Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2007 » Yet Another.... Strip Club On 8 Mile « Previous Next »
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Genesyxx
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Username: Genesyxx

Post Number: 714
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So we get some plans in today (I work for the city), requesting zoning to approve land for yet another strip club, this time on 8 Mile and Mound, the former site of Michigan Fun Center.

An hour later, a righteous (if you want to call 'em that) church clique here put out a petition opposing the new club. Apparently, they have legit information as well. Apparently, Detroit has at least 33 licensed strip clubs (I can believe that) and many more unlicensed clubs (I definately believe that). More than 40% of the licensed strip clubs in Michigan are in our city (sounds about right).

If you choose to oppose this, call Tyrone Miller, Director of BZA @ 313-224-3595 or email at cc-bza@ci.detroit.mi.us.

Actually, this is weird considering Mayor KK's appeal of new strip clubs downtown. Seems like this land was prime real estate, despite there being problems with the land itself. If this goes through, this will be a terrible decision.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9015
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is upsetting about the recent cases of people wanting to open strip clubs in the neighborhoods is that they rarely if ever live in or have any concern for the neighborhood.

The city has too many strip clubs and the area around there is residential. I hope the city shoots this down. We need jobs and business but we also need a decent environment for the children of the city, a strip club isn't going to do that.

Any idea on where the proposed owner lives (just city I wouldn't want his/her name and address bandied about)
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Udmphikapbob
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Username: Udmphikapbob

Post Number: 342
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They should keep the name "Michigan Fun Center".
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 29
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is an unlicensed strip club?
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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 1367
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think its called a dorm.
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Reetz12
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Username: Reetz12

Post Number: 174
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not much residential around the Michigan Fun Center....I think it would be a perfect "location" to put a new club.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 924
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The vice will go somewhere...
Might as well try to keep it legal?
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9016
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about the spin off vice? Strip club customers, in my opinion, are probably going to be a little more prone to looking for drugs, hookers, etc?

Reetz - What distances are you considering? I think that the spin off issues could have an effect on the radius of a mile or two. Just my opinion.

The city, as stated above has 33 strip clubs? Why is another needed?
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9017
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie =UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wl&q =

For the 'no residential around there' argument.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9018
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Link doesn't work but enter the address (6200 East 8 MIle Road, Detroit, MI) and choose satellite.

People need to stop the indifference towards the neighborhoods. The families and kids that live within a mile or so of that area don't need to deal another strip joint in the greater area.

There are a lot of QOL issues they face. If the city can prevent another I fully support them.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9019
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 9:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The vice will go somewhere...
Might as well try to keep it legal?



The 'vice' has 33 options in the city. The indifference towards families in the city is sometimes ridiculous.
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 75
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looking for a hooker?

What are strippers?

What goes on in these VIP areas of these clubs?

I would think picking up a hooker off of the streets would be a step down on the prostitute scale as opposed to “hooking” up w/ a stripper.

Are strip clubs open during the daytime hours?
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Reetz12
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Username: Reetz12

Post Number: 175
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

East and West between mound and sherwood. North and SOuth between Outer Drive and 9 mile is all commercial, no residential. That is the area I was speaking of. Compared to some other clubs; Covergirls right in the middle of a neighborhood, centerfolds on john r with residents right behind it, and others along eight mile that have residents right behing these establishments. That is why I felt this was a good location. This is similar to the Colesium, with no residents around the establishment.

Wow, I didn't realize there were 33 locations already in the city.
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Defendbrooklyn
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Username: Defendbrooklyn

Post Number: 143
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I sent my email...
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 30
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not seeing residential there
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9020
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where is 'there'. The mentality that this only will have an effect within a hundred yards of the area is ridiculouw.

What do you consider the radius for 'there'. As usual it is easy to be flippant or indifference towards neighborhoods that mean nothing to you. I can assure you that it means something to the families in the area.

If you think that the region needs more strip clubs I ask that you petition your city (Detroit or suburb) and your neighbors to have one within a short walk from your house. I'm sure you will get overwhelming success.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9021
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PS - I am also curious about what the people in Warren that live next to the factory think about this. I can't imaging they want this that close to them and their children either.

