (1878-1940) and his wife, the former Mary Coyne,from 1914 to 1932 lived at 8344 East Jefferson in Indian Village on the south side of East Jefferson immediately to the west of John Owen Park at the foot of Iroquois. The house was removed c.1976.

It was originally built for Carl Graham Fisher (no relation to the Fisher brothers as far as I know) a native of Indiapolis, who was founder of the Presto Lite Company and the Indianapolis Speedway and an organizer the Lincoln Highway Association.

The Fishers lived there only one year, 1913, before returning to Indianapolis. The Wills purchased the their riverside estate (although house was not particularly large or imposing as the other river side homes were like J. B. Ford's or Edsel & Eleanor Ford's.

Some of Carl Fisher's papers are in the Burton Historical Collection. These include a remembrance by Mrs. Fisher who wrote that their short stay was the result of the "smoke from the freighters" on the Detroit River.

This is somewhat hard to believe. A more likely source of the once prevelent soot and cinders was the Morgan & Wright tire works (later UniRoyal)on East Jefferson at Helen just west of the Belle Isle Bridge.

The Fisher/Wills site is still vacant although reportedly a second Belle Maison apartment building will be built there.

Bob Cosgrove
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Mikem
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Post Number: 2052
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Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 1:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

31Ford, somewhere on page 10 we mentioned that the Wills-St Claire factory was loacated in Marysville, Michigan, a small town on the St Clair River south of Port Huron. Pictures can be seen here: Marysville Chrysler did buy the factory in the 1930's and I think they used it as a shipping point for much of what they built during the war.

http://info.detnews.com/joyrid es/story/index.cfm?id=453

I show the Erman-Guider Co at 320 Beaubien in 1925, mfrs of auto bodies.

(Message edited by MikeM on October 24, 2005)

(Message edited by MikeM on October 24, 2005)
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Mikem
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker, my 1925 directory entries...

C.R. Wilson Body Co
C Haines Wilson pres, George D Wilson v-pres and genl mgr,
Edward J Connolly v-pres incharge mfg, Magnus M Burgess treas,
Joseph M Brown sec, Charles McMillan asst sec and treas
manufacturers automobile bodies
1660 Clay av

J.W. Murray Manufacturing Co
John W. Murray Chairman, James R Murray Pres,
George Shanahan V-Pres, Fred J Krumm Sec-Treas,
Mfrs sheet metal parts for motor cars, trucks and tractors, and sheet metal stampings
Executive offices 1440 Clay av, Phone Empire 6900
Plant 1975 Clay av, Phone Empire 5000

Towson Body Co
Morris Towson (Cleveland, O) pres, Gordon Fairgrieve v-pres,
Wm P MacFarland sec, Wm M Locke treas
auto body manufacturers
1424 Aberle av

Aberle is a short, dead end-street northeast of the Milwaukee Jct area, running east off of Russell, a block south of Clay Ave. This map is from 1926:

Aberle St

I couldn't find it on a 1947 map. Why? I guess because it essentially became an entrance drive into the future Russell Industrial Center:

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=9&Z=17&X=3303&Y=46937&W=3

J.C. Widman & Co
John C. Widman pres, Charles H Widman v-pres sales-mgr
George H Widman treas, Wilfred S Gibbs assit treas
manufacturers of automobile bodies and glass beveling
14th av cor Kirby av w

14th and Kirby is a block west of Vermont and Kirby, location of one of Hayes Wheel Corp's plants in my post #2043 above.
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31ford
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 1:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Hornwrecker & MikeM..

I finally dug thru my junk and found some stuff that is postworthy.. been Downsizing pics this eve.
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Mikem
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Who asked about Gray Motor Co?

Gray Motor Corporation
Frank L Klingensmith Pres, Frank F Beal V-Pres,
H W Burritt Sec-Treas and Genl Mgr
Motor cars and motors
Mack av and Detroit Terminal Ry
Phone Hickory 8000

This history of Gray is condensed from Szudarek's book:

Ora Mulford, a boat manufacturer in Grand Rapids, moved to Detroit and with the backing of David Gray, designed his own marine engine. The Gray Marine Motor Co was formed in 1905, with a plant on 18 acres on Mack Avenue at the Terminal Railroad.

In the spring of 1920, David Gray backed Frank Beal, a former Packard VP, and William Blackburn, a former Cadillac superintendent, and took over the plant for the purpose of manufacturing an automobile called the "Gray".

