  Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 393 Registered: 11-2005 |
I drove through the lower Cass Corridor or lower half of midtown for the newbies and I can't help but see enormous poverty but tremendous potential. Any news on any development? Anyone have any ideas on what should be done? Does Illitch own most of the land north of the freeway to? It seems very similar to brush park predevelopment. | ||
Deteamster Member Username: Deteamster Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2007 |
I live north of there. I could be wrong, but it seems that the enormous amounts of bums and crackheads are due to the huge concentration of social services and shelters in the area. They seem to seep further north as the day goes on, eventually into my neighborhood, and by 3am or so commence breaking into cars and stealing anything that isn't nailed down. Sorry if I sound cynical. My ideas? Crack down on the obvious drug traffic and prostitution. Let WSU handle the north corridor so DPD can handle the south. Unfortunately I don't see the area improving without a relocation of the social services. At the risk of sounding like advocating ghetto-style relocation, it seems that relocation of these services to an already low-income(or hell, vacant) area of the city and providing it with adequate transportation and policing could be viable. Otherwise, it seems like it is one of the few areas of the city that could soon be gentrified and force people out anyway. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 111 Registered: 02-2004 |
ehhhh, umm ?@!#!#!? | ||
Jenniferl Member Username: Jenniferl Post Number: 376 Registered: 03-2004 |
Relocating the social services to an already low-income area? The Corridor IS a low-income area, especially the southern part. Anyone who moves into that neighborhood knows they'll have to deal with criminals, drug addicts, alcoholics, prostitutes, mentally ill people who talk to themselves, and a whole bunch of other down-and-out folks. Like it or not, they were in the Corridor first. | ||
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass Post Number: 134 Registered: 01-2007 |
We could send them on a vacation where it is warm in the winter... Sunny Mexico! James | ||
Deteamster Member Username: Deteamster Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2007 |
First? This city is pretty old...did they land with Cadillac? People with problems is one thing. But I totally disagree that residents and potential investors should ever be forced to put up with illegal and dangerous activities and "deal" with it. | ||
Dustin89 Member Username: Dustin89 Post Number: 39 Registered: 07-2006 |
From what I've heard, the Cass Corridor has been rough for a lot longer than many parts of the city. It would surprise a lot of people if it was turned around. I think the reason people are so aware of it is because of its proximity to WSU, downtown, the theater district, etc...otherwise it would be like any other decayed part of the city. Although the lower Cass Corridor does have an especially seedy feel that I think distinguishes it as Detroit's Skid Row. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 168 Registered: 08-2006 |
It's a sort of Skid Row for Detroit, definitely. But I feel if a new hockey arena was built in Foxtown it would spur an enormous amount of development here. The Masonic Temple is definitely a big draw too. I think it's ripe for improvement, just like Brush Park. Give it five, ten years tops. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1291 Registered: 04-2006 |
The infrastructure for poverty has always been clustered in the corridor. If you don't like it, don't live there; but you can go moving that stuff simply because you don't like it. Geography dictated it should be there as it is accessibly by many bus lines, and services a large needy population that exists in the area. By tearing apart the social fabric of the poor and downtrodden you are essentially destroying many of the only organizations that will provide service to them. There is a certain amount of synergy that takes place there that you won't get if you move Harbor Light to spot A, COTS to spot B, the free clinics to C and D..... | ||
Bumble Member Username: Bumble Post Number: 246 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote: Sounds like Second and Prentis. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 369 Registered: 11-2006 |
I agree and disagree Detroit Planner. I believe he is 100% correct that the best hope for the down and out are to be near social service support. In a sense, to be 'efficient' it requires that the users of those support services be co-located within a small, compact area. Dispersing homeless of a larger area would make the social support problems worse. On the OTHER HAND, it troubles me to see in Detroit, D.C., and other cities homeless, housing projects, drugs and prostitution, etc. in areas which should be PRIME areas for urban living. It seems the down and out (who aren't employed) are walking distance to downtown jobs while those employed in those jobs live 10, 20, or 30 miles from those jobs. Obviously, this wouldn't hardly sound efficient. Ideally, the south Cass Corridor would be a location for upscale housing for those who work in downtown Detroit. | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 399 Registered: 11-2005 |
So I just posted a similar post on the urban density thread. What if we don't relocate social services but instead look at urban farming on the abandoned lots get a local realtor to plot out all city owned abandoned buildings as well as bank owned etc. Board all of them up once a week. Keep grass mowed on other lots and just do everything we can as citizens instead of waiting for some developer to do it for us. We all see potential here but there is no need for relocation of social services just a need for a change to the drug culture that plagues the area. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 370 Registered: 11-2006 |
