Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2007 » To the last grocery store to leave Detroit.... « Previous Next »
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Thejesus
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Post Number: 1561
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...please clean up the spilled milk on Aisle 3


Grocery closings hit Detroit hard

City shoppers' choices dwindle as last big chain leaves

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070705/M ETRO/707050349&imw=Y
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1365
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Really it's a big knot. Chains can't earn a profit in Detroit and people in Detroit can't have the quality chain stores they deserve. Something will have to give eventually, whether it's the citizens or the chains. It's sad though that we have the type of economy that only cares about the money and not the hard-working, dedicated people.

(Message edited by Urbanize on July 05, 2007)
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Kronprinz
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Post Number: 513
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.suntimes.com/busine ss/456423,CST-FIN-food05.artic le

on a related note:
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1366
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two things about your link....

1. That's Chicago, What's your point?

2. It said "growing" market. I sure they don't consider Detroit a "growing" market.
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Danny
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Post Number: 6157
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually Detroit News should've change the article to " FARMER JACK'S CLOSING BRING DESPAIR TO DETROIT CUSTOMERS."

There is NO other grocery chains closing in Detroit as long as this city has Arab owned Spartan Stores.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9491
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

...please clean up the spilled milk on Aisle 3



Hardly a subject that needs to be used for a cheap laugh.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1367
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The article explains the issue with whatever Chain Stores that are still in the D. It's not so much they it's just another chain store leaving, but it's the last of the chain stores that provided somewhat of a quality shopping experience. The Arabs just throw anything on the shelves of their stores (whether it's unsafe or not) and let it sit for a long time knowing that we desperattely will still purchase it from them and possibly eat it and they'll still earn a profit. This is the case with Proof #1, Mazen Foods.

(Message edited by Urbanize on July 05, 2007)
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Jt1
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Post Number: 9493
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree and my comment was not about the article.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 3716
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would the last alarmist to post please tell us what day the world ends on?

There are three great grocery stores in Southwest Detroit, all family owned, all reasonably priced, all clean. All have a great selection of food and produce. All have great deli counters.
(Honeybee on Bagley, Ryan's and E&L on
Vernor...)
Then there's the Eastern Market.

Detroiters had grocery stores before the first Chain (C.F. Smith-Pure Food Stores) and Detroiters still have grocery stores, regardless of what the chains do.
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Janesback
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Username: Janesback

Post Number: 359
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cost of security and loss from theft are often cited.

--------------------

Corporations only have one thing on their mind. To make profit for its shareholders. Period....

They dont care, they dont care about the people, they only care about enhancing profits for the shareholders. Its always the issue of money in the end........Jane
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Jt1
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Post Number: 9494
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Would the last alarmist to post please tell us what day the world ends on?

There are three great grocery stores in Southwest Detroit, all family owned, all reasonably priced, all clean. All have a great selection of food and produce. All have great deli counters.
(Honeybee on Bagley, Ryan's and E&L on
Vernor...)
Then there's the Eastern Market.

Detroiters had grocery stores before the first Chain (C.F. Smith-Pure Food Stores) and Detroiters still have grocery stores, regardless of what the chains do.



But they're not chains so they don't count in the minds of most in SE Michigan. If it ain't a chain it don't count to many. It does not however change the fact that the lower east side is left with a hole for grocery shopping.

(Message edited by jt1 on July 05, 2007)
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1368
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barnesfoto, what about the other 500,000 people in the city that don't live in SW Detroit? You can ask many people in the city if they would make the trip from their home to the other side of town for groceries and they will slap you (no offense, but it's the truth).

And as JT1 said, they're not recognized as major chains to the nation.

(Message edited by Urbanize on July 05, 2007)
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Vas
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Username: Vas

Post Number: 746
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great article.
Late article.
Its about time the News or Free Press did a comprehensive story on this.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 6161
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kroger's left Detroit( 7 Mile Rd. and Gratiot Ave.) since 2004 again only to sell their products in suburbantopia.

Who want's to go Krogering?

(Message edited by danny on July 05, 2007)
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Professorscott
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Post Number: 519
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, since I know some Chaldeans: Chaldeans are Christians from Iraq. They are not Arabs, and the ones I know do not like being characterized as such. They operate stores in areas of the region in which it is difficult to make a go of it.

The difficulty people have who live near the soon-to-be-former Farmer Jack locations is that they do not have any large, full service stores nearby (such as the ones in southwest Detroit that Barnesfoto mentioned). They only live near grocerettes now, and even if a grocerette is very nice and well-managed, it is still a grocerette and it is difficult to feed your family on just what such stores carry.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1074
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That was such a poorly written article. Ditto for the follow-up article about all of the choices that the suburbs have...

It's a shame that even the hometown newspaper doesn't recognize the diversity of situations to be found in the city.
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Mackcreative
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Post Number: 74
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a recently released study on access to food and grocery stores in Detroit.

http://www.lasallebankmidwest. com/about/stranded.html
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 6162
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't worry Urbanize, those mom and pop Arabs will feed the mostly black ghettohoods of Detroit all 500,000 of them. Their food is dirt cheap with 3rd world prices. WOW! What a bargain.

They have some fresh green meat in the freezer shelves, packed and ready to eat.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1075
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Also, since I know some Chaldeans: Chaldeans are Christians from Iraq. They are not Arabs, and the ones I know do not like being characterized as such. They operate stores in areas of the region in which it is difficult to make a go of it. "

Why does that make them not Arab?
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1369
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually Danny, they opened in 2001 and left in 2004.
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Danny
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Post Number: 6163
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"It's a shame that even the hometown newspaper doesn't recognize the diversity of situations to be found in the city."

Iheartthed, Of course. Journalism these is days is yellow! Chopped with cultural biased criticism.
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Danny
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Post Number: 6164
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's all A&P's fault. Farmer Jack should accept their shares.

Face it fellas Kroger's, Meijer's and Spartan Stores won. Farmer Jack is history.

I know the some folks in Lincoln Park may have to drive just a mile away to shop a Meijer store on Dix and Emmons before they could hit the Fresh Fare/Premiers aisles at Kroger's.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 520
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Arab: "a member of a Semitic people originally from the Arabian peninsula and surrounding territories who speaks Arabic and who inhabits much of the Middle East and northern Africa."