After a year without production, Frank Klingensmith, former VP and treasurer of Ford Motor, became the president of Gray Motor Corporation. The Gray automobile was introduced in 1921, and went head-to-head with the Model T, but had additional refinements, such as a three speed selective transmission and and improved suspension.

The sales volume never came close to the Model T even after additional improvements. Klingensmith resigned in 1925 and the company went out of business in June 1926.


Another source I have, Motormen and Yachting by Michael Dixon, indicates that the Gray Motor Marine Corp first built its engines at a factory at Leib and Congress in 1907. In 1910, the company became a subsidiary of the United States Motor Corporation and moved production to a factory on Oakland Avenue in Highland Park. Apparently this plant later became part of the Chrysler HP complex.

The move to Mack Avenue was in 1917, and Dixon says the plant was on Mack Ave at the Belt Line Road, near the Eastern Market. (I'm not sure which author has the correct railroad--I'm going with my Polk's directory and the Detroit Terminal RR. However, I think Dixon has the correct date for the move to Mack Avenue; Szudarek makes it sound as if the plant opened initially on Mack in 1905.)

A few years after the reorganization to become an auto producer, Mulford exchanged his investment for sole ownership of the marine engine division, and relocated production of marine engines to the former factory of the Northern Manufacturing Company at 6910 E. Lafayette, corner of Canton, near the Belle Isle Bridge:

Link to map

Gray Marine Motor Co

Mulford died in 1944, and to settle his estate, the Gray Marine Motor Comapny became a subsidiary of Continental Motors, until 1969. The Gray factory closed in 1963 and production was moved to the Continental plant in Muskegon, where Grays were produced until 1968.
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Psip
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Post Number: 398
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Posted From: 69.246.13.131
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 4:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks MikeM :-)

(Message edited by psip on October 24, 2005)
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit Coachbuilders

