  Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2447 Registered: 07-2004 |
Some of you may have read this. It could be posted on any of the three forums; I put it here because it will get the most exposure. This is a straightforward well written story. My purpose is nothing other than to share a compelling read...............the writers could have picked any of the deceased to profile.They picked on person, a young girl and considering the outcome for many what the hell difference does it make? http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/99999999/new s05/70621038/ | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 221 Registered: 06-2006 |
I read it and, quite frankly, I didn't have much sympathy for Lauren Jolly. She had every gift in life, was not deprived in the least, and she threw it away with both hands. She had SO many chances, including the rehab her parents put her in and yet she CHOSE to back to the drug house and get another fix. The article mentioned that she might have been more susceptible to the OD because she had been clean in rehab. Pity she didn't stay that way. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2449 Registered: 07-2004 |
Understood mtm but what difference does it make now? She is dead.She was trapped in addiction and could not, for whatever reason get out.........sympathy or no sympathy it is sad for those left behind. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1416 Registered: 12-2004 |
Figures; the one time they write an in-depth story with some merit to it, they write it about something I couldn't care less about... | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 529 Registered: 06-2005 |
What's truly sad is that so many are indifferent to drug related deaths. IMO the "That could never happen to me" attitude that drug users have towards death isn't much different than the "That could never happen to me" attitude many have towards addiction. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2450 Registered: 07-2004 |
Good post Johhny5. | ||
Tammypio Member Username: Tammypio Post Number: 132 Registered: 04-2005 |
Agreed Johnny5. I lost my older brother to drug addiction about 18 months ago. My brother going through years of drug abuse was something I helplessly watched as I grew up myself (he was almost 10 years older than me). Even though we all (my family) knew it could happen one day, his death in a crack house shocked us all and made facing his death so incredibly difficult. I had to identify his body at the Wayne County Medical Examiner after a crackhead called my niece three days after he died. Even now, I struggle with not knowing exactly how he died, if he was alone, if he was distraught or just looking for another hit....believe me-- it is tearing my family up to wonder. I also wonder if he wasn't another victim of this fentanyl as he died early in 2006 too. You wouldn't have heard about his death though as he wasn't rich or from some suburb. He was a poor, struggling addict on the streets of Detroit who died without anyone caring to even contact his family. Addiction. Changed my entire life and I have never touched drugs at all. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3693 Registered: 10-2003 |
The story reminds me of the movie "Traffic", complete with the pretty suburban girl. How refreshing to see some old fashioned investigate reporting in the Free Press. Remember when they used to do this kind of stuff regularly, in the days when the world did not know of Paris Hilton? Unfortunately, we live in a society where there is not enough adventure, a society that many people ultimately want to escape from. If, as you read this, you cannot think of an addict amongst your extended friends or family, you are indeed lucky. Addiction is a sickness, and sick people need to be institutionalized perhaps, but in hospitals, not jails. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1418 Registered: 12-2004 |
I cannot think of an addict among my extended friends and family. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 2094 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote: Well good for you. Nobody cares. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2451 Registered: 07-2004 |
Tammypio, thanks for that heartfelt post.I wish I could ease you and your familes anguish. One thousand four hundred eighteen posts 1953....are any of the worth a damn? | ||
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite Post Number: 42 Registered: 06-2007 |
mtm.. You have no sympathy for a young deceased girl who succumbed to her horrible addiction? I think you are lacking some basic qualities of humanity. I feel terribly for everyone this toxic strain of drug killed. | ||
Waz Member Username: Waz Post Number: 89 Registered: 11-2006 |
I don't think we would have heard about fentanyl as quickly or as much as we did if a rich white suburban girl hadn't died in a Detroit drug den. So who's to blame, the media for pouncing on a story about the spoiled white kid throwing it all away, or greater society for not seeming to care for the hundreds of other "junkies that would have died anyway."? | ||
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite Post Number: 43 Registered: 06-2007 |
Waz, Youre very wrong. I remember that story was all over local and national news when all of those people were dying from it, long before I ever heard that girl's name. I heard about Fentanyl at length during that 3 month period. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1230 Registered: 11-2004 |
