  Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 63 Registered: 04-2006 |
I would like to hear any memories people have of 1967. Of course one big event was the riots that occurred throughout the United States. Anyone care to express their oral history of 1967? | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1446 Registered: 03-2006 |
The pennant race was intense | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 264 Registered: 02-2007 |
i would, but I can't exactly talk here | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2446 Registered: 07-2004 |
Carl cooper, Fred Temple, Auburey Pollard | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 220 Registered: 06-2006 |
Summer of Love? My Dad was a Detroit Fire Fighter who got the call and left on Sunday. I don't think he was back much before Wed. or Thurs. My Grandparents, whose house was where Poletown is now, came to stay with us so I had to sleep on a mattress on the floor. TONS of helicopters overhead. Constantly watching Ken Thomas & Bill Bonds on Channel 7 news and waiting for word on Dad. Mom made Polish "chop suey" for Dad when he finally came home. | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 203 Registered: 03-2006 |
I am 40. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 194 Registered: 05-2004 |
You could say that was the year that the music died for Detroit. Mostly downhill from there. | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 660 Registered: 02-2007 |
My mom had to have police escort to get to her work at the Budd company as a nurse...I remember watching the transports flying heavy equipment in...and playing on the front yard until curfew...then we were ushered into the backyards...surreal times... | ||
Lmr Member Username: Lmr Post Number: 56 Registered: 03-2007 |
I believe that was also the year of the newspaper strike if I remember correctly. Living downriver we were somewhat isolated from the city, not just during the riots, but always. I've always believed, still do, that downriver has an isolation from the city that continues today. That may be because there are fewer direct roads that lead downriver than say, northeast or northwest. Watching the tv was riveting. Personally, it was as if the riot was much farther away from Wyandotte than it really was. My father had already died, and my mother didn't work in the city. I don't know of any of our neighbors who worked in the city either. Some of the people who were my mother's age (born in 1918) had grown up in Detroit and moved to the suburbs as adults but there were at least half that age, even much older (born pre-1900) who had actually never lived in the city and had limited familiarity with it. It seems odd, but it was a sort of "so near and yet so far". | ||
Margaret Member Username: Margaret Post Number: 25 Registered: 06-2007 |
the Detroit riot in '67 began on my 16th birthday!! July 24, I'll never forget it. I was mad cuz I couldn't get my driver's license, every office being closed at that point. how's that for the crazy teenage point of view? I remember we listened to the police radios with a neighbor, and had national guard guys patrolling our block on the far east side; we couldn't have cheerleader practice for a while cuz it was too many people assembled. then when we did we flirted sometimes with the good-looking national guard guys who were cruising around in their Jeeps. crazy stuff. I remember it was scary. it was no summer of love in Motown, was it? didn't the riot begin during one of those incredibly hot-and-humid spells that late July can bring? | ||
Margaret Member Username: Margaret Post Number: 26 Registered: 06-2007 |
p.s. my Dad worked at Uniroyal on East Jefferson, but I can't remember what happened with his work during the riot... | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 114 Registered: 02-2007 |
67 was a great summer in Detroit. Strange to think that. For a 10 year old boy there was something about the riots that were intriguing to say the least. It was sort of a re-alignment of who was who, a civic cleansing as it were. It was exciting with all the news reports and rumors. Huge pictures in the paper, special editions. Police cars busily patrolling. Threats of water and food shortages. Threats of power outages. The National guard, the massive fires, looting, tanks patrolling woodward and other city streets? Curfews and an anxiety that united communities. It brought neighbors that rarely spoke together and made one feel a part of something big. Hippies, greasers and frats coming together for the same cause  When it was all over we had something to talk about for months and years, the things people saw, the way they dealt with the ordeal, etc. I hear people say today that everyone just doesn't care, they appear that way, but I've seen the opposite. When we are all affected by a situation, we will come together and get thru it. Good to believe that is still possible. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 596 Registered: 07-2004 |
Why is there so little out there on the 1967 riots??? They are probably the biggest reason for the massive decline in Detroit, yet if you search on the net, there are hardly any pics or info on them. Why is this?? | ||
Lmr Member Username: Lmr Post Number: 58 Registered: 03-2007 |
My guess as to why there is so little info on the riots on the internet is because they happened so long before the internet came about and there really isn't much motivation to post that old information. Even a lot of national events from that era have a rather limited amount of information out there on the internet. | ||
Esp Member Username: Esp Post Number: 86 Registered: 09-2005 |
I wanna hear about all the LOVE that was goin on. Was it really that great? "Tune-in, Turn-on, Drop-out" ... "Bend Over I Think I Love You" ??? | ||
Maxcarey Member Username: Maxcarey Post Number: 133 Registered: 07-2006 |
p.s. my Dad worked at Uniroyal on East Jefferson, but I can't remember what happened with his work during the riot... Margaret, what was your dad's name? My mother worked there too. She drove in on Monday morning after spending the weekend away and had no clue what happened until she came to work and no one was there. Her boss called the office and told her to go home. It was then that she saw the military vehicles around Chalmers and Jefferson. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1522 Registered: 11-2003 |
