 
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6226
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:03 pm: |    |
Perfectgentleman,
I love this county in all of its beauty. I just don't have people running this nation when social problems are still rampant. We're suppose to be problem solvers not creating problems. The system of checks and balances could be tipping the scales if we lobby the govt' and leaders. So far we're leaving it the watchdog media, but they only report both libertarian and conservative biased messages. We must be the watchdogs and write or lobby the govt' to make sure they keep the checks and balances from tipping the scales of central governmental powers. Don't be afraid of the U.S. Government go out the lobby those leaders and make sure they don't create a corruption within the foundation of democracy.
I love this county and God Bless this nation. For we created the dream the true freedom of all mankind. Yes we have personal cultural social issues, but our nation remains into this day FREE and we must defend it all at any patriotic cause even I have to die from this nation where God put me here.
If you all don't like America, JUST LEAVE! and create your free nation of your liking.
(Message edited by danny on July 17, 2007) |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 154
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:05 pm: | |
Accra,
While you're moaning the blues about "Crap" as Kwame says, don't forget the Native Americans. They were slaughtered and driven from the land like animals. It's still going on until this day. No good patriotic American even wants to acknowledge them or even realize what happened to them. This country was forcefully TAKEN by theft and deception. If you want to go back 300 years, thats going to change your whole argument.
Many injustices go on all over the globe. One could form a long list of folks that have been wronged and are being wronged at this very moment. Were blacks mistreated? Yes. Has society largely moved on and became less racially sensitive? Yes Do some continue to drive down that dead-end street? Yes. Is the solution further finger pointing and blaming? NO..
Whatever is fanning the flames of your viewpoint, forget it and go on with your life.
In a country consisting of several thousand very successful black Americans, your arguments hold very little water. |
Accraghana
Member
Username: Accraghana
Post Number: 45
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:06 pm: | |
I think that it is important to note that wealth gained from the agrarian era went into the banks and was subsequently used to finance the industrial revolution. The agrarian era was made profitable by first conquering new Land and secondly using slave labor, indentures servitude and other forms of “cheap” labor. The “system” or “economic model” was dependent upon LAND, LABOR and CAPITAL. Militarism was used to acquire the Land and to and laws and chains were used to keep people in a form of bondage for cheap labor.
In the evolution of human economics one era begets the next. Humans went from hunter and gatherers to a domesticating live stock to an agrarian era then to an industrial era and not the so called “information era”. Each era was made possible by the previous and hence the slavery that made the agrarian era profitable and the era’s elites wealthy eventually gave birth to the industrial era. Thus, the people who argue that slavery was not vital to where we are today are totally misguided.
It is also important to note that during the “Dark Ages” of European history the average life of the typical European was one of misery. The era of the dark ages ended around the same time that European maritime exploration begun….and not coincidentally. That is when the wealth of other lands began to be transferred to the control and benefit of Europeans….increasing their wealth, while decreasing the wealth of whence it came.
I don’t mean any offense, but the truth is that there is a case study of a white world without minorities. It’s called “old Europe”. It things could be potentially much greater or better for whites, if slavery, colonization and the like never transpired, I would be really surprised. I think that is a romanticized view of what life would be like without non whites…..and the resources and labor that were controlled by non whites before whites took control of them to its benefit. If I am not mistaken it was millions of whites escaping the all white utopia of Europe when they fled to “America”.
If you read the account of many initial European explores in Africa, they did not give tells of hungry, impoverished people. They told of the great wealth they say and how people were adorned in gold and the like and how they had systems of governance and strong kingdoms. The slave trade and colonization really drained Africa and corrupted its traditions. So, in my opinion, if the whole slavery, colonization thing never happened, Africa would be much stronger today and Europeans would be much less wealthy. |
Romanized
Member
Username: Romanized
Post Number: 237
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:06 pm: | |
Karl, your idiocy is blinding. With that being the case you probably are not interested in the details. Whites with less experience and know how were promoted and given raises in the same time period. Whether, people are hardly ever passed over due to race (a lie, but I'll grant you delusion child) or not, people at this company were. I and several others told them as much in the EEOC interview. So by now they probably do know we think they are "mfers", and I could care less. Oh, by the way I should let you know your one too, shit-kicking clown. What else you do have to say? |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 126
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:11 pm: | |
". So far we're leaving it the watchdog media, but they only report both libertarian and conservative biased messages."