Chaldean (as a member of the Chaldean community): "The Chaldean community (Chaldean Christians) of adherents of the Chaldean Catholic Church form a subset of the Assyrian people, settling primarily in Iraq and Turkey. A formerly Nestorian sect, they were re-united with the Roman Catholic Church in 1553."

They are not the same group of people.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1562
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Why should we have to go elsewhere to find a trustworthy store?" asked Joe Lanier, a longtime shopper of the Livernois Farmer Jack who owns a nearby business. "It's ridiculous you can't buy all the groceries you need in Detroit."
----------------
"Here we are, trying to revitalize the waterfront and make this city whole again, but people who live here can't even find something decent to eat. Where's the justice in that?"
--------------------

Then tell your neighbors to stop stealing items from the shelves and shopping carts from the parking lot so that these stores can actually stay open and turn a profit without having to waste money on grocery store security guards...

Many of the people hurt by these closings are the very ones directly responsible for them...I sympathize with the honest resident who is affected by these closings but there doesn't seem to be much (or enough) outrage directed at the criminals whose actions forced the stores to close down...
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Danny
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Post Number: 6165
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Professorscott

Most Chaldeans families have mingled with Arabs for over 6,000 years and adapted to their Arab/ Farsi languages, too.
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Professorscott
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Post Number: 521
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Other big cities, with crime as bad as Detroit, have full service grocery stores. That's not the entire problem, TJ. I don't know what is, and that's part of it, but it's not just that.
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Professorscott
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Post Number: 522
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some, I don't know most. They have their own language, or maybe dialect, known to linguists as Chaldean Neo-Aramaic.

Jewish people have mingled with Arabs, Persians, Syrians and others for millenia, too, but they are still the Jewish people.

There are many peoples living in the middle east, and to call them all Arabs is incorrect. It would be like calling all western Europeans "Frenchmen" because some of them are.

We have thousands and thousands of middle eastern expats living in the D and surrounding region, and it would not hurt to know a little bit about them, rather than disparagingly (as was the intent in the post I reacted to) calling them all "Arabs", as though that word means something negative.
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Livernoisyard
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Post Number: 3331
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PS: Strange, but your last post seems taken from the Wiki. Or else, it seems awfully similar to it when I last read their articles about that particular topic some time ago.

Still, your second definition has more to do with the Chaldean religion than their bloodlines, although they are interconnected.

As you and I know, the Chaldeans have branched from the ancient Assyrians and were among the very earliest Christians (Catholics)--well before the Romans embraced Catholicism.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1370
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Other big cities, with crime as bad as Detroit, have full service grocery stores. That's not the entire problem, TJ. I don't know what is, and that's part of it, but it's not just that."

I agree. Same thing I was going to post. So crime couldn't be the issue, maybe taxes? Why aren't they're any incentives thrown in the deals though? wouldn't that help?

(Message edited by Urbanize on July 05, 2007)
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Urbanize
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Post Number: 1371
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ar-ab isn't mean, but A-rab is mean.
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Eric_w
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Post Number: 255
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have read the posts above & I have a question: If you had some kind of business grocery,bakery,florist or anything and if being inside the City limits of Detroit made it impossible to make a profit what would you do? Would you stay in business & lose your shirt just to be in the community? To me that would not be feasible
Farmer Jack's is going totally out of business-within the city & the burbs. Sadly they could not compete against Kroger,Wal-Mart & other outlets all over. I live in Lincoln Park & we are losing a store and another one close by in Allen Park too. If Kroger could make profits within the city they would I believe put stores there-if they care as much as another poster cited in a quote about profits. If there's money to be made,they go where the money is.
I worked in Detroit at a Chatham's Supermarket on W. Chicago by Southfield. We had good overall sales but a lot of losses because of shoplifting and other theft. Each month we had to rent trucks to drive all over the neighborhood to round up carts-another expense that cut into the bottom line. By 1977 or 78 I think they abandoned the store due to the above problems. Ever wonder why many of the local Arab or Chaldean owned independents have corrals where you can't take carts out to your car? The facts are Many of Detroit's Citizens are poor according to national statistics-there's not a lot of dollars to be spent & with the other hurdles it doesn't make any sense economically to put businesses in there.
Another question :Why isn't there a black owned grocery chain? Maybe some well heeled African Americans could put together some capital and get a Detroit based grocery chain going. I hear a lot of talk about guys like Jerome Bettis, Robert Porcher,John Salley and others that supposedly love Detroit and want to invest in it. Well this seems like a golden opportunity that would fill a huge void for the folks in town they profess to love. It would be a great thing for the people.
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Danny
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Post Number: 6167
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric_w

There is a black grocery chain. It's called FOODLAND. There used to be a lot in Detroit area but move out suburbantopia looking to white folks to by their food and it worked for a while. They even put one on 8 Mile Rd. and Evergreen in Southfield, MI. Just to reach out to the black community and making sure the black-owned chain didn't sell the black community out.
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Abracadabra
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Username: Abracadabra

Post Number: 47
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, look at the bright side. With Farmer Jack closing up, now city dwellers can ask suburbanites "Well, yeah, but where do you buy groceries?"
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Dds
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Post Number: 271
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Another question :Why isn't there a black owned grocery chain? Maybe some well heeled African Americans could put together some capital and get a Detroit based grocery chain going. I hear a lot of talk about guys like Jerome Bettis, Robert Porcher,John Salley and others that supposedly love Detroit and want to invest in it. Well this seems like a golden opportunity that would fill a huge void for the folks in town they profess to love. It would be a great thing for the people.