Keep your shotguns handy. Me personally? I'd never live in an urban area without some type of personal protection like that. You think it can't/won't happen again. You could wake up tomorrow and find a real hell of a mess outside. Hopefully it will never be something we hear about/have happen again. Whatever little bit of hope for Detroit's future ended in 1967. What was already happenening across the country got a huge stamp reading "get out now!!!", and millions of people did. I seem to remember reading that in the coming 2-3 decades, 1.4 MILLION (Yes, MILLION) whites alone left the city. Not saying it is the race that matters, but I am dumbfounded to think that 1.5 times the total current population of a major city, OF ONE ETHNIC GROUP, left. Terrible stuff. Not all of it would have been prevented, but 1967 is the year when any hope of maintaining a dense, balanced, decent big city pretty much packed up and left with everyone else. I hate even thinking about it. Wasn't there. Not even close in age. But it is the bullseye on the chart of Detroit's decline. I find it quite upsetting | ||
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone Post Number: 92 Registered: 03-2007 |
Although I lived way out in Washington Twp that summer, I remember the riots starting, because we saw all the state police from the Romeo post driving down Van Dyke in a row with lights flashing. I worked in Sterling Heights at the then Gateway Theatre...at 14 1/2 Mile, we were just north of the curfew line, and where liquor could be sold, so my parents were really nervous about my going to work at night by myself. I was only 16. I also remember the "love" part. It was a grand time. I had lots of hippie-type friends, although we were pretty conservative and didn't do any drugs or smoke any pot. In the fall of '67 I headed for college in Grand Rapids (GVSU). Not much love or partying in that very conservative neighborhood. But the late 60's were great for me! | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2447 Registered: 12-2005 |
Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 115 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: I wanna hear about all the LOVE that was goin on. Was it really that great? By todays standards, it was pretty lame or I was just very unlucky.. It was wild and crazy compared to the years before it. Ozzie and Harriet era. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 116 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: Why is there so little out there on the 1967 riots??? They are probably the biggest reason for the massive decline in Detroit, yet if you search on the net, there are hardly any pics or info on them. Why is this??"" Thats a good question. As one other poster pointed out it's because it happened prior to the internet. That's undoubtedly part of it. And it's probably been swept under the rug so to speak as well. From a city image standpoint it was definitely nothing to be proud of. And definitely hoped people would forget. Even when it was going on it got very little coverage elsewhere. The reason being that it drew other rioters in from other areas. I heard that they learned not to do that after the St.Louis?? riots, or wherever it was. There is definitely some "control" over that in the media. Like when hundreds of thousands march on the whitehouse and in New York protesting the Iraq debacle, the media barely even covers it. Make no mistake about it, this city was torn apart and in total upheaval. It was really bad here. To disperse the crowds the phrase was "Shoot to scare" that didn't slow it down. Then the national guard stepped in and I think some branch of the military as well (could be wrong) then the order was "shoot to stop" the riot was over in a few days. But thats what it took to stop. Thats how I remember it. Keep in mind, it wasn't just racial, much of the destruction was being done by thrill seeking rowdy white kids from the suburbs. They caught several of them. Maybe war protesters, alot of that was going on at the time. Another thing I recall, at the same time the riots broke out here, one broke out in Newark. People were saying its the end of the world. Very scary then. Police forces had 50 cals on tripods set up in gas stations along Wyoming avenue. They claimed the death toll was 42 or 47, but sources closer to the action, hospitals, police etc put it well over a thousand deaths and many more injuries. My Brother was in Viet Nam during this time. He came home on leave, and said he heard briefly about it. And understood it was a few isolated incidents that didn't amount to anything. My uncle took him for a drive on the east side, he couldn't believe he hadnt heard more about it. The military was keeping it hush hush. As did most of the media of the time. There probably isn't alot of articles or pictures available from that period due to the fact the coverage was being subdued. I'd definitely like to have the newspapers from that time. This is how I remember it, wether all of the above is factual I have no idea, this is bits and pieces of news reports and what folks were saying at the time. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2452 Registered: 12-2005 |
From where else are urban legends born? | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 1963 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: This site also has a bibliography of books on the subject: http://www.67riots.rutgers.edu /d_events.htm | ||
Swiburn Member Username: Swiburn Post Number: 166 Registered: 07-2006 |
There is a small, unofficial sculpture at Rosa Parks and Clairmount, the site where the riots started. Detroit has never recovered from the riots. Newark hasn't, either. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1038 Registered: 04-2006 |
The population decline of Detroit began well before the riots. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 8295 Registered: 09-2005 |
Though the Detroit riots set some records, they weren't the first. Perhaps the one that everyone recalls most (by name) was Watts in Los Angeles, August 1965. Riots then seemed numerous and repetitive, even expected. Then of course is the PC angle. Since African Americans seemed to always be at the center of the action (bias of the press?) any mention of rioting today brings in this connection, and sometimes seems better left unsaid/not discussed. I was a kid working in a restaurant. Approx half the staff lived in/near the worst riot areas, and I'll never forget the fear/sadness/anger we shared that hot Sunday afternoon in July as these dear folks learned their homes/apts were burned/looted by their neighbors. The restaurant happened to be in a white neighborhood, and everyone always got along and had utmost respect for each other. It was treated like a death in the family. We sympathized, dealt with it, and moved on, working together as we always had. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 200 Registered: 05-2004 |