??? I don't even want to debate the fact that the mainstream media has a huge liberal slant. Please don't even respond to my point about that, but libertarian??? Come on. That is the first time I have ever heard of a libertarian bias. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 1866
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:13 pm: | |
quote:It must be nice to live so ignorant.
You tell me Iheartthed, is it?
quote:I love this county
You could have fooled me. There are millions around the world that would be more than happy to trade places with all of you who think we are a nation of oppressors. You want to see real oppression? Look around the world. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6227
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:14 pm: | |
Kid_dynamite,
Media today is biased whether is both libertarian or conservative. They can make-up added words about the president, congress, Muslims and black-folks and still get a emmy or a peabody award at the same time. |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 127
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:17 pm: | |
Danny do you mean "liberal" when saying "libertarian"? Libertarians get no such love with any major media outlet. |
Masterblaster
Member
Username: Masterblaster
Post Number: 62
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:22 pm: | |
JB3, my brutha, my homeboy said:
"Most whites have conceded to allowing blacks to live in this country (yes, i phrased this deliberately). If they move close to their neighborhood, they'll simply move further away. For the life of me though, i can't figure out why wholesome black people would want to move into the unconscionably sprawling neighborhoods chasing after ignorant and racist white people (don't you dare tell me it doesn't exist, i see it my friend, i know where it lives). I can understand the bling.bling generation chasing after stupid greedy white people, but wake up, the denser urban cores are where housing trends are moving too. Why are black communities waiting for white gentrification when they can make thriving oases all by themselves."
THESE PROFOUND WORDS are the MOST surprising statements that I have ever heard in my life from a white person. WOW!
I am a black dude who grew up in the suburbs, and have moved back to the city of Detroit, because I don't want to live in sprawling suburbs with people who don't like me...
...but I do want to contribute to the rennaissance of a city where we (black folks) are leading the revival of families, schools, commerce, etc (Because we are the majority and nobody else is going to do it for us)
I agree with Accraghana that white folks control everything, but WE (black folks) can overcome and be successful by:
1. Promoting two-parent married households as the optimal environment in which to raise a child.
3. Promoting that the measure of a man is how much he can provide for his wife, his children, and other people whom he loves
2. Within that two-parent married household, to instill love for the family, love for the community, respect for others, respect for the elderly, and respect for other people's property (i.e. stop stealing)
3. Within that two-parent married household, instill in your child the importance of education, and hard work, and discipline, and being a productive member of society (i.e. going to college or learning a trade/skill).
Even though it will be harder for us to succeed than it will the white folks because they have more resource, if we live by those aforementioned principles, we can overcome. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6228
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:24 pm: | |
Kid_dynamite,
Libertarian media exists as local news and CNN and NBC news and they get a lot a love from T.V. patrons more than the FOX news network. |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 128
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:26 pm: | |
well said, masterblaster. 4 great points |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 129
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:29 pm: | |
OOOOOO-K Danny. That is an absolute first. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1164
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:31 pm: | |
^As much as it pains me to admit it... he kinda has a point (see Wolf Blitzer and Lou Dobbs). |
Accraghana
Member
Username: Accraghana
Post Number: 46
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:31 pm: | |
MasterBlaster....all those things existed back in the day and blacks were still poor. They exist now in Africa and Africa is still poor. The real issue is ECONOMICS and controling the productive resources of the earth. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6229
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:34 pm: | |
Masterblaster,
For a black suburbanite who gave up the cookie cutter home and white suburban family Joneses and the Cleavers to move to black ghettos of Detroit was a tremendous choice for you. You believe that there is hope in the ghetto. Well, I do too, and so is The Ghettoman and rest of his Street Prophets and a handful of young hip cool skinny jeaned white young adults.
