Discuss Detroit Hall of Fame Threads Old Car Factories Old Car Factories - 20
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5355
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.156.92.83
Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 5:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was at a postcard show this AM here in Windsor, and I came up with this Postcard. I don't recall this photo being posted in the last year, but it's hard to keep track :-)

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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3221
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 9:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

AIW, please turn it over and tell us the captioned address. Is this on Rotunda Drive, Dearborn, USA? Are we looking directly at Henry Ford's corner office?

jjaba, Westsider.
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5357
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.156.92.83
Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 1:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jjaba, caption reads:

"MAIN OFFICE BUILDING

The main office of the Ford Motor Company is located at the Rouge Plant, Dearborn. It is a spacious building of white limestone. The first three floors are devoted entirely to offices of which there more than 200. Cafeteria and dining rooms are located on the top floor."
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 1182
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.122.57
Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 10:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the book ROUGE: Pictured in its Prime: Covering the Years 1917-1940 by Ford R. Bryan (Detroit: Wayne State University Press, 2003)...

Chapter 39: Administration Building (p. 240)

"Facing West on Schaefer Road, the administration building was at the far northwest corner of the Rouge property. Designed by Albert Kahn, constructed during 1927, and first occupied on January 26, 1928, this building became the headquarters of Ford Motor Company operations worldwide. ...

The front and sides of this new administration building were finished in white Indiana limestone; the rear wall and garage were of steel and brick construction. THe four-story building with two spacious wings featured a large top-floor cafeteria and rooftop promenade overlooking the Rouge Plant to the east and residential countryside to the west.

The administration building not only housed elegant private offices for Henry and Edsel Ford but also provided administrative headquarters for Ford Motor Company business functions such as purchasing, sales and advertising, accounting and auditing, legal, real estate, and personnel. For a short time, Ford's DT&I Railroad had its main office in this building. ..."

An accompanying photo caption reads: "The Ford Motor Company's administration building....viewed from the top of the Ford Rotunda looking east toward the Rouge manufacturing plant. ..."

So this building on Schaefer Road stood directly across from the Rotunda.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 875
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.26
Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 10:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Sanborn for Gear Grinding on 3921 Christopher in Hamtramack, photos on pages 5 & 6. To the left is a GTW car repair facility, RIP (Repair In Place) track.

Gear Grinding Co

Mikem, that map of Warner that I posted with an address of 20263 Hoover, is the building that has the supspected Parducci castings that you posted photos of, way back at the beginning of this thread.
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5359
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.156.92.83
Posted on Sunday, March 05, 2006 - 10:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HW, I'm pretty sure that that is the same building MikeM posted.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 886
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.87
Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 10:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

... and it only took a year for confirmation.

I found a photo of the Grabowsky Power Wagon factory on 1801 Mt Elliot, Sanborn map posted page 18. Photo from The Legacy of Albert Kahn, Ferry, WSU Press. Built 1907, just before they moved to Pontiac and became Rapid Truck, and eventually GMC.

Grabowsky factory Mt Elliot 1907

This factory was later used by the Columbian Electric Car Company from 1914-17. After that???

An early Grabowsky bus.

Grabowsky bus

Do we have any addresses for Champion Spark Plug? I know there was another factory besides the one that eventually built the Dodge Viper near Conner & 8. I vaguely remember going to an older Champion plant when I was a child, somewhere near Jefferson?

(Message edited by Hornwrecker on March 06, 2006)
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 898
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.221
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 1:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This new message was posted on the wrong page instead of the current one. Since I don't have the power to move it, and it seems our moderators are asleep, I'll paste it here:


quote:



Photoall
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Username: Photoall

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8

Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 2:35 am: Edit PostDelete Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I have a framed photo
Labell Funeral Motor Cars
patented April 8, 1913
Owned and operated by
Labell funeral Motor Car Co. office and garage
390 third Avenue, detroit, Mich.
telephone Grand 3226
Office open Night and Day
I am looking for any information on this company.
Also I am interested in selling this 12x24 black wood frame. it has some water damage but you can see the 2 funeral coaches open and closed sides..
I haven't taken it out of glass because I think it will damage the photo. Looks like it may be stuck to glass and don't know what to do to loasen it. Thanks email at photoallisme@aol.com if interested.
I have enjoyed looking at the old car factories sites especially because i have a 1938 buick model 48 2-door all original. straight eight engine and 6-volt electrical.
thanks
Al