Yeah but the riots put the pedal to the metal. Busing started it and the real estate folks got it going in high gear. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1039 Registered: 04-2006 |
"Yeah but the riots put the pedal to the metal. Busing started it and the real estate folks got it going in high gear." The decade after the riots (the 1970s) were the biggest bump in the population decline (over 300,000 left) but well over 150,000 left during the 60s (and 80s) as well. If the estimate of the the true peak of Detroit's population being upwards of 1.9M is accurate then nearly 100,000 people also left in the 50s. The 90s actually marked the lowest population decline with less than 100,000 people leaving that decade- lowest decline since the 50s. | ||
Msuscorpio Member Username: Msuscorpio Post Number: 23 Registered: 04-2007 |
Didn't HBO do a documentary on the Tiger's and the Riots recently? | ||
Maxcarey Member Username: Maxcarey Post Number: 134 Registered: 07-2006 |
Didn't realize it, but it first aired in July 2002. | ||
Msuscorpio Member Username: Msuscorpio Post Number: 24 Registered: 04-2007 |
What's it called? ANyone know where you can find it for streaming or download? | ||
Alec Member Username: Alec Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2007 |
i'm looking for a link that was posted on the forum last year. it was what looked like original documents outlining the construction of the freeways. couldn't find it after searching, anyone remember it? It's for research into possible connections between the destruction of neighborhoods for the freeways and the causes behind the riots. thanks for any help. | ||
Ed_golick Member Username: Ed_golick Post Number: 685 Registered: 10-2003 |
July's Hour Detroit magazine features a series of articles and photographs dealing with the 67 riot called "Reflections on a Tragic Milestone," which includes a quote by Yours Truly. | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 537 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm 30 this year, so the riots happened 10 years before I was born. But one thing is for sure: Black and white Detroiters remember the riots VERY differently. Somewhere in the middle of the 2 metanarratives lies the truth. Too bad there isn't something this summer to commemorate the event, and to use it as an opportunity to bury the hatchet. Once upon a time, I looked into helping put such an event together. But seriously, I don't think enough time has passed. I think that the generations that remember it will have to pass from the scene before we can begin to heal. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 121 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "It's for research into possible connections between the destruction of neighborhoods for the freeways and the causes behind the riots. thanks for any help." Alec, google 67 riot wikipedia. I read that yesterday and it inferred that the building of I-75 had much to do with the frustrations of the time. The destruction of "blackbottom? and the forced evacuation into multi-level high rises. People say it could happen again. We could have disturbances again, but nothing like the "riots". It was a totally different mindset back then. I think the Detroit police force was predominantly white. The cops treated blacks badly, no doubt about it. Thats what started the riots, the police went to raid an alledged blind pig and instead it was a party for two US soldiers returning from Viet Nam. The police didn't believe them and started arresting everyone. Can you imagine that? You come home from serving your country, your friends have a party for you, the police show up and arrest you? I'd be rioting too. Of course, this is from wikipedia. Usual disclaimer. I was talking to another man one day a few years ago and he said he knew emphatically that the riots started at Palmer park the evening before. He was there. So who knows... | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 8308 Registered: 09-2005 |
Well, let's look at the upside. Many got to buy beautiful, well-maintained homes at bargain basement prices. Further, over the next 10 years the entire COD personnel underwent a massive racial shift, resulting in a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. In other words, power to the people, I seem to recall hearing that somewhere before. So why all the fuss? Detroit was then well-positioned to become a far better place. The riots were over, the oppressive folks were gone, and everyone who remained had a great home. | ||
Earground Member Username: Earground Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2007 |
WDET's Detroit Today is collecting riot stories. They're asking for people to write anecdotal essays and send them to detroittoday@wdet.org They'll then work with you to voice and produce the essay for eventual air. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 5265 Registered: 10-2003 |
Black Day In July, ©1968 by Gordon Lightfoot Black day in July Motor city madness has touched the country side And through the smoke and cinders, you can hear it far and wide The doors are quickly bolted and the children locked inside Black day in July Black Day In July And the soul of Motor City is bared across the land As the book of law and order is taken in the hands Of the sons of the fathers who were carried to this land Black day in July Black day in July In the streets of Motor City there's a deadly silent sound And the body of a dead youth lies stretched upon the ground Upon the filthy pavements, no reason can be found Black day in July Black day in July Motor City madness has touched the countryside And the people rise in anger and the streets begin to fill And there's gunfire from the rooftops and the blood begins to spill Black day in July In the mansion of the governor There's nothing that is known for sure The telephone is ringing And the pendulum is swinging And they wonder how it happened When they really know the reason And it wasn't just the temperature And it wasn't just the season Black day in July Black day in July Motor City's burning and the flames are running wild They reflect upon the waters of the river and the lake And everyone is listening and everyone's awake Black day in July Black day in July The printing press is turning and the news is quickly flashed And you read your morning paper and you sip your cup of tea And you wonder just in passing, is it him or is it me Black day in July In the office of the President The deed is done the troops are sent There's really not much choice you see It looks to us like anarchy And then the tanks go rolling in To patch things up as best they can There is no time to hesitate The speech is made the dues can wait Black day in July Black day in July The streets of Motor City now are quiet and serene But the shapes of gutted buildings strike terror to the heart And you say how did it happen and you say how did it start Why can't we all be brothers, why can't we live in peace But the hands of the have-nots keep falling out of reach Black day in July Black day in July Motor city madness has touched the countryside And through the smoke and cinders, you can hear it far and wide The doors are quickly bolted and the children locked inside Black day in July, black day in July, black day in July | ||