American Auto Trimming Co -(1909-25) 3100 Meldrum, also Walkerville
American Motor Body Corp (1922-28)- ???, Stutz bodies
Anderson Carriage Co.-(1895-1907) 416 Clay St> Anderson Electric Car
O.J. Beaudette-(?-1922 )- ?? >Baldwin and Kennet Roads, Pontiac, bought by Fisher 1922
Briscoe Mfg. Co. -(1910s-1920s)
Briggs -(1909-54) Mack Stamping, Vernor Hwy, Meldrum Ave. HP Ford, E. Outer Dr., Connor, (10 plts around Detroit)
Clayton & Lambert Mfg. Co.-(1915-1970)- started in Ypsilanti 1882, Devine St. & Conner> Hudson 1929 (Kahn 1925), moved to ???
Columbia Body Co. -(1915-1930), ??? commercial Model T bodies, woodies
Creative Ind. -(1949-1991)- ???, showcars, Daytona& Superbird,>Masco Tech, Taylor
Detroit Auto Products Co.(1916?) 38 Sherman St, Ford bodies
Detroit Body Company (1911-?)- Clay and St Aubin St, Spider cyclecar, Cadillacs
Detroit Carriage Co. -(1898-1910) -???, Olds bodies
Dietrich Inc. (1925-36)- 1601 Clay St., cb, 1331 Holden Ave former Lincloln plt
England Mfg Co-?????? Detroit???
Erdman-Guider Co-(1913-35)-320 Beaubien , woodies, Paige, Ste Claire bodies
Everitt, B.F.- (1899-1927) 63-65 Fort St. coachbuilder
Everitt, B.F.- (1909 or 11) Beaufait & Mack, later Columbia plant 1916
Everitt Bros. Mfg. (191?-2? )- ??? East Jefferson> Briggs
Fabric Body Corp.-(1923-1928)-fabric covered bodywork
Fisher Body (1908->)- W. Fort & Livernois
Fisher Body Plant #2 (wood kiln)- St. Antoine (d) 1925
Fisher Body Plant #4- Oakland Ave.
Fisher Body Plant #7- Harper Ave / see parking lot behind F21 (d)
Fisher Body Plant #10- 5140 Riopelle (Cadillac)
Fisher Body Plant #12 -1961 E. Milwaukee (d)
Fisher Body Plant #18 (aka Cadillac Fleetwood Plant)- 261 West End Ave (d 1993)
Fisher Body #19 - Piquette and Hastings.
Fisher Plant #21>GMC NATP (1919-1990?) - 601 Piquette (s)
Fisher Body #23- used as GMC NAPT assembly 1990-94 (s)
Fisher Body #27- (1925>)-E. Milwaukee & Hastings now NewCenter (8 mile movie site) (s)
Fleetwood Metal Body Co-(1926->) 261 West End Ave, Fisher #18 (d)
Fox Bros. & Co.-(1912-? )-??? associated with Kelsey-Herbert (Tiffany window Newberry Hall)
Gotfredson Body Company -(1924-1927) 36253 Michigan Ave. Wayne, MI, Sainte Claire bodies, (Wayne Body Co?)
Griswold Body Co. (1909-1932)-5800 block of Commonwealth St, cb, Paige bodies
Guider-Sweetland-(1913-3?)-??? Lincoln hearse and ambulances
Hayes Mfg Co.-(1904-24)-???
Hussey Auto & Supply (1902-03)- Beaubien & Trombley, 1st Cadillac body
LeBaron-Detroit (1928-42)- 3100 Meldrum, cb, Briggs (d)
Michigan Auto Body Co. - Michigan Body Co. -(1910s) - Milford
Model Body Corp -(1920s) ???? fabric body?
Monroe Body Company -(1910-1916) - ??? Pontiac, Michigan> Chevy
Murray Mfg (1913-24)- Fordyce St and Morrow St., 1600 Clay St.
Murray Body(1924-55)- 7590 Russell, 1975 Clay Ave
Pontiac Body Co. - (1902-1916) - Pontiac > Oakland
Sievers & Erdman-(1875-1910)- Brush & Woodbridge, Jefferson & Beaubien
Springfield Body Co.(?)- ??? Detroit, cb
Standard Wagon Works-(188?-1908)- Albert Fisher (uncle) Fisher#1?
W.F. Stewart Co.-(1868-1939) - Flint, Pontiac, Grand Blanc, >GM
Testagruzza Brothers Body Co - 1950s - Oxford, Michigan, fiberglass
Towson Body Co. -(1922-1925) -1424 Aberle Av Detroit, Michigan (Anderson Body Co.?) >Murray
Trippensee Mfg.(1908-2?)- 2679 East Grand Blvd, cb, bought by Everitt
Wadsworth Mfg-( 1919-25)-Kercheval and Conners > Chrysler (MI Steel Boat Co.)
Wayne Foundry & Stamping Co (1939->)- 3100 Hubbard Ave
J.C. Widman & Co. -(1900-1925) - Trombley and Orleans St > Murray
J.C. Widman & Co 15th St., Kirby St. & GTWRR
Wilson, C.R.-(1897-1924) 1600 Clay, Milwaukee Jct. cb . Murray
Wilson-Hayes Mfg. (1903-16)- 750 Bellevue Ave, cb


John McArthur of Detroit Michigan built the aluminum bodies for the DAC or Detroit Air-Cooled Car of 1922-23. Described as a veteran auto body builder.
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Bob_cosgrove
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Username: Bob_cosgrove

Post Number: 306
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 207.74.110.208
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are two "Belt Railways" in Detroit. The Inner Belt was the Michigan Central line that ran between Beaufait and Bellevue. After passing under East Jefferson and servicing the Morgan & Wright later UniRoyal) tire plant it turned west and became the Michigan Central controlled Detroit Transit Railway.

The Transit railway ran on Franklin and Wight streets almost to the Grand Trunk's Dequindre cut east of St. Aubin. It served numerous waterfront industries including Parke, Davis & Company pharmaceuticals, Michigan Stove Company, Riley Stoker, Berry Brothers Paint & Vanish, etc.

The Outer Belt still exists. Officially, it is the Detroit Terminal line (owned equally by the Grand Trunk Western, Lake Shore & Michigan Southern and the Michigan Central - the latter two being subsidiaries of the New York Central). It paralles between St. Jean and Connor crossing East Jefferson to the DTE Point on the Detroit River.

The Outer Belt went around the city and some of the western end has been removed.

Bob Cosgrove
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 2635
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 24.22.82.162
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jjaba congratulates Hornwrecker on his list.
A real comprehensive piece of work.

