  Applesauce Member Username: Applesauce Post Number: 11 Registered: 06-2007 |
Hello all, My wife's fam all moved to AZ about 10 years ago. Over the last 2 years or so they have really been trying to persuade us to move out there. They say jobs in automotive are plentiful.Any ex-Detroiters in the Phx area with any advice? I have taken a trip out there during the early spring (last year) & came back with pros & cons. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 113 Registered: 02-2007 |
I've spent time in Phoenix and found absolutely nothing to recommend the city. It reminds me of Southfield dumped in the middle of a desert with the ugliest mountains known to humanity as a backdrop | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1363 Registered: 06-2006 |
they have the nicest, most state-of-the-art football stadium in the NFL! | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 583 Registered: 10-2006 |
I've heard a couple of people say it was boring. Beautiful, but boring. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1733 Registered: 11-2003 |
Instead of brutal 20 degree winters, you have brutal 110 degree summers.  | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 221 Registered: 12-2006 |
I flew into pheonix on my way to hawaii back in february. All I could tell is that from the air, it looked like one massive suburb. If you like miles of subdivisions, strip malls, and "lifestyle centers", It's all you. | ||
Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 141 Registered: 05-2006 |
I heard it's really warm out there. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 91 Registered: 10-2006 |
I will never understand the attraction of Phoenix. There are plenty of cheaper, nicer areas with similarly robust job markets. Say goodbye to the great outdoors, lakes, lush lawns and the four seasons. Say hello to traffic, smog and sunburns. Hope you like rocks and the desert. If you are pale and plan on spending time outdoors, you will have to go to a dermatologist regularly to avoid skin cancer. Yes, I'm serious. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2233 Registered: 12-2005 |
I returned to Michigan after 25 years in Phoenix. I never cared for Phoenix but most people there seem to like it. If you have family there though that might be a good enough reason to move. The average hottest day of the year gets to 105°/106° but it has reached a record 122°. In addition to the searing heat and unbearable humidity in July/August, they seem to have been having too many infrastructure failures lately. Gasoline, water and electricity (and so air conditioning) had been failing before I left there a year ago. Most people there moved from elsewhere so there's little social connectedness, not unlike Las Vegas. Some folks like that though. I'm curious what pros and cons you found, Applesauce. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1400 Registered: 12-2004 |
One of my closest friends has lived in Phoenix for close to a decade and has hated it the entire time. I've been there to visit; it is a hot mess of suburban culture and sun. | ||
Defendbrooklyn Member Username: Defendbrooklyn Post Number: 223 Registered: 11-2005 |
my brother lives in phx and he appears to love it. It aint for me. Az. is best in the winter time. 1 pro of az. is the long lasting life of the automobile. Strip mall after strip mall after strip mall...Everyting is way to new and boring...No style. | ||
Applesauce Member Username: Applesauce Post Number: 12 Registered: 06-2007 |
Yeah, I kinda got that impression when I visited last year. Everything seems like its brown. I did like Sedona & Flagstaff, but nowhere to work up there. Hopefully the automotive biz will turn around & people can stay here & prosper again. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 287 Registered: 04-2006 |
Phoenix and Las Vegas will be the first cities to go when the USA has an energy crisis...either temporary or permanent. They are nonsustainable. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 554 Registered: 07-2004 |
Phoenix is great to visit as a base to see the dessert. Not matter what the dessert is an amazing thing to see. My parents took me for one month when I was small, and we explored a number areas of Arizona with Phoenix as our base. To be honest, we hardly did anything in the city, as there was nothing to do. But to see the nature areas was cool. Would not live there though. The summers are just to hot. Being cold is one thing in the winter. But hot hot weather with burning sun is even less fun Its up to you. If you already live in a suburb and don't partake in what your city offers, then Phoenix is fine for you. But if you enjoy cultural offerings, street life, etc. Then its not for you. My sister went to visit our family who moved there from NYC and can't stop raving about it. And she was so bored. Each day was a day trip to a different shopping mall. Because thats all there is | ||
Wsu98 Member Username: Wsu98 Post Number: 5 Registered: 03-2007 |
I don't think Vegas will be the first to go, there is too much money invested to just let it go away. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2237 Registered: 12-2005 |
Yeah, cars last longer. There's no salt there to rust them. Comparing Detroit and Phoenix is like comparing apple and oranges. There are just too many differences for a meaningful comparison. You'll never see a haboob roll over Detroit but the oldest architecture in Phoenix is a meager Victorian house. Sure there are jobs there but they typically pay less -- unless your job is to exploit lesser-paid workers in which case you could do quite well. I guess that's what I disliked most about Phoenix: seeing too many grown men cry in public. It can be a brutal town, a Bartertown. | ||