River_rat Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 272 Registered: 02-2006 |
River rat lived at Mack and Beaubien in July of 1967. Anyone who lived through the next week to ten days knew it was time to leave Detroit because there was no future here. Truthful comments on the events in the city at that time can only draw anger and ire from one group or another or everyone. There was human death beyond that reported (42) but the death of this city is still being reported 40 years later. Fires and gunfire everywhere, complete loss of civil law and civility, and forty years later the fires of distrust and anger still burn. The great "Arsenal of Democracy" will never return and the scars of those days can never be removed. Detroit died late on the night of July 23rd, 1967 and death is irreversable. In future years a new city might rise again, but it won't be the almost 2 million strong economic force of the "Arsenal of Democracy" and the "Automobile Capital of the World". If we don't recognize the confluence of the July, '67 events, the decline of the US (Detroit) auto industry and the death of what was Detroit; we have learned nothing. | ||
Oladub Member Username: Oladub Post Number: 51 Registered: 08-2006 |
Most of this is hearsay- I listened to national guard members who claim they saw more than forty bodies stacked in the back of trucks. One fellow I knew went with some family and guns to defend their store on Jefferson. It was kitty corner from a police precinct. Police came and asked to be allowed to take a position on the roof of their store. I heard that Harper Woods had deputized some men in case looters came out Gratiot toward Eastland. Gratiot Auto Supply was supposed to have some armed people on its roof. It was not broken into. I heard one white guy say there were some whites, including himself, doing some looting along with blacks. I had the Ford and Chrysler expressways to myself when I went to work at the Greyhound terminal every day. Things were slow at the terminal. I saw some girls with shopping carts were going over a pedestrian bridge toward a burning grocery store along the Chrysler. Downtown at night was a strange place with military and police vehicles racing along. I sat on a carts outside the bus entrance door with black and white Greyhound employees to watch the weirdness. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1528 Registered: 11-2003 |
As an aside: People say it can't happen again. Maybe not the extent and maybe not for the same reasons, but I say you gotta be aware. Imagine if that blackout in 2004 had continued for several more days. People were scrambling for ice. Once you eat up all the food that's gonna go bad, where do you get more? Supermarkets are gonna have bad food too, if they're even open. And holy crap do you remember how hot it was for those couple days? It was in the 90's I believe, and freakin humid. I remember sweating at midnight the first night and the next day was terrible. Luckily I had filled up my gas tank Wednesday on my way home from work, so I had a full tank and we burned some of it up driving around just to cool down a little bit. While I applaud Detroit (and most other cities and citizens involved in the blackout) and its residents (I did worry things might quickly get out of hand but never did), I definitely got the feeling that if that thing had lasted another 2-3 days, especially if no relief came from the Red Cross or something, that some things may have gotten started. So don't think it can't or won't happen again. Might not be a blind pig or racism or the cops that cause it. A catastrophe or a lengthy power outage on a hot, muggy summer week, or any other such situation where people start to get desperate and it will flare up again. Crap, look at all the garbage that happened in New Orleans during Katrina. You heard about thugs taking over parts of the Superdome. Rapes in the bathrooms. Massive frustration from lack of being able to get out of the Superdome. Human waste piled high in the restrooms, etc. That turned into a real mess there. Same could happen in Detroit again, or in any other city in the US for that matter. Just remember that. Have an emergency kit with enough food, water, clothing, drugs, toilet paper, etc to get you through 3-5 days without other support. I know a lot of people in areas not prone to natural disasters don't have this, but you never know when you might need it. It might not be an earthquake or hurricane. It might be a power outage or some other freak thing. Just a good idea. Keep some extra gasoline around too. Enough to hopefully give you enough to drive yourself out if you need to. And lastly, consider keeping a weapon of some kind. You may not like the idea and you pray you never have to use it, but if it comes down to your survival or your family's, I'd rather have the weapon and defend myself than be at the complete mercy of others. Maybe even just being armed will be enough to send an aggressor to somebody else's home instead. You don't have to kill a guy to defend yourself and your family, you just have to be a big enough deterrent to send them picking on somebody else. Hopefully never again. Hopefully this city will eventually recover. But don't be naive and think you're safe today. Prepare for the possibilities and hope the bad stuff never comes along. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 122 Registered: 02-2007 |
Jerome, I agree it could happen again, but I doubt it would be for the same reasons. The 2004 blackout was sort of a test run to show how bad things can get in a very short period. In less than 24 hours, my neighborhood seemed to be in a state of panic. People hording groceries, searching for gasoline, ambulances and police cars racing up and down. It was surreal. I was prepared for it so it didn't bother me. I have a battery television, I turned that on and watched the news. Which was a bit entertaining as it was very "casual". The weatherman on one channel said something like "Why the hell are we even doing this?" And you're right people should be prepared for something like this. Try to keep your vehicles gas tank filled, keep some provisions for at least a week, i.e. canned goods, MRE's etc. And the big thing is water. One quart a day for each person, And yes some fire power to protect yourself from folks who werent prepared. Katrina was a classic example of how much regard our present government has for the people. And how capable they are at handling a state of emergency. Thats one of those instances had the media not gotten involved, I think many of the victims wouldve died in that superdome. | ||
