  Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1634 Registered: 01-2005 |
Was just reading in the web edition of The Detroit News about gas being 3.23 a gallon back in the Detroit area, highest in the nation. Y'know, that just does not make any sense. I'm out here in the damn desert. Nearest refinery is nearly 300 miles away, and our gas comes through pipelines from L.A., 250 miles away. But I just paid 2.99, and there's a few pumps even cheaper. On my Vegas-Detroit trip and back last month, paid as little as 2.78 in Oklahoma and Missouri. It would be comical if it wasn't so important. | ||
Carolcb Member Username: Carolcb Post Number: 1206 Registered: 11-2006 |
I paid $3.17 this AM and tried not to look. For unleaded cheap stuff at Kroger. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1134 Registered: 02-2006 |
Here we go again. I know I haven't paid $3.00 in quite some time, currently around $3.50 I believe, and I paid as high as $3.99 for regular a few months ago. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 889 Registered: 07-2005 |
I paid $3.15/gal at the Costco on Middlebelt Rd in Livonia last night. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1691 Registered: 02-2007 |
I found $3.07 at the Marathon on Gratiot and Mack. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 134 Registered: 02-2004 |
http://www.detroitgasprices.co m/ | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 716 Registered: 01-2006 |
Funny, if the price of milk doubled in a 2 year span there would be immediate government action and assurance that the trend will be reversed. | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 359 Registered: 05-2006 |
quote: Unless “W” and his veep owned dairy farms. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2847 Registered: 10-2003 |
Milk is good for you. Rampant and reckless consumption of gasoline--not so much. I'd argue that our government does plenty to keep the price of gasoline under control. They COULD be taxing the shit out of it. Based on the relative elasticity of the price of gas (because most of you refuse to give up your SUVs, move closer to your job, or drive less), they could have us at European levels of pricing in no time. People would STILL line up for the shit, bitching all the way. I bought gasoline for the first time in over a year yesterday (had to rent a car for work). I don't miss it one bit. I was just glad that I'll get reimbursed for it. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3227 Registered: 02-2005 |
I agree. Do some comparative analysis and fact-checking...our government does much to artificially lower the price of gasoline. This is because the electorate demands it, since driving is such an integral part of daily life for most Americans, and cars are such a marker of "middle class" status. People want the previous status quo to be maintained, but with upward pressure on the market winning out and pushing prices higher, Americans will have to change eventually. There will be tons of resistance and upheaval-- there already is. 2007-2015 could be as revolutionary as the late 1960s, except it will be the American v. himself, as he tries to overcome his lust for petroleum. The dream of mcmansions on the prairie and large, powerful cars will slowly fade. Cities will continue to rebound. Demand for transit will grow. 12-lane highways will fade into disuse. Middle-aged, poorly located suburbs will become blighted. Current lifesytles will not be sustainable. If the increase in gasoline prices does turn out to be slower than expected, you can attribute to the effect of hybrids and less usage of cars by the responsible Americans among us. Since we are in a global market, though, I anticipate any lifestyle changes a few ambitious Americans make will be outweighed by the growth of oil consumption in places like China. Oh well. One more reason for frustrated, ignorant Americans to hate globalization. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2291 Registered: 07-2004 |
Danindc, so you are saying that you walk to everything or catch the subway or bus? That definitely saves on gas and car insurance. Do tell? | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 717 Registered: 01-2006 |
No, requiring better emissions standards and requiring improvements in gas mileage is doing something. Allowing prices to inflate and doing nothing to alleviate our concerns is just not the way things are supposed to work. See, in school I was taught that the government is supposed to work to the benefit of all Americans. It looks to me like there is only a select few that is benefiting from these gas prices. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 136 Registered: 02-2004 |
Mackinaw, well said--interesting insight, I am not sure of whether it is good or bad but it seems we are defiantly heading into your painted picture. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3229 Registered: 02-2005 |