For the same reason nobody else wants to open up here. The reasons were pretty much flatly stated in the News article. It's a business decision, and it appears opening up a chain grocery store in the city is bad business. Sad, but true.
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Deteamster
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Username: Deteamster

Post Number: 5
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm upset. While FJ's was rather expensive, I enjoyed shopping at the one on Jefferson. Clean, and the employees were union. I worked at a FJ years back, one that is now closing. Glad I got outta there.
While Kroger is generally a respectable corporation, they're starting to annoy me. I worked for them, and they're also a good, union workplace, where its possible to eventually earn a living wage without becoming management(the same cannot be said for Wal-Mart, which is run out of the Deathstar).
Kroger closed a MI Teamster warehouse a few months back, but the big little thing...
In their ostentatious ads beckoning all the lost FJ customers to drive 25 miles to their store, they have some innocuous headline,
"your neighborhood grocer!"
and a picture of the Detroit skyline.
WTH? Sure not my neighborhood grocer. Or anyplace near that skyline. Wrong city, misers.

That aside, it seems rather unbelievable that there is NO market for a chain grocery store in Detroit. I think these corporations are short-sighted and stuck on old ideas(like that Detroit sucks). The Kroger on Gratiot and Jefferson FJ were in rather moronic locations IMO. What about something in Brush Park or nearby? Close to the CBD, rather central location, and near Eastern Market? Plenty of vacant land for development.
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Iheartthed
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Post Number: 1076
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Far be it for me to tell anyone how to classify themselves...

...but Chaldean denotes a religion. As does Muslim. To my understanding, an Arab can be either. And some Arabs come from Africa.

Why can't a Jewish person be Arab if they can be European?
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1374
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The reason they were in those locations because they wanted to be close enough to where they could serve the city and still lure some suburbanites to those locations as well. Plus, FJ thought the Jefferson Village Development would help their business as well (didn't happen). Also, NE Detroit demographically isn't the poorest area in the city.
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Sweets8772
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought Buschs' market was going to take and open all the Farmer Jacks that Kroger didn't...That's what I saw on the news
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Higgs1634
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Post Number: 129
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Abracadabra-

Kroger (which bought up all the closing FJs in the suburbs), Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Spartan STores, Meijer, Wal-Mart, Target, neighborhood grocery stores...should I go on?
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Jt1
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Someone doesn't understand sarcasm. Does everyone in the burbs lack a sense of humor? :-)
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Urbanize
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Post Number: 1375
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Higgs:

Link please.

(Message edited by Urbanize on July 05, 2007)
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Higgs1634
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Post Number: 130
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sorry that was sarcasm in response...
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Professorscott
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Post Number: 523
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sweets, there was no single chain that made a move to buy all the stores, much less the stores Kroger chose not to buy. Kroger bought quite a few, maybe a third, and then a few other more local type chains bought a few others. There are still quite a few that appear to be doomed to just shut down.
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Urbanize
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Post Number: 1376
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The last thing I want to see is a crappy Grocer buy the Location on Jefferson (like the Kroger on Gratiot).
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Jt1
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My bad - my sarcasm meter must have broke down on me. Stupid low cost sarcasm meter.
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Urbanize
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Post Number: 1377
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh no, I was talking to Sweets. I wasn't thinking about y'all (particularly you Jt1).
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Jt1
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Urbanize - I was talkin to Higgs about pointing out his lacking a sense of humor when I completely missed that he was countering sarcasm with sarcasm.

Looks like I really messed things up with missing Higgs sacasm. Sorry all.
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Vintagesoul
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok how did this become about the difference between Arabs and Chaldeans?

I read the study on Detroit as a "Food Desert". I found it extremely fascinating, and most definitely true. I try to eat healthy as best as I can in the city. Thank goodness for U Foods, Eastern Mkt (and the surrounding shops) as well as Honeybee. But, if I really feel like I need something more I will make the trek to Westborn in Royal Oak. I'm certain that a lot of my neighbors who are not as well off as I am (and I'm not that well off) cannot do what I do to eat healthy for many of the reasons listed in that report. Mainly the convenience of the local liquor and party stores that accept food stamps for everything but food.

This is a bit of a touchy subject for me, because I already believe that it is an atrocity that in this country it is cheaper and easier to live off of fast food and junk food than it is to eat healthy and have access to fresh produce and meat. I'm not a health nut by any means, but that report was right - the Food Stamp program should be used to buy healthy foods. I know that it is just as much up to the individual receiving the food stamps to ensure they are eating right and they may not make the best decisions (which may have led them to their financial situation in the first place) but that being said, those who are in that situation and do want to eat healthy do not have many options within the city limits. They are many times closer to a party store (owned by any ethnic background) that does not have any kind of fresh produce, does not have any kind of fresh meat, but has rather canned meat and canned vegetables both of which do not make up a healthy diet.

Sorry to blather on, but I feel very strongly about people having equal access to certain things that every human should have access to. There is no reason why there can't be a better quality of grocery store in the city. It doesn't have to be fancy, it could still operate under the Spartan name and provide quality food.
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Livernoisyard
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Post Number: 3332
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There might be some interesting reading of the Wiki article on FJ as it gets edited over the next few days.
quote:

Farmer Jack was a 67-store supermarket chain in southeastern Michigan. The Detroit-based company was owned by A&P (The Great Atlantic and Pacific Tea Company), a New Jersey-based chain of 407 stores under the banners A&P,Waldbaum's, The Food Emporium, A&P Super Foodmart, Super Fresh, Sav-A-Center and Food Basics.

Farmer Jack stores were typically in suburban areas and usually part of a strip mall. Some of the stores also existed as stand-alone stores. Each store offered standard grocery items, produce, meats, pharmacy and many larger store also had a bank.

History

The company dated to 1924, when Jewish Russian immigrant Tom Borman opened a neighborhood grocery store, Tom's Quality Meats, at 12th and Forest in Detroit. In 1927, his brother Abraham "Al" Borman started his own store on Kercheval on the city's east side. The brothers eventually formed a partnership. The brothers split up in 1945, with Tom developing Lucky Stores and Al developing Food Fair markets. In 1955, the two operations merge into Food Fair, operating under the corporate entity Borman Food Stores Inc. Four years later, the renamed Borman's Inc., sold more than 400,000 shares of stock, with the Bormans retaining control. Proceeds from the stock sale fueled a buying binge: Borman's bought State Super Markets of Ferndale American Stores Inc., acquired nine Lipson-Gourwitz Co. markets in Detroit and planned an expansion to 46 stores.