Margaret Member Username: Margaret Post Number: 28 Registered: 06-2007 |
does anyone remember that there were snipers on some overpasses of the Ford Expressway during the big riot? it doesn't surprise me that young white hippy types joined in the looting: for both blacks and whites at that time, "revolution" was in the air, people were beyond frustrated with Vietnam, with race relations, you name it. I think those years of riots across the country were about the need for change coming to a head, and boiling over. it's a friggin miracle we haven't had riots during the past few years, if you think about it. also, I think everyone everywhere should be prepared for disasters...blizzards, power outages, earthquakes, riots, you name it it's good to be ready... don't want to piss anyone off, but want to ask this: were the Black Panthers involved in the '67 Detroit riot? I can't remember... | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 123 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: it's a friggin miracle we haven't had riots during the past few years, if you think about it. The difference is now, there is no draft. If they invoke that, it's going to get crazy. Over 70% of the population wants nothing to do with the Iraq debacle. They aren't taking my kids over there. | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 117 Registered: 03-2007 |
If we had a draft the country would be in upheaval...George Bush and his gang would be gone...its going on and on only because such a limited number of the population is personally involved. I'm not advocating a draft at this point...just observing the difference that has allowed this mess to continue. My ex was a nurse at Children's Hospital...I recall that the National Guard met them somewhere and took them in. It was beyond weird living under martial law in Harper Woods...walking down to the expressway to watch the 101st (?) coming in from Selfridge...armored personnel carriers...machine gun armed jeeps...trucks...with huge clouds of dark smoke on the horizon. My grandparents and her parents lived near Chalmers and Mack...they refused to leave their homes for fear of looting...both spent a night under their beds listening to shots. It truly was the time that the music ended in Detroit. The Tigers winning the Series in '68 helped...but...the damage was done. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 1997 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: No. I've never heard them mentioned in anything I've read about it. | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 121 Registered: 03-2007 |
Pam: You are correct...Detroit blew up due to the frustrations of an urban population and the frustrations of our society...Black and White...the army was made up of those at the lower end of the SES scale and who were being killed in Asia...the political aspirations of the Black Panthers had nothing to do with it. | ||
Eastside61 Member Username: Eastside61 Post Number: 96 Registered: 07-2006 |
GB - You B Right on brother!!!! Still a lot of Q have gone unanswered about the summer of '67. Why was the US Army stationed at Southeastern - and the National Guard at Hutchins Jr HS in the center of Detroit. Just look at a map!!! Pam - Just read "The Algiers Motel Incident" and you will start getting the picture.... GB - You hit it again with the Bush surviving because there is no DRAFT today......and I actually knew the Detroit cop who made the buy at the "Blind Pig" off of 12th street.....and was there from the beginning..... | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 124 Registered: 03-2007 |
ES: Four couples of us from WMU were at my parent's cottage up in the Thumb near Caseville for the weekend when it started...we all drove back into town with no idea that it was going on...one couple was driving an MG with the top down...down the expressway into the midst of it...all ended well but in retrospect it was scary as hell....had forgotten about the Algiers Motel Incident...knew that the USA was at SE...didn't know that the National Guard was at Hutchins...interesting! Back in a week. | ||
Eastside61 Member Username: Eastside61 Post Number: 98 Registered: 07-2006 |
GB - The next morning after it started i was headed to MSU to hang with my buddies and pulled into a gas station on Hayes and 7...and was followed by the DPD who said to the attendant..."This guy is the last one to get gas - you are shutting down".... My father was a school administrator at the Angell Elem. School on 12tha nd Euclid - the neighborhood burned but the school survived. GB - You have been just voted into the TARS GOLF Hall or Fame..2 - 0 voting once again. I also went to all the Ford Debutant parties at the little club ( Charlotte and Ann Ford) and was a BIG hit at DHS the next day with various things that I liberated in between parking the cars......Memories!!!! Most of them were good about the LClub....and few rotten ones toooooo. | ||
Eric_w Member Username: Eric_w Post Number: 250 Registered: 02-2007 |
Lived on Greenlawn between Chalfonte & Eaton.That year I was 11. Most vivid memory wasn't love but racial tension-always battles between Whites & blacks pretty much everywhere. The area we lived had changed almost overnight from 80-90% white to 90% black by 1967. We were captives in own yard because we couldn't go anywhere alone for fear of a beating by blacks kids around. When the riots began my parents sent us out to the my aunt's on Bramell & Fenkell-when we were driving out there my 8 year sister asked why were going out there.My uncle said "look behind you the blacks are burning down the G-D city!!!!" I turned around & saw the sky filled with smoke from 12th street. We were stopped at Wyoming & Fenkell going westbound.There on Bramell it was lily white we stayed a week. I actually remember people sitting on their porches with guns though nothing was going on out there. Another sight I vividly recall:when we were stopped at Fenkell & Wyoming I saw a black Detroit Police officer on the southwest corner. He had his own car a yellow chevy convertible-he had a riot gun and one of those old army type walkie-talkie radios slung on shoulder. He had the most bizarre stunned look on his face.I can see him now like it was yesterday. Several weeks after coming home I was jumped & beaten up severely by a bunch of black kids 3-4 years older than me. If it hadn't been for an old black man that lived on the corner chasing them off they might've killed me. I ended up in the hospital. Thankfully we moved out that fall. | ||