Welcome Al. I don't have Labell listed in the db, so I can't help you, but the info gives us a place to start. Try searching around at:

http://www.coachbuilt.com/
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5370
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.48.208.18
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 11:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are a few vintage Avderts I came acorss today as I was going through Microfilm...

Canadian Motor Lamp - 1937

cml

Motor Products Corporation - A divison of or bought out by GM?

mpl

Kelsey Wheel Corp. 1954

kwc

H.V. Welles Ltd. - A bus maker. I later worked in their second factory.

w1
w2
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5371
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.48.208.18
Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 11:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is another old Windsor Postcard - Postmarked - 1926 - However note the Maxwell factory. I belive that by 26 Maxwell had become Chrysler.

pc

stude

kelsey

maxwell
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Cklwbig8
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Username: Cklwbig8

Post Number: 31
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 67.71.65.209
Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 12:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

AIW... do you have a photo of the old chrysler hq on tecumseh road ?
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5372
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.48.208.18
Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 9:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was actually just south of Tecumseh on Chrysler Center Dr., but I know what you're saying.

I shot it in April 2003, shortly before demolition. By the end of May it was gone.

Here are a few for you.

1

2

3
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Cklwbig8
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Username: Cklwbig8

Post Number: 45
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 64.228.208.168
Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 11:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awesome thanks Aiw.. my father told me there was an older chrysler building actually facing tecumseh rd on the corner. He said it was torn down many years ago. ???
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 914
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.245
Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 12:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 1921 Sanborn for what became the Detroit-Air-Cooled factory, on 3745 Cass near Selden, from 1922-23. Later moved the the ex-Swift factory in Wayne, MI. The Cass Ave building was sold to the Stephens auto distribution company.

Detroit Air Cooled factory, Cass Ave

I wonder if it's still standing, or what is there now? Across the street was a battery service station for electric cars.
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Raul1983
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Username: Raul1983

Post Number: 14
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 80.186.212.176
Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 3:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


1904 NORTHERN. Smooth running. Have no equal.


1906 NORTHERN. The Northern Limousine in every respect equals cars sold for twice or even three times the money.


1906 NORTHERN. In strength, the Silent Northern is not excelled.


1906 NORTHERN. Absolutely noiseless. So silent in operation that it has been nick-named "The Ghost".
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 915
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.40.152
Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 10:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I never really managed to peg down an address for Northern; the best is that it was next to the Detroit Stove Works on East Jefferson, 1902-08, a time when info is sparse. Later absorbed into EMF.

I did find the Labell Fun. Car Co on 390 Third near Henry, labeled as a garage with a capacity of 40 cars. Right behind it, and also above, was a branch of the Detroit Creamery, also close to Cass Tech., Jjaba'a bailiwick.

Labell Funeral Car Co

As to that Motor Products ad that Aiw posted, it reminded me of something in the db. Cricket Cyclecar is listed as being on 80 Walker St in 1913-14, and later sold to Motor Products. This is the same street from that ad, so I wonder if a Windsor maker got confused for Detroit. (I looked at the maps, and it doesn't look like there was anything on Walker that could have been it.) Coincidence?

Another Windsor lead is that Detroit Steam Car, 1922-23, made at Schlieder Mfg factory (no address) aka Trask-Detroiter, might have also had a Windsor Steam Car factory. Not sure if it really existed, or was just in the plans.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3285
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 1:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That Windsor Chrysler bldg. was a beaudy, eh. Sad to see it torn down but we know that AIW is proud of the new downtown DCI-Canada HQ bldg.