Soomka1 Member Username: Soomka1 Post Number: 18 Registered: 02-2007 |
Are you all crazy? This reminds me of when I was a kid in Detroit and I always thought "everyone in Chicago always acts like it is the greatest city, well Detroit is way better". Then when I was about 26 I went to visit a friend who transferred there. What an eye opener. Chicago kicked our ass in every way. What a lot of you are doing here is taking shots at Phoenix out of loyalty to Detroit. The truth is Phoenix blows Detroit away in every aspect of quality of life. Those "strip malls" that everyone is talking about are huge, beautiful, brand new retail centers with everything you can imagine. You don't have to pack a lunch to drive to a nice store. They are also close enough to Vegas, San Diego, L.A. and Mexico for easy drives. On top of that jobs are plentiful. Weather wise, who are you kidding? The worst day in the summer is cake compared to the humidity in Detroit in August, not to mention the 6 gray icy months. You guys are surrounded by so much bad news there, it is easy to think that things are tough everywhere, but if you have a chance and some family support, move to Phoenix. It does seem like a strange place if you are there for a short visit, but what does Detroit look like to an outsider? Even though I'm sticking up for Phoenix, everybody here in Tucson feels like we have it way better, so I recommend that you move down here. Call me, I'll sell you a house. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2244 Registered: 12-2005 |
Been there, done that. Agreed. I'd prefer Tucson over Phoenix. I'd prefer Detroit over Tucson. It boils down to personal taste. Be careful. | ||
Queensfinest Member Username: Queensfinest Post Number: 120 Registered: 08-2006 |
Humidity in Phoenix? Some of these posters above really need to get out of Michigan once in a while. Phoenix is located in the desert. It's not very humid there other than briefly in the summer months during monsoon season. The place is very ARID, the opposite of FLA, which is HUMID. The Detroit MA has as much in common with Phoenix or Vegas as it does with NYC or Boston. All of the former are sprawling and suburban compared to the latter. The strip mall in metro Detroit is just as commonplace as in Phoenix, but in Detroit you get a lot more vacant storefronts. I wouldn't move to Phoenix for the life of me, but come on, if I needed a job I'd have to relocate there before Detroit. Who can disagree with that? On another note, I know dozens and dozens of NYers who have relocated to Phoenix, Miami, or wherever, simply for the weather and to get the hell out of NY after growing up here. People always feel the grass is greener somewhere else. In NYC we have thousands of transplanted Californians and Texans, while at the same time, when NYers get old and want to retire someplace relatively cheap, they head to AZ or FLA. It's a never ending cycle. One thing is for sure though, Detroit doesn't seem to fit into the equation other than constantly exporting people of all ages due to economic troubles. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 7894 Registered: 09-2005 |
Often living in a city boils down to that - you have to live there, work there, be there. If you want to drive on the most modern roads with the most modern signage, lighting, and design move to Phoenix. Blue skies and sunshine every day, well, maybe not 2 or 3 a year but all the rest. Storms rock the place sometimes, always dramatic. Yes, everything is new - the place didn't take off until AC was available to everyone in car and home. Now Phoenix is the 5th largest city in the USA. Modern airport tho not as many NS flts to faraway places as Detroit - Detroit has gone far beyond anyone else in this area over the past 25 years, tho not an LAX or JFK. But way beyond 95% of the country including PHX. AZ has perhaps the most dramatic terrain of any state except CA. When the evening news used to show the coldest and hottest spots in the country, sometimes AZ would have both - usually Yuma for high, and Halley (sp?) Lake for low. With Lake Powell at the top, Grand Canyon with its 2.5M visitors farther down, then Sedona's red rocks, Phoenix in the middle, then beautiful Tucson and Mexico a bit farther, it is quite a state. Mostly uninhabited - partly because much of the state is federal land or Indian reservation, it is an awesome place. As mentioned previously, it is within easy drive of Mexico, California's beaches/oceans and great cities like Los Angeles and San Diego, and Las Vegas. And, many NS flights to/from Detroit, an easy and inexpensive trip. That being said, it isn't for everyone. 100 days of 100 degrees is very daunting - though most visitors say they can't believe it is 100 degrees when they experience it. I used to say "it's a dry heat" and when I hear someone say it now I say "and so is a pizza oven". A friend who teaches ancient history at Western MI says Phoenix is the closest climate/terrain he's ever seen in the USA that compares to the Holy Land. That being said, EVERYTHING is air conditioned, and faulty/weak/inoperable AC is never tolerated. It is strange to live in Phoenix after Michigan and opposite in some ways. When Michiganders are planting petunias Phoenicians are pulling them out and planting zinnia or other high-heat plants. In the fall when M is zipping up and raking, P is planting vegetable gardens and opening up their homes. No one cleans out a garage between Mem Day and Labor Day, nor does much other outside work, much the same as dead of winter in M. I've known many, many folks who've eventually had their entire families move to Phoenix from many other states, and all seem to love it. Most of the year you do not have to think about what you are going to wear, except in summer when you wear less. It is a delightful, very different place to live and I've never regretted my AZ experiences, unique in all the world as attested to by the millions who come here each year from everywhere else. All that being said, there is nothing like: Indian summer in MI. Cottages on MI lakes. Culture, esp around/in university towns. Older homes in MI. Summer in MI (esp if you are escaping AZ heat) MI blueberries you've just picked and a few etc. etc. etc.'s | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6007 Registered: 02-2004 |