In 1966, Borman announced the opening of three suburban shopping centers that would contain gas stations, car washes, garden supply stores, Yankee discount stores and food stores -- operating under the new moniker of "Farmer Jack."

By 1972, Detroit became a major zone of grocery store competition, with about six major grocery chains competing in the region, including Chatham's and Great Scott! In a speech, Paul Borman claimed A&P's move to discount-type stores had nearly destroyed the supermarket industry.

By 1987, the company was struggling to keep Detroit area stores operating amid a strike by clerks and cashiers, who were supported by meat cutters and Teamsters. Borman's eventually bought out 800 workers at a cost of $12.9 million. This started a period of losses that would eventually prompt the sale to A&P. During a decade of merger-mania in the supermarket business, Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Co. Inc. (A&P) paid $76 million for 79 Farmer Jack stores operated by Borman's. The buyout placed A&P in the number one slot among grocery stores in the Detroit area, with control of 36% of the market. By 1994, nearly all A&P stores in Metro Detroit had been converted to Farmer Jack stores.

Restructuring

The current Farmer Jack logo adopted as part of the failed "We're Thinking Fresh" slogan.

Through the 1990s, Farmer Jack began to lose its dominance in the Detroit market, partially because of competition from new-comers Meijer and Kroger (and in later years, Wal-Mart, which offered a larger variety of services). In 2002, the chain reorganized, closed four stores and cut headquarters staff. About thirty 24-hour stores trimmed hours. In 2005, the chain was officially up for sale, and the initial plan was to sell the chain to Spartan Stores, while still keeping labor contracts with the United Food and Commercial Workers intact. However, Spartan backed out of the deal and, combined with a ten percent wage concession from its unionized workers, the decision was made not to sell the chain.

Liquidation

In April 2007 A&P announced its decision to sell Farmer Jack. A&P cited poor performance as well as a desire to focus on its core Northeast Division. All 66 store locations have been put out to bid, with 19 units receiving no offers during the initial phase.

Final Demise

In June 2007, the Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Co (A&P), the parent company of Farmer Jack, announced that all remaining Farmer Jack stores were slated to be sold or closed by July 7, 2007.

Community

Farmer Jack was perhaps best known for its slogan and jingle, which often was heard on WJR and WOMC: "It's always Savings Time at Farmer Jack." Their inaugural slogan, in rolling out the Farmer Jack concept, was "Bushel and case prices, no matter how little or how much you buy." In May 2006, the company announced it was reintroducing the slogan with a refreshed advertising campaign.

Farmer Jack was one of the few grocery store chains operating in the city of Detroit. It opened a 60,000 square-foot store in Highland Park on the site of Henry Ford's first assembly plant. (There was controversy in 2004 when Farmer Jack closed another location in Highland Park. In 2003, a 64,000-square-foot store opened at the corner of Jefferson and St. Jean, becoming the largest Farmer Jack store in Michigan. It closed in 2007.



(Message edited by Livernoisyard on July 05, 2007)
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Danny
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's amazing that Farmer Jack started out from a Jewish owned meat markets that eventually being brought out by A&P and then Kroger kick it out, Meijer's stomp it out and Wal-mart took it someplace else.
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Paulmcall
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 5:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As many of you may know, the grocery business has a tight profit margin. That's a big reason stores have left the city. They can't afford high insurance, food theft and missing carts (that people use to transport their groceries home). After that, they are in the hole. Adios Detroit.
People that have stayed are sweating bullets to stay alive in more ways than one.
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Iheartthed
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^Thank you for para-phrasing the article.
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Jt1
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What a surprise that Paulmcall posts on this thread.
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Rooms222
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 6:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would be interesting to see how the "bidding" really worked. Apparently, Kroger could pay A&P no more than 58.6 (or so) million dollars or it would trigger an anti-trust investigation by the federal government. That is one reason Kroger did not buy a few more stores. A&P is trying to merge with Pathmark to become totally dominant in NYC/NJ, a merger which is going under anti-trust scrutiny. They are getting rid of Detroit and New Orleans, and now only own stores from VA to CT on the East Coast.
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Supersport
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who are we kidding people? Farmer Jack sucks ass, and I for one am not sad to see them leave. Eastern Market and one of the Meijer stores 10 minutes away is where I shop. I'd rather support a Michigan based store in the suburbs than some poorly run chain like Farmer Jacks in the city.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

They are getting rid of Detroit and New Orleans, and now only own stores from VA to CT on the East Coast.

Strange coincidence that Forbes lists both New Orleans and Detroit as the two most-failed cities...
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Bob
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not really sure that is a coincidence, but probably more of the reason A&P got out of those two markets.
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Thejesus
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Other big cities, with crime as bad as Detroit, have full service grocery stores. That's not the entire problem, TJ. I don't know what is, and that's part of it, but it's not just that."

Yeah. It's not just the crime. Surely Oakland county is responsible for this somehow too.

I get the feeling the average Detroiter blames the residents of Troy for this more than they blame the clowns that stole the food off the shelves and the carts from the parking lot.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A newer Family Dollar store on Vernor had all of its first sixty or so carts stolen within its first few days or weeks of its opening for business. And they have a full-time security guard. Bums were using them for stealing/hauling scrap.
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14509glenfield
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can I discard my RCIA Local 876 card? Issued in 1969.
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Mpow
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

another indicator that detroit is ahead of its time. long live the small mom and pop, a la honey bee. thanks god there arn't any walmarts anywhere.
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Jenniferl
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An idea-- Why don't grocery stores sell or rent carts to customers? Obviously, there is a high demand for these carts, but you can't buy them anyplace that I've ever heard of.
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Thejesus
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^something to do with crackheads and bums not having any money
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Forty or fifty years ago, the major grocers would drive around in pickups and gather up dozens of their carts in the neighborhoods every day or so when their carts in the stores were running low. This happened most everywhere in urban areas, especially ghettos. Kids using them for play or converting the metal ones for BBQ grills were typical uses for them.
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Iheartthed
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hand held baskets could be substituted for shopping carts.
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Deteamster
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Glenfield, It's UFCW now...and I wouldn't go there...your back dues must be ten million dollars!
Just stay out of the grocery business(as if that'll be a problem).
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Karl
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit should have seen the writing on the wall when Hudsons closed - going from the biggest/largest/etc in the world to a landfill/vacant lot. They didn't close/leave/sell out because they were making money by the bucketful in Detroit. "Shrinkage" was terrible, safety issues, we've heard it all before on many threads here.