Dstar, I was taught that creating the most reasonably free market would benefit the most people, in America and everywhere else. Don't like the prices? don't buy. We all have choices. That's what a market is. The government should get medicine and food to people who can't afford it, and enable helpless people such as the handicapped to live productive lives. The gov. should make sure that Americans have access to things they NEED (i.e. food and medicine). Keeping prices reasonable for things like penicilin or milk make sense; we all need those things to live. Gasoline is not a prerequisite to life or prosperity for individual Americans. We should be expected to all act on our own, however we see fit, until prices adjust to an equilibrium, whether that equilibrium be $2 or $8 a gallon. As I see it, the government is too involved in the fuel market. No taxes. No subsidies. Just get out. (Message edited by mackinaw on July 11, 2007) | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 718 Registered: 01-2006 |
I agree with almost everything you said, Mackinaw. You mention various things that people in our society need. Well, gasoline is one thing that we need. At this point in time gas is vital to many people in our society. If they cannot get to work, how can they perform jobs that pump our economy? What about the farmers and truckers that are on the verge of bankruptcy because of high gas prices? If they go under there is no food for us. I'm not trying to pick an argument here, but I cant stand when people say "if you don't like it stop using it". There are millions of people across the country calling for gas prices to be better regulated...sure would be nice if their voices were heard. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1070 Registered: 10-2003 |
It's hard to do a great job of regulating something that you depend on a horribly crooked and yes I'll say it EVIL cartel to supply you with. | ||
Gotdetroit Member Username: Gotdetroit Post Number: 78 Registered: 12-2005 |
Mackinaw, fair argument...except you're not taking into consideration the cost increase to businesses. Higher gas prices have a ripple effect, and not just in your recreational take on gasoline. Businesses also now have a higher expense in gas. One they have to pass on to the consumer. So, it's not merely a choice of whether I want to drive or not. It also factors into the cost of the products I buy - regardless of my personal driving choices. I drive my car maybe once a week, but I'm getting pinched in other areas because of higher gas prices. We all are. A few pennies of increase in all our products because of gas adds up rather quickly – meaning people who do drive (have to drive due to their transportation situation) are getting pinched twice. It’s just the price of gas is the more noticeable of the two. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2848 Registered: 10-2003 |
I see Mackinaw has been reading Jim Kunstler lately. :-) quote: Yes, that's exactly right. I have no car insurance. Most of the time, I take the subway or the bus--my employer gives me $65 in transit fare each month, which is written off on the company's taxes as a fringe benefit. I have another $20/mo. withheld pre-tax. That's enough to get me where I need to go. (Note: The transit fares are by virtue of a federal law, so ask your employer if they participate! Federal employees are required to be offered this benefit. OR, if your employer gives you a free parking spot, see if they'll give you transit fare instead.) Other than that, I have a bike. Or I can always catch a cab. I'll confess that sometimes, I catch a ride with friends when there is a party/social event in the suburbs. But it definitely saves a LOT of money when you don't have to keep filling a car with gas. I drove yesterday to/from a meeting, and I was damn glad that I don't have to do it every day. I don't know how people survive with their wits intact. | ||
Mtm Member Username: Mtm Post Number: 228 Registered: 06-2006 |
Something I haven't seen mentioned here is the OBSCENE profits the oil companies are making. Yes, I realize that a lot of investors push for greater profits but I don't think that it's right for oil companies to make BILLIONS of profits while some families struggle to handle higher fuel prices in addition to the overall increase on the entire market caused by higher fuel prices. I think that Congress was considering an "excess profit" tax or penalty but, of course, right now there's no way that such legislation would pass against OIL COMPANIES. | ||
Gotdetroit Member Username: Gotdetroit Post Number: 79 Registered: 12-2005 |
Danindc: On that note, I lived in SF for two years. Didn't own a car for 2 years. No car payment, no insurance, no gas. $35 a month for a FastPass. It was beautiful. It's funny ALL the things you can do with that extra money when you're not spending it to feed a hunk of metal. Sorry. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1135 Registered: 02-2006 |