Hopefully they will get involved since they have a stake in it as well.
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Mg2007
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Username: Mg2007

Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The people of warren especially in that area by "michigan fun center: are getting real fed up up detroit letting all these strips clubs in cuz its turning 8mile into a red light district and its all the detroit side, im not sure you can find 1 strip joint on the northern side...im for putting the club there as the place is juts an abandon eye sore building right now and i hear the plans are really really nice
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9023
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The people of warren especially in that area by "michigan fun center: are getting real fed up up detroit letting all these strips clubs in cuz its turning 8mile into a red light district and its all the detroit side, im not sure you can find 1 strip joint on the northern side



I never said there was one but I suspect that families on both sides of 8 mile have issues with this and it will just be one more QOL issue that others foist upon them.

quote:

.im for putting the club there as the place is juts an abandon eye sore building right now and i hear the plans are really really nice



Awesome, a really nice strip club. That should be wonderful for the families in the greater area. Strip clubs do not do away and once this is there it will hurt the area neighborhoods and negate any hope to market the land for something better.
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 31
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First off, there is virtually no evidence that strip clubs increase crime rates any more than regular bars, second, the nearest housing by the Mich. Fun Club is 1/4 to 1/2 mile away and across a major road, it is not in an area kids will just randomly walk by
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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 1369
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think 8 Mile should be vice row, just as Delray should house our industry. Concentrating these markets help keep them away from the majority of people.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9024
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

First off, there is virtually no evidence that strip clubs increase crime rates



I will do some research but that is a pretty bold assumption.

quote:

the nearest housing by the Mich. Fun Club is 1/4 to 1/2 mile away and across a major road, it is not in an area kids will just randomly walk by



1/4 is 1320 feet, certainly not a long distance. Add in the fact that this strip club will stay in it's location and hurt any attempts to market that open space. Would you be OK with a strip club within 1300 feet of your children (if you have any). I don't know about you but I certainly would not support having to tell my kids not to ride their bikes 1300 feet 'that' way because there is a strip club. But that is what people like you think is acceptable for Detroit families.

Give me one benefit that will have for the city or the residents in the area? The tax revenue will be negligible. The increase in traffic will not help any neighboring business nor will it spur any new business. Why try to improve an area when we can settle for a strip joint, right?


Skulker is right about this place being dumbfuckistan sometimes.
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Jfried
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Username: Jfried

Post Number: 965
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr. Morality - why exactly are you the expert on how many strip clubs there should be in the area?

8 Mile is an 8-lane, divided highway. This area is filled with heavy industrial, and commercial. Sure there is surrounding residential, but do you really think a discrete strip club is going to affect their quality of life any worse than the pollution created by the manufacturing, the 80k cars passing everyday, the prostitutes (which if you know 8 Mile are not hanging at the booby bars), the property crime, the car theft, etc. etc.

Unfortunately, these bars are still allowed under the city's ordinances. If they are located in a proper location, licensed, and operate properly, why should we have a problem?

I'm not saying what goes on in these places is right, but who are we to judge? Do you have proof that there are more drug, alcohol, or other problems at these types of facilities? I would say that most of these places run a much tighter ship than most regular bars. Most are highly secure, and if you drive by you'll see security outside at night keeping an eye on cars and detering other types of non-sense.

The exteriors of most of these places are not very suggestive, and I would guess that most children don't even know what they are until they are at an age where there being exposed to much worse anyway. Seriously, these are located all over the world, what's the problem?
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Crawford
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Username: Crawford

Post Number: 72
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who cares if there's a strip club? Why are we so puritanical in the U.S.? There are strip clubs (heck, there are legal BROTHELS) everywhere in Germany and it doesn't seem to lead to crime or physical/social decay. What's the big deal? Children will be scarred if they learn there's a place where women dance for the pleasure of men? How is this worse then letting them watch TV or surf the net?

Now if the establishment is breaking the law or is a magnet for criminal characters, it should be shuttered. Otherwise, live and let live.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9025
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Seriously, these are located all over the world, what's the problem?



The problem is that the people of this region seem to think that they are acceptable (and maybe even desirable) in Detroit but protest like mad when they are mentioned in other areas.

If they are perfectly acceptable why does near every other community protest them when they are even mentioned?

It is more the attitude that all of the less then decent establishments should in be in Detroit. It isn't a matter of morality but typical regional hypocrisy that Detroit should be willing to accept anything whereas other communities refuse to support anything like this.