I'm surprised the chains lasted so long. The family stores are the only ones willing to pack heat so they can protect themselves. Someone above said other cities with similar situations have chain stores - not true - do you really think unsafe neighborhoods anywhere have new, modern stores with the latest/freshest in produce/food items?

Janesback's post above that "it's all about money" is silly. Why must Detroit have such an entitlement attitude? Yes, we all need to eat, but if you want to treat corporations poorly by "shrinking" their inventory and disappearing their carts after one week, don't expect anyone except Mother Waddles to be running food outlets.

It is safer in the burbs, and when there are "incidents" in the groceries the cops will show up to help in a reasonable time.

Help fix what is going on within the homes, or expect more of the same.
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Barnesfoto
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 2:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"People that have stayed are sweating bullets to stay alive in more ways than one."

golly, that must be why both E&L and Honeybee both have quadrupled their floor space in the last 3 years.

But I've been busted for being Southwestcentric.

Yet I used to venture to both the Eastern Market and Hamtramck to buy groceries...
I was in Detroit last week, and my favorite Hamtramck grocery, Bozeks, is undergoing remodeling, but the Bangladeshi stores on Conant are still there. None of the Polish Markets seem to sell my favorite Bangladshi bread,
Methi Parahtha. But then the Bangladeshi stores don't sell good pickles, nor do they have the cute girls at the register that announce my total in a language that I don't understand.
Ochim what?


and again, ahem, Eastern Market.

Sorry, I don't know where to get groceries in Northwest Detroit. Dearborn, perhaps?
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Crash_nyc
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 3:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looking on the bright side...

At the very least, this could be an opportunity for smaller local businesses to capitalize. If their high prices and (comparatively) low quality are the result of not enough money coming in to pay the lease, then an increased volume of customers should give them the opportunity to simultaneously balance their books, charge lower prices, and increase the overall quality and range of their products.

It happened in my neighborhood in Brooklyn (our neighborhood has no chain supermarkets). While it was gentrification that brought in more customers to our local independantly-owned, medium-sized supermarket (as opposed to an elimination of options otherwise), over the past 10 years, prices have dropped, and quality has risen. The prices of vegetables & meats in particular, have become comparable (and in some cases lower), than what you find in the chains.

All along, we've been able to help a business owned by someone who lives right here our neighborhood, rather than having our money funnelled-out to some fat-cat sitting behind a mahogany desk at some corporate chain's headquarters.
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Royce
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 4:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric_w's post was on the money. Sorry, but that's the harsh reality of living in Detroit. For each step this city takes forward with things like RiverDays, it takes two steps back with the closing of these Farmer Jacks.

People affected by these closures complain about the loss of this or that in their neighborhoods, but not enough of those affected realize that it takes commitment, investment of time and money, education, and sacrifice(sometimes human lives through deaths from armed robberies) to run a business in the city. Those willing to take on the challenge face incredible hurdles.

Detroit needs help, but the help that Detroit needs is going to have to come from within, not from the outside(the federal government is too busy spending money on a war and protecting us from terrorists to help Detroit). The citizens of this city are the only ones that are going to save Detroit at this point. Sports teams, new arenas, and the fans who support them aren't enough to really save Detroit. The problem is there just aren't enough Detroiters willing to invest in the things that I mentioned earlier that will make Detroit and Detroiters successful. Yeah, there's hope, but hope is fading.
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Crash_nyc
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 4:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those willing to take on the challenge face incredible hurdles.

The owner of our now-successful (finally!) local supermarket stuck it out through the 80's, when our neighborhood was one of the most dangerous, crack-infested 'hoods in the city. Through the darkest times, his commitment to this neighborhood ultimately paid off in spades. I hope the same good fate eventually graces anyone who has the commitment and fortitude to operate a business within the city of Detroit.
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Burnsie
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 8:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Iheartthed wrote, "Hand held baskets could be substituted for shopping carts." That doesn't work well when you're trying to shop for a family, and/or go to the store once a week instead of almost every day.

Vintagesoul-- Forgive me for being one of the grammar police, but it should be "eat healthily," not "eat healthy." Healthy is an adjective; healthily is an adverb.
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Thejesus
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 8:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl:

For once we are in total agreement. Very well put.
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Tetsua
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 8:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 2 Detroit Farmer J's now have buyers

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070706/BUS INESS06/707060333
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Urbanize
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, I wasn't planning on that one for the Livernois location. That's exactly what I thought would happen. They don't tell who's getting the Jefferson location though.
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Dannaroo
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 9:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That article says that the Livernois location was bought by "Mike's Fresh Market" which runs a store around 7 Mile and Gratiot. Has anybody in here been to that store? How well is that place kept up is what I would like to know.
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Urbanize
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 9:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last time I went, It wasn't SO bad, but they closed down the Deli, Bakery and Pharmacy. Not sure on Variety and Freshness either.
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Iheartthed
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"That doesn't work well when you're trying to shop for a family, and/or go to the store once a week instead of almost every day. "

Actually, what it will do is prompt customers to go and purchase one of these:


folding cart


A lot of grocery stores in urban areas don't have shopping carts.

The stores could also install one of these cart theft deterrent systems...

The truth is that chains don't have to locate in the city because city residents are more than willing (and forced) to drive to the suburbs to shop. They will take your business and give back zero commitment to your community.
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Professorscott
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Still, though, it will have more variety than a grocerette; you can do your weekly shopping at such a place.

Eastern Market is and always has been best for meat and produce, if you have a way to get there and back. IMHO.
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Jt1
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Mikes on 7 Mile was previously a chain place and a local company stepped up. I hope they do well at the Livernois location.