Detroit_girl Member Username: Detroit_girl Post Number: 102 Registered: 10-2003 |
Before I was born our neighbor in Clawson offered to lend my dad a gun during the riots, but my dad told him "what are you, crazy?" I have 3 little kids in the house." Nothing happened, of course. | ||
Oldestuff Member Username: Oldestuff Post Number: 24 Registered: 01-2007 |
mtmm: it was Ken Thomas and Barney Morris and they did a terrific job. I worked for WWJ at the time and the closest they came to coverage was putting a camera on the roof of the building on Lafayette so you could see the smoke. They did offer to put the employees up at the Shelby, but, I don't think many took them up on it. I still cringe when I hear Pingree or Clairmont - read the Alges Motel by John Hershey - a terrible time, but exciting too. | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 224 Registered: 06-2006 |
Oldestuff, Barney Morris doesn't ring a bell at all but, then, I was only seven at the time. I DEFINITELY remember Ken Thomas though I figured Bonds was all over Channel 7 in those days. ...and that was when my Dad started to carry a gun when responding to fires... | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1340 Registered: 02-2007 |
Ok how about this, everytime a severe thunderstorm comes through Detroit, ask yourself "Why didn't this happen on the day of the riot". Initially, there was a Tornado Watch issued that very afternoon and a lot of the fires could of been prevented, but they relied on the Thunderstorms to simmer down some of the fires. Ironically on that particular day, none occured over the city. Ah well, God must have something better for us planned. | ||
Eric_w Member Username: Eric_w Post Number: 251 Registered: 02-2007 |
Another little note on the riot-Tiger Pitcher Mickey Lolich was in the either the Army Reserves or National guard and did active duty during the riot. One week you're in a war zone & the next pitching in a pennant race. Talk about two extremely situations in a short time. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 483 Registered: 08-2006 |
The new Rolling Stone has an article about Detroit in 1967. It is part of a series of important cities during the Summer of Love. They include San Francisco, LA, London, and Detroit! | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1545 Registered: 11-2003 |
I can't imagine the Detroit portion is gonna talk too much about how "groovy" it was in the D..... | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1358 Registered: 02-2007 |
It wasn't grooviness or love, just Modern Idealism (I.E. the Smiley Face Era, Hippie Movement and Peace Sign Era). | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 81 Registered: 05-2006 |
I don't know about anyone else but 1967 was just like any other year for a young couple; trying to make a decent living, putting food on the table and keeping a roof over our heads. We weren't complaining about being harassed or kept down by the MAN. We went about our daily routine of being law abiding citizens. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1612 Registered: 02-2007 |
"We weren't complaining about being harassed or kept down by the MAN." Not Quite. The hippies did the exact thing we're doing today. They were the Politically Incorrect People in their earlier form. Don't worry, it will phase away in the next 10 to 20 years. I know what your saying though, life were much more simple than it is now. | ||
Dfd Member Username: Dfd Post Number: 265 Registered: 09-2004 |
"The Origins of the Urban Crisis" by Thomas Sugrue has some information on the riots. | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 83 Registered: 05-2006 |
Urbanize I don't think the Hippies were concerned at all about family, or being a member of a society! I think they were only concerned with their own self gratification. Just like some people of today--give me--give me! | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1630 Registered: 01-2004 |
"don't want to piss anyone off, but want to ask this: were the Black Panthers involved in the '67 Detroit riot? I can't remember" Uuuhhhh.. Damn straight they were. They fought intense battles with the army snipers. The main gunfights with the Panthers were contained in the hood just north of I-94, just west of Woodward, and just east of Grand River. (Linwood-Dexter area) It started on 12th and Clairmount that morning. It made the big cops all jump and shout, It started on 12th and Clairmount that morning, It made the pigs in the street freak out. The fire wagons kept coming baby, But the Black Panther snipers Wouldn't let em put it out. -lyrics, al smith and MC5 | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1631 Registered: 01-2004 |
Who were the Panthers fighting with during the riot, and why ? 902nd Army Intelligence specialized Alpha Team. This group sent "Alpha Teams" to all major cities in 1967 that were experiencing civil disturbances or riots. The groups were outfitted with "mug books" of desirable targets, people like black militants. If at all possible, the plan was to get into the rioting area, locate the targets, and in the confusion of the event they would execute the targets. 902nd MIG was in Detroit in 1967 during the riot. They would be specifically looking for the black militants who were armed and ready to defend themselves. These battles are lumped in with the "sniper" fire going on at the peak. Source: Federal trial of conspirators in the murder of Dr. Martin King. (entire transcript available on the king family website). A good summary of Army Intel involvement in all the 1967 urban riots can be found in "An Act Of State" by William Pepper. Members of the 902nd were also on scene at MLKs assassination. Again, this is from open Federal court records of a case which led to a conviction of a participant in the conspiracy which murdered Martin King. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 8564 Registered: 09-2005 |
So were residents around 12th St & Clairmount for or against "the Black Panther snipers who wouldn't let 'em put out the fires"? Further, were the residents around 12th St & Clairmount for or against the 902nd MIG who were trying to stop snipers who were firing to kill citizens of Detroit? And to clarify, members of the 902nd were also on scene after MLK's assassination. Everyone expected more rioting, and the 902nd were the experts of the day sent in to stop any civil unrest. Generally, this is exactly what most folks wanted/still want today - no civil unrest. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9526 Registered: 10-2003 |