Phoenix, AZ is fast growing city and the 5th largest in the U.S. with a population of 1.4 million people. Lots of good jobs, expensive housing, mostly 21st Century glass skyscraper covered Downtown skyline, large Mexican community and fast growing second city filled bigger suburbs with a population of over 300,000. It maybe sizzling hot and dry but those love the sun and desert. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 328 Registered: 11-2006 |
I have friends from childhood there. My take is similar to a lot of the comments here: One big suburban type area. Built in the era in which their burbs have blocks a mile by a mile and strip malls on the four sides and sub-divisions in the inside. Their FB stadium (I saw it about 15 months ago) is out on the fringe of urban development. One of these drive, park, attend, and drive home venues. What I suspect, though, is that so long as people have family (there) then they can be happy anywhere (that their family is and they can get a job). In my friend's case, he is a banker, husband, father, grandfather and one can do that most anywhere. As for me, I think the two major cities in my life, Detroit and D.C., are more my cup of tea. I like redeveloping cities more cities like Phoenix and Vegas. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 1772 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: Dec.-March is not 6 months. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 329 Registered: 10-2005 |
Regardless of how bad you may think Detroit is, it is better than Phoenix. Just my opinion though. I will say that I do love Santa Fe, New Mexico. | ||
L_b_patterson Member Username: L_b_patterson Post Number: 324 Registered: 10-2003 |
Some of the worst smog that I have ever experienced. Put a city in a dust-bowl of a valley, add in 110F, and you've found yourself miserable. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9472 Registered: 10-2003 |
MikeT.O., is that chocolate or coconut cream "dessert"? | ||
Spitty Member Username: Spitty Post Number: 573 Registered: 07-2004 |
www.phoenixno.com | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 930 Registered: 04-2006 |
"Call me, I'll sell you a house." Ah, the agenda reveals itself! | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2245 Registered: 12-2005 |
Queensfinest: quote:Yes, unbearable humidity. quote:Agreed. | ||
Applesauce Member Username: Applesauce Post Number: 16 Registered: 06-2007 |
Wow, thanks for all the comments/opinions. Like I said earlier, I've been out there & had pro's & cons about the area. I'd like nothing better than to stay here, but the automotive biz will take awhile to recover, & if it ever recovers to its former glory is doubtful. I have young children & would like to raise them without fear of job loss or foreclosure. I would like to prosper, not just stand pat. Also, the older I get the more I hate the long gray, cold winters. As far as I know you dont have to shovel sunshine! The real problem is trying to sell a home. It takes years now to sell with minimal profit. | ||
Jimg Member Username: Jimg Post Number: 869 Registered: 10-2003 |
Aren't there a lot of Scorpions in AZ? | ||
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker Post Number: 909 Registered: 02-2004 |
Hello im going to AZ for vacation and some time meeting my GF's family. Since I've noticed a lot of people on here with good knowledge of phoenix. Id like to ask what the hell should I see or do there?? I'll be there for the craptastic 100 degree weather of july, and ill be staying in Chandler. Oh as a side note there maybe a option for me to move to ether phoenix or nashville which would you do? | ||
Applesauce Member Username: Applesauce Post Number: 17 Registered: 06-2007 |
Well, I've been to the Chandler/Gilbert area. I found there was more to do in Chandler than Gilbert. Gilbert is more of bedroom community with minimal character. Downtown Tempe is cool too, lots of bars & eateries, shops etc, all with a college town feel(ASU). If you can find time, drive north to Sedona or all the way to Flagstaff. Its really an amazing drive through the desert to the red rock of Sedona & finally ending up in the mountains with lush greenery, trees & lakes. Kind of like up north in MI w/mountains. I havent been to Nashville but, a few people I work with moved to N-ville and seemed to really like it. Also, Raliegh/Durham & Charlotte, NC are claiming a lot of Michiganders lately. Similar climates without the harsh winters & the supposed new hub for the auto industry. Good luck! | ||
Wally Member Username: Wally Post Number: 275 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Michigan has natural resources all around, Phoenix has none. If the $h!t ever hits the fan, people in the middle of the desert will be screwed. | ||
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone Post Number: 84 Registered: 03-2007 |
If you can...and you enjoy architecture..go see the Frank Lloyd Wright Museum, House and grounds. It was breathtaking to my husband and I on our recent visit. And Sedona is beautiful. I love the "southwest" look..came home after our visit and redid most of my house in that decorating style :-) | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2247 Registered: 12-2005 |