I live the same way. $75 a month pre-tax transit benefit gets me everywhere I need to go (train that stops 1 block from my apartment runs until 1:00am Sun-Thur and until 2:30am Fri-Sat) and using 24-hour routes and/or buses, my transportation is taken care of 24/7/365 for $75 a month. Now, that said, I do still own a car, mostly because I still leave the city now and then, it's paid off, and the insurance is like $500 a year. I also have a motorcycle, which I use more often to get around the city. But if I needed to (or moved to a denser neighborhood and had to pay for parking, cuz I don't currently) I could sell them and be just fine. It's so much better. I don't understand why people insist that driving is better. It's nice to be able to just get up and go, sure. But for commuting, public transit beats all because you get your time back. Instead of wasting 1-2 hours of your day in traffic, cursing, getting stressed--now you spend 1-2 hours a day relaxing, reading a book or newspaper, thinking about your day, prioritizing, working on your laptop, etc. Taking public transit gives me 2 daily hours of my life back, and is faster than driving to boot. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3230 Registered: 02-2005 |
Gotdetroit, Some businesses will be hurt, no doubt, some critically in fact, and this will have an unfortunate trickle down in terms of a moderate/major stock market bust. It might sound like corporate welfare (and it is, although I normally hate the idea of it), but in order to allow for a smoother transition to the next generation of new non-petroleum based transportation, the government might want to subsidize fuel for trucking and airline companies, so that business transactions and transportation of products do not see skyrocketing costs. Even so, manufacturers should be expected to look into more efficient modes of transport like rail whenever possible. They have choices, too. Lots of choices. Even small businesses. Yes a lot of small businesses that require work vans/delivery vans will be hurt by increasing gasoline prices, but they can always increase the price of their product, or the cost of delivery. If they want to maintain low costs for the consumer, they could invest in hybrid vans now, or at least trade old, inefficient vehicles for new ones. Now when it comes to the individual American, I don't buy the argument that we deserve government aid because we all *need* gas. First of all, if you're a homeowner or on the track to homeownership, you have a house with value and equity. If you live in a suburb or any neighborhood that may be adversely impacted by high fuel costs, do yourself a favor and sell now. You'll maximize your profits and do yourself a long-run favor by moving to a less car-dependant spot. You could do any number of things...you have tons of choices. You could move as close as possible to where you work, whether that be downtown or another suburb. You could move to be near a bus or rail line. You could take your money and get a rental instead. And you really don't need to be a homeowner to have these options; anyone with a job has options. So, with all of these options in mind, all of these changes a person could make in their lifestyle, how can you say we *need* cars and gasoline? Cars don't drive the American economy, workers and their talents do. That won't change with high gas prices. There are other ways to get to work. Cut your commute in half. Move to within walking distance. Look into transit options. I sound like a broken record now. The point is, its not the end of the world for anyone, and the government should not be expected to help you maintain what you think is a comfortable lifestyle, especially when there are wars to fight and a safety net, for people who really need help, to maintain. Yeah, Dan, it's true. For everyone else: http://www.kunstler.com/ (Message edited by mackinaw on July 11, 2007) | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1136 Registered: 02-2006 |
Mtm, would you support a tax on yourself because you made $100k a year, while your neighbors only made $45? Clearly, your salary is excessive, when compared to your neighbors. I abhor the oil companies, but we can't be punishing them for being good at what they do. Now, if we can ever prove that they are price-fixing, etc, that's a completely different issue. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 228 Registered: 04-2006 |
Ray, what are you calling "regular" gas? I just got back from a trip out west, and noticed that in most western states, including Nevada, 85 octane is sold as regular instead of 87. I have no idea why this is, since I can't imagine what you would use 85 octane gas for, but if you're comparing the price of 85 in Nevada with 87 in Michigan that could be part of the reason it's so much less. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2292 Registered: 07-2004 |
Thanks for the info, Danindc. Now, I'm watching the news when Robbie Timmons says, "When we come back we'll tell you the reason why gas prices are going up this time." That statement points to the lunacy of these gas increases. From what I heard two days ago, some oil execs or their family members were being held for ransom in Nigeria and this is the reason for the latest increase in gas prices. Sounds farfetched and I may not have the exact facts straight, but I did hear this from somewhere. I didn't imagine it. At any rate, when did stuff happening in Nigeria, Africa become a factor regarding U.S oil consumption? Next they'll be telling us that because an asteroid will cut across the moon next month, the shadow in the night sky will spook ocean whales causing unusual waves to slow down oil production from oil platforms in the oceans. BTW, the news report stated that because Michigan is not near oil refineries, it costs Michigan more because of the transportation costs. So what happened to the story about Nigeria? Yeah, right. Let's tell the people anything. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1137 Registered: 02-2006 |