Thanks for the mention Hornwrecker. Third and Henry is hard by Cass Tech. High School awright.
Labell Fun Car is slightly before jjaba's tenure in high school.

jjaba's family was a customer of Detroit Creamery's horse drawn delivery services.

jjaba, Westsider.
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Photoall
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Username: Photoall

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 4:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for moving my email about Labell Funeral Motor cars. I am new here and just posted it to see if i could get any info on it. i noticed a map with the Labell address at 390 third.
That is the same address that is on this photo I have.
Photo reads Labell funeral motor cars
patented april 8, 1913.
Office and garage 390 third Ave. Detroit, Mich Telephone Grand 3226. Office open Day and Night
I would be intereested in any information that comes available abouit this company.
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Raul1983
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Username: Raul1983

Post Number: 15
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 80.186.212.176
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 4:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker: I have no idea either. All of the ads just say "Detroit". According to Standard Catalog of American Cars Northern was made in Detroit in 1902-1908 just like you said. In 1907 another plant was opened in Port Huron for manufacture of two-cylinder cars. Is that town near Detroit ?
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 94
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.106
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raul1983--double check any data you quote from the standard catalog of American cars--they are great books, and highly informative, but not 100% on their facts and figures. Not to be critical, Those books must have been a monumental task to assemble.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 922
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.40.160
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't trust anything but a Sanborn map, original photos or building, and maybe some musty paperwork in NAHC for an address. I think most ads, and even letterheads left them off thinking "Hell, we're well known, and be here forever."

Here are three from the Sanborn on Conant, behind Dodge Main, that lay beneath the Poletown plant.

Dodge Truck #3 8019 Conant Ave, formerly Graham Bros. Truck in yellow, Vulcan Motor Axle Co 7881 Conant, in green, and Steel Products Co 7757 Conant, makers of auto parts in blue. The latter two are new entries into the parts db.

Conant  Ave factories
Conant  Ave factories

Michigan Central (Belt Line) RR to left, and ladder track for Dodge Main.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3305
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In a related matter, KIA Motors Company just announced they are opening a plant in West Point, Georgia, USA. 2,500 jobs!

Sign of the times. Detroit looks backward and the South rises again.

jjaba, tells it like it tis.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 929
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.14
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 4:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another misplaced new post, since I don't have the power to move it, I'll cut & paste it where it belongs:


quote:

Little_buddy
MemberUsername: Little_buddy

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 206.148.113.91

alking about the Fleetwood plant on Fort st. I worked there in the late 70's. Someone above in the posts had a picture facing towards downtown. I worked on the 6th floor. the car bodies came up from the paint shop connected to the 3rd floor(not the main building). The first thing put on was the trunk lock, then the door handles, glue sprayed for the headliners and then the back window. I think the building next to the main plant going towards downtown was a warehouse storing seats that were brought over on a conveyor system across the road. Most of the warehouse was vancant, kind of spooky wandering around in it at times. Anyone ever work there?





Welcome to the forum L-b. I don't recollect anyone else working there, but am interested in learning more about it.

Anyway to shut that page down, or redirect the posts to the proper place?

Hornwrecker
OCF custodial engineer
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Kahnman
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Username: Kahnman

Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 66.15.63.91
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 5:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker, forgive me for not sifting through all of these posts for the answer, but where are you getting those Sanborn maps? Are they an online collection that anyone can access or are you scanning your own maps and posting them? Most of the sanborn maps online are tightly guarded behind passwords. Thanks
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 932
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.14
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 5:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, they are. Thanks for asking. :-)

Funny, but Boston and NY libraries have theirs available online, according to searches I've done. I wonder why other places don't.
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Kahnman
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Username: Kahnman

Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 66.15.63.91
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 6:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay Hw, fair enough answer. It's a trade secret, right? Sanborn has a tight fist on the maps. An entity has to have a paid subscription to use their maps. Most libraries only allow their own patrons to access the db. I guess Boston and NY are swimming in enough money they kick them loose to anyone!
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Aiw
Member
Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5390
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.48.208.18
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 8:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trade secret indeed!