The Heard Museum is nice. Sedona's beauty is well worth the long drive from Phoenix. The Pink Jeep Tour is a convenient way to see the off-road parts. I'll second Applesauce's Tempe comments. There's actually a volcano field north of Flagstaff, if you're into that sort of thing. There are some desert mountains right within Phoenix. Many folks hike Squaw Peak but I would recommend Camelback Mountain instead. It has more varied terrain. There's a small parking lot at the north end of the mountain. Bring plenty of water and hike early in the day to avoid the worst heat. You can explore all these places in Google Earth too. Someone mentioned scorpions. Just don't go sticking your hands where you can't see. That goes for rattlers too. The scorpions in Phoenix are oddly clustered in just a few neighborhoods. We lived in one area that had a lot of black widows. They keep to themselves and were never a problem. | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 46 Registered: 03-2007 |
We live about 2 hours north of Phoenix at about 5200 ft. elevation. Our temperatures are routinely 15-20 degrees cooler than Phoenix. I grew up in Detroit in the 40's-60's. We go down to Phoenix when we absolutely have to do so...it is the worst city I have ever seen after having lived all over the country and toured much of the world. It has absolutely no charm...it is like one massive burb...Tucson is better, but even then you have to like living in the desert. Believe me...they can say what they want about "dry heat"...when you step out of an A/C car into 115 degrees it is a kick in the ass! Water is a major, major problem out here...or rather the lack of it...one of the main problems is midwesterners who think they have to have lawns, etc. like they had back home. This is the desert...it is hot...it is dry (humidity is routinely 10%)...it is NOT green. | ||
Soomka1 Member Username: Soomka1 Post Number: 21 Registered: 02-2007 |
Take a look for yourself. Here is a live shot of the U of A campus and the Catalina Mountains in Tucson. http://www.cs.arizona.edu/came ra/ Then go take a look at the photo album. No sand dunes here. The top of the mountain is about a 45 minute drive. There are pine and oak trees, the leaves change color in the fall, it snows in the winter and they even have a ski lift. So if you really need to freeze, you can drive up there and do it. I prefer to look at the snow from a distance and in 70 degree weather. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 1131 Registered: 12-2006 |
quote: That would be true, unless solar power were to take off. Then Phoenix would be a perfect area to go to. But I'd rather stay here. At least you can look at a few lakes and enjoy a regular thunderstorm every week. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4271 Registered: 10-2003 |
Not to mention you would not be living in a hellish DESERT... | ||
Soomka1 Member Username: Soomka1 Post Number: 22 Registered: 02-2007 |
If there is an energy crisis so severe that Phoenix & Vegas are screwed, what is Michigan going to do all winter? What are millions of people going to burn to keep warm and who is going to run all the food up there to feed you? I don't think you can decide where to live counting on the U.S. collapsing into a scene from The Road Warrior. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1037 Registered: 02-2006 |
It's easier to stay warm in the winter in the North without energy than it is to stay cool in the summer in the Southwest without energy OR water. Duh. WATER. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4551 Registered: 08-2004 |
Someone asked about scorpions. I have a buddy who moved to a suburb of Tucson, and he said that he has to "empty out" (tap down) his shoes before he puts them on, just in case there's a scorpion inside. Yes they are a problem. Another problem is more of a scary thing than a real problem... that is Tarantula's. My buddy freaked out when he saw one on his garage door. He killed it, but others suggest just leaving them be, since they eat other pests, and don't bother humans. And then there's the poisonous Gila Monsters and rattle snakes, and lord knows what other creepy-crawlys. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 8046 Registered: 09-2005 |
Gistok, yes, there are "critters" everywhere. Having lived in both places, there's 2 things that seem to rise above when it comes to Phoenix: No humidity (relatively speaking) No mosquitoes. | ||
Jiscodazz Member Username: Jiscodazz Post Number: 32 Registered: 02-2007 |
Did anyone here the stories on NPR's Morning Edition about water shortages in the South West. They mentioned Phoenix in the report(I think it's still on of the fastest growing areas in the country). Too many people in the middle of a desert. Michigan, for all of it's problems, is a very sustainable place to live. | ||
Elviswithteeth Member Username: Elviswithteeth Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2007 |
I wanted to chime in after reading this thread. I voluntarily took the check from Fords back in Feb and have been preparing a move out west. I left Ford for many reasons. Living practically all my life here in Michigan I felt a change was needed. Mid life crisis? Some folks get Harleys, a tattoo, divorce or a outlandish car. I love the weather out west for I have scrapped my last icy windshield and refuse to fall on another patch of black ice!!! Goodbye to idiot drivers in the snow and hello sunshine! | ||
Ghetto_butterfly Member Username: Ghetto_butterfly Post Number: 714 Registered: 09-2004 |
quote: Why, according to the bimbos on Fox2 News it's paradise! Or so I hear every time I watch the weather forecast. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 579 Registered: 07-2004 |