Bearinabox, pretty sure that has to do with altitude, as the only place I've ever seen that was in Denver. Regular is 85 because less knock resistance is needed in the higher altitude, or so I suspect. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1636 Registered: 01-2005 |
"Ray, what are you calling "regular" gas? I just got back from a trip out west, and noticed that in most western states, including Nevada, 85 octane is sold as regular instead of 87" Don't pay much attention to octane ratings, Bear. As long as it doesn't make my I-4 engine knock, it's fine with me. And I've never had a problem. | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 128 Registered: 03-2007 |
87 octane is "regular" here in north central Arizona...we're paying 2.89 for it. At this elevation (5,100 ft.) we don't have to worry about the question of knock on our self-regulating Infiniti Q45. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2595 Registered: 12-2005 |
Bearinabox, good question. I've noticed different octane minimums across the country too. Apparently it has to do with altitude preventing engine knocking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O ctane_rating#Regional_variatio ns. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2554 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote:Rebel attacks on oil production facilities in the Nigerian delta have cut their production by 20%. Nigeria produces 2.5 million barrels of oil daily. They're the #12 producer in the world. Since global oil supply is so tight now, any disruption (or threat of one) in the supply causes a price shock. You don't get this? | ||
Gotdetroit Member Username: Gotdetroit Post Number: 80 Registered: 12-2005 |
The #12 oil producer in the world minus 1/2 million barrels a day in disruption = major price shock? Yeah, I for one don't get how that translates into gas prices soaring $0.30. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 137 Registered: 02-2004 |
So Detroit doesn't refine oil but Arizona and Nevada do? What about Marathon, I drove by yesterday and it looked like they were operating to me. What is the reason? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3232 Registered: 02-2005 |
Yeah and I believe a new refinery will be built down that way. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2555 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote:The violence and kidnappings present a risk to the remaining production. Given that demand for oil is relatively inelastic in the short-to-medium term and that supply is already maxed out, a small decrease in production will result in a significantly higher market-clearing price. Econ, baby... | ||
Civilprotectionunit4346 Member Username: Civilprotectionunit4346 Post Number: 176 Registered: 06-2007 |
People need to carpool more, and stop driving there land yacht suv's. Most people who own SUV's live in Suburban settings and drive these hunkering behemoth vehicles have no need or use for a SUV such as a suburban, tahoe, expedtion, commander, escalade. Im gonna here some heat from this...LOL. Probably here responses like...I need to drive my 1.5kids to and from there play dates...LOL..or I need it for grocery shopping. Why do you think gas prices got so high, one thing is we one of the biggest users of gas, and look at what kind of vehicles we drive. Most offroading these idiots will see is when they run up the curb when they trying to make a left or right turn at a light when they are in a rush. | ||
Vintagesoul Member Username: Vintagesoul Post Number: 22 Registered: 06-2007 |
In my line of work, I deal mostly with international customers. One of them came to visit me last month from KSA. My jaw about hit the floor when he told me they pay about 85 cents per gallon. I knew it had to be lower there, but I had no idea it was *that* low. Although, he did follow that up with "we pay more for water than we do for gas. Water is very difficult to get there." He was originally from here, and moved there to open a franchise of the company I work for. Scary to think they have all the gas they could ever want, but water is so difficult to get. I know they're in a desert, but I would think they would make that a priority and maybe use the gas to get more water? I hate paying as much as I do for gas, but I don't think in all reality we have it that bad. I'm glad I can go to my tap and get water any time I please for $26 a month. I wouldn't trade that for cheaper gas any day of the week. | ||
Pythonmaster Member Username: Pythonmaster Post Number: 72 Registered: 12-2006 |
Blaming our crooked Government for our oil habit is like blaming the Columbians for our coke habit. Let's have a Dream Cruise and celebrate. | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 860 Registered: 12-2003 |
Well stated P-master. |