I still don't understand the mentality of those who start riots or participate in them. Nothing like burning your own neighbourhood to the ground. If I had rioters near me I would shoot everyone of the fuckers and stack them like cord wood as lesson for anyone else coming near my house. So what here's a legitimate question. Did the riots achieve anything positive for Detroit and is the city better off because of the riot? | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1632 Registered: 01-2004 |
"Generally, this is exactly what most folks wanted/still want today" Government spooks assassinating american citizens ? Nice. 902nd participated in and filmed the actual shooting of Martin King. Youre cool with that ? Naw. Yeah they were ready for civil unrest afterwards, but they were also the cause of that unrest. This isnt theories or anything, this is plain history now. I dont know how historically reliable the MC5 adaptation of the "Motor City is Burning" lyric is - so I dont think anybody should take their hype too literally. There is no actual evidence of Panthers shooting at firefighters. However, when the government comes and fires on you without just cause, you are Constitutionally within your rights to respond with lethal force. This is what I believe happened between the Panthers and the search and destroy Alpha team sent by the "90 Deuce". Im in agreement with Goat. And I resent people trying to characterize the riot as an 'uprising'. Robert Kennedy put it best, when he said that an angry mob is NOT the voice of the people - it is the voice of madness. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1633 Registered: 01-2004 |
K - back to thread topic, sorry for jacking. Seriously, this Summer of Love thing, was that just a few weeks in San Fran ? They call it 'Summer of Hate' here. There was that party on Belle Isle that ended up with mounted police beating people with clubs - that was before the riot. It was tense times here. There were so many riots and such unrest in the country at the time, is the "Summer of Love" sort of an afterthought myth ? And wasnt it really a bit of an elitist white kid thing ? Did african americans in 1967 think it was a "Summer of Love" ? Lowell and I have talked about this, since I wasnt really around at the time, and Ive asked him about it. Hes very firm that it was an amazing time, and something positive really was going on at that point. With only historical hindsight, the 1960's in general seem to be a very turbulent, horrifying time. There has to be more to the 60's than some good pop music and some rich white kids taking too many drugs. Anybody ? | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9529 Registered: 10-2003 |
I find it somewhat odd that people would characterize the '60s as an amazing time. What the '60s brought us was the hangover of the gross '70s and the "me" attitude of the '80s which has now intensified each decade. I agree Mauser, that the "Summer of love" was more of a iddle class white thing. It wasn't until those middle class white kids started to get drafted did we see the big demoonstrations against the Viet Nam war. I believe that the myth succeeded. Summer of Love? For but a few.... | ||
Tiberius Member Username: Tiberius Post Number: 23 Registered: 06-2007 |
I think a more than a few folks missed Citylover's reference to the Algiers motel "incident". I think that issue further polarized the city and reverberated for many years. If you were to research the riots themselves you would find that Newark had civil disturbances a week or so earlier that were followed by the local newspapers. I think what Detroit's experience was a copy cat event. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9537 Registered: 10-2003 |
The initial reaction wasn't but the ensuing mayhem was just opportunistic BS. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1638 Registered: 01-2004 |
Yep - and Newark was WAAYYYY worse for african americans than Detroit at that time. (the Newark riot ended less than 5 days before Detroit started.) Detroit was one of that national leaders in black home ownership in 1967. It was the police brutality that made everybody flip out. The "Big 4", STRESS - all those jack booted thugs in the DPD. Just like Chicago a year later, the Detroit riot was instigated by the police. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1552 Registered: 11-2003 |
I agree with the poster wondering why rioters destroy their own neighborhoods. Makes no sense. I seem to remember reading somewhere that a good majority of the buildings and businesses looted and destroyed were black-owned businesses. If the riot was supposed to be an uprising by blacks, why did they destroy the property of blacks? Every time (and I was born 14 years after the incident) I think about this, it just disgusts me. Like the city really needed something like a massive riot at this time. It was already struggling with job reductions, racism, and suburban white-flight. Adding a riot to the mix just made all the problems everyone was already worried about about a zillion times worse. Freep comments: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070711/NEW S01/70711073 They mention "Detroit rebuilt, but for many the memories linger". I might have to say Detroit has NEVER rebuilt. It has never been the same. Those areas devastated still look like hell today, and those areas not affected in general also look like hell today. Detroit will probably never recover, at least not in our lifetimes.... | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1555 Registered: 11-2003 |
Oh, and those stories about army assassins, while I can't disprove them, just sound way too absurd to me. Might have happened, but it screams silly conspiracy to me. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1639 Registered: 01-2004 |
"but it screams silly conspiracy to me." Federal trial court transcripts, look it up, or shut the hell up. | ||
Tponetom Member Username: Tponetom Post Number: 46 Registered: 06-2007 |
Let's see. I was in Detroit in 1943. Then I was in L.A. in 1965. Then I was back in Detroit in 1967. I remember something about a disturbance or,,,or three. L. A. was extremely entertaining. We were watching the looters on TV while sitting on our second floor patio, two blocks from Disneyland. At the same time we were watching Mary Poppins sliding down the wire to only God knows where. Truth! | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 8634 Registered: 09-2005 |