I hope none of what I'm posting doesn't sound anti-homeless, anti-this and that, etc. BUT I firmly believe that cities need to reclaim those close in locations. E.g., in D.C. it is not uncommon to see folks on public assistance living near a metro station a short 10 minute ride from downtown D.C. Then, on the other hand, we see those working 8, 9 or 10 hour days living 25 miles away with an hour or hour and a half commute. We simply can't abandon choice locations, e.g., near downtowns, because of crime, etc. I'm a firm believer that we got to get people in Detroit say living along the river front and not 25 miles away (if they work downtown). I've seen too many cities, like D.C., literally 1/2 abandoned because it was easier to move away from social problems. I tip my hat to folks in say mid-town and brush park who decided to take back the neighborhoods. Ditto Logan Circle area in D.C. It pained me when I came to D.C. to see Logan Circle, beautiful homes in disrepair and the area full of drugs and hookers - it has since changed dramatically). BTW, Logan Circle is about 1 mile from the White House and say a short walk to the heart of D.C.'s downtown. The area where the new D.C. baseball stadium is being built is less then 1 mile from the Capitol. Literally 1/2 mile south of the Capitol was urban blight at its worst. It is now changing big, big time!! How can we have areas a short walk from the U.S. Capitol to be in the middle of blight and where no one wants to live (if they have choices). | ||
Soulhawk Member Username: Soulhawk Post Number: 314 Registered: 04-2004 |
I have often wondered why on earth the city decided to place so many homeless shelters in the lower part of Cass corridor. In my opinion, it was a terrible idea, and I think that the shelters should be moved. Consider what is in the corridor: Cobo and the Joe, the Leland Hotel, the Masonic Temple, Cass Tech high school, the opera house, Wayne State University, the old General Motors world headquarters, and the Fisher Building. And lets not forget that these things were in the Corridor when the city decided to concentrate the shelters on Cass. Cass is an amazing street. I feel so bad when I see the Cass Tech kids walk through the Cass and Henry intersection. So many times when I walk through the area I am offered drugs or otherwise, so I know the kids are too. There are so many places in the city that we could relocate the the shelters. Why concentrate all of this stuff so near so many vital and potentially thriving areas of the city? (Message edited by soulhawk on July 04, 2007) | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1347 Registered: 02-2007 |
Of course, the city had to play the ball by the statistics, not by potential. Unfortunately, the neighborhoods in/around downtown we're the farthest gone and had the highest amount of homeless people. It wouldn't have made any sense to concentrate the homeless in thriving neighborhoods (which unfortunately were well away from the city center) | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 371 Registered: 11-2006 |
Amen, soulhawk. If nothing else do it for the Cass students. and, yes, as soulhawk mentions Wayne is down the road also. Time to do something which will benefit both Cass and WSU. and maybe save the Masonic Temple as well if the area cleans up. I think the stakes are high and the payoff very high if a good solution can be found. | ||
Deteamster Member Username: Deteamster Post Number: 4 Registered: 07-2007 |
That's basically what I've been trying to say, Soulhawk. Statistics may have dictated years ago that the areas around downtown were prime for social services, but it seems the times have changed. I don't really know what to do. But I don't think that an area with such potential should just be given up on as Skid Row as if it were set in stone. Besides, it's a shame advocating live and let live with the crackheads, drug pushers, hookers, and very regular shootings with one of the city's best high schools right next door... | ||
Bumble Member Username: Bumble Post Number: 247 Registered: 11-2004 |
Yeah, do it for the children. . . . There are no shelters at Cass and Henry, but there are three party stores there. That's why you find the students mingling with the winos. Each groups wants something from the stores. And, last I heard, the Fisher Building was still in New Center. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 372 Registered: 11-2006 |
Bumble: Soulhawk was a little too wide ranging with his inclusion of buildings but Cass, Masonic and WSU would certainly be helped if things changed. For the sake of this discussion I'd concentrate on Cass from the Fisher Freeway to WSU. | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 389 Registered: 03-2007 |
over the pasty 10 years, many social service organizations have disappeared from lower. huge highrises one block west of woodward once filled are now sittin empty wit "condo conversion" signs. many of the small motels by the liquor stores have also been shut down. now theres probably 50% less homeless in this area. Many have died off, crack kills .social service organizations are more needed these days in the hood, where theres plenty needy people and empty land to seperate the social centers from sound neighborhoods. Its jus a matter of time for wayne state to make its way all the way downtown, completly absorbing lower cass from the north, while downtowns west side hopefully sees a new hockey arena, or just becomes vibrant wit restaurants an shops . | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 123 Registered: 10-2006 |
I am curios to know whether or not the homeless population is in a majority of the same age group. While it can be hard sometimes to determine their age due to the effect the street has on the body it seems that a vast number are 35-50. Is there a particular cause for this such as the closing of large state mental health facilities during a particular time period? | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 403 Registered: 11-2005 |
I have always thought the closing of the mental facilities has had an enormous effect on the homeless pop in detroit. | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 390 Registered: 03-2007 |
