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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4655
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a good article:

http://www.thetimesherald.com/ apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200 70624/OPINION/706240329/1014

Port Huron - the 'almost-was' home of Oldsmobile

In 1882, a machinist named Daniel Dodge moved from Niles to Port Huron, where he and his sons - 17-year-old John and 14-year-old Horace - opened a machine shop specializing in internal combustion engines.

The Dodge family, alas, was ahead of its time. The newfangled idea of using explosive fuels such as gasoline, diesel, naphtha or kerosene to push a piston hadn't quite caught on. The business failed within a few years.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 6159
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If Olds and Dodge has set up shop in Port Huron. It's generate thousands of jobs increasing it population to over 250,000 in 1920, 400,000 in 1930, 600,000 in 1940, 723,000 in 1950, 641,000 in 1960, 579,000 in 1970, 410,000 in 1980, 338,000 in 1990 and 293,786 in 2000. Port Huron would be just like Flint, Pontiac, Lansing and Detroit all rolled up into one. I'm glad that didn't happen.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 524
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As opposed to what PH is: a city about to slip below 30,000 population and which has lost 5,000 manufacturing jobs in the past five years?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 3333
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Port Huron, being stuck even more out of the way on a peninsula than Detroit is, would be hard pressed to succeed based on logistics alone. Both Detroit and Port Huron are destined to be mere termina instead of being hubs of commerce--now or in the future.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 4387
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SMDH @ the negativity...

*singing with LYard "I too remember the 50's..."
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1078
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit is situated at one of the most heavily populated corridors in North America... How exactly is it out of the way?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 3334
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Try visualizing the differences of Detroit with Chicago. Which city is now thriving, and which is still languishing?

Obvious, isn't it?
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1079
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you saying that Detroit is dying because of its location?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5748
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 5:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with LY to an extent, as from a rail logistics standpoint, the cities really don't make much sense. Chicago made sure to capitalize off of its location as an excellent logistics center to become the rail hub of Interior America, to build its new economy.

But, what he forgets is the huge amount of trade between Canada and the US that both Port Huron and Detroit capitalize off of, and freight by air that has made rail less important even if freight rail is still highly important. Port Huron, indeed, makes even less sense than Detroit from a logistics standpoint, but as long as we're still dealing heavily with Canada (and Ontario is Michigan's biggest trading partner), both of these cities will survive, if just not as large as before. This is not even to mention that water freight that is still important along the St. Lawrence Seaway. These two cities make sense for more than just their relatively isolated rail logisitics locations.

(Message edited by lmichigan on July 05, 2007)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 3335
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Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 5:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Are you saying that Detroit is dying because of its location?

Partially... Nobody is banging on Detroit's door anymore and seeking entry as they did a century ago.

Be advised that one of three Conrail SAA termina exists in Detroit (primarily, Livernois Yard). But that is not much as far as railroads go. The other two SAAs are near the Atlantic Coast and are the important NS/CSX termina still remaining. Norfolk Southern has been closing its newly acquired Detroit yards just about as soon as it bought a 54% share in Conrail at the turn of this century.

BTW, Buffalo is Detroit's major competitor for Canadian commerce. Windsor/Essex County suffers the same fate as Detroit does--also being on a peninsula...

Much of the railroad business going to/from Canada merely passes through Detroit--instead of having much value-added in Michigan. Obviously, there's not much profit potential in that. [The Atlantic Ocean doesn't benefit much on account of ships using it...]

Detroit's port went bankrupt about five years ago and is existing today with a small amount of Great Lakes traffic. I once posted an article showing the traffic each Great Lakes port has. There were several players far more significant than Detroit. In that regard, Lake Superior ports are the major kings or dukes of the St. Lawrence Seaway. Detroit might be a minor baron or count.

But Detroit has several other serious negatives that are far worse here than most anywhere else. We all (should) know what they are...

(Message edited by Livernoisyard on July 05, 2007)
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 3954
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Daddy... what's an Oldsmobile"

"It's car, like the Plymouth we drive to the Montgomery Wards"

Detroit and Port Huron also both suffer because of the waste created by an increasingly restricted border. The natural flow of commerce is disrupted and the cost may be in the hundreds of millions per year. Natural cities are broken by invisible legal obstacles.

If we had merely the openess of the european union both cities would greatly benefit.

Look at the German French border, two countries that slaughtered millions of each other's citizens. You drive right across as if there was no border.

Why can't we do that between two friendly countries that have been at peace for over 180 years.
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 1062
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Times Herald article stated, "he (and not Henry Ford, as widely believed) created the assembly line." That's misleading. As http://www.reolds.org/oldsbegi n.htm states, Olds created "progressive assembly where each chassis was assembled on a castered assembly stand that could be moved from place to place to improve the process." Ford introduced the *moving* assembly line-- which is what people think of when they hear the term "assembly line."
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1506
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 6:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To further LY's talk about Metro Detroit rail, not only is Norfolk Southern closing their rail yard, but are they not also trying to possibly sell their main line between Chicago and Detroit to a much smaller railway, which has Amtrak worried because this smaller railway does not have the funds to take care of the tracks like a large rail such as NS? I believe someone brought it up on one of the threads having to do with commuter rail.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 3339
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2007 - 7:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Amtrak owns track #1 (northmost) of the Michigan Line east of Town Line (Greenfield Road). That track is well-maintained welded rail. Track #2--the ROW for freight--probably is still unwelded (as it was the last time I walked/jogged along it).

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