Here's a mystery place in Windsor. I've never been able to track its history down.

http://internationalmetropolis .com/?p=100
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Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 934
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.139
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 1:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is the aerial photo from 1949 of the area of Conant behind Dodge Main showing how the three buildings were incorporated into a larger complex. The colors correspond to the earlier posted Sanborn map, the font used is Dodger, the same font from the old Dodge ads. Some of the originals are still evident in the overhead except most of Vulcan Axle.

Conant Ave factories aerial 1949
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5391
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 1:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This was posted on an archived folder of OCF:


quote:



Little_buddy
Member
Username: Little_buddy

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 206.148.113.91
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 2:30 pm:

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
Talking about the Fleetwood plant on Fort st. I worked there in the late 70's. Someone above in the posts had a picture facing towards downtown. I worked on the 6th floor. the car bodies came up from the paint shop connected to the 3rd floor(not the main building). The first thing put on was the trunk lock, then the door handles, glue sprayed for the headliners and then the back window. I think the building next to the main plant going towards downtown was a warehouse storing seats that were brought over on a conveyor system across the road. Most of the warehouse was vancant, kind of spooky wandering around in it at times. Anyone ever work there?


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Aiw
Member
Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5393
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 1:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ooops! I don't know how I skipped over your post...
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Bate
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Username: Bate

Post Number: 69
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.101.227.115
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 9:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think little_buddy has a possible answer to my "whats the Fleetwood Plant conveyor for" question. A warehouse for sending trim to the main plant works for me, thanks. Bate
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Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 936
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.154
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 11:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is that conveyor the part that is still standing at the ex-Fleetwood plant?

I've had this photo from the LOC for a long time of the yard behind Dodge Main. I was never sure where the photo was taken from, but after doing that aerial of the old factories on Conant, it became obvious that it was taken from the roof of the amalgamated buildings.

Dodge Main rail yard
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Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 940
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.251
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 10:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aerial photo of Cadillac Fleetwood, aka Fisher #18, originally Fleetwood Metal Body Co. 261 West End Ave & West Fort St. In operation from 1926 to 1980 according to the db. (Just to the right of it is the Detroit United Produce Terminal, see Detroit's 2nd Train Terminal thread's latest entry for aerial.)



Cadillac Fleetwood/Fisher #18
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Bate
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Username: Bate

Post Number: 70
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.101.227.115
Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 7:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, conveyor is the part that is still standing at the ex-Fleetwood plant on the roof of building the stands on West End side. Period images posted earlier on OCF show the building connected to the main plant at aprox. 3rd floor level. With the above repost we might conclude the (current) standing building might have been a trim warehouse that used the conveyor to move bulky interior items (seats) into the main plant as production required. I have more current photos of the building, and conveyor, still in the camera. I will post for the out-of-towners later.
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5406
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.228.67.25
Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 10:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went chminey chasing late last week....

McCord Radiator's former factory is still standing on Walker Rd. in Windsor. However the Gotfredson Plant is long gone. It's a surface lot today.

00

01
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Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 948
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.152
Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 10:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That building needs something...



Yup, hood ornaments.

Sorry
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3379
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 2:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whose ornaments exactly?

Five guesses:

Desoto, Hupmobile, Leland, Edsel, Packard.

Send prize, what does jjaba win?

jjaba.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 120
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 24.172.179.131
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 9:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those ornaments are the Rolls Royce "Spirit of ecstasy(sp?) lady.
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Aiw
Member
Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5408
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.228.67.25
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 9:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I put up the Seagrave factory in Windsor on my website today: Segrave Photos
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Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 951
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.200
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 2:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I couldn't find the correct photo angle of a Detroit marque for the hood ornament, so settled for the RR since it's a Commonwealth country. It took a lot longer to find the flying lady than it did to doctor the photo.

That building front just screams brass era radiator.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3383
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 2:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hornwrecker has given us a debate here. There's nothing about Rolls Royce in Windsor history.

Of a universe of hood ornaments, logotypes of radiator factories, or promotional literature about Canadian cars, he comes up with a limey English excuse.