So I ask you - What is the benefit of this place to the city? I am curious how much of the income is reported. How much strip joints actually pay in taxes. What is really comical in this whole thing is that there were people complaining about a proposed strip joint downtown because it isn't good for families that go to games, etc. but people are in support of this. Strip clubs in an entertainment district is bad but strip clubs in near homes is good? I don't get it.

If it is just based upon city ordinace I suggest we place a strip joint in every vacant industrial site in the city. That should be wonderful for the city.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9026
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Crawford, my issue isn't the business itself. I am for legalized prostitition (can regulate it, tax it and make people get tested) but the spin off from it.

If strip clubs are so acceptable to everyone why are the majority of them in a few communities throughout the State? What's good for Detroit should be good everywhere, right?
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 1332
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

too many strip clubs means uglier strippers!!!

hope they shut this one down, the talent pool is thin enough!
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9028
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

too many strip clubs means uglier strippers!!!

hope they shut this one down, the talent pool is thin enough!



Now I gotta admit that is pretty damn funny.
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 366
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

complain about abandonment, poverty, poor services, failing schools.......but a strip club!
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9030
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

complain about abandonment, poverty, poor services, failing schools



Certainly all valid, and more important, complaints as well.
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Defendbrooklyn
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Username: Defendbrooklyn

Post Number: 146
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:
too many strip clubs means uglier strippers!!!

hope they shut this one down, the talent pool is thin enough!

I'm against the club but not against this type of humor...nice!
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 245
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are strip clubs all over the metro area. They can be found in Taylor, Ecorse, Romulus and Dearborn, just to name a few suburban locations. In fact, one of the clubs in Dearborn is adjacent to a residential neighborhood and less than 600 yards from the Dearborn city hall. It has been there for years and it doesn’t seem to have caused moral decay or lowered property values any.
As for the location we’re currently discussing, it appears it would be among the most isolated of all the clubs. I worked across Eight Mile (DaimlerChrysler’s Warren Truck Plant) for over 20 years and was barely aware that the Michigan Fun Center even existed.
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 368
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Michigan Fun Center is where a lot of dealers would deal because they figured it was a kids place.
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 76
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"33 licensed strip clubs (I can believe that) and many more unlicensed clubs (I definately believe that). More than 40% of the licensed strip clubs in Michigan are in our city (sounds about right."

Are you referring to topless bars?
Or strip clubs?
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 1470
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where's Rory Bolger when you need him?
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9032
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

There are strip clubs all over the metro area. They can be found in Taylor, Ecorse, Romulus and Dearborn, just to name a few suburban locations. In fact, one of the clubs in Dearborn is adjacent to a residential neighborhood and less than 600 yards from the Dearborn city hall.



I stand corrected.
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 32
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Jt1, but any parent allowing young kids to cross Mound and play around that industrial stretch of 8 Mile is putting the kids in much more danger than a strip club
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Goirish1966
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Username: Goirish1966

Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

not the best time (economy wise)to be opening a new strip club.

i drive home from the tiger games taking the gratiot to gunston to hoover to groesbeck route and noticed that tycoon's has been closed for at least a month.

this was one of the more successful operations along 8 mile road.
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Arrogancy
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Username: Arrogancy

Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tycoons is remodeling.

Nothing wrong with a new strip club, and I agree that 8 mile should just become a red light district. The only argument against strip clubs in non residential neighborhoods is puritanical stupidity, for the most part.
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Spaceboykelly
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Username: Spaceboykelly

Post Number: 231
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't see why there is such opposition to this. Strip clubs exist. They are legal. They generate revenue and I have no moral qualms about it.

8 Mile is unsightly to begin with and opposition to strip clubs is not going to change that. I would rather look at the neon glow of a populated strip club than an abandoned Fun Center.

Lastly, liquor stores seem to spawn far more crime in this city than strip clubs and trust me... I am not opposed to liquor stores existing either.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 520
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jfried said: "I'm not saying what goes on in these places is right, but who are we to judge?"


Who are WE to judge is a sad statement by you, Mr. Immorality (since you are name-calling in your post already).

Many citizens of Detroit applaud the efforts of folks who don't want titty bars in their neighborhoods. 1/4 mile away is TOO CLOSE.

And another thing: How many naked dancing women do there have to be in Detroit? Come on you guys! Fargin' ridiculous is all I have to say. Get your minds out of your penises!

The dancers are all laughing at you behind your backs and stripping your wallets bare of the money you SHOULD be taking home to your wife and kids, or SENDING to your ex-wife for the child support that you don't pay!!! I'm so sick of your stupidity.

