Tponetom Member Username: Tponetom
Post Number: 66 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 10:15 pm: | |
Diversity of Discuss Detroit. I have been on this site for four weeks or so. I enjoy it. I will tell you why. In a word, it is the diversity of the postings. Many different opinions for many different reasons. A few may be dismissed as idiotic, but most of them have some validity in their thinking. I am that old fart who writes about the good old days. In truth, I would never want to see those days come back again. Sure, as a kid , they were great, but the adults had a heavy cross to bear. That statement is just a metaphor. I have never been a practicing Catholic, as such. The reason being: At the age of 14 I read a fairy tale by Han Christian Andersen. It was entitled, “The Emperors Suit of Clothes.” If you have never read it, just type in the title on your Google page and you will access it. It opened my mind to the “herd instinct.” What is the herd instinct? When a black man was being lynched by a mob, or a woman, accused of being a prostitute, was going to be whipped by the KKK, the people in the middle of the mob were cheering along with the perpetrators. But if they were caught, they disclaimed any participation in the proceedings by saying, “Oh, I was just standing there, minding my own business and I had nothing to do with that mob.” Six and a half years ago, the herd instinct took over and put our country in the mess it is in now... People my age protest and we try to make a difference but we need the vitality of youth. We need the young people who will inherit our country. I love Detroit. Is Detroit shameless? Hell, no. But I like to think that the people who are living there, do care. Recently. Our Park Association had a meeting and a motion was put forth and it was a good one and everyone voted, “Yes.” As usual one man voted, “Nay.” It has been my trademark for many years to never let a unanimous vote pass without at least one . “Nay.” Not to be obstinate, but rather, to not take anything for granted. Speak out if the Emperor does not have his ass covered. |
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 2672 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 10:42 pm: | |
Tponetom, I will not let your call go unanswered. I'm confident the U.S. electorate, after these bizarre experiments, will relearn what it instinctively once knew and emerge from it all the better. "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." -- George Santayana Thank you for all your guidance and support in teaching us our history. |
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 1015 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 9:53 am: | |
Tponetom, I will not let your disparaging comment characterizing those who voted for President Bush in 2000 as having a KKK lynch-mob mentality go unchallenged. Shame on you! Such shallow thinking is unbecoming of you. Did you ever stop to think that if the Democrats would have put up better Presidential candidates and campaign platforms in 2000 and 2004, the results would have been more to your liking? |
Defendbrooklyn Member Username: Defendbrooklyn
Post Number: 316 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 11:02 am: | |
Mikeg, The Dems did put a better candidate before bush and he actually won the popular vote. The option was there, however, the Electoral College proved once again to be a poor system at best. |
Carolcb Member Username: Carolcb
Post Number: 1239 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 11:02 am: | |
Bush has created a bunch of people who voted from fear, who do not respect any culture or religion but their own. We are killing people every day for - what? And, yes, I do believe the Democrats would have at least not created this lying, power-crazy, Constitution-ignoring pack of haters. |
65memories Member Username: 65memories
Post Number: 429 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 11:09 am: | |
Tponeton...for a great read concerning herd instinct, which zeros in on your points, , pick up a copy of Our Town by Cynthia Carr...non-fiction...speaks of her small town in Indiana and racism. |
English Member Username: English
Post Number: 543 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 11:19 am: | |
Another great book is "Sundown Towns" by James Loewen. It talks about that supposedly ideal period in American history -- and metro Detroit figures prominently in his analysis. Nice to have some causal data, instead of just decrying the effects! The book is the most chilling I've read thus far this year, and as a co-chair of a graduate student group here at the University of Michigan, we're bringing him to town to speak about this issue. Thanks Tom for your honesty. |
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 1016 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 11:59 am: | |
As I remember the 2000 Election (about which Tponetom ascribed a vile "herd instinct" as the reason Bush won), the major campaign issues were Education, Foreign Policy, Health Care, Social Security and Taxes (source). Not exactly the kind of subjects that lend themselves to fear-mongering and mob action. Some of you folks are letting your hatred of George W. Bush get in the way of your ability to write something without distorting the truth. |
6nois Member Username: 6nois
Post Number: 376 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 12:12 pm: | |
Mikeg I don't think that Tponetom is speaking of Bush's election I think he is talking of what happened to our country after 9-11. |
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 137 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 12:14 pm: | |
no..9-11 was not even 6 years ago. Bush took office 6 1/2 years ago |
6nois Member Username: 6nois
Post Number: 378 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 12:16 pm: | |