Horn..., what were you thinking? (Given Horn's unswerving attention to details.)

jjaba.
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Toolbox
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Username: Toolbox

Post Number: 850
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.184.29.148
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 3:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Jjaba
Hornwrecker has given us a debate here. There's nothing about Rolls Royce in Windsor history.




Not Windsor but Ypsi. RR used the HydraMatic transmission produced at Willow Run.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3392
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 3:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Toolbox. That was a great come-backer post. This Forum amazes jjaba. The base of knowledge jes toff the cuff is incredible.

jjaba.
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Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 952
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.69
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 4:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Jjaba, I chose expediency over accuracy for the joke. I momentarily forgot which forum I was on, trying to be the first one in with the Photoshop, or perhaps the new owners blinged the place up, and replaced the original Hupp ones.

In my defense, I blame the hours I spent working on those maps for the train thread,... or I'll just use the fact Toolbox pointed out, that RRs used GM trannys.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3395
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 4:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ah, Ypsilanti and Windsor, in the International Metroplex so highly touted by Lowell. Ok, Hornwrecker bailed out by Toolbox.

It still was a GREAT and creative joke.
jjaba can't take that away from Hornwrecker. Also, this is a misguided exerior "improvement" in current state so any changes don't need historical authenticity anyways.

But a Ford Cortina, a Ford Windsor Engine, Seagrave, hell, a jug of Canadian Club logo would have been way cool.

jjaba, Fan of Hornwrecker's research.
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Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 954
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.142
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 10:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While researching that three foot long series of posts in the train thread, I came across a new parts supplier: Liberty Starter Co. Plants #1 & #3 at 2282 W Jefferson & 15th, and Plant #2 at 2360 W Jefferson. These are from 1921.

Liberty Starter #1 & #3

Liberty Starter Co #1 & #3


Liberty Starter #2

Liberty Starter #2

Above #2, on W Fort, is a place labeled Fender and Sheet Metal Works. The glass place to the right is Toledo Plate and Window Glass warehouse, maybe did auto-glass (?).

Anyone not familiar with this area should look at these old maps of the steel viaduct to Fort St Union Depot, there's even an old Kelvinator factory in one of them.

(Message edited by Hornwrecker on March 20, 2006)
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Aiw
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Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 8:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Posted on my website today, another Windsor factory. Today it's the Canadian Motor Lamp factory.
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Aiw
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Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 10:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are a few from Sven's suggestions.

1

1919 Cadillac Aircraft Division Holbrook & Dequindre.

2

1919, Ford Aircraft division, north of Oakland in H.P.

3

1927, Ford Generator in Ypsilanti
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Sven1977
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Thanks Andrew. It's interesting to know that the car companies had aircraft divisions back in 1918. I've included a shot looking to the back of the Hudson/Cadillac plant on Connor.

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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 10:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think I already posted that Cadillac aircraft plant a few pages ago with the other factories in that area. Oh well, Aiw seems to make a habit of that. :-) The newest OCF db should solve some of this with its improved format when its out of beta.

Here's an oldie, the Detroit Electric Car Co factory, 731 10th St. & West Lafayette. 1907-38, bought out by Anderson.


Detroit Electric Car Co

I like the horse shoeing in the alley behind the fire station.

(Message edited by Hornwrecker on March 23, 2006)
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Aiw
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Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 12:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't blame me, blame Sven, it was his idea! :-)

Besides this is the longest runnig thread in the history of the forum, there's probably things that have been posted three times :-)
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Sven1977
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Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 10:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I probably didn't remember because I didn't post it. I finally got a library card to explore the Burton Library for maps and, well, I'm like a Huppmobile rusting behind someone's garage. No use except for the squirrels running over my engine block.
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 12:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that these WWI factories were mostly temporary ones erected to manufacture Liberty engines, V-8s & V-12s. I know that GM, Cadillac (McGraw and Holbrook) and Buick (coming soon), and Packard made them in Detroit.

I'm not sure if the Ford in HP was in on it, or if that was separate Ford Aviation factory. I think that there's a recent book about it out there

Where's our intrepid birdman? He should know more about Liberty engines in Detroit, or Ford planes.