Single guys, get the h-e-double toothpicks out of those stupid places. You are fools for being so interested in naked women that you can't even touch without paying money first.

Think about it you guys, we all look the same when we are young, silicone injected possibly, and hanging upside down from a pole wearing 6 inch heels. Sheesh, women should rule the world.

By the way, I waitressed at The Booby Trap in 1990, and it was a joke. I could tell you a couple of stories that make you guys look like fools, but I won't because you don't care.

Being led around by ol' one eye.
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Gwyrah
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Username: Gwyrah

Post Number: 28
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Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Woo Hoo Titties and Go Carts!
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 384
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any tavern anywhere ought not to have a deleterious effect on the neighborhood nearby, or it ought to be shut down. If you live near a neighborhood bar, and drunks are fighting outside the bar every night, you should not have to put up with that.

But it's nobody's business what the patrons do inside the bar. That's an adults-only business (any tavern of any kind), and if you don't agree with the activity in a tavern, don't patronize it and they'll be out your money.

Notice that in no place above did I mention topless bars specifically at all, and there is no need to separate that type of tavern from every other type. If you have a legal business, and you are not harming your neighbors, they you ought to be allowed to operate. If you can't control the activity and keep it in the building, then you shouldn't be a saloonkeeper of any kind.

Professor Scott
Talking out of the Libertarian side of my mouth this afternoon
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1687
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

People need to stop the indifference towards the neighborhoods.


I agree with Jt1 in spirit on the general indifference towards city neighborhoods, whether it's an extreme overabundance of liquor stores and liquor licenses, unneeded 4-lane one-way streets plowing through neighborhoods, lack of zoning enforcement, etc. This has been going on for many years and it needs to stop.

On the other hand, this particular strip club seems to be in the middle of a commercial/industrial area on a major road, so I don't see it having that much impact on surrounding neighborhoods. I'd guess most of the existing strip clubs in the city are much closer than 1/4 mile to residential areas.
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 598
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I so agree Kathinozarks, men are such dolts!
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 728
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

What is an unlicensed strip club?



It's a place that people get shot outside of at 3:00 in the morning.
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Peter
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Username: Peter

Post Number: 90
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that Chitaku brings up the most valid concerns. It's another strip club kids... there's already a lot, it's not like this one is going to poisin a prospering area.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 523
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Peter, the area can be revitalized. People rolling over and taking whatever the City gives them is counterproductive.

Yes, one more continues the poisoning. Stopping one more can begin the controlling of the decline.

So many of you don't care, and I guess you don't live in the area and have become poisoned yourselves. You don't seem to see that life can be joyous and full without strip clubs, gentlemen's clubs, etc.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1688
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Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

By the way, I waitressed at The Booby Trap in 1990, and it was a joke. I could tell you a couple of stories that make you guys look like fools, but I won't because you don't care.


Alright, let's hear the Booby Trap stories. :-)
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 385
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Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not saying they are a good thing. I'm saying they are a business that is allowed by State law. Communities can use zoning to control where they are allowed to locate, but cannot prohibit them altogether.

Why is it a topless bar or strip club or cabaret, or whatever you choose to call it, "poisons" a neighborhood more than any other kind of tavern? This is what I am not understanding. If the tavern owner is not able to control what goes on outside his business, then he should be shut down; this is true of any kind of tavern whatsoever.

If on the other hand you just don't like what goes on inside, then you need to worry less about other people's lives and more about your own. There are lots of businesses I don't care for: I don't patronize them and they don't get my money. If other people want to patronize them, what of it?

If someone could explain to me how a properly run tavern of any kind, topless bar or neighborhood shot and a beer joint, harms a neighborhood, that would help me understand.
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Pythonmaster
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Username: Pythonmaster

Post Number: 40
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 7:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the folks that live anywhere near the "club" don't want it, then there should not be a club there.
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 102
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Full frontal nudity is not a bar.

Top-less bars are a different animal to be sure in the bar business.

There are good owners and bad owners as with most businesses.

The entire concept of a top-less bar pushing the envelope, as far as what is allowed, as opposed to what is illegal occurs each and every night, something a typical club owner would not face every night.

A girl up on stage, with no top on, is not the problem, it’s the activity that goes on in the back areas (no pun intended) that is illegal, and nothing short of prostitution occurs in these areas.