It's good that the Freep did this story, but it left me wanting more. The tragic story of a young, attractive, suburban teenager dying in a crack house in the inner city isn't new. I want to know how Ralph ended up pushing drugs in that house. Why that particular house in that neighborhood was chosen. I want to hear more about Debra Collins and how she ended up where she is today. These characters and details seemed to be neglected so the story could focus on the fall of a member of the upper class. Who knows, maybe their stories aren't as compelling or not as accessible. I don't know, but I do know I wanted to see the story's spotlight shined at a few different places and people. I guess that is why I think the side piece about the father of the heroin addict is better overall. It took a story we have heard before but described it in fresh details, such as how his son became addicted to lose weight or how his son conned his way out of the first drug test or how he knew it was going to be OK during that call. Overall, it was a good package that needed to be written and I am glad the Freep did it. The Freep should do more stories like that but I'm not holding my breath waiting for them. | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 570 Registered: 03-2006 |
I knew Lauren Jolly...she was a family friend and schoolmate (Groves HS class of 06). Though I was not good friends with her, some of my closest friends were (none of them were involved in heroin or any serious drugs) I also knew and went to school with the kid (Who is absolutely worthless) that the "father's story" is written about. He, ironically, told me how his parents had no idea he did heroin or anything else besides pot...this occurred like a month before his first heroin related arrest. The last I heard, his privilege and wealth allowed him to go OUT OF STATE to Colorado boulder (one of the biggest drug schools)even though he was partially responsible for the death of a young girl as well as getting many other YOUNG girls hooked on heroin that the article doesn't mention. I saw this whole story unfold first hand from the perspective of a schoolmate and it is so sad (Message edited by apbest on June 27, 2007) | ||
Classico Member Username: Classico Post Number: 24 Registered: 12-2005 |
Some of you are cold hearted self-righteous asswipes. Sorry, had to say it. Can't believe some of the reactions certain topics get in here. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2747 Registered: 10-2003 |
This chick made a conscious decision to become a drug user. Big F deal. Waste of a human life. I have no sympathy for drug abusers. | ||
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite Post Number: 44 Registered: 06-2007 |
Well said, Classico. Danindc, I hope you carry that same attitude with you when someone close to you deals with substance-related problems. You have ice in your veins, brother. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2750 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: If you must know, my brother has been abusing all sorts of drugs for the better part of the past 12 years. He chose to start, and refuses to choose to quit. How much sympathy can you extend to people who elect to waste their life away, feel sorry for themselves, and try to "fix" it with drugs (or booze, sex, whatever)? Even worse is someone like Lauren Jolly who is born with opportunities that some people will never have, and she decides to give all of that up for drugs. Yay. Party party party! Waste of a life. | ||
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite Post Number: 45 Registered: 06-2007 |
As much as I am A STRONG believer that people should be held accountable for their own actions, there is an overwhelming body of evidence that suggests that substance abuse is a mental disease. So, unless you refute that, having no sympathy for these people is like having no sympathy for people with other types of mental disorders. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2752 Registered: 10-2003 |
^Yes, the mental disease known as "low self-esteem". Life sucks. Get a helmet. | ||
Eric_w Member Username: Eric_w Post Number: 240 Registered: 02-2007 |
My dad had a saying: " You can't put a grown up head on a kid's shoulders". The death of this girl and all the others is a tragedy but a self-inflicted one due to tragically poor judgement. I've seen a number kids with potential ruin they're lives early in life to drugs. To all here in their 40's or 50's looking back at all the dumb mistakes we made when we were 13-16 years old and now we realize parents were right in warning us about certain dangerous behaviours,but did we listen? Or was it blah- blah-blah from mom or dad? This article was very good and a great warning to anyone that thinks drugs can be cool.THEY ARE NOT!! Certain posters here want to bash the young lady that overdosed and condemn all that get hooked on dope-well look at all the famous jocks and showbiz types that seemingly have it all and do the same thing and are supposedly adults. Dope is certainly a dead end-nothing good will ever come of using. Whether this article would have been written if Lauren Jolly had not died isn't the issue-dozens of others died from this too and the article shows the lethal trail this killer drug took. To the Freep: well done | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 751 Registered: 11-2003 |
"I don't know, but I do know I wanted to see the story's spotlight shined at a few different places and people.' How about Mexico, Chicago, or the east coast? How about the DEA chemist in Chicago, the head of the Detroit police lab, or Valdez the chemist down in Mexico? I just did a quick search of the chapters and 9 of the 15 had nothing to do with the rich white girl from suburbia.After reading this story I know more about the chemist down in Mexico than I do Lauren Jolly. You read this story and then you were yearning to know why the drug dealers chose that house to turn into a dope den? Fantastic job by the Freep reporters who I'm sure will be collecting an award or two in the coming year. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 530 Registered: 06-2005 |
I would be curios to know where some here are getting the idea that this girl was "Wealthy", "A spoiled white girl" and "Had every gift in life"? I'm not saying that she wasn't or didn't have any of these things, but unless I'm missing something these assumptions are being based entirely on the fact that she lived in Birmingham. I know two people who call that city home and both would be overly pleased if living there automatically made someone "Spoiled", "Wealthy" and "Gifted" | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2755 Registered: 10-2003 |