But they don't count to the media since they aren't a major chain. (Not advocating for a chain just opinting out how the local media is so chain centric)
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Thejesus
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^so your idea is for them to spend even more money on a cart theft deterrent system, huh? Assuming that turns out to be cheaper than just buying new carts every so often, there's still the MUCH larger problem of jackasses stealing items off the shelves...what's your solution to that? Spend even more on grocery store security guards?

The point is supermarket chains don't even need to worry about these extra costs in most other places...if you were them, you'd be deterred from doing business in a place that costs you more money and yields you less profit too...
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Urbanize
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I surprised everyone is forgetting poor old Glory. Their stores have variety and the location on 8 Mile and Hoover has some of the best atmosphere in the city. It was even Full Service for a second.
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Urbanize
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Grocery chains in the city need to hire Receipt monitors and place Item Sensors at the doors like Target and Wal-Mart have. They will be much cheaper and it should lower the amount of theft in the stores.
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Rjk
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.enquirer.com/editio ns/2004/07/27/loc_loc4carts.ht ml

Here's an idea that costs $100 per cart.
As the article mentions if someone wants to steal the cart all they have to do is carry/drag the cart out of the zone.
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Thejesus
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^somehow I don't think a locking wheel is any match for a determined crackhead...

and for the store to be able to justify spending money on something like that, they have to be generating a good amount of profit, which is difficult for stores in areas where so many patrons are taking 5-finger discounts...
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Urbanize
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The store at 7 Mile and Gratiot I believe had that system as well. It's not working. They sold some of their carts to the Saveway on 7 Mile because a lot of there's we're worn and stolen.

(Message edited by Urbanize on July 06, 2007)
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Professorscott
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Item sensors are impractical for a grocery (for most items) because of cost. At Target (say), it makes sense to put a sensor on a $20 pair of jeans because the cost of the sensor is a tiny fraction of the cost of the jeans. At a grocery the sensor would be very costly on a 59 cent can of green beans.

I love the assumption that theft isn't a problem at suburban stores.
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Urbanize
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about Receipt Monitors?
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Thejesus
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I love the assumption that theft isn't a problem at suburban stores."

Don't know where you got that idea from...

The fact is that it's LESS of a problem in the 'burbs though...couple that fact with suburbanites buying higher end products, and the result is more profit from suburban locations than from locations in the city of Detroit...

really, I don't see what's so hard about all this...

I know you all really, really, really want more grocery stores in Detroit...but the residents of the city are not entitled to them, and if they treat the stores like they have, they don't deserve them

I seriously don't understand why there isn't more anger directed at the criminals who forced the stores to close by stealing from them...instead of putting the blame on them, you blame the stores for not investing in more theft deterrent systems

unbelieveable
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Urbanize
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thejesus, you know Detroiters are some of the most stubborn and arrogant people in the world. If you try to tell someone about themselves, they'll try to kill you. I wish it was that easy though.
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Royce
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At Foodtown(Lauri Bros.) on Gratiot and Van Dyke, the previous owners build a security fence whereby you can take the cart out of the store and down a T-shaped lane to your car. There are openings wide enough for a person to get through but not the cart. Just back your car up to the parking spaces that have these outlets and you can unload your groceries with relative convenience and the store doesn't lose a cart. Never seen this system anywhere else.
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Iheartthed
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^No the point is that if city residents were to actually spend their money in their own community instead of submitting to the laundry list of reasons why said chain won't locate in their community, then said chain might be a little more apt to considering a location within the city.

The zip codes that form Rosedale Park have very similar median income stats to Royal Oak, yet the population is about 2.5 times that of Royal Oak but is only served by one grocery store. We all know that Royal Oak has way more than one grocery store...

http://homes.point2.com/Neighb orhood/US/Michigan/Wayne-Count y/Detroit/Rosedale-Park-Demogr aphics.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R oyal_Oak%2C_MI
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Urbanize
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 11:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Foodtown I will admit is a pretty crappy store though. It doens't look like they've repaired it in 20 years.
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Karl
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, Thejesus. Methinks we agree on more than youthinks.

Let's be completely honest here:

Detroiters are the reason the following entities/people have fled Detroit - or (again, to be honest) died on the spot via fire, bullet, knife and/or beating:

Every grocery chain

Every department store chain

Detroiters by the millions

Individual businesses

Too many excellent teachers and other skills of every sort

Chain gas stations

Most chain drugstores

And on and on.

If you go to newer areas around the country (yes, I know, you hate them, but...) the above entities are planned every mile in every direction?

Likely most of us bristle at being included in negative statistics, but again, here's a cold, hard fact:

All of the above will return to Detroit when the statistics for Detroiters (read: people) IMPROVE into acceptable numbers.

What are "acceptable" numbers? Not sure, but I suspect folks like Rudy Guliani and other mayors who've presided over resurrgence of cities would know exactly.

Hint: (and Crash can help me here) I don't think Manhattan or Brooklyn became "family friendly" by building/promoting casinos.

2 things - one at the top, the other at the bottom:

1. Is it a stretch for concerned Detroiters to insist that Kwame have 2-day monthly meeting/tours in Detroit with successful leaders of other cities? A different one each month, with Kwame joined by interested & dynamic enterpreneurs from Detroit who are willing to listen to what each outsider has to say. Regarding the advice: Take the best, leave the rest.

2. A series of Cosby lectures to Detroiters, played in all schools, churches etc at least once each year. (these are not replays of any of his television shows, but speeches he's given to inner city African Americans all across the country - except Detroiters.

These are hard, cold facts and cannot be circumvented/ignored. Get those statistics into the zones of other large USA cities where chains are building new stores and watch the magic begin again in Detroit.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1088
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL @ Cosby lectures.

I wouldn't call Manhattan or Brooklyn "family friendly"...
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 8498
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I wouldn't call Manhattan or Brooklyn "family friendly"..."

How about "Manhattan & Brooklyn are more family-friendly than Detroit, based on crime rates."