There is a much greater probability of drugs being on the premises, rarely are the girls clean and sober, most need a shot of something called courage, in liquid or powder form.

Most girls are cross-addicted to alcohol & drugs.

If a man has a pocketful of money there are no laws or rules, when you’re dealing with a girl that has the heroin eyes and the Dracula personality and has been up for days.

For anyone to suggest otherwise is naïve, and or, has never stepped into and patronized a top-less bar with any frequency.

The security in the parking lot is to protect the cliental, who has a pocketful of cash, from getting mugged on his way in, it has nothing to do with what is going on, or allowed, inside.

Security can be bribed to look the other way, and they usually are.

It’s all about the Benjamin’s.

The only exceptions would be the high-end girls, which in my opinion, are few and far between, and usually hang out at one or maybe two places.

From a business standpoint a top-less bar can be a lucrative business, liquor flows and each girl pays the business her “bar or house money,” which can vary from $20.00 to $60.00, and up, per girl, which is due upon her arrival.

This is pure profit, per night, all cash; remember a topless bar in Belleville? Was it a million dollars in cash, or was it 1.5 million?

Drinks carry a cost; that is the liquor cost the business a dime or two to make, hence liquor cost.

Dancers “bar money” has no cost associated with it, pure gravy.

Regardless of how much money a top-less dancer makes (on a any given night) in tips, the house still collects and pockets her “bar money.”

If its $60.00 to dance and she only makes $60.00 in tips that night, she made zero dollars, dancers do not punch-in, they make no hourly rate, it's a tuff, tuff, business and only the girls at the top of the chart make any kind of life out of it.

Some of the responses in this thread are a trip.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 526
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Boss, that's a great answer for the professor!

And for Doug, lol - so there's this one dancer and she's hanging upside down from the pole and I'm serving a guy his food next to the stage (ick). As I walk away from him, she tilts her head and says to me, "God, my feet are killing me". Not much of a story, but also, more telling of where the dancers minds are at at any given point. Not very glamorous, and a bit of a shame. So, sorry Doug, not a very sexy story. (On a side note; I had to quit waitressing at the Booby Trap because I could see that I would lose all respect for men if I stayed there too long.) And I loves me my men!!:-)

Wouldn't watching true belly-dancing be more entertaining for just about anyone? The costumes are beautiful, the dance is amazing, and the music is way cool. I love to watch belly-dancing.
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Ltdave
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Username: Ltdave

Post Number: 59
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i heard it was shut down, so no new club...

i work 1/3 mile south of there on mt elliot at the chrysler tool and die plant...

too bad. maybe they could have gotten the city to fix the street lighting and the pothole right there at the intersection...

david
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 529
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I, for one, am very happy for the families living in that area who were opposed!
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 386
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 11:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the businesses are routinely flouting the law, as club_boss says, then they should be shut down. Kathinozarks, there are a lot of unpleasant jobs out there, no doubt this is one of them.

I still am not trying to claim these types of businesses are desirable anywhere; what I am saying is they are, on paper, legal. If they in fact operate illegally that is a different matter. A legal business can operate anywhere zoning allows it to.

But pythonmaster, if I don't want a shoe store near where I live, should I be able to "keep it out"? The law doesn't work that way. Should it?
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 531
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Prof, everyone needs some kind of footwear; everyone doesn't need to view naked-ladies-dancing. Maybe that's the difference? Just a thought ha ha!
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 387
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sure, Kath, but at the same time:

Nobody "needs to" eat at restaurants.

Nobody "needs to" go to movie theaters.

Nobody "needs to" go to any kind of tavern whatsoever.

So we can ban those types of facilities anyplace neighbors don't want them?

I take a different approach, but not many people bother; perhaps they should. Before I move into a place, I go to the community's municipal offices and look at the zoning in the area near where I am considering moving to. If the zoning allows uses I do not want to live near, then I don't move in at all.

To take the topless thing right out of it, a lot of people don't want to live near a big-box store like a Wal Mart or a Lowe's. Lots of traffic, open late into the evening, and so on. Does that mean you can keep a big box from opening in a place that's zoned for it? No, it means you ought to have done your homework before you bought or rented your place.

Zoning ordinances and zoning maps are available for inspection in every city in Michigan.

Now regarding the other argument "Detroit doesn't need more topless bars", who gets to determine that? I would argue Mackinac Island didn't need twelve fudge shops, but there you are.