It all boils down to lifestyle. If you live in a suburb and do nothing but go to malls and chain restaurants, etc and maybe the odd hike in the dessert, then Phoenix is for you. Because if you live in Phoenix, then its almost the same as living in any suburb in the USA. But if you are into big cities and parktake in things that a real urban city offers. Then Phoenix is not for you. Because it hardly has any offerings that a big city usually would. So it all boils down to that. As for the humidity. Phoenix use to be a lot more dryer. But so many people have moved there and planted grass, etc that the humidity is rising. Infact people use to be told to Phoenix to ease astham problems because the dry heat helps. But lately all the humidity from the grass, etc is not helping as much as before. Also all the car use, and sprawl is totally killing the nature that was there. When we fist visited Phoenix like 19 years ago you could see the mountains. My parents were just there, and the mountains were all covered in smog. And some people like having four seasons. I don't think I would want warm weather all around. It may be warm, but people still don't go outside. They have to sit in AC all summer. So either way you are inside for half the year Overall it boils down to your taste and lifestyle. Phoenix basically represents what most people hate on here in terms of development and lifestyle. Enjoy Phoenix if thats your cup of tea. | ||
Sturge Member Username: Sturge Post Number: 27 Registered: 05-2007 |
How are the bugs down there? You have to deal a lot with killer bees, fire ants, nasty spiders, and scorpions? | ||
Hunchentoot Member Username: Hunchentoot Post Number: 44 Registered: 03-2005 |
I just returned from my first-ever trip to Arizona. I was in Tucson. It was nice around the university and 4th Ave., but suburban otherwise. I didn't see Phoenix, but I didn't hear one good word about it from anyone. And yes, Tucson, Phoenix etc are absolutely unsustainable and will run out of water, and everyone moving there will speed up this process. These are not the cities of the future. Around these parts, for all of our problems, we have lots of water and good soil. | ||
Cynknight Member Username: Cynknight Post Number: 89 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hey, Applesauce, has all this discussion helped your decision-making process? As a lot of posters have been saying, it boils down to personal preference and lifestyle. I lived in Florida for ten years and then moved back to Michigan to be close to family. Florida was great on many levels - but I do recall one morning I woke up, looked outside, and couldn't figure out for a few minutes what time of year it was - summer or winter! Very disorienting. Good luck with your decision. Remember - nothing is permanent - if you don't like it, you can always move back to MI (as soon as the job market improves, anyway). | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2309 Registered: 12-2005 |
I did see two of what I believe were tarantulas (except they were a blonde color?) there. One was frozen in an industrial liquid nitrogen evaporator. Another was on the floor in a temporary office. Its body alone was as large as the shoe with which I stomped him. They do have some venom but not much. A bigger concern there is the Brown recluse spider. I never heard much talk about gila monsters but rattlers can be a problem in their active season. A rattler skinner friend advised making noise on the trail while listening for the rattle. At walking speed they'll rattle before you get into striking range. There actually are mosquitos in isolated areas near Phoenix but they're nowhere near as pesky as in Michigan. Oddly, there was a very serious outbreak of West Nile Virus near Phoenix (in Glendale?) a few years ago. There are Africanized "killer" bees and fire ants but nowhere near as bad as the media hype. If bees swarm you, do not dive into the swimming pool. They'll wait for you to surface. Instead, get indoors. Many people are allergic to the non-native ornamental olive trees there. They have to spray them to prevent them from pollinating. The Phoenix "brown cloud" smog occurs in Winter during temperature inversions which trap it in the valley. It's caused by the sun cooking the ozone pollution. From atop nearby mountains the city is invisible beneath the smog. Instead, it looks like a surreal seascape with only mountain islands poking above the smog. It is indeed unsustainable which raises the possibility that one day archaeologists may well discover the world's largest ghost town there. That should be an exciting find! It's hard to describe the social differences between here and there because there are so many. The lower socioeconomic class is far worse off in Phoenix than in Detroit, IMHO. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1555 Registered: 01-2005 |
I suspect that sometime in this century a massive project will be initiated for the desalination of sea water, with the southwest greatly benefitting from the results. Primary problem, besides the cost, is what to do with the massive amounts of brine that are the side product. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4555 Registered: 08-2004 |
... open up a Vlassic pickle plant? | ||
Soomka1 Member Username: Soomka1 Post Number: 23 Registered: 02-2007 |
OK now you guys are really reaching. Tarantulas? I think you've been watching too many episodes of the Brady Bunch. Tarantulas don't want to have anything to do with people. If you ever do see one, it is trying to get the hell away from people. Any of you desert experts show me one example of a tarantula attack. As far as fire ants go, I think you are talking about Texas. And to you survivalists, "it is easier to stay warm in the winter than cool in the summer" are you kidding me? As far as water goes, do you live on Lakeshore? Are you going to walk down to the lake with a bucket every day? I say again, if the world ever gets that bad, we are all screwed. It won't matter where you are. In the meantime, I haven't shoveled snow since March of 2000. | ||