Better?
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1089
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1445
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol at Iheartthed. I see what you're getting at though. I agree with you as well. New Yorkers are just stuck up Modern Idealist.
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Cambrian
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Username: Cambrian

Post Number: 1276
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I raised these points on other threads challenging somebody to point to profit vs loss ratios of a suburban store with higher property taxes and shrinkage from retail fraud albeit smaller, vs. profit and loss ratios in a Detroit store with lower property taxes, and no one could answer. I like IheartheD's observations of Royal Oak and Rosedale park. I'm left with the same conclusion that the choice to not do business in Detroit has nothing to do with money and everything to do with a disconnected managing body choosing not to based on subjective reasons. Call it race, socio-economics or whatever. What can we do? Vote with our feet, and walk the other direction. I'm happy to see Kroger's going into my burb's old FJ, but I will choose to spend more of my grocery dollars elsewhere, only going to Kroger's for the basics. I choose to spend a majority of my dollars at a store that did not replace people with U-Scans. Are there prices higher? Sure. Is their parking lot ever empty? Nope!
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Craig
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Username: Craig

Post Number: 199
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been spending time up in Flint, lately, and Cosby has made quite a splash up there with his tough-love unbraid-your-hair-and-pick-up- a-book appearances (two in the last six months).

Cambrian - I'm not a corporate finance guy, but my guess is that your question really isn't the question that the corporate-types weigh. Nor is it a matter of not wanting to do business with people of color. Environments like Detroit are tough for retail - theft, robberies, assaults, etc. Add on top of that the penalty paid for trying to do biz in places like this (Fieger and the east-side Rite-Aide, anyone? how about Lord & Taylor at Fairlane a few years ago) and it's easy to imagine the bosses saying "to hell with it." Love them or hate them, but the Chaldean merchants have proven to be hard-working bottom-feeders, opting to serve areas providing marginal profit & huge risk.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 6171
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Craig,

Let us thank the Chaldeans and Arabs for saving Detroit through their convenient stores. They really care the ghettohoods of Detroit especially black folks who lived there. As along as their stores are place the ghetto. More black Detroiters don't have to shop at those world class white corporate owned supermarkets way out at 28 mile Rd. or as for as Canton TWP.

YAY CLAP CLAP!! thank you Chaldeans, you all help the black folks in Detroit serve food more the the suburbanites and they really save those old supermarkets especially the newer mega ones.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 6172
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cambrian, You quote that I'm happy to see Kroger's going into my burb's old FJ, but I will choose to spend more of my grocery dollars elsewhere, only going to Kroger's for the basics. I choose to spend a majority of my dollars at a store that did not replace people with U-Scans. Are there prices higher? Sure. Is their parking lot ever empty? Nope!

I SAY: because Kroger's love a competitive WAR wiped out Farmer Jack and it plans to conquer Meijers and Wal-Mart. Their strategy is working increase most of the location strongholds in the suburbs and wipe out those stands in their way. If that plan works, maybe it would come back to Detroit and wipe out the Chaldean owned Spartan Stores. So we have to see.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1449
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If it became that big of a monopoly, folks then will be talking about "We don't want that big box thang in our city". It would really defeat the purpose then.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 6173
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Then Kroger would be split into 2 or 10 independent grocery store chains.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1450
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beyond that, Kroger doesn't even purchase none of their stuff from Michigan Companies. So Fuck them. (If I'm correct, they were originally based in Livonia) They abandoned Michigan for Ohio, so why do we give a care?
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Karl
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Post Number: 8499
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny's post prompts another thought:

Detroit is 85-90% African American, yet it appears that African Americans (rich, middle class or poor) are unwilling/unable to step up to the plate here.

Perhaps no one knows a group better than a member of that group him/herself. Do they know too much, prompting them to say "no way" or ?????

Once again, it appears that an entitlement mentality says "someone, solve our problem" but the overriding mood is one of "don't you dare tell us what to do or else" and God knows: Detroiters have shown the world or else.

Those 2 colliding POV's would send any enterpreneurs/investors/chains scurrying, except some enterprising Chaldeans (who will be gone in a New York minute if/when the profit stops)
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1451
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Thejesus, you know Detroiters are some of the most stubborn and arrogant people in the world. If you try to tell someone about themselves, they'll try to kill you. I wish it was that easy though."

No Karl, I mentioned your opinion on post #1433, well before Danny came along. However, That is what sends businesses away.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 961
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What kind of business insurance rates are available in the city? Might this be a factor in locating business there? I know auto insurance is pretty high because the insurance companies feel risk is high. I would imagine the same would go for business insurance.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1454
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think we have the highest Urban insurance in the country.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 962
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another thought: How realistic is a co-op grocery in Detroit? This would make the residents of the community actually have a stake in the business. Therefore the business is automatically focused on the community.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 2021
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

How realistic is a co-op grocery in Detroit?



http://www.geocities.com/cassc orridorfoodcoop/
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 964
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, fairly realistic then.

LOL

Thanks Pam.
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Paulmcall
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Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 230
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe Kroger was based in Cincinnati. I remember not too many years ago they almost closed up all the Michigan stores when they had financial problems.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1486
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok. Now that's an even better reason to say "Forget them."
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 8501
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Urbanize, are you saying that when a company experiences financial problems and their least profitable outlets are in Detroit, they should keep them open because........?
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1502
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

?????, No Karl, I said:

"Thejesus, you know Detroiters are some of the most stubborn and arrogant people in the world. If you try to tell someone about themselves, they'll try to kill you. I wish it was that easy though."

Detroiters are very Stubborn and Arrogant.

(Message edited by Urbanize on July 06, 2007)

(Message edited by Urbanize on July 06, 2007)
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 409
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Article talks of the high cost of doing business in the city. Which is very true but I believe that problems can be severely reduced by doing things that many grocery stores in the city already do.

1)Hire a good security guard who knows what to look for but does not harass the customers.
2)With after hours theft being such a problem make any glass on the exterior of the store Unbreakable(U Foods)
3) Cameras and communication throughout the store.
4)Hire a core staff that plans on being there for a while and knows the customer base.
5) Have remote roll down doors for the night time.
6)Participate in community events and work with the community.
7)Get the products that customers want, to keep them coming back. And try to have Variety.
8)Have good quality Meat and Produce.(Honey Bee)
9)KEEP THE STORE CLEAN!(U foods and Honey Bee)
10) Employ someone to keep the carts coming into the store at all times.
11) The Invisible fence. People want to get there groceries to their car but don't want one of those nasty steel fences. Where as the owners want to keep their carts.
12)Keep the lines moving!
13)Have a good Stock Manager who knows the ins and outs of the grocery business.
14)Keep prices on core Items low. Know when to put certain items on sale.
15)Even when the store is slow keep an extra worker around to check dates and make sure things re fresh.
16) Know the customers by name!