Thanks, jjaba.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2060
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All addresses from 1925-1926:

American Motor Body Corp 12262 Kercheval

From page 3; "American Motor body was bought by Chrysler in 1925 giving them a 700,000 sq ft body manufacturing plant. This came to be known as the Chrysler Kercheval plant."}

http://atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/40097.jpg

I also have an American body & Wagon Works 1623 Michigan Av

O.J. Beaudette Walnut St, Pontiac (no number)
Clayton & Lambert Mfg. Co. sheet metal stamping 6282 Beaubien
Columbia Body Co. 49 Selden
Detroit Auto Products Co. auto supplies 701 Livingston Av
Fabric Body Corp. office 12-224 General Motors Bldg
Gotfredson Body Corp 3100 Meldrum Av
Guider-Sweetland Co. auto trimmers 10226 Woodward Av
Model Body Corp 7201 Six Mile Rd
Sievers & Erdman Co automobile painting 320 Beaubien (same as Erdman-Guider)
W.F. Stewart Co 1023 Harriet, Flint
Trippensee Closed Body Corp 5685 12th St corner Stanley Av
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 4821
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker, I plan to cross refence that list against some old Polk's on this side and see if there were any "branch plants".
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2063
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Auto Body Manufacturers" Polk's 1925-1926


body1
body2
body3
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 1004
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.122.57
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 10:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There were a couple mentions (and even a separate thread) about the Packard Proving Grounds earlier this year, but somehow the dedication of their new historic marker was overlooked. I saw an article on the front page of this week's Tech Center News and checked out the Packard Proving Grounds website to find that the marker was dedicated back in August.

"On Wednesday, August 17, 2005, a ceremony was held at the Packard Proving Grounds Historic Site to dedicate a State of Michigan Historical Marker containing the following text: The Packard Motor Car Company began building a proving ground on this site in 1926. Packard, like its competitors, had previously tested cars on city streets. Architect Albert Kahn designed the principal buildings. By 1929 the complex included the Gate Lodge, warehouses, laboratories, a high-speed test track, and twelve miles of roads simulating the worst conditions of the day. During World War II (1941-1945) Packard built aircraft and marine engines while leasing the grounds to Chrysler for tank testing. Packard ceased production in 1958, and the Ford Motor Company purchased the site in 1961. In 2000 Ford and the Packard Motor Car Foundation began working to preserve the design complex portion of the site.

The backside of the marker contains this additional text: In 1899 brothers James Ward and William Doud Packard founded the Ohio Automobile Company in Warren, Ohio. In 1902 Detroiter Henry Joy and several other local investors purchased the company, moved it to Detroit and renamed it the Packard Motor Car Company. During the 1920s and 1930s, Packard set the standard for luxury and design. Under the direction of chief engineer Jesse G. Vincent, Packard, known as “America’s Master Motor Builder,” also made advances in aviation technology. Vincent contributed to the development of the Liberty aircraft engine during World War I and predicted the growth of commercial aviation. He considered a proving ground to be essential to high quality.

Over 100 people attended the ceremony including local business people, civic leaders, senators, representatives, and officials from Ford. ..."

Here's a link to their page with photos, including one of the marker:http://www.packardmotorfdn.org /Marker%20dedication%20page.ht m

Planning a drive out to Shelby Township to see the marker and enjoy a meal at the Packard Grill!!!
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 2066
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.43.15.105
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are a few pics of Cadillac's Clark Street factory during the war.

Cadillac won an Army-Navy Production Award ("E" Flag) in December, 1942. I could say that it's similar to a Ford Q1 flag, but that doesn't seem right, does it? Anyway, a few generals, a marching band, and Mayor Jeffries came to the plant to give some congratulatory speeches to the workers:

ceremony

Jeffries

Cadillac started war production in March, 1939. Their first task was to build parts for liquid-cooled aircraft engines. In 1941 they started building a light tank, the M-5, followed by other models later in the war. It was for their output of M-5 tanks that they won the award.

A brochure from the awards ceremony shows a few pictures of the factory. The first two are peacetime production and the last two, war time production, demonstrating how Cadillac was suited for both. I suppose the last night shot emphasizes how the factory was in production around the clock.

1

2

3

4

5
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 296
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.40.13
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I was clicking through what seemed like hundreds of pages on that web site, I was wondering if this angle of attack would be useful for tracing some of these OCFs. I'm glad that this may prove to be useful, and unleash the urban explorers to see if any of these still exist.

Thanks for the info Mikem, and I'll update the CB list (when I feel like it), adding new addresses and builders, and for the Gray stuff. I think I can find some photos of the cars and maybe a factory now.