Cabasse Member Username: Cabasse Post Number: 39 Registered: 01-2006 |
rocketcity (eric) normally i wouldn't disagree with you, but the one thing everyone's ratting on here - the excess of sun - is exactly the resource desert cities have when oil dries up. everyone thinks the only way to harvest solar energy is with silicon panels. there are others though - sterling dishes are mechanical engines which are run through focusing the sun's heat, and there are also solar towers, in which hundreds of mirrors focus the sun onto a central tower which heats molten metal or sodium to create steam. both of these options have small but working examples, and both can much more easily be put on a massive scale than building lots of solar panels. | ||
Mind_field Member Username: Mind_field Post Number: 722 Registered: 10-2003 |
I too think that a giant pipeline from the ocean in California, or perhaps Mexico, will import desalinated water into Phoenix and Las Vegas eventually. And sunshine is an eternal source of energy. I think the place will become much more expensive once the easy water dries up and more expensive solutions need to be found. Comparing the two cities? Well if you can find a great job out there, then why not move there, i guess? You can always move back, nothing is etched in stone. And our winters are no longer 6 months duration. Last winter was 2.5 solid months if that. Not that November and December, or April for that matter are balmy and sunny, but we hardly have a drop of snow in those months anyway. Climate change at work. Last winter got Winterlike from the end of January until about the beginning of April. December and the beginning of January were warm and wet. Michigan is a resource-rich, beautiful state, but if you can't find stable employment, that is a problem. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1041 Registered: 02-2006 |
quote: 1. No, I'm not kidding you. You can always put on more layers of clothing to stay warm. You can only shed so many layers. You live in AZ, right? Turn off your A/C. Please. I dare you. Bet you can't. No one lived in the desert in large numbers until they invented A/C. People have been living in Northern regions in large numbers for THOUSANDS of years. Are YOU kidding ME? 2. I get my water from Lake Michigan, where do you get yours? My water source is within my city limits, where's yours? What's funny is you act as if there is no impending water crisis in the Southwest. Energy crisis is further away (assuming there's no nonsense with gasoline in the next couple years), but water is a real issue, today. I can see where my water comes from, and it ain't going nowhere. How about you? (Message edited by focusonthed on June 17, 2007) | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 183 Registered: 05-2004 |
It will be interesting to see what happens when the water supply runs out in Phoenix. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1563 Registered: 01-2005 |
For those of you concerned with the low water levels in the Great Lakes (down as much as 18 inches in Lake Superior), take comfort in looking at Lake Mead, the lake formed by Hoover Dam on the Colorado River. Lake Mead is currently down 90 feet from its record high. | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 79 Registered: 03-2007 |
After having lived in several regions of the country...Alaska, Alabama, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana and now Arizona...I've come to understand that there is no perfect. We came to Arizona for 300 days of sun a year. After several years of the depressing clouds in Kalamazoo we love it. Several of you seem to be of the belief that Arizona is one big sand dune. We're two hours north of Phoenix at 5200 ft. elevation...we rarely use A/C. Day temps are generally 15-20 degrees below Phoenix and the humidity is generally around 10-15%. Father north up around Flagstaff and the Grand Canyon at 7500 ft. elevation the temps are lower. Its necessary to understand water sources in the SW. Yes, we are in a serious drought that has been going on for 12 years at this point. It is also necessary to understand that Phoenix is not going to "run out of water"...that is unless the Colorado and Verde rivers stop running. Which are the main water sources for the Valley. Lake Mead is down...big time...but the situation is far from critical stage. Here in the north-central we're dependent on underground aquifers...which means we're in a far more serious situation. The problem isn't a shortage of water...its a case of over development...too many wells taping the aquifers...and local politicians being in the pocket of rancher/developers. Our well is 385 ft. deep and pumps 35 gallons a minute...which is way more than we could use. We get it checked annually for supply...if we see it start to drop we'll be out of here. Another serious problem is people moving here from other regions...California...the midwest...and wanting the vegetation to look like it did back home. That's possible but it means a tremendous waste of water. Our meager irrigation system is a drip process which is run only during the night to reduce further loss through evaporation. Our "lawn" is crushed rock. Most of our plants are desert specific. It drives me nuts to see neighbors with spray systems going full blast during a hot and windy summer day...or to see them washing down their driveways with a hose. In terms of crawlies...we do have scorpions but in the five years we've been in this house we've seen one inside. I saw lots more wasps get in the house in Michigan. When we see crickets we know that we're overdue for the exterminator...scorpions eat