But it's just easier to tell the government not to allow an otherwise-legal business because you don't like it, I guess.
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Eric_w
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Username: Eric_w

Post Number: 189
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd bet if you were able to find a list of investors of these sleazy joints the list would be people from many affluent suburbs far from the city-try to put a strip joint in West Bloomfield, The Grosse Pointes or Rochester Hills & see how far it would go. I knew an attorney in the late 70's that lived in Oak Park & was the city attorney for South Lyon at the time. He & his partners owned 3-4 topless bars in Detroit. One partner was a doctor that lived around Long Lake & Middlebelt in a pricey home. No strip joints around his home but he had no problem having one where he didn't live. I'd like to see these places outlawed. As for revenues they generate-for whom?? The owners of the clubs and little benefit goes to the surrounding neighborhood,unless the hookers doing their johns in residents driveways is considered a benefit.
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Goose
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Username: Goose

Post Number: 35
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 520
Registered: 11-2006

Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 2:24 pm:

Think about it you guys, we all look the same when we are young, silicone injected possibly, and hanging upside down from a pole wearing 6 inch heels.


WHAT PLANET ARE YOU LIVING ON??? ALL look the same.....????
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 103
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Topless bars account for more than fair share of tickets, at least as far as the LCC is concerned…

Resent Violations…2 years or less
On the LCC website, anyone can go through the “violation details” for any month, and while bouncing a check (a major no-no) is still the most common offense, look at all the top-less bars that are written up (cited) all the time.
http://www.michigan.gov/cis/0, 1607,7-154-10570_15039---,00.h tml
Scroll down to: Violation Statistics & Violation Details, click on decisions, for whichever month you wish, these dates were not when the offense occurred, but rather, when the decision was rendered and final.

Direct on-premise business look-up:

The name of the bar, the bar owner is listed here, tickets and decisions, address, even if it’s a group of people, each person that has an interest in the business is usually listed.
http://www2.dleg.state.mi.us/l list/
Wayne county pull-down tab/On-premise pull-down tab/leave other tabs alone.
Big draw-back…Alphabetized by owners name, not bar name. Detroit starts on page 3 and runs to 8, 100 licensees to a page. To look-up a bar by name, one would need to manually scroll, line-by-line, page-by-page.


In the city of Detroit, dancers need a dance card, I want to say $250.00, I really don’t remember, but it is pricy.

Bars are cited for having girls “working” without a dance card, all the time.

LCC and police do enforce, in fact the “details page” states which police agency issued the “tickets” (for example: WCS, DPD or DPD Vice or LCC Officers) but from all the citations that are issued each month, it’s looks like a daunting task. I would say the LLC is earning its pay.

Actually catching two individuals committing a lewd or illegal act is extremely rare.

The LCC does write lots of tickets, in fact every once in a while a man will loose his business.

The LCC maintains a high standard for an owner, however no one else working at the business is held to this standard.

I could look and see if there was just one top-less bar that had a clean record as far as citations are concerned.

Regular bars receive citations as well, however many bar owners never receive a citation, and retire from the business having never been cited by any agency, I don’t know if any top-less bar could say that.
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Goose
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Username: Goose

Post Number: 36
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

many of you should have been at the Troy city council meeting last night where they tried to chase away that den of debauchery known as hooters...sounds like a moral crusade going on here.....

i say its an art form, they even call it the ballet across the river in windsor.... the more the merrier.... i support local artists!!!!
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Waz
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Username: Waz

Post Number: 47
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From today's News. Pretty sad:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070522/M ETRO01/705220386

LINCOLN PARK -- The owner of a strip club may be forced to shut down his business and could face criminal prosecution for allowing an underage girl to dance nude at the club, where she met a man who police say provided her with drugs that caused a fatal overdose.

