 
Jonesy
Member
Username: Jonesy
Post Number: 345
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 7:11 pm: |    |
Could someone please provide a link to this story. |
Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248
Post Number: 731
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 7:49 pm: | |
Most of the worst crimes in American history were perpetuated by whites, so please don't even start with the tired racial slants.
Here is the link for Jonesy: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/my fox/pages/News/Detail?contentI d=3758377&version=3&locale=EN- US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2. 1 |
Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1788
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 8:33 pm: | |
Thanks for the link, Yvette. (I was wondering if this really happened... can't say it was a bad outcome, though.)
Also, don't take Danny's race-related comments too seriously. |
Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport
Post Number: 11635
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 9:06 pm: | |
Danny is black, and also sometimes off his meds. |
Granmontrules
Member
Username: Granmontrules
Post Number: 124
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 10:02 pm: | |
Is it bad that I don't feel bad that this guy was shot? |
Traxus
Member
Username: Traxus
Post Number: 103
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 10:16 pm: | |
"Self defense only goes so far...yeah, like defending one's self against somebody who sticks a gun in your face? Shooting such a person before they shoot you is crossing the line? What warped, twisted, and fucked up kind of world are you living in? Very few situations would justify pulling the trigger on somebody. Them sticking a gun in your face seems like one of them to me. Perhaps I just value my life more than you do yours."
Though I'm not thrilled about folks shooting one another, I have to agree with SS. If there is ever a time to make use of your concealed weapon, this would probably be it. |
Deteamster
Member
Username: Deteamster
Post Number: 16
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 10:25 pm: | |
This news story should be posted on every major street corner in the city, so maybe other thugs will think twice about ripping some dude off.
If that were me, and I was reasonably sure I could take that fella out, I would not hesitate to do so. |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 1123
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 10:34 pm: | |
Just weighing in on the topic: As far as I'm concerned, if someone tries to steal from you, or invade your home, you are in the right if you shoot them. If the shooting is fatal, oh fucking well. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3451
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 10:37 pm: | |
If caught, alive, and convicted, the perps of the worst crimes are hopefully incarcerated. Some Wiki prisoner stats: Population statistics
In recent decades the U.S. has experienced a surge in its prison population, quadrupling since 1980, partially as a result of mandated sentences that came about during the "war on drugs" and despite the decline in violent crime and property crime since the early 1990s.
The three states with the lowest ratio of imprisoned to civilian population are, as of 2004, Maine (148 per 100,000), Minnesota (171 per 100,000), and Rhode Island (175 per 100,000). The three states with the highest ratio are Louisiana (816 per 100,000), Texas (694 per 100,000), and Mississippi (669 per 100,000).
In terms of federal prison, 57 % of those incarcerated were sentenced for drug offenses. Currently, considering local jails as well, almost a million of those incarcerated are in prison for non-violent crime.
In 2002, roughly 93.2 % of prisoners were male. About 10.4 % of all black males in the United States between the ages of 25 and 29 were sentenced and in prison by year end, compared to 2.4 % of Hispanic males and 1.2 % of white males.
At the end of 2005, about 1 out of every 136 U.S. residents was incarcerated either in prison or jail. The total amount being 2,320,359, with 1,446,269 in State and Federal prisons and 747,529 in local jails. |
Detroitplanner
Member
Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 1312
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 11:13 pm: | |
LY the big question is is there a causal relationship between locking up drug criminals and a reduction in property crime as much property crime is caused by those who use drugs.
Even getting dealers off the street helps reduce property crimes as many are crimes of opportunity (you are most likely to get your house broken into if you are not there). |
Jonesy
Member
Username: Jonesy
Post Number: 346
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 8:44 am: | |
Thanks Yvette. |
Goblue
Member
Username: Goblue
Post Number: 144
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 1:27 pm: | |
Here in AZ we'd give the shooter a medal. Don't blame him for running though...the perp's family would certainly sue in civil court claiming that he was misunderstood as a child and was certain to be nominated for sainthood one day...in addition to having an annual income projected over his lifetime into the high seven figures.