Detroit will be developed as long as we have economic and gentrification support. Other po'folks and DEAD (C)KRAK HEADS don't want it progress in their toxic community, but they can't stop progress. Detroit can't survive by blacks or white folks alone, but by ethnically diverse citizens along with their collective cultures. |
Number1
Member
Username: Number1
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 2:33 pm: | |
Accraghana
You seem to believe that the only way to become prosperous is through militarism and conquest. Since you obviously believe that these methods are morally wrong, as most of us believe, then what can morally be done to create more prosperity for minority groups in America? The reason I and others advocate hard work is because it is the moral way of achieving success. It is also a proven method. It is absurd to believe that all successful people achieved their success by exploiting others. The conquests of the past are irrelevant to SOLUTIONS in 2007 simply because today's solutions don't involve any type of conquest.
Constantly believing that there is a "power structure" preventing minority groups from succeeding is a self-defeatist stance. There are many examples of successful people from all of the minority groups. What led them to success can also lead to success for others in the future. From my personal observations, hard work is what led them to success. |
Accraghana
Member
Username: Accraghana
Post Number: 47
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 4:04 pm: | |
Number1, I understand your point, however, please understand that slaves worked extremely hard, with nothing to show for it, and billions of poor people all over the planet are working harder than the wealthy. So obviously it is not JUST about hard work as that is simply a single necessary ingredient in the recipe for success.
Yes, I believe that militarism and conquest are wrong. The thing is this. Most REAL wealth comes from the EARTH….the Land and resources on and below it. REAL wealth is Energy and Knowledge (Know how). Knowledge converts energy to wealth through production or making resources productive. The problem is that during the era of conquest and militarism, Land or the productive (full of energy) pieces of Earth have been PRIVITIZED into the hands of the very FEW, at the expense of the Earth masses. So what is really needed is redistribution and the acquisition of knowledge to convert these resources to the benefit of other peoples.
For example, take the Oil wealth in Nigeria. The Nigerians would like to totally nationalize their resources, as well as many other third world nations. However, these nations are so poor that the need loans from the West to help develop their infrastructure and for poverty aid and the like. A precondition of these loans from the West, via the World Bank and International Monetary Fund is that they privatize their valuable resources. Once that happens no Nigerian has the wealth the purchase controlling interest in the resource anymore and a Multination corporation or entity from the West, owned by a wealthy whites, swoops in and takes CONTROL. Hence, the Nigerians no longer get the primary benefits of their indigenous recourses as most of the profits go back West.
I don’t really have time to get more detailed…..but I hope you get my drift.
(Message edited by accraghana on July 17, 2007) |
Spacemonkey
Member
Username: Spacemonkey
Post Number: 213
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 4:59 pm: | |
There haven't been any black slaves in the U.S. for over a century. Get over it already. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 1868
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 5:51 pm: | |
quote:The Nigerians would like to totally nationalize their resources, as well as many other third world nations.
If you look around the world at nations that have nationalized their resources, for the most part the people are worse off. The dollars go into the pocket of corrupt government officials. Bad idea. In addition, prices for energy around the world are higher as a result of government control of oil. |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 945
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 5:54 pm: | |
quote:There haven't been any black slaves in the U.S. for over a century. 142 years to be exact. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9598
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 5:57 pm: | |
How long has it been since there lynchings, policies that prevented blacks from getting certain jobs, getting mortgages, being able to move into certain neighborhoods, etc.
People can focus on slavery ending 142 years ago but you are happily turning a blind eye to the other inequalitites that existed and still exist. |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 946
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 6:07 pm: | |
I have never personally lynched a black person, owned a black person, prevented a black person from getting a job or buying a home in my neighborhood. Neither has anyone in my family ever lynched a black person, owned a black person, prevented a black person from getting a job or buying a home in their neighborhood. I treat black people like yellow people and red people and white people, THE WAY I MYSELF want to be treated.