Stephanie Brown, 17, had worked at Atlantis Lounge, 863 Dix Highway, as a dancer for only a few days before she was found dead of an overdose in a Melvindale motel in March.
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Eric_w
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Username: Eric_w

Post Number: 192
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Waz
I live in Lincoln Park & the story you cite is indeed sad. It was covered in our local paper last month. This I'd bet is more common than we realize-underage girls using fake I.D.'s.
Anyone think the revenue generated for these clubs is enough to mitigate things like this? Does anyone think that having these holes around does ANYTHING to enhance a neighborhood???
Above there's comment about fudge shops and restaurants-to my knowledge these types of places do not often draw drugs,prostitution and other problems to them like strip clubs. What about after someone moves to an area & zoning laws are changed? Just pack up & move?
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Qdaddy77
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Username: Qdaddy77

Post Number: 26
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and I thought there were no strip clubs in Oakland Co.:

COMPLAINT NO:
108224
VIOLATION DATE :
11/26/2006
D.B.A :
THE PALACE OF AUBURN HILLS
ADDRESS :
3777 LAPEER
AUBURN HILLS MI 48326
01-16-2007 HEARING HELD - FARMINGTON MOURNING-MCDOWELL-GIBSON NEG SETT
01-31-2007 CHG 1 & 2) $300.00 EACH; CHG 3) DISMISSED; TOTAL $600.00 OR 30 DAY SUSP
NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT
LICENSEE(S) :
PALACE CONCESSIONS, INC.
PALACE SPORTS & ENTERTAINMENT, INC.
CRP
CRP
CHARGE :
1) ALLOWED TOPLESS ACTIVITY OR NUDITY ON THE LIC'D PREMISES, SPECIFICALLY: "SUICIDE GIRLS"
ENGAGED IN TOPLESS DANCING, AND NUDITY, WITHOUT OBTAINING A TOPLESS ACTIVITY PERMIT: 2)
ALLOWED UPON THE LIC'D PREMISES, "SUICIDE GIRLS", WHO PERFORMED OR SIMULATED PERFORMANCE
OF EXPLICIT SEXUAL ACTIVITY, SPECIFICALLY: SIMULATED SEXUAL ACTIVITY AND/OR CUNNILINGUS
AND/OR MASTURBATION: 3) "SUICIDE GIRLS", AGENT, OR EMPLOYEE OF THE LICENSEE, ENGAGED IN AN
ILLEGAL OCCUPATION OR ILLEGAL ACT UPON THE LICENSED PREMISES, SPECIFICALLY: NUDITY, IN
VIOLATION OF AUBURN HILLS CODE SECTION 46.106(2): (AUBURN HILLS PD)
INTEREST :
INTEREST :
COMM. ORDER :
COUNTY:
OAKLAND
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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 199
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like strip clubs.
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Diehard
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Username: Diehard

Post Number: 53
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm with Kathinozarks. Men are stupid.

So many of them think strip clubs are just the coolest thing ever... until one opens up close to home, and their daughter comes home and says she's got a new job.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 539
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goose yells at me:

WHAT PLANET ARE YOU LIVING ON??? ALL look the same.....????
--------------------------

my answer, posted without the drama: I guess I'm a girl and I just think of us as quite similar. You know, basically all built with the same parts, just different shapes. Now, in a titty bar, the girls do kind of resemble eachother, wouldn't you agree? I mean, they should be pretty, with nice hair, well shaped breasts, butt, and a nice flat stomach. Come on, they do fit a certain mold. But, generally we have the same body parts fat or skinny. Woopdie-doo.

Also, women see with a deeper perspective then men. Men are simple creatures. Women are more complex. That's why there aren't as many naked-dancing-men clubs. We just aren't that into it!
Seems kind of silly to most women.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 540
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 1:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diehard, I hadn't even thought of that aspect. I wonder if Professorscott or Goose would approve of their daughters dancing naked for strange men? Interesting.
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 1357
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 2:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

that is funny about Suicide Girls at the Palace. Get a life people a little boobage isn't going to kill anyone we American's love our guns but can't handle the slightest nip slip
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 275
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 8:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathinozarks, the more you post on this subject, the more foolish you sound. You should just quit before you embarrass yourself any further.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1066
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 8:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathinozarks,

There might not be as many nude male clubs around, but women do way more than we are allowed to do inside of them.

CAUTION THIS IS AN ADULT ORIENTED LINK:
http://rvjimmy.peoplesboardinc .com/video/2007/itson/rrrs12/2 VTS_01_1.wmv

Check it out... you be the judge.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1332
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 8:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As to the question re: what goes on in the VIP area:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =HBdVpNc9BZ0
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 545
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ramcharger says:

Kathinozarks, the more you post on this subject, the more foolish you sound. You should just quit before you embarrass yourself any further.
---------------------------

Thank you, Ramcharger, for stopping me. I've gone back and read my posts, and yes, you are correct. I have no idea what I'm talking about. My opinions should stay in my head where they won't embarrass me. Why I ever thought this was a place where I could express myself is a mystery to me now.
I will sit back and listen to whatever you, Ramcharger, have to say and agree with everything. Perhaps I could serve you a cocktail or appetizer while you discuss issues that I have no possible way of understanding.