The odds are high against some thief entering a house while you're home...although it happened to a friend in Ann Arbor when she didn't hear her condo's front door and he kicked it in thinking no one was home...but...if one ever does at this ranch home he's guaranteed two .357 hollow points to the chest and one to the head...just like they teach in concealed carry weapons class. |
Pdombr
Member
Username: Pdombr
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 4:41 pm: | |
Hi all, I am new to the forum but have been reading it for a while. All I can say is, if more people would fight back criminals would think twice about shoving guns in peoples faces. |
Bulletmagnet
Member
Username: Bulletmagnet
Post Number: 832
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 5:23 pm: | |
Pdombr, welcome. I like you already! |
Goblue
Member
Username: Goblue
Post Number: 145
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 6:32 pm: | |
Some jerk tried to mug my nephew with a knife in a SE city a few years ago...he got trumped with a Glock 9mm. You're right...we have to fight back!
Generally I don't like the idea of everybody running around packing...here in AZ its legal to carry without a permit as long as its not concealed. Its a little weird to see a guy in the supermarket with a gun on his hip. A few years ago a couple of drunks got in an argument in a bar...decided they would have an old fashioned movie style gunfight on the sidewalk out front...they both got lucky when they fired...killed each other...at least they didn't hit any innocents.
About the only time I carry is when we're out hiking in the wilderness...I claim its because of the mountain lions that are around...but in truth its more for two legged predators. Several years ago I was hiking in the Huron Forest area...west of Ann Arbor...with my then wife...we had our old Labrador who was 14 with us...we encountered a couple of snaggle-toothed assholes who blocked the trail and were carrying knives...she was the target...thank God for that old dog who on his best day was a lover not a fighter...he sensed something...the hair on his neck went up...he curled his lip and snarled...they decided they didn't want to have to deal with me and the dog and let us pass...that was the last time I ever went into the woods without a sidearm. Its a tough call...not everyone has the IQ and the common sense to carry intelligently...but on the other hand the role of police isn't to protect us anymore...their job is to try find whoever killed, raped or robbed us. Its a helluva world. |
Pdombr
Member
Username: Pdombr
Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 9:35 pm: | |
Goblue, what part of AZ are you in, my dad lives in Tucson.
He warned my son and I the first time we went out to see him about seeing people packing.
Didn't and doesn't bother me. As long as the person carrying is intelligent and has common sense. |
Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81
Post Number: 1571
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:10 pm: | |
mcp probably has it right. this guy did not have a concealed carry permit (I dont' know about Michigan), but in CA I think that even if you do have a concealed carry you still aren't allowed to keep a loaded weapon anywhere in the car.
So basically this guy acted within his right but could still be in trouble for having the gun on him.
Don't get me started on self-defense and yet not being able to carry a loaded gun in the car. By the law, I am allowed to defend myself with deadly force, but I am NOT allowed to have that weapon ready when I need it? What are you supposed to tell the guy with a gun in your face? Hold on a sec while I unlock my gun, then insert the clip, and now I'm gonna shoot you?
I dont' advocate violence, but I do believe in people's ability to defend themselves. These laws (concerning loaded weapons in the car) protect criminals. Essentially you are only allowed to defend yourself if you're NOT in a car. Or you're not in a school zone. Or you have a concealed carry (but still can't carry in the car or in a school zone). It is absolutely ridiculous. Some assmaster can car jack you, but you can't have your gun ready. Some mo-fo can walk illegally onto a school campus and open fire, but some dude can't be there to stop him because crossing onto school grounds with a gun is illegal. Why even bother with a concealed carry is the real question? Too many situations where even if you have CC, you can't even use it (car, school zones, etc). Makes the CC sorta pointless actually. Crap you're probably more likely to get in trouble for taking a gun where you can't than you are likely to actually use it to defend yourself. Why risk it?
Bottom line, this has GOT to be why this guy took off. He defended himself as he should be able to do, but he broke the law by being prepared for this exact situation. People shouldn't have to break the law to legally defend themselves. Simple as that.
Criminals will commit crimes. Good citizens should have the right to be ready to defend themselves. Not just if they happen to be on the street with a concealed carry. What good is a gun to defend yourself if you have to keep it locked up and unloaded? Answer? It isn't any good.