I can attest that when my family immigrated to the USA some of them suffered loads of prejudice and discrimination. They worked it out and did not dwell on the matter. |
English
Member
Username: English
Post Number: 540
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 7:25 pm: | |
Eh. By the year 2200, this won't even be an issue. Unless people of European descent start procreating with each other at a rapid rate, 500 years from now Euro civ will be a historical footnote. By the end of this century, between immigration and a huge spike in interracial marriages/mating, America will no longer be a "white" nation. If the last millennium was dominated by the West, this millennium will be dominated by the East (India, China, certain Middle Eastern cultures etc.). So why are we POC still so worried about white people? I say we should do what their ancestors did: maximize the present, and start investing in the eventual future. Look to SA's Truth and Reconciliation Commission as an example -- forgive, move on, create a better future world.
The one thing I am sure of is that it is very important to educate oneself about the real conditions of one's existence (Althusser), the circumstances of one's oppression or privilege (Freire, Fanon), to have a deep understanding of human history (too many to count), and to be a psychologically intact person. I am glad to be an American who happens to be of African descent, and I think everyone should be comfortable in their own skin no matter what their race. Euro history isn't just about rape and pillaging and stealing lands and resources from others... there are wonderful aspects of Western culture. Same with African history... it's not just about slavery, colonialism and continuing pathos, but the motherland and her descendants have contributed much to the species. As a species, we ought to focus on the positive from the past, and learn from the negative choices that our ancestors and current group members have made/are making. And THEN -- we must help all acquire critical 21st century literacies in math, science, foreign languages, and philosophy. Teach our kids to be adaptable, innovative, and have facility with technology. Also have some basic survival skills -- start remembering what our ancestors knew about sustainable living, and the importance of community. We will all be fine.
We are trying to rehash a 20th century debate in a 21st century context. Yes there needs to be a sea change in behavior and thought amongst some people of African descent worldwide. That goes without saying. However, Euro-descendants also need to come to terms with the fact that from the standpoint of evolution, what seemed logical and superior (industrialization, humanism & individualism) looks like it may actually mean the end of Western hegemony. Thomas Friedman's *The World is Flat* should be a wake up call to all... but eh, it's more convenient to have a scapegoat, and keep talking the same black vs. white nonsense that has been the discourse in this country since the 1960s. Meanwhile, our country and our civilization is being swindled out from under your feet. The Darwinian arguments of 100 years ago will seem a bit ironic 100 years from now, no?
Our great-great-great-great grandchildren will look back at us with the same bewilderment as we look back at antebellum America with. I am sure they will say: what was with all that bluster? There is only one race -- HUMAN. Because "la limpieza de la sangre", which was born 600 years ago in Iberia, dies this millennium. And ironically, it is the children of those who invented the concept who will kill it. For the Latino world, which is an amalgamation of Euro, African, and ancient Asian (via Native Americans) genes will prove to be prophetic. They are a sign of "la raza del futuro." Our posterity will sort this all out, love each other... and do something more productive with our intelligence, like colonizing the galaxy. I say we take the $$$ spent on these global wars sparked by ancient hatreds and go terraform Mars or something.
(And now you folks think I'm a kook... but mark my words, you'll see I'm right!)