Thank you again, Ramcharger, for being my guide and letting me know that I don't really need to express my thoughts. They don't really matter. And are stupid.

Can I get you anything else?
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 1360
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i'm very close to an "exotic dancer" and she is one of the most well adjusted people i know becasue she knows what the business is and puts herself above the drugs and drama and just makes the money. Puts herself through school
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Ramcharger
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Username: Ramcharger

Post Number: 276
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathinozarks, you certainly are entitled to express your views and you made those views concerning topless entertainment abundantly clear in your first few posts. However, when you start spouting sexist rubbish such as “Men are simple creatures. Women are more complex.” You can’t expect people not to start taking potshots at you.
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Pythonmaster
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Username: Pythonmaster

Post Number: 42
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also agree with Diehard and Kath.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 546
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sorry ramcharger. I wasn't taking pot shots at men. I meant no disrespect at all. I am not the first person to notice the difference between men and women. There are even many male comedians who have "we men are so simple" themes in their stand up routines. It's rather cute and nothing to be concerned with.
In my one post I even said, "I loves me my men":-)
My husband (and other comedians) say, "I'm simple", there's not much going on up there.""One thing at a time, please!"

It's a perfect coexistence. Having a man in your life to communicate with can help a woman's mind slow down to, maybe, 10 thoughts at a time! having a woman in your life can help rev up a man's thought process to maybe 10 at a time. Now see, we can all get along!

And don't get me started on being led around by ol' one eye. Again, I didn't coin the phrase!:-)

Thanks for the thumbs up, Pythonmaster.

I'm going to go outside now, y'all have a great day! K
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 70
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kath:

Studies have shown men are better at multi-tasking than women
Studies have shown women are better at multi-tasking than men

Women are just as simple, they are just better at hiding it
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Terryh
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Username: Terryh

Post Number: 317
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why is it that whenever there is an issue with a sex related business-massage parlor-adult movie theatre-strip club etc. the issue of influence or threat to children comes up. Pedophilic priests and christian youth pastors are much more of a nuisance. A sexually frustrated man who massages a nude woman and gets a happy ending massage could care less about youre kids. Men see sexual imagery in our culture-we have enough restrictions regarding sexual behaviour compared to many other countries which have legalized licensed prostitutes. Why not just have a several districts away from residential areas where consenting adults can excersise freedom of choice in a supposedly free society. There is almost unlimited religious freedom in this country.Consider all the churches in Detroit-what good do they do for the economic well being of the city? It is still a mess.
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Kathinozarks
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Username: Kathinozarks

Post Number: 547
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rb336, that's funny!
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Larry
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Username: Larry

Post Number: 185
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When it comes down to it. No man in his right mind ever want's to have his daughter, sister, wife, girlfriend or mother working as a stripper. So just remember the girls in those clubs are somebody's daughter, sister, wife, girlfriend or mother.
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Arrogancy
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Username: Arrogancy

Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, kath is proving to be a complete idiot the more and more she talks.

It shows what goes on in the minds of the people that are so anti-strip club; it's typically based on a pure emotional gut reaction and completely denies logic, every argument boils down to an emotional appeal.

It's hilarious that she conflates men being visual creatures with "simple." Males being physically stimulated by their eyes and women being more likely to receive stimulation from emotional gratification is in no way better or worse, and BOTH can be easily manipulated, only in different ways.

If women are so far above men, Kath must be the exception to the rule as each of her posts are full with fallacies, lapses in logic, or just plain ignorance.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 424
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When it comes down to it, no woman in her right mind ever wants to have her son, brother, husband, boyfriend or father working as a coal miner. Too dirty and dangerous a job. Nobody would do such a job if they didn't have to.

Since Detroit gets almost all of its electricity from coal fired plants, I suggest we all forego using electricity, since it forces people into dangerous jobs they ought not to have to do.

Now: what's the difference between this and another post on this board? Or is it just, anything related to sex is so much worse than anything related to violence, disease, or dangerous work, that we can't keep our heads on straight and make logical arguments?

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