When the CROSSWINDS developement on the east of Woodward gets closer to completion and they begin running out of land closer to woodward(this includes rehabing all 19th century homes still standing plus in-fill condo/brownstone) The west side will see sudden redevelopment. Neighborhood service Organization (NSO)is already planning on shutting down the cass location. | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 1234 Registered: 06-2005 |
I know of all the shelters in the area and the drug rehab facilities...But didn't they do away with all of the prostitution in the area? I remember reading an article on how they were cracking down on all of the illegal professions in the area to help with the newer residential developments attractiveness. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1246 Registered: 10-2006 |
Gentrification!!! That would get most of them out of the neighborhood and send them to many other already poor areas. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 373 Registered: 11-2006 |
quote: "I have always thought the closing of the mental facilities has had an enormous effect on the homeless pop in detroit." Man is this thread hitting a lot of my hot buttons. One thing which makes my blood boil is what I perceive that in the 70s that the mental hospitals were emptied in the name of humaneness (end warehousing of the mentally ill). But it was a way to save $. So what happens the community mental health programs are underfunded, etc. and a schizophrenic doesn't belong on the streets either without or with meds. Many of these people probably would find it very difficult to thrive in a very competitive society. They end up homeless, probably commit mostly petty (?) crimes, etc. etc. until they end up committing a serious crime and end up in jail. I remember in the 60s that Wayne County had a general hospital and a infirmary. I had an uncle who was hospitalized in the infirmary until he died. The way we (I'm talking U.S. of A. here - not just Detroit or any one city) treat the mentally ill is nothing short of scandalous. I don't favor warehousing either the mentally ill, retarded, etc. BUT I don't believe in throwing the most defenseless to the streets either. I feel better after this vent. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 374 Registered: 11-2006 |
A little addendum post: I remember a debate I had with a guy who is a Ph.D. psychologist about this issue. It was my recollection that the move to empty (and close!!) mental institution came from the Nixon administration. He said the impetus came from the courts (lawsuits brought by ACLU, mental health advocates, etc.). I honestly don't know where the truth lies. It is possible that the Nixon administration was implementing court rulings. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1248 Registered: 10-2006 |
"It is possible that the Nixon administration was implementing court rulings." Whoa there! Those are different branches of government. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 375 Registered: 11-2006 |
I was incorrect in how this all began. I owe President Nixon an apologoy. As indicated the the impetus was public law (1963). I don't remember the timeline during which the institutions were emptied. I'd assume 60s and 70s. I would to highlight this quote: "The purpose of the CMHA was to provide for community-based care, as an alternative to institutionalization. However, some states saw this as an excuse to close expensive state hospitals without spending some of the money on community-based care." The rest of the article is below: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search The Community Mental Health Act of 1963 (CMHA) (also known as the Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act) (Public Law 88-164) was an act to provide Federal funding for community mental health centers. It led to considerable deinstitutionalization. In 1955, Congress passed the Mental Health Study Act, leading to the establishment of the Joint Commission on Mental Illness and Mental Health. That Commission issued a report in 1961[1], which would become the basis of the 1963 Act.[2] The CMHA provided grants to states for the establishment of local mental health centers, under the overview of the National Institute of Mental Health. The NIH also conducted a research involving adequacy in mental health issues. The purpose of the CMHA was to provide for community-based care, as an alternative to institutionalization. However, some states saw this as an excuse to close expensive state hospitals without spending some of the money on community-based care. The CMHA proved to be a mixed success. Many patients, formerly warehoused in institutions, were released into the community. However, not all communities had the facilities or expertise to deal with them.[3] In many cases, patients wound up in adult homes, or with their families, but without the mental health care they needed.[4] [edit] Notes (Message edited by emu_steve on July 04, 2007) | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 935 Registered: 10-2003 |
Like it or not, they were in the Corridor first." Throw the bums out. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2527 Registered: 12-2005 |
In case a link helps: Community Mental Health Act. I always thought One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (novel) had something to do with popularizing the idea of closing those institutions. Great novel, sad results. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 5318 Registered: 10-2003 |
I find it somewhat ironic that the area that was this City's "Skid Row" in the 50's prior to the Cass Corridor is the site of MGM's new Casino. The City cleared out that area for "Progress" and we've seen the result. | ||
Masterblaster Member Username: Masterblaster Post Number: 58 Registered: 03-2005 |
If URBANOUTDOORS is still reading this thread, then... If you are truly serious about what WE can do to revitalize the lower Cass Corridor (board up buildings/mow grass) in your post # 399, I am with you 100%. If you want to start an effort to do that, I will DEFINITELY help you out! I volunteer/tutor at a school in the old "Chinatown" restaraunt district that has long since died. It would be great to see that little intersection reborn. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1069 Registered: 04-2006 |