I've been going through all of the pages and putting in the page numbers on which Sanborn maps appear, so we can keep track of them. Also experimenting with some colo(u)r coding for types, and the fate of the structure. Big gaps in if the building is still standing are now readily apparent.
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 1:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This Sanborn is labeled as Buick #75, aka Saxon, aka Scripps-Booth, aka LaSalle, aka DeSoto, aka Chrysler McGraw Glass. I think I got all of the names in.

The address on the map is 9416 Saxon (Ford) Rd & Wyoming, built 1917, empty on this 1924 map. The buildings are labeled as if this was a Buick auto assembly plant, but other sources say it made Liberty engines for WWI.

Buick #75
Buick #75
Buick #75

The long thing on the right hand side with the two rail tracks is a loading platform for autos.

The more I learn about this factory, the more confusing I find it.
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Sven1977
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Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 2:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does "Closed Car" mean hardtop vs. a fabric top?
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56packman
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"closed car" (circa late teens-late twenties)normally is a term describing a sedan or coupe with a metal sheathed body W/fabric "soft" insert roof, doors with windows that lower and raise--an enclosed car, as opposed to a touring car, which was basically a 4 door convertible without side windows (would have snap-in fabric/eisenglass panels) most cars were either touring cars or "runabouts" (=roadster). Closed cars initally were only found on very expensive models, Hudson's Essex brand pioneered the affordable closed car starting with the 1924 models, all other volume manufacturers followed by the end of the twenties.
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Sven1977
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On the Old Movie Theater thread there's a Sanborn Map of the Ford Service building on Woodward. It's not a factory but seems to have been a place where painting was done. Does anyone know any details about what really went on there?
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Hornwrecker
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Sven, the only thing that I could find out is that it was Ford Sales & Service from 1909-19. So it was only used by Ford while Highland Park was in production. Everything moved to Dearborn when Rouge opened.

I'm guessing that they did dealer prep type stuff in the 1st floor, rear part.

Ford Service could really be anything from fixing cars, worker morality inspections or busting heads, as the later head of it was Harry Bennet. Someone who knows Ford history would probably know more.

http://www.uawlocal245.org/his tory.asp
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Livedog2
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I am new to the "Discussion Forum" for DetroitYes! I was drawn to register because I ran across this "Old car factories" thread yesterday. I found it to be the most informative discussion group of its kind I have ever encountered. Coming from five (5) generations of automobile workers I come by my interest of cars and the automobile industry honestly. My father worked for Harley Earl at the GM Tech Center and my grandfather worked for Dodge Main from 1917-53. I am very interested in learning all I can about the automobile industry from so many contributors to this thread that are obviously very knowledgeable. This is my first posting!
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Jjaba
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Livedog2, we know #1. Welcome. So here's your first challenge.

See what you can tell The Froum about the Ford Service Bldg., Woodward @ Grand Boulevard, Detroit. There was a huge theater next door to the North of it.

In 1964, jjaba and his CORE friends busted an Italian barbershop in the bldg., when it was the State of Mich. Economic Security Comission. That's it, black people couldn't get a haircut in the State Unemployment Bldg. He learned to cut Afros in a hurry after we sent his ass directly to the State Human Rights Office.

jjaba, Westside hellraiser.
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56packman
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Livedog2--welcome! there are many learned men here, we enjoy the fruits of their knowledge. Did your father have to strap blocks on his shoes to evauate work, or was he as tall as Earl?
Oh, and another thing, did your grandfather work "AT" Dodge main or did he work "BY" dodge main?
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Livedog2
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Dear Jjaba, You put me on the spot right away with that question about the Ford Services Bldg. on Woodward @ Grand Boulevard in Detroit. I think it might have been the Regent Theatre @ 7314 Woodward Ave. right at the corner of Grand Blvd. It opened in 1916 and I have included a photo of the theatre and maybe the Ford Services Bldg.