One thing that I found interesting was that the Cadillac stamping plant on Conner, nee Hudson, was originally built for Clayton and Lambert in 1925 by Albert Kahn. Hudson must have really wanted that capacity, as the plant was only a few years old when they bought it in 29. It might have been mentioned before in this thread, or another, but I may have completely forgotten about it.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 297
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.40.13
Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Production E is like the Navy Battle E that is awarded to the top performing ship of each type, in each fleet, on its yearly workups and inspections. It was, and still is a big deal; today the E is awarded as a ribbon, and in the past an E was sewn onto ones uniform sleeve.

Somewhere I have a Production E lapel pin that was given to the employees. I imagine there was much boasting in the local beer gardens after work, when you walked in wearing it back then.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 306
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.33
Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gray sign

I finally have some limited info to add about Gray Motors. Looking at a bunch of ads, their original plant was on Lieb St, near Larned. This one seemed to have an address that was under constant change, or copy editors had worse eyesight than I do. Lieb shows up as: 18, 24, 31, 33, 37, and 124; it might have been long building.

Gray Motors Lieb St

The next address I found on a letterhead is 614 Charlotte near Woodward (1911)

Gray Motors Charlotte St

An enlargement of the plant from a better source:

Gray Motors Charlotte St 2

The address that I found on Mack was 2102 Mack Ave. No photo of factory found yet...

An ad for the 1923 Gray:

Gray 1923 ad

...and the car.

Gray auto

Other addresses: (1912) 11309 GMC Bldg, 160 US Motors Bldg, (1906) 447 Gouin St., and (1926) 220 Lafayette, east of Canton.

There is and address for a Canadian plant in Walkerville, it is either 31 or 614 River Front Drive (1910).

(Message edited by Hornwrecker on October 26, 2005)
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 4833
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Humm... River Front Dr ? Riverside maybe? However it was called Sandwich St. back then... Sounds like some further investigation is required. I'll have to go through the 1910 Polk's and see what I come up with...
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 4834
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, I had an email today from a Gentelman is Switzerland. He found the thread through Google, and is looking for some information. Maybe we can help him out....

He bought an old American car. It is a 1913 Wahl from Detroit. He was able to find 3089 E. Grand Boulevard in old magazine ads from 1913-14, as the factory address. He was wonder if the factory was still around? If the numbering system is similar today as it was in 1913, that would put it near the intersection of Woodward..

He found that Bate had posted a little about Wahl in #3, and is signing up for an account to information hunt.

Any ideas?
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 4835
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Could this be the answer to the above Hornwrecker?


quote:

Gray-Dort's originated in the Chatham carriage works of William Gray & Sons Company Ltd, founded in 1855 by William Gray.

In the mid 1900's Robert Gray (William's Father, then president of the company) began to build Ford bodies for the Walkerville Factory. They continued to do so until 1912. During this period, they also built bodies for the locally built Chatham car.

In 1915 Robert Gray obtained the Canadian rights to manufacture the Dort Automobile from Flint automobile manufacturer J. Dallas Dort, of the Dort Motor Co., and that year Gray-Dort was formed. They produced two cars the first year, a Model 4 roadster, and a Model 5 touring car.

Over the years Gray-Dort became known for their cars of reliable quality--ones that easily started in all weather conditions.

In 1923, after several years of successful but stressful business, J. Dallas Dort decided he wanted out of the automobile business. Try as he might, Robert Gray could not dissuade him. A few months later, Dallas Dort died while playing golf. Their easy access to U.S. sources of engineering and mechanical parts having abruptly come to a close, the company began to lose money. Gray-Dort scrambled to find new a U.S. based partner to no avail, and the last few years of its life were spent liquidating assets.

Over the course of it's lifetime, Gray-Dort manufactured around 26,000 quality automobiles


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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 307
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.33
Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a closeup of the street name, though I question the address, because I've seen the same number used for both Detroit and Walkervile in the ads, the other 614.

Gray 1910 ad

Here's a postcard of Windsor that I found from around 1900. In the bottom of the card is Gray carriage makers, not affiliated with Gray Motors, that is until they got together with Gray-Dort from Chatam and London, during the 1920s.

Windsor 1900
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 4836
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have that postcard. That is not Walkerville, and is in those days, not close. :-)

I think a trip to sort through the directories may be in order. Sadly they aren't always accurate either!
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