"I volunteer/tutor at a school in the old "Chinatown" restaraunt district that has long since died. It would be great to see that little intersection reborn." ACES? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9487 Registered: 10-2003 |
Follow the salvation army meal trucks and you will quickly find the homeless population. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 376 Registered: 11-2006 |
I can offer a case study of this issue. The person is my now deceased sister. Her disability was retardation, not a mental illness like schizophrenia. My sister was moderately retarded and could have done reasonably well in special education. at the time our school system didn't have special education. She was later sent to a institution (Northville) for the educatable retarded. She did not adjust to a group environment and came home without further education and lived with our family. To fast forward, after our parents died, I moved to D.C. and she came with me and lived with me until her death 5 years ago. Her IQ was test at around 70 enough to be able to make it in a 'benign environment" but not independently and there would have been no way she could have been self supporting. She had other physical issues as well. What does this show: There are many degrees of mental disability from mild to moderate to profound. There is no 'one size fits all' answer. My sister's disability was moderate and the care she received from me was appropriate. To institutionalize her would have been unnecessary and wrong. To have her on her own and try to care and support herself would have been wrong and probably a disaster. Whenever I see the homeless I really suspect that we are talking about schizophrenics, drug and alcohol abusers, retardates, etc. To me it represents a profound failure of government and society. | ||
Masterblaster Member Username: Masterblaster Post Number: 59 Registered: 03-2005 |
To Iheartthed, yes I volunteer for ACES as a math tutor!!! I am teaching FRACTIONS to soon-to-be 9th graders. An answer from Urbanoutdoors? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1077 Registered: 04-2006 |
I tutored math there as well... | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 407 Registered: 11-2005 |
I am all about it but I feel we should talk to some of the organizations already in place to see what the challenges are. I will contact Pat Dorn from cass corridor neighborhood development and Brother Rick from Earthworks to find out what resources are available to us. http://casscorridor.wordpress. com/ http://www.earth-works.org/ | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 421 Registered: 11-2005 |
Anyone know the history of this building at Park and Borroughs? Reminds me alot of the brush park gems.    | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 888 Registered: 11-2004 |
Looks like the James Scott mansion | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 925 Registered: 06-2004 |
The city if it is to be successful must exist primarily for the needs of its children, families, taxpayers and businesses. Charity for the homeless is great, but it should not adversely impact economic development. If these programs are thwarting redevelopment, they need to be moved out of sight and out of mind. The conceit of the left is that in the name of "humanity" they leave the whole city econically crippled and disadvantaged rather than make the hardnosed decision necessary for prosperity and social order. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1292 Registered: 10-2006 |
"The city if it is to be successful must exist primarily for the needs of its children, families, taxpayers and businesses. Charity for the homeless is great, but it should not adversely impact economic development. If these programs are thwarting redevelopment, they need to be moved out of sight and out of mind." That is a very interesting point. Never heard that argument before. Also too, once an area is redeveloped it will produce more and therefore have more opportunity to provide for the homeless with additional jobs ofr example. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1293 Registered: 10-2006 |
should be a WIN-WIN in the long run to move the homeless out. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1302 Registered: 04-2006 |
Toronto and Chicago are full of homeless folks living everywhere Downtown. It don't seem to adversely impact economic development in those towns. Perhaps its more a question of law enforcement? | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 425 Registered: 11-2005 |
Homeless will still be around no matter what moving the social services out will lessen numbers but not solve problems. One interesting thing I saw 2 years ago when I was in toronto is that businesses produce a paper with coupons. This paper is distributed by the homeless and they are able to keep the earnings as a means to survive. I believe there are stipulations and I could be wrong on the purpose but that was the impression of my trip there. Once detroit gets retail and has a certain CBD density detroit could produce a paper such as this. Detroit will always have homeless and it will alway be an issue but to move them would not eliminate the problem it would just make it easier to ignore. | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 150 Registered: 06-2007 |
Urban, Let us know what we can do to help. Start a new thread once you've talked to some people and let us know how we can get involved. I've been talking to some people about exactly the same thing. My question though, is what to do with alot of these building owners that simply sit and wait for the market to turn whilst the neighborhoods continue to degredate? | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 445 Registered: 11-2005 |
http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/brownfield10207.a spx This may be a good event for those of us interested in making a difference in the corridor. Also I have been in contact with earthworks Detroit. I am going to set up a meeting with them to discuss some things we all have talked about. Also am going to try to volunteer on some saturdays from 9-12 hope to see some of you there. |