I really don't care, but in the over all historical time line the nine month difference doesn't matter. |
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 138 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 12:51 pm: | |
6nois, it doesnt matter if you care. That seems to be what Tponetom was referring to, based on what he said. |
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 155 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 2:39 pm: | |
""Did you ever stop to think that if the Democrats would have put up better Presidential candidates and campaign platforms in 2000 and 2004, the results would have been more to your liking?"" I don't want either one of them. I for one am sick of having to choose between "horrible" or "deplorable" It's time to get rid off all these career politicians, partisan doctrine, lobbyists and all others party to the corruption and vote in a cabinet that knows how to uphold our constitution, build a democracy and strong society. For the people and by the people. And kick the special interests and foreign governments to the curb. Too many want the US to be too many things to too many groups. It is what it is, love it or get the F out. |
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710
Post Number: 343 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 3:11 pm: | |
First off, I hope that Lowell will move this thread to "Non-Detroit." While Tponetom started celebrating the diversity of the forum, he then proceeded to politicize things and criticize one perspective. While the herd instinct definitely remains alive and well, it is unfair to imply that the followers of one political party are a "herd," while the members of the other are not. Tponetom, I really enjoy your historical stories and I encourage you to keep posting them. I think everyone benefits from them. At the same time, I do think your political comments were best left to the Non-Detroit issues forum. |
Tponetom Member Username: Tponetom
Post Number: 67 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 3:24 pm: | |
I thought I said it all with the first word in my post: "Diversity." The deadpan, seriocomic, Groucho Marx, once said, "I would never join a Country Club that would have me for a member." In that vein, I would never want everyone to unanimously agree with me, on any issue. What could I possibly learn from that response? Let's throw a little fuel on the fire. Why is the three letter word "oil" so hard to pronounce. I have heard it mentioned many times in terms of, "the barrel price of oil" but that is all. I seldom hear a politician, or one of those hard nosed investigative reporters on TV or those TV anchor people or my local newspaper's editorial page with all of those syndicated columnists, ever refer to the crazy allusion that 'oil' might be the reason we are in Kuwait (today) as well as Iraq. I did hear the Governor of Montana, Brian Schweitzer, being interviewed by Lesly Stahl, on '60 Minutes' make some hallucinatory statements to the effect that we are in Iraq to safeguard our future Interest, rights, to Iraqian Oil. Now the flip side of that attitude is that the Governor has a lot of coal to sell. |
321brian Member Username: 321brian
Post Number: 394 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 3:32 pm: | |
Now is the time for a third party to take hold. There are not just two sides of an issue. It seems as if every politician is acting based on party lines and not in the interest of who voted them in. I didn't vote for Bush or Kerry(a stuffed suit if there ever was one)but I did vote. A vote for the strongest third party candidate is not a vote thrown away. It is a vote for none of the above and hopefully a vote for future change. |
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 1017 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 4:01 pm: | |
Stick to the old Detroit stories, Tponetom and spare us the lectures on Diversity. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but you lose all credibility when you say you enjoy the diversity of thought you find here but then in the next few sentences you make it clear you despise those who do not happen to share your political (or religious) views. If you want to blather like that, take it over to the "Non-Detroit" side of the Forum. |
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710
Post Number: 344 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 5:29 pm: | |
I agree with Mikeg. Tponetom, you are most welcome to share your thoughts with us on political issues, and that is part of the wonder of our country and our values. At the same time, the Non-Detroit side of the Forum is the place for that discussion, not this section. I would renew my request to Lowell to move this thread to Non-Detroit issues. |
Waz Member Username: Waz
Post Number: 115 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 5:53 pm: | |
I third. |
Pffft Member Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1301 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 5:56 pm: | |
Tponetom, Keep on doing what you're doing, we love it. |
Tponetom Member Username: Tponetom
Post Number: 68 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 9:43 pm: | |
cman710; I agree. You are right. My post should have been on the Non-Detroit issues. I offer no rationalization, no sarcasm. I understand the distinction of divisions. Phraseology sometimes elude us. The 'herd instinct' is omnipresent. It is in the Democratic Party, it is in our neighborhood Association group, it is in your Church. It is a reluctance on the part of many individual to think for themselves. Just follow the drum beat. Take the safe route. Do I think we would have been better off with a Democratic candidate. I do not know. Sstashmoo: I liked your"horrible, deplorable" phrase. That is what it is all about. See me in Non-Detroit Issues. |