crickets. If you're visiting AZ and get lucky enough to see a tarantula please don't stomp it...they are not hostile...they will not attack...if you are silly enough to pick one up and you agitate it enough you might get a bite that is equivalent to a bee sting...and...they eat scorpions. We certainly do have rattlesnakes...in five years of riding horses in the mountains I've seen one...fewer than the number I've seen in Michigan...but they are here and they can grow to a large size. The stats demonstrate that the typical person who gets a rattlesnake bite is a male in his early 20's who has been drinking and tries to pick it up. Ya gotta wonder!!! We also have a five ft. gopher snake who lives in our small horse barn...we rarely see it...but we also haven't had a mouse in the barn for over a year. The snake is a welcome border. The coyotes help with the rodent issue as well...we often hear them "singing" nearby signaling that they've made a kill. We encourage them to stay in the area by throwing out an old steak or something every so often. The animal that we have to be careful about is a mountain lion. They're around...we have never seen one but we have seen tracks on our property and recently a neighbor saw one. Its wise to not go wandering around at night...or to let a dog out after dark. That goes true for cats as well although the coyotes are far more likely to take a cat. There is no perfect. Sometimes I really miss the big lakes and those days of sailing on Lake Michigan...or watching the freighters come down the Detroit River...but at the same time...I don't miss the snow blower...or wading through ankle deep mud to feed the horses...or for damn sure I DO NOT miss the mosquitos...we sit out on our patio in the evening and watch the stars come into sight without repellant...or screens. Alaska was fun...Alabama was different and a real growth experience...my home state is Michigan which is a great place...7-8 months of the year. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2321 Registered: 12-2005 |
Well, if that big spider I stomped wasn't a tarantula then what was it? It wasn't running away from me. It was running toward me. It was creating a panic among others in the office and had to be dealt with. It may not have been a tarantula because it was blonde colored but it was as big as my shoe. So what the heck was it?  | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 8059 Registered: 09-2005 |
I would agree w/Goblue save for his harsh assessment of Phoenix in an earlier post - it ain't quite that bad - but if I lived in beautiful Prescott yearound I'd be down on Phoenix too. With Kalamazoo roots and a UM education, that's as good as it gets. My family lived in Kazoo for 9 years, and my Mom says those friends she made in Kalamazoo remain the finest of her entire life and endure to this day. We need say nothing more about UM, it is unsurpassed in all the world...... | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4278 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Why would this be Jimaz? | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 82 Registered: 03-2007 |
Karl: We agree to disagree...in my mind Phoenix is simply L.A. East...a godawful place...but then, to each his own. I agree...living in Prescott with a Kzoo (WMU) and U-M background is about as good as it gets. I spent about 15 years in and around AA...its the best small city in the country in my mind...if only it were in a better climate...I just can't handle Michigan winters any longer. Jimaz/Detroit: I've seen and experienced the worst of both Detroit and Phoenix...not certain how one concludes that the lower SES is worse off in Phoenix...PHX has some pretty bad locales/conditions...but nothing to compare to Detroit...and the bottom line is employment...in PHX it may be pretty low level but its there...in Detroit there is none...poverty sucks...lack of hope sucks...Detroit is the saddest city in the nation. I say that from the perspective of having been an Eastsider through the best years...(1940-1965). | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 449 Registered: 12-2006 |
And of course, if you like public transportation, Phoenix (where the Metro light rail system is scheduled to open in 2008) is better than Detroit (where no light rail is scheduled to open in the next 500 years, and the "commuter rail" is still just talk). | ||
Tponetom Member Username: Tponetom Post Number: 6 Registered: 06-2007 |
Re: Detroit to Phoenix. Add Tucson to the mix. Tucson, on average is 8 degrees cooler than Phoenix. I strongly urge anyone with 'fantasies' of moving to the southwest to spend a few weeks here in the middle of summer before making up their mind. In defense of the vagaries of Detroit's weather/climate, I remember a line from the movie, "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof." Burl Ives was the patriarch of the family and he was dying of cancer. He refused pain medication. He stated his reason for doing so by saying, "I want to feel the pain so I will know I am still alive." In 1946, a tornado hit Windsor,Canada. I was driving my 1931 Hupmobile around Belle Isle, on the Canadian side of the loop when it hit. The windage that caught us was awesome,exhilerating, and terrifying in one fell swoop. In Tucson, the populace await the 'monsoon season' around the first of July. Last year, during a two month monsoon season, we received about 3 inches of rain. Whoopee! I agree with "Karl" and "Goblue" that Prescott is a reasonable compromise. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2411 Registered: 12-2005 |