These are my tips from working in a decent grocery store in the city on and off for 8 years.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1504
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's the problem. Those are only the Suburban styles of running a Grocer.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 410
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not true urbanize, I learned those tips from working on and off at University foods which lacks on some things, and people can complain about the prices but they employ all of the things I just said. They have the same core workers for the past 9 years give or take a couple of years. They have had to get creative to keep business going but have done a pretty good job at keeping the business going. They have in the past made some poor judgement calls when it comes to security and produce but they have done a pretty good job at rectifying problems. Yes they are Chaldean, but they make a pretty conscious effort to be part of the community. They are not perfect but those are some of the strategies they use. I quit about a year ago because of differences but still keep in touch with almost everyone there.

(Message edited by Urbanoutdoors on July 06, 2007)
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 411
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Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know this is the exception and is not the strategies that most innercity grocers use.
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Leoqueen
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Username: Leoqueen

Post Number: 1592
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Farmer Jack Song

Farmer Jack is worth going out of your way for
You get more than you bargained for!
Beep Beepin' Beep Beep!

Hop into your car
Go down to the store
Dis-count savings, like never before

Farmer Jack is worth going out of your way for
You get more than you bargained for
Beep Beepin' Beep Beep!
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1514
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LMFAO! Now We Need The Kroger Song:

Kroger is worth going out of your way for
You'll pay more than you bargained for!
Beep Beepin' Beep Beep!

Hop into your car
Go to the store
You'll Spend Money, like never before

Kroger is worth going out of your way for
You pay more than you bargained for
Beep Beepin' Beep Beep!

(Message edited by Urbanize on July 06, 2007)

(Message edited by Urbanize on July 06, 2007)
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Leoqueen
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Username: Leoqueen

Post Number: 1593
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, July 06, 2007 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LMAO!!!!
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Crash_nyc
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Username: Crash_nyc

Post Number: 963
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 5:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Urbanize:
New Yorkers are just stuck up Modern Idealist.

Way to stereotype 9 million people there, Urban.

Iheartthed
I wouldn't call Manhattan or Brooklyn "family friendly"

Really?

Are you raising a family in NYC?
I am, and I've found this to be a VERY family-friendly city. Keep in mind that I know where you're coming from, as I was born & raised IN Detroit.

My parents were wary of me starting a family here in the city ("why don't you move to New Jersey, Long Island or Westchester?"....UGH!), but with each visit, they've been more and more impressed with all of the gems that this city has to offer for kids.

It all depends on which neighborhood you choose to live in.
When you make a generalization like "Manhattan or Brooklyn", you're talking about boroughs of 1.6 million and 2.5 million people, respectively, consisting of nearly 100 vastly different neighborhoods.

Some of the highest-profile neighborhoods (the ones you visit as a tourist & the ones you see on TV) are
not very family-friendly, but many are.

Just like any city, there are shitty neighborhoods to raise kids, and great places too. And much like Detroit, you just need to live there to know what's what (or just ask around on a message board).

Should non-Detroiters consider Detroit a non-family-friendly city because national media stereotypes?
I had a great life growing up on the East Side of Detroit, and my family has a great life in Brooklyn. The landscape is a little different, but our happiness and safety is all the same.
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Crash_nyc
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Username: Crash_nyc

Post Number: 964
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 5:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back on topic, Urbanize & Iheartthed...

I completely agree with your points regarding chains vs local businesses. Please reference my earlier, on-topic posts (961 & 962).
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1101
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 7:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>Crash_nyc

I grew up in Detroit and am also a NYC resident... I still don't view this place as "family friendly". When I think "family friendly" I'm thinking a family oriented environment, which the vast majority of NYC, Detroit and nearly every other major city in the country is not. That isn't to say I wouldn't raise a kid here in NYC or Detroit. These are just places that aren't primarily focused on making an environment to raise kids.
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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 159
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 7:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good-bye Farmer Jack

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070707/BUS INESS06/707070326&GID=LgHorACu AkGxoWKfeX3AZsaJrTbgKelWUNyFru 6gKeg%3D
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1522
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 9:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmmm. Well we must move on, as much as it pains some. What we've (Metro Detroit) been doing in the past 20 years seems to be going well. It may not be an ideal way of living demographically, but the fact is, they're still grocers around, no matter how well they're run or how fresh their food is.
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Leoqueen
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Username: Leoqueen

Post Number: 1594
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I feel bad about the loss of Farmer Jack, but after witnessing the implosion of Hudson's I became somewhat inured to it all. Agreeing with Urbanize, I am moving on and saving up my gas dollars to shop at Meijer's.
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Long_in_the_tooth
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Username: Long_in_the_tooth

Post Number: 53
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Prince Valley on Michigan and Livernois.
The guys who own it are long time Detroit supporters
and I hear they are getting ready for a major renovation.
SUPPORT CITY SMALL BUSINESS
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Bijouloveshues
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Username: Bijouloveshues

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think a focus on a marketplace system would be a good move... Europeans gather their fish and poultry from little shops that sell their goods on the street at night and only take home a little at a time so that the food is fresh every day...
AND they get exercise by doing so. (Something rather foreign to the gas-guzzling, ample-arsed midwestern population)
A new grocery store chain will come and set up shop eventually... but I much prefer Eastern Market and if there were more streetside markets that you could ride a bike to or pass on the way home from work, I think that would add a lively dimension to the city.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 1610
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit Does Have a Chain Grocer, Glory Supermarket. They have decent variety, products and meat and produce departments compared to most stores in the D. Most of all, their stores have a great Atmosphere and they even have a promotion where once you earn 600 points scanning your Glory Card after every purchase, you be envolved in some type of prize winning.

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