I never heard anything about my father having "to strap blocks on his shoes to evacuate work" but he was 6'2" maybe that was tall enough. Most of my stories about Harley Earl were of the human nature sort. My favorite vehicle conceived by Harley Earl is the Futureliner.

My grandfather worked "AT" Dodge Main and he was a metal finisher. As the cars rooled off the line he went to work on the cars to take any dings, bumps or impurities out of the finish on the cars. All of his tools were hand made in a hand made tool chest all of which he made. He was a union organizer back in the days when you put your life on the line doing union organizing. He was a member of local 3 and woked at the plant from 1917 till the day he died on August 30, 1953.

I have some photos of his tool chest and the tools that he crafted.Another view of the Regent Theatre on Woodward Ave @ Grand Blvd
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Livedog2
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Tool chest and tools my grandfather made and used @ Dodge Main.

Tool chest and tools

Tool chest and tools view 2
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Livedog2
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Harley Earl with his concept car the Lesabre the name used later for a Buick model.

Harley Earl in the concept car named Lesabre
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Livedog2
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My favorite Harley Earl creation/design the Futureliner.

The Futureliner
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 12:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is the uncropped photo of the Ford Sales and Service Building, 7310 Woodward, Albert Kahn, 1909. It was already something else when this photo was taken after 1919, the Wayne County Savings Bank. The original building had four stories, additional four were added in 1913.

Ford Sales and Service Bldg
Legacy of Albert Kahn, Ferry, WSU Press

http://wsupress.wayne.edu/glb/art/ferrylak.htm
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 11:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is the 1921 Sanborn map of where the Anhut/Barnes factory was located, 510 Howard St., from 1909-10. I can't find much else about this short lived maker named after a state senator; the company folded due to financial shenanigans.

On this map, G&G Mfg,2120 Howard, shares the joined buildings with Michigan Wire Cloth Co., and the back part of one wing houses the Disco Electric Starter Co at 1279 Wabash. Searching the web for "Disco Starter" turns up some interesting things, mostly dealing with mirrored balls and platform shoes.

G&G Mfg- Auto Parts

Disco Electric Starter Co
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Kathleen
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An update on the Packard site in Shelby Township, plus Macomb County's automotive heritage inventory....

"The former Packard Proving Grounds in Shelby Township will be included in a new effort to recognize Macomb County's contribution to southeast Michigan automotive history.

Elected officials and local history buffs have formed a committee to identify Macomb sites that will be part of the MotorCities National Heritage Area.

...

Among them is the Packard property. For the past four years, members of the Packard Motor Car Foundation have been working to restore a portion of the former 312-acre proving grounds on Van Dyke between 22 Mile and 23 Mile from a forgotten piece of property to a working historical site.

Gone is the overgrown brush that obscured a 1927-vintage Albert Kahn-designed lodge where engineers stayed while on assignment. A fresh coat of paint has been added to the water tower, and the timing tower is in the midst of reconstruction. ..."

Full story at: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060331/M ETRO03/603310386/1014
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Hornwrecker
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I think the Packard Proving grounds are about the only worthy preservation target in Macomb county for the industry. I can't see them saving DIVCO on Hoover.

Since Sven hasn't posted this yet, I'll sneak in the Rickenbacker (1922-27) Sanborn from 1924, on 4815 Cabot, Albert Kahn, still standing photo on page 2 of the OCF thread.



Rickenbacker
Rickenbacker
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Hornwrecker
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Well, this isn't OCF or Detroit related, but in NYC, while prepping a building for demolition near the entrance of the Holland Tunnel, and interesting old terracotta sign was uncovered of an old auto.



This was hiding behind a metal sign.



The article is here, if you are registered at the NYT.

NYT article
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Raul1983
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Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 3:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good job Hornwrecker. Let's keep this place alive.

Packard from Detroit, Michigan.



1904 Packard



1905 Packard truck. In this ad it's "Department C"



1906 Packard. From this ad on it's "Department B"



1906 Packard



1908 Packard



1908 Packard
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Hornwrecker
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I think I finally nailed down steam car maker that's been eluding me for awhile. The Detroit Steam Car Co, aka Trask-Detroit, 1922-23, was supposedly made at the Schlieder Mfg Co in Detroit, no address given, photo posted by Aiw back on page 6. I don't think they ever produced an automobile, so their cars were vapor in more ways than one.