I applaud this guy. You mess with somebody and you deserved to get dead over it.
Always reminded of Liar Liar.... STOP BREAKIN THE LAW ASSHOLE! If you do, you deserve what you get. |
Goblue
Member
Username: Goblue
Post Number: 146
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:17 pm: | |
Amen Jerome...AMEN!!
Pdr: We're in Prescott...2 hours north of Phoenix...still a lot of cowboys around...real ones...plus a whole lot of retirees who think they're cowboys. We know a couple...friends of my wife...I won't go to dinner with them anymore...he's a real old fart who announced one night that he was carrying just in case someone came in to rob the restaurant...in downtown Prescott...scared the shit out of me...knew I was in 1000% more danger from him than the likelihood that someone would hit the place..."All right...hands up...give me your pasta!!" The issue of right to carry is complex. And you're right...its about intelligence and common sense...and training...I attended the Gunsite Academy out here...those guys are real pros! |
Jfre66_77
Member
Username: Jfre66_77
Post Number: 77
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 8:09 am: | |
Nice to see a POS like this get what they deserve. You shoot to kill in this situation, because you are not going to get a second chance.
A relative of mine was killed sitting on his front porch listening to the radio. He had a revolver on him when he was approached by a couple of punks carrying a weapon. Witnesses said he warned them to leave him alone and they wouldn't. He fired a warning shot straight up to give them another chance, and they responded by unloading their weapon into him. Do you shoot to kill? F*$% yes you do!
(Message edited by Jfre66_77 on July 17, 2007) |
Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner
Post Number: 359
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 8:51 am: | |
SHOOT 'EM ALL LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT!!!
Great job for the guy that killed him! If this happened a lot more, they would get the hint.
Just down the street from where I live (Nashville), a couple of months ago, two guys were robbing a party store (we dont have bullet proof glass here) and the guy they were robbing was able to get one of their guns away from them and he killed one and shot the other as he was fleeing! YEE HA FOR HIM!!!! Its about time the good citizens of this country stood up!!! |
Goblue
Member
Username: Goblue
Post Number: 156
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 4:33 pm: | |
The bottom line is that you don't pull your weapon out unless you are facing certain lethal threat...don't use it to try to bluff...don't fire a warning...if you pull it be prepared to use it...and...realize that you WILL be sued in civil court for the wrongful death of a stellar citizen who was simply asking you for a loan of a dollar to buy a cup of coffee while he was using the knife in his hand to clean his fingernails.
Forgive my sarcasm regarding the legal system. |
Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1802
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 5:11 pm: | |
quote:and...realize that you WILL be sued in civil court for the wrongful death of a stellar citizen who was simply asking you for a loan of a dollar to buy a cup of coffee while he was using the knife in his hand to clean his fingernails.
Actually, you're a lot more likely to be sued for wounding someone than for killing someone. (Since the wounded person is the most likely to sue.) All the more reason to shoot to kill, and not shoot to wound or warn, if you're going to shoot at all. |
Diehard
Member
Username: Diehard
Post Number: 69
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 6:21 pm: | |
Am I missing something? How did this become a racial thing? Where was the race of either man mentioned? |
Oilcan_harry
Member
Username: Oilcan_harry
Post Number: 13
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 11:52 am: | |
A friend of mine works at a jewelry store. Last year two young guys, brothers in fact, walked in and pulled a gun and a knife to rob them. One put a gun in the owner's face and the other put a knife to the owner's wife's throat in the next room. My friend was in the back at the time and saw the action on the security monitor. He stepped out and targeted the owner's assailant. The guy looked around for a second and, that allowed the owner to pull his gun. He now had two guns on him and he turned and ran for the door. But the fool didn't just leave, he turned and fired at the defenders and was killed instantly. The owner and my friend yelled to the other robber that his brother was on the floor and not moving, and he dropped his weapon and fled to the back where he was cornered and arrested. Their mother of course when interviewed on TV told us what "good boys" they were. My friend has had a permit to carry for more than 30 years and this was the first time he even had to pull out the weapon. Both shooters have been completely cleared.