Detroit_stylin, sorry I missed your question until just now. (I think this search engine is overwhelmed by the increased traffic and so no longer delivers all the unread posts.) quote:I believe it's because of the lack of social connectedness mentioned above. Perhaps because of that, most Phoenicians (understandably?) feel little moral obligation to invite even the most talented of the lower class into productive society. Earlier I mentioned seeing too many grown men cry in public in Phoenix. They were all impoverished, some working, some not. Some of the underclass I met were astonishingly talented and have since rejoined productive society. I suspect their talents weren't recognized earlier because of this social disconnectedness. I never encountered one aggressive panhandler in Phoenix but I have encountered groundskeepers (almost exclusively Hispanic) who seemed unnecessarily cowed. It was a painful experience for me. "America's Toughest Sheriff" seems to have identified the "discipline at all costs" attitude of the local populace. He seems quite popular there. Other points mentioned above: Yes, Tucson, although south of Phoenix, is actually cooler because of its altitude! quote:Excellent advice! | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 745 Registered: 08-2005 |
quote: Not according to every basic quality of life indicator that actually matters to people (schools, crime, tax rates, etc). Believe it or not, some people care more about those things when choosing a place to live than "architecture." | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 96 Registered: 03-2007 |
Prescott is a real good compromise climatewise...but culturally it often feels like the edge of the moon...after being used to major league everything (Tigers, Red Wings, Wolverines, theatre, etc.) it is a real letdown when the biggest thing in town is the annual "World's Oldest Rodeo" where a bunch of yahoos strutting around in chaps and spurs do their best to abuse horses and steers. Indoor baseball in Phoenix just doesn't get there for me...its sort of like bumper pool in a rather mediocre stadium. It broke my heart when Tiger Stadium was abandoned...at least four generations of my family watched the Tigers there...but the new stadium looks like a real ball park and seems to be part of Detroit. The population in Prescott has exploded and as a result the area is far beyond the ability of the local good ol' boys and girls to manage the issues...really just one issue...water. Still, its a nice little town with acceptable schools for average or better kids, low crime rates and low taxes...but of course the services are also low as a result...e.g. what little highway patrol there is in Arizona isn't there at all after midnight. | ||
Evelyn Member Username: Evelyn Post Number: 29 Registered: 02-2005 |
My two cents... as a Detroiter who just moved to the southwest (to Albuquerque, NM) I've been very happy with my move. I left Detroit for a job, and I've found the southwest to be very pretty. The neighborhoods are more walkable and the economy is doing well- not to mention milder winters! Taxes and car insurance are also a helluva lot more affordable than Detroit. However, I haven't made the trek to Phoenix yet- I've heard it's just a lot of sprawl. And for what it's worth, it's generally a little bit cooler in ABQ than Phoenix, though it does get very hot. I think it's a matter of personal taste. Do you deal with frigid winters or blistering summers better? Humidity or dry heat? Mosquitoes or cockroaches? Do you prefer lakes or mountains? (I don't have kids, so I can't really comment about schools.) A final thing: When I went back home to visit, I heard a lot of Detroiters rip on the southwest for not being a sustainable place to live. It can also be argued that New Orleans, California and Venice, Italy aren't sustainable places to live— and neither is Michigan, without a viable economy. I sometimes miss Detroit, but I also know that without jobs to keep residents from leaving, the city doesn't have much of a future. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2429 Registered: 12-2005 |
Evelyn, thanks for chiming in. I'd much prefer Albuquerque over Phoenix. Glad your car insurance is low. In Phoenix it's higher because of higher auto theft due to the proximity of the Mexican border. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 212 Registered: 05-2004 |
I hear the Mexican border gets closer ever year. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 213 Registered: 05-2004 |
I hear the Mexican border gets closer every year. | ||
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm Post Number: 1307 Registered: 02-2005 |
Evelyn, greetings from another Michigander transplanted to loboland. We've been up the road apiece in Placitas since 1999. We're usually at least 15-20 degrees cooler then Phoenix, with much lower humidity (hit 25% yesterday because of the storms in the area, but usually 5-10% in the summer). | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 112 Registered: 03-2007 |
Phoenix is nothing more than L.A. East...sprawling and charmless...Tucson is better primarily because its a university community...similar to Ann Arbor...all things considered I'd prefer somewhere in Michigan to living in the southern part of this state. Its important to understand that there are at least two Arizonas...the South which is Tucson, Phoenix and Yuma...all with scorching summer heat. The North...Flagstaff, the Grand Canyon, Sedona and Prescott...is in the central mountain region which is 15-20 degrees cooler during the day and drops another 20-30 degrees at night. There is also the White Mountain region in the East which is also cooler and has incredible Ponderosa Pine forests and beautiful lakes with great fishing. Arizona is a very diverse state...most people tend to think only of the southern deserts. Only 25% of the state is privately owned...75% is reservation or federal land. Arizona Highways magazine does a good job of describing the state. |