December 1, 1921 Steam-Powered Car Announced:

The Detroit Steam Motors Corporation announced the Trask steam car, a favorite project of automobile distributor O.C. Trask. A steam-driven automobile had reached the world-record speed of 127.66 miles per hour in 1906, causing a steam-car craze that lasted through the 1920s. The last steam-powered cars in the U.S. were made in 1926.



I finally found the Schieder (sic) Mfg on a 1915 Sanborn map, at 2836 E Grand Blvd & Oakland.


Schlieder Mfg map


The photo from OCF pg 6

Schleider Mfg

Some background about the DSC/Trask vapor-car:

He became associated with the Detroit Steam Motors Corporation in Detroit, which introduced its first cars, called Trask-Detroit, in 1922. There was a plan to make Trask-Detroit's in Canada by Windsor Steam Motors in Windsor, across the river from Detroit. That would allow the cars to be sold in Canada with minimum tariffs, allowing favourable import treatment to other parts of the British Empire.

The Trask-Detroit was an assembled car, with the boiler, engine and related parts made by Schlieder Manufacturing Co., a Detroit valve manufacturer. It was to be a popular-priced steam car, something that had never been done (steam car engineering conspired with small production runs to require a high price). The basic model was a touring car to sell for $1,000. A larger model was announced in late 1923, with a sedan priced at $1,900. Bodies "...will be made by the Packard Motor Car Co..," stated the report in the Wall Street Journal. Packard quickly issued a denial. The Trask-Detroit soon vanished. As it did, the Brooks steam car appeared.


From the Steam Car Club of Great Britain web site:

http://www.steamcar.net/art-brooks.html
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56packman
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Hornwrecker--please email me at 56packman (at) twmi (dot) rr(dot) com
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Aiw
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Windsor Steam Motors is a new one to me... I doubt it ever got off the ground...
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Jjaba
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No, the steam cars were supposed to stay ON the ground.
JEEES!

jjaba.
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 10:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unlike the steam powered aero-planes:

Steam -Powered Aircraft

Steam Papers

Packman, I emailed you yesterday, but got no response. Try sending me one at:

(my username)@gmail.com
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Psip
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Ahhh, Steam Aeroplanes... had the advantage(?) of being able to almost instantly reverse the rotation direction of the propeller!
See:
http://www.archive.org/details /BeslerCo1932
(click on one of the video files to see it in action)
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 1:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 1929 map of the former Kessler Motor Co (1907-27) Plant #1 at 1297-1309 Terminal Ave south of E. Jefferson. Photo on page 12 of the OCF, maker of engines for Chalmers, and aircraft. Future Kess-Line, in the old Hupp-Yates, Liberty factory on Lycaste.


Kessler Motor Co plant 1

The photo shows what I think is the part at 1309, and was added on the south side. I have yet to find Plant #2.

Kessler Motor Co plant 1
NAHC

I wonder if it is still there.

(the font for Terminal Ave is Terminal)

(Message edited by Hornwrecker on April 14, 2006)
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Jjaba
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Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 12:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Always wonderful to see the Albert Kahn fenestration on these auto plants.

Thanks.
jjaba.
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 10:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, here's a weird one: Jjaba's always going on about all of the back alley shops that were around, and how everyone started one up. Well, this has got to be the strangest back-alley factory that I've ever seen.

I give you the Wheel Truing Brake Shoe Company of who the hell knows what address, from the 1921 Sanborn map . I'm going to say that it is around Beaubien and E. Willis, as the alley off of Willis looks like the main access.



Wheel Truing Brake Co 1921

The blue structure off of the alley from Canfield is an Edison sub-station in somebody's backyard. With the exception of a corner store, everything around it is D - single family dwellings, or F - apartment flats. That is another alley at the top of the map.

(Message edited by Hornwrecker on April 15, 2006)
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