This guy had every chance to stay alive. He could have chosen not to go in to rob them, he could have chosen not to pull his weapon, and he could have chosen to leave the store. He made bad choices and paid for it with his life. I have no sympathy for him at all. One less turd in the bowl. |
Diehard
Member
Username: Diehard
Post Number: 70
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 2:29 pm: | |
Amen Harry!
Let me guess the mom's quote: "He might have done some bad things - but he didn't deserve to DIE!"
Mama might have forgotten to tell her kids that crime is a dangerous business. |
Dede313
Member
Username: Dede313
Post Number: 21
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:18 pm: | |
Do Michigan have a self defense law? |
Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248
Post Number: 755
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 7:12 pm: | |
Some posters here make EVERYTHING into a racial thing Diehard. The real point here is about reaping what you sow. It's downright biblical!
lol |
Diehard
Member
Username: Diehard
Post Number: 73
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 8:16 pm: | |
I know it's easy to make assumptions based on the part of town where it happened, but it's possible both dudes could have been Norwegian, ya know? |
Yvette248
Member
Username: Yvette248
Post Number: 759
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 8:32 pm: | |
LOL.
You have to laugh at some of this stuff cuz its so silly. |
Cheddar_bob
Member
Username: Cheddar_bob
Post Number: 1080
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 8:52 pm: | |
I wonder what Urbanize's thoughts on the subject are? |
Goblue
Member
Username: Goblue
Post Number: 175
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 11:47 pm: | |
Yah...or de coulda been Yoopers...ya knows what dem folks are like! |
Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81
Post Number: 1589
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 6:02 pm: | |
Any updates on this? Shooter ever come out? |
Cybersanford
Member
Username: Cybersanford
Post Number: 17
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 10:19 am: | |
Kill all the crooks. Prison is way too expensive! Good Job, we need some more dead car jackers! |
Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize
Post Number: 1811
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 10:24 am: | |
"I wonder what Urbanize's thoughts on the subject are?"
"Kill all the crooks. Prison is way too expensive! Good Job, we need some more dead car jackers!"
These people may do wrong, but we can't play God Either. They're living their lives like any other innocent person and don't deserve to have their lives cut short.
If the government wasn't so cheap and the people weren't so conclusive, we could find other ways to help these people instead of putting a bullet in their heads or a Knife down their throats. |
Newport1128
Member
Username: Newport1128
Post Number: 75
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 11:08 am: | |
Isn't a carjacker someone who is prepared to kill you if you don't hand over your car to them? Why should we be so concerned with "helping" would-be murderers? They are not concerned with anything but their own wants, and certainly not with the lives of their victims. |
Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner
Post Number: 371
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 9:05 am: | |
"These people may do wrong, but we can't play God Either. They're living their lives like any other innocent person and don't deserve to have their lives cut short." Urbinize, Where do you get they are living their lives like other "Innocent" people?
Other innocent people dont go around shoving guns in peoples faces and stealing their cars. Your messed up if you call these people innocent! What do you do in your Innocent spare time?
Reasons why the world is the way it is ^! |
Willmess01
Member
Username: Willmess01
Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 10:58 am: | |
I think it is CRAZY how some people spin the killing of a criminal into "We need to help people that cant help themselves"
People have to want to help themselves. Rehab is one way. Staying at home with your family and not robbing someone is another way.
All is can say on this is that I fully support the ability to kill someone BEFORE they kill you. Sounds logical to me. Afterall the individual that had the damn gun pulled on him was just living his life at that moment the way we all were, without some A$$hole carjacking him.
I feel safer with a Desert Eagle in my home for the possibility of some lapse in judgment of another individual. If me or my family should ever be threatened, I would have 44 reasons to put the A$$ away for life myself, and not leave it up to the mostly loose judicial system. |
Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan
Post Number: 763
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 1:31 pm: | |
quote:I wonder what Urbanize's thoughts on the subject are?
If Urbanize was ever carjacked, not only would he gleefully hand over his keys and whatever other valuables he had, but he'd probably insist on giving the carjacker a blowjob as well. |
Cheddar_bob
Member
Username: Cheddar_bob
Post Number: 1096
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 9:24 pm: | |
That's my impression. |
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