^^^If a high school girl has $50 for drugs on a regular basis, she ain't doing too badly. | ||
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite Post Number: 50 Registered: 06-2007 |
I worked part time in high school. I had more money/week than that. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9462 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: There are a lot of people that are addicts and family/friends have no clue. It is easy to dismiss it as someone else's issues but whether it be a dependency on drugs, alcohol, food, etc many, many addicts hide their addiction succesfully for a long, long time. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1231 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote: Eh. I don't know about that. It's a damn good story, well written and well reported. Speaking to Valdez is a great scoop. But like I said, I was left wanting more. I wanted to hear more local details, and not at the expense of what else was written. This is not a knock on the reporters or the staff. They did a fine job and should be commended, but I wouldn't start handing them Pulitzers quite yet. | ||
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84 Post Number: 127 Registered: 01-2007 |
Lauren Jolly and others who are slaves to drugs are important. We all are. Those of you here who think some lives are acceptable throwaways need to see that the problems some of us have in society affect us all. Murder, gangs, prostitution, theft, neighborhood disinvestment, scrappers, some child and spouse abuse, and others have some roots in drug addictions. Danindc, just because you've hardened your heart to those near you in need doesn't excuse you from tossing a whole group of people aside. We all have done stupid stuff. All of us are not strong enough to turn away from peer pressure. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2759 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Those people have chosen to throw their lives away. Many addicts are offered help by friends and family, and outright refuse to change. Any one of us could develop a drug addiction--that part doesn't take talent. Most of us realize that we have more important things to do in life, and prioritize accordingly. Nobody in their right mind ever says, "Hey, you know what would be fun? Let's shoot up!" Never mind that by excusing drug addicts, you're also excusing prostitution, gang violence, robbery, homelessness, and an entire litany of derelict activity that negatively impacts the whole of society. But we should feel bad for this girl because she was cute? Lauren Jolly made the decision to become a junkie, and she suffered the consequences. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1449 Registered: 03-2006 |
i'm addicted to this forum | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1261 Registered: 08-2006 |
I remember one of our recent mega threads on the pros and cons of legalizing drugs, and I have to wonder how the libertarian recreational drug users feel about these dope pushers in the story throwing this girl away like garbage after she OD'd? These people could care less if you live or die, nice! I would not want to put my life in someone's hands that can can do whatever they feel like to what I'm about to put in my body. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1232 Registered: 11-2004 |
A big reason these people (drug dealers) behave this way is because they have already been forced out of mainstream society because drugs are illegal. If you're already breaking one law to make your living, why not a few more? "The Wire" explores this train thought quite in depth during its third season with the Hamsterdam experiment. It's quite fascinating. Levitt and Dubner study the motivations of drug dealers extensively in their "Freakonomics" book. They conclude that everyone from good, educated people to kids growing up in ghettos are attracted to this lifestyle for the same reasons people spend countless hours of their lives studying acting or practicing sports in the hopes of one day making it big. For the few drug dealers who succeed there are great financial rewards and rock-star lives. Those who don't, a vast majority who toil on the streets, work for less than minimum wage in horrendous conditions. At the end of the day though, drug dealers are all about business. Big business. Bring them into the fold by legalizing drugs, regulating them and taxing them and see how they behave then. Could it be any worse than what they're doing now? | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 204 Registered: 03-2006 |
I, too, really enjoyed this Freep story. The subject matter was interesting, but it was also just plain refreshing to read some indepth reporting for a change and not fluff | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1924 Registered: 12-2003 |
It all stems back to our lax feelings towards addiction, be it drugs or alcohol. They did a study a few years back and discovered that when a person start abusing drugs their brain never develops from point keeping them in a state of when they starting abusing. Another one was that bad misconception that ODing was like going to sleep, when it is a painful and messy way to die. quote: Legal or illegal the black market would still exist and drug dealers would still exist. (Message edited by _sj_ on June 27, 2007) | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2765 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Major problem: by legalizing drugs, the government implies that they are safe for human consumption. Granted, smoking isn't so good for you, and alcoholism has killed many, but those are addictions with long-term consequences. You only need to OD on blow or smack once to die. Do you know how many wrongful death lawsuits would be filed? quote: I have heard that too. And based on my interactions with people who have heavily abused drugs, I think the anecdotal evidence is very supportive. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 930 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think the article is annoying. Why? Because the Freep has taken on the Det News' old habit of turning the front page of the paper into the "Big Story" that some writer is trying to make their pulitzer on instead of reporting the News of the Day. This was put on the front page instead of detail about Detroit River Days or Jazzin on Jefferson. Why do people not know about the good things going on in the city? Perhaps because of bad editorial decisions by our suburban located newspapers. Start your paper with a policy about writing the good news about your city first.. and then fill in the rets of this crap. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1563 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: Because the rest of the week the papers hadn't been gushing on and on about riverdays like the freaking convention and visitors bureau. Selective memory. Nice. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1233 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote: Perhaps you should sell such drivel about alcohol to the family of the next college student that dies of alcohol poisoning while doing 21 shots on their 21st birthday. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2766 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: 21 shots is a abnormal, Herculean effort (and the people who do that aren't any better than drug addicts). When was the last time someone died from doing ONE shot of alcohol? | ||
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite Post Number: 51 Registered: 06-2007 |
And I thought I was an arrogant prick.... | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1234 Registered: 11-2004 |
That happens probably about as often as someone dying from smoking one joint or snorting one line of coke. Everything in moderation. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2452 Registered: 07-2004 |
I knew that there would be lots of thoughts on this. I appreciate all of them.And I especially appreciate those of you that have very personal experience_ danindc and tammypio............ As many of you know I have very personal experience with drug addiction. Here is what I know. Addiction has lttle to do with much at all.I know doctors, lawyers, teachers, plumbers, electricians, auto workers, bums, men, women, black, white, asian, middle eastern, old, young, all of it and they all have addiction _ it respects no one_ it has nothing to do with how much you have or don't have if you become addicted.It is a very strong pull. It has been a very long time since I have taken any drug including alcohol and that includes time with serious pain where a narcotic would have been jsutified;I turned it down_But..........I can say that the sensation of having something like heroin or morphine or dilaudid or fentanyl hit my bloodstream was a feeling of euphoria never experienced ...........I believe that those of us that are prone to addiction develop an abnormal synthesis with these drugs.Others don't like the experience so they don't do it again.But the Lauren Jollys and me we had an abnormal relationship with the drug......AA calls it an allergy of sorts..........whatever it is it grabs us. Many of us can never get away from it. And when something as (self) destructive and as potent as fentanyl or injected opiates is being abused it is a russian roulette we never know what is gonna happen. But that thrill, that pull, that delicious feeling one gets.............it is very powerful. So I make no judgment on any one. I understand the anger and the bewilderment that people feel toward those that continue in addiction in the face of all the obvious ramifications.Just as I understand the magnetism of drugs. Lauren Jolly had perhaps a slightly better chance at stopping because of her environment.But maybe only slightly. The only way I have seen that someone stops is thru a psychic rearangement_ a change of the spirit_ a change in thinking that somehow for reasons I believe are unexplainable happens to the addict_ sadly that did not happen for Lauren Jolly and countless others. So all that is left for those that cared for and loved her and those others is the anguish and sadness that tammypio described. I for one see no point in judging her or anyone else now.It is too late. The price of death has been exacted, any comment(from me anyway) about what could of or should have or did or did not happen or the chances had or squaundered would be cruel and mean and meaningless now. My heart goes out to those of you that have personal experience with addicts however you deal with it. | ||
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84 Post Number: 128 Registered: 01-2007 |
Citylover,.....wow. I have had little understanding as to why people get caught up in drugs, or the power of it's grip. Thanks for opening up my eyes a bit. | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 223 Registered: 06-2006 |
I don't totally lack sympathy for those caught up in life's tribulations who find relief in drugs. When I was a kid, back in the '70s/'80s, my mom almost had a mental and physical breakdown. Doctors then were quick to dispense "Mother's Little Helpers" and and she was quickly on valium, librium, you name it. Guess that the doctor didn't know, or at that time, care that mom like an occasional drink (5th of scotch, anyone?) When I was 11, I had to take over running the entire household - groceries, cooking, cleaning, laundry. Mom even had a chair-side bell that she could ring if she needed a tissue or the channel changed. I had no time for regular teenage activities because I had to rush home to take care of everything and I can't tell you how many times we woke in the middle of the night to pick up mom from the bathroom floor. I actually have to credit that for some of my success at an early age (manager at Ma Bell at age 20, Magna Cum Laude from WSU at 23 while working full time). But, believe me, you'll NEVER catch me taking refuge from a pill or bottle. |