Mauser says: "It was the police brutality that made everybody flip out. The "Big 4", STRESS - all those jack booted thugs in the DPD. Just like Chicago a year later, the Detroit riot was instigated by the police." A smart guy like Mauser should know STRESS didn't exist at the time of the riots, but came into being nearly 5 years later. | ||
Kville Member Username: Kville Post Number: 69 Registered: 04-2007 |
Too bad that most of the contributions to this discussion are about the riots. Of course that dominated the news in Detroit & all over the country - it was a disturbing time in America, not just in cities but college campuses, etc. For me 1967 was the year I graduated from high school, so as a high school senior & college freshman, it was the threshold of personal change. It was a year of my first & only prom, traveling all over the city for high school basketball games, my first "serious" dating of the girl I thought I would marry (and with whom I broke up a year later), graduation at Ford Auditorium, state fair in late August, classical motown music, moving away from home & being on my own for the first time, my grandmother dying the day after Thanksgiving, registering for the draft and wondering if I would be the next to head off to Vietnam. It was truly a summer of love, hate, violence, peace - not unlike life today. The more things change, the more they stay the same. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1646 Registered: 01-2004 |
"STRESS didn't exist at the time of the riots" Not really my point, but you highlight that the brutal police situation didnt chance fast enough after the riot, and in fact still has not been changed enough in modern times. Kville - you make the most important point, that its always "the best and worst of times". I just think there was no Summer of Love in Detroit in 1967. I believe the Detroit Summer of Love was in 1968 - when the Detroit Tigers brought everybody out into the streets to celebrate together. | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 256 Registered: 10-2003 |
While it wasn't the Summer of Love in Detroit, the Monterey Pop Festival in the summer of '67 is one of the defining moments for that tag. Over the course of three days, there were over 200,000 in attendance "--yet there were no deaths, no injuries, no overdoses, no violence and no arrests." --Wikipedia . Pretty remarkable. Also considering the number of quality artists performing and that it was filmed and recorded practically in full, the festival was unquestionably a seminal event. Watching the film of the Festival, its not hard to catch the good vibes and see all the "gentle people" there. Also you have to remember that the "Summer of Love" would also become an international event. Having just talked to someone who was in London at that time, he said you couldn't escape it. In his words, if a young girl at a party turned around and mentioned dinner or a movie, you knew it only meant one thing--breakfast would be included. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 138 Registered: 02-2007 |
"Federal trial court transcripts, look it up, or shut the hell up." Don't believe everything you read. Ask Martha and Billary. People lie at federal proceedings. The city was in a state of disarray and many facts got lost in between the mayhem and rumors. It was 4 or 5 days of total civil disorder. Thats all I could think anyone could say with any certainty. The notion that it was some well documented and predetermined action is wrong. I've heard two or three adamant claims of how exactly it started over the years. And loads of other claims. Are they fact or rumor? Who knows. Re: The Black Panthers, I was here at that time and I don't recall them being mentioned until late 68 or during 69. Is that accurate? Thats what I remember. If they were involved in the 67 riots, they got very little mention. For folks that even lived thru it, the information of the day was sketchy. There were no modern correspondence tools. Most of what was reported at the scene was garnered from whomever walked past. The information coming thru was sketchy and unreliable. Now 40 years later trying to piece it together is futile. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1963 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Not Riot, but a Revolution that is why. Every wonder all these later we here about the abusive police. Maybe it is really the abusive populace. It always surprises me that 67 started over a correct police action yet people make it out to be otherwise. (Message edited by _sj_ on July 13, 2007) | ||
Soomka1 Member Username: Soomka1 Post Number: 27 Registered: 02-2007 |
Sstashmoo, if over a thousand people were killed as you claim, don't you think more people on this forum would have personal knowledge of someone who was killed? I remember many of the same things that I've seen posted here. I was five and whenever we heard the helicopters flying overhead, we would jump up and down waving hoping that the National Guardsmen would wave back. I remember my neighbor who was a fireman finally coming home and talking about getting shot at while they were trying to save neighborhoods not too far away from us. But who the hell remembers hearing about hundreds of people being killed? Don't you think that would be a difficult fact to suppress? | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 145 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "if over a thousand people were killed as you claim" I didn't claim anything. How could anyone? That was the info of the day. I recall alot of people saying i.e. "they claim XX dead but it had to be way more" Many different sources, hospital workers etc. I was driving a delivery truck in the city not too long after the riots and talked to many people and heard many different accounts. Typical "I don't care what the news said, I was there" type accounts. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1685 Registered: 01-2004 |
"Don't believe everything you read. " Ok - nothing is true. Are you satisfied with that ? There were congressional hearings and investigations into the actions of MIG like 902 and what they did. It is all public record and nobody involved disputes any of it. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 147 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: Ok - nothing is true. Are you satisfied with that ? No, I didn't say that, but telling someone to read it and shut up, when what your reading could possibly be incorrect. Nobody involved disputes any of it??? You've obviously not talked to many folks about the summer of 67. I've never heard two accounts that paralleled completely. I know I know, public records... |