(Message edited by English on July 17, 2007) |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 950
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 7:30 pm: | |
Limpieza de sangre was a very important concept among Spaniards who settled in the Americas. The Laws of the Indies repeatedly banned descendants of Conversos and those reconciliated with the Inquisition of settling in the Americas (the reiteration suggests that the laws were often ineffectual)[1]. The philosophy led to the separation of the various peoples in the colonies and created a very intricate list of nomenclature to describe one's precise race and, by consequence, one's place in society. To illustrate how complex this nomenclature became the following list was in use in New Spain (Mexico) during the eighteenth century: [6]
* Spaniard and Indian = Mestizo (50% European and 50% Native American)
* Mestizo and Spanish woman = Castizo (75% European and 25% Native American)
* Castizo woman and Spaniard = Spaniard (87.5% European and 12.5% Native American)
* Spanish woman and black man = Mulatto (50% European and 50% African)
* Spaniard and Mulatto = Morisco (75% European and 25% African)
* Morisco woman and Spaniard = Albino (87.5% European and 12.5% African)
* Spaniard and Albino woman = Torna atrás (lit. "turn back") (75% European and 25% African)
* Indian man and Torna atrás woman = Lobo (50% Native American, 37.5% European, and 12.5% African)
* Lobo and Indian woman = Zambaigo (75% Native American, 18.75% European, and 6.25% African)
* Zambaigo and Indian woman = Cambujo (87.5% Native America, 9.375% European, and 3.125% African)
* Cambujo and mulatto woman = Albarazado (43.75% Native American, 29.6875% European, and 26.5625% African)
* Albarazado and Mulatto woman = Barcino (40.43% European, 21.87% Native American, and 37.7% African)
* Barcino and Mulatto woman = Coyote
* Coyote woman and Indian man = Chamiso
* Chamiso woman and Mestizo = Coyote mestizo
* Coyote mestizo and Mulatto woman = Ahí te estás ("there you are")
This list represents only some of the existing social and legal terms put in place by the colonizing Spaniards to firmly establish how far away one is from pure European blood. Every Spanish colony had its own, equally complex, system of determining one's racial genealogy. They did not block intermixing but placed the result of interracial relations in the caste system.
Source:Wikipedia |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 132
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 7:33 pm: | |
English, props on your post! |
English
Member
Username: English
Post Number: 542
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 7:43 pm: | |
Thanks Quozi for clarification. It's not my area of expertise, but I took a great class @ Wayne State on the origins of modern race relations. They actually are rooted in the Crusades, with the first post-Roman contacts with the Other. Very interesting stuff, and puts things into perspective.
And thanks to the Kid. We should all make love and not war! :P I love how open the younger generation is to interracial dating, marriage and procreating. They have taught me to be less reverse-racist and more open to other cultures in recent years. Went to a wonderful Detroit wedding a couple of weeks ago, where a cute young sista married a cool white dude with a long ponytail... they met in college, been together 4 years... and everyone on both sides was having a great time! Once over 50% of Americans are of mixed ancestry we'll stop this NAACP vs. KKK nonsense. Made sense in 1960... makes no sense in almost 2010.
(BTW, where's my flying car??? It's almost 10 years into the 21st century... and no flying cars???) |
Jb3
Member
Username: Jb3
Post Number: 212
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 7:51 pm: | |
Hehheh, people can hardly drive. Can you imagine everyone flying around? |
Admin
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 611
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 10:00 pm: | |
test |
Accraghana
Member
Username: Accraghana
Post Number: 48
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 10:18 pm: | |
English,
You give the world a longevity that I do not….at least not before a purging of millions, if not billions from sort of nuclear or biological holocaust as we humans compete for hegemony over finite resources. You see…. humans are in a seeming infinite loop constantly repeating the same thing over and over. War, conquest, War, conquest, war conquest. With each cycle human knowledge and power advances and the cycle become more destructive. With the current advancements of human technology, splitting atoms, cracking the human genome, cloning and the like we have reached advancement that extends the longevity and comfort of life to levels not seen since the biblical days of giants upon the earth. However, advancement and progress in the present is simply credit with the offsetting debit, in the double entry bookkeeping of nature, manifesting in the future. We advance human life from our knowledge growth only to subtract from the longevity of human existence. We don’t employ economic systems built upon cooperation…. but rather a winner takes all competition and militaries and WAR is the means to the end. Humanity will first have to hit bottom with a major purging of life of biblical proportions before all these “isms” wane and we simply become “Human”.
Other than that...the only thing that will bring humans together is an invasion by alien beings....Nothing promotes unity like a common enemy out to get us all.
(Message edited by accraghana on July 17, 2007) |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 133
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 10:34 pm: | |
"Other than that...the only thing that will bring humans together is an invasion by alien beings.."
Good summarizing sentence of your mindset. That explains a lot about your posts. Fortunately, there are many others that are optimistic about the future. |
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