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Wschnitt
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Username: Wschnitt

Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone have any follow up information on the topic of the population dispute?

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070628/M ETRO/706280409
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 5819
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It usually takes many weeks/months to formulate a challenge. We're not going to be hearing anything about this anytime soon.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 476
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The shut down of the SMART 285 bus line to shift money to expand I-94 in Detroit will mean fewer people in Detroit and Livonia.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 3451
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Expand 94 in Detroit? Where? When? Details?
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5013
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He's talking about that old shelved $1 billion dollar idea to expand I-94 between Conner and I-96 to either 4 or 5 lanes. It's dead (except in his head).
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 17
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It takes a lot of single people buying lofts to equal a two-parent family with a couple of kids moving to the burbs. No doubt Detroit's had a good run with new housing. But that doesn't mean that they are holding ground on the population loss. This is true in other Detroit-area communities as well. Detroit's just the most visible example. As SEMCOG has noted, SE Michigan isn't growing population-wise, we're just moving farther apart and farther out.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 478
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 6:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's dead except on semcog.org and approved by the FTA with a matching state grants from the exact same money that used to pay for the SMART 285 bus route.

It's just not talked about anymore at meetings. Transit advocates are now focused on raising illegal taxes to replaced the lost funding.
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Emu_steve
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Username: Emu_steve

Post Number: 428
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 6:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"It takes a lot of single people buying lofts to equal a two-parent family with a couple of kids moving to the burbs. No doubt Detroit's had a good run with new housing. But that doesn't mean that they are holding ground on the population loss."

That raises a bigger question:

What should Detroit (and other cities and states) be most concerned: Population or number of households?

In a sense, isn't 150K households with 1 child or two (highly valued today) better then 150K households with 3 or 4 children (highly valued 40 years ago)? [because of the cost of schooling them]

Likewise, as has been stated on this board many times, many households in downtown Detroit will be either one person or two (especially DINK - double income, no kids). DINKs are great to have for a city. They contribute much in taxes and require fewer city services.

Maybe # of households should be looked at more closely then total aggregate population.
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Meaghansdad
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Username: Meaghansdad

Post Number: 18
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 8:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kwame better quit stirring the pot before he gets news he isnt very thrilled with.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 267
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 8:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman,

You are crazy. There is no movement on that shelved I-94 project and there won't be for any period of time. The projected cost, $1 Billion is more than several year's worth of MDOT's ENTIRE Capacity Improvement budget for the state. Also, that $1 Billion number is several years old. Due to higher fuel costs and the drastic rise in materials costs because of Hurricane Katrina, That number might be as much as $1.3 or $1.4 billion today.

The money from one little bus route isn't going to pay for that project nor will it, because MDOT has other needs it wishes to address before doing an I-94 job.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1277
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why would they even need to widen I-94? It's wide enough...
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 3455
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That section of 94 rarely backs up anyway, plus studies show that adding lanes often leads to no positive effect in terms of alleviating traffic (because it creates more usage). Now, this doesn't mean that stupid-ass MDOT won't want to do it, but in a state strapped for cash, and along a section of road where there is no room to grow without eminent domain, it won't happen.

Regarding population in general, at least we can now say that a population inflow exists in Detroit. For a while it was almost all outflow. Now it's a decent outflow countered by a not-negligable inflow.
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 19
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Regarding population in general, at least we can now say that a population inflow exists in Detroit. For a while it was almost all outflow. Now it's a decent outflow countered by a not-negligable inflow."

Do we know that? It might be true but there's probably a fair number of people upgrading or downsizing versus people coming into the city. Yea, yea, I know of the hipsters moving downtown, etc. but in the big picture, which is the real flow of people?
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 268
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The reason MDOT is considering expanding I-94 has little to do with capacity. In fact, the actual expansion would not be large at all. The REAL issue with I-94 in that stretch is that it is an out of date design. That stretch of I-94 was built a long time ago and has never really been updated to match the modern design standards that have been developed since it's original design and construction. EVERYTHING needs to be updated from the slope of the embankments on the side to the width of the lanes to the replacement of the pump stations. It is a MASSIVE project.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 480
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MDOT paid DDOT for removing cars from the freeways to rebuild the Lodge. My proposal is for MDOT to permanently pay both SMART and DDOT for frequent bus service to the downtown, the county seats and the airport to fairly distribute transportation funds for everyone.

Livonia city council members nearly constantly complained to SMART that Dearborn pays the same tax and gets more then twice the bus service. But multiple tax mechanisms can overcome this problem. This was no problem for me because I took the buses to Dearborn but not everyone in Livonia did this. My plans worked and came off the shelf in June 2003 but MDOT rejects multiple operating sources to evenly distribute transit funding at this time without local funds.

I plan on helping SMART come back to Livonia if possible and they do plan on doing this. So, DY'ers instead of clogging the freeways, why not use SMART and DDOT to help them out?
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Scs100
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Username: Scs100

Post Number: 1325
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

plan on helping SMART come back to Livonia if possible and they do plan on doing this. So, DY'ers instead of clogging the freeways, why not use SMART and DDOT to help them out?



I do, and did last Wednesday.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 492
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

el jimbo, from what i've heard... it used to be that the TOTAL gain/loss of city population in detroit was about 50k/yr... maybe 70k would move out, 20k would move in per year... HOWEVER in recent years.. . not only has the number of people LEAVING been reduced slightly... but the number of people moving in has INCREASED... so no it might be something like this: 50k/yr leave... 38k/yr move in... Net +/- = ---12k/yr in detroit population...

these figures are ROUGH, but based on speculation by the urban planning department.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 269
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman,

From what funding is MDOT supposed to come up with this money?

Also, MDOT doesn't have to pay DDOT ANYTHING to rebuild the Lodge. MDOT owns the freeway. If anything, MDOT may work with DDOT to coordinate congestion mitigation strategies to try to alleviate as much of the traffic issues as possible. However, that figure would be very small.
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Urbanize
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Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 2052
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"So, DY'ers instead of clogging the freeways, why not use SMART and DDOT to help them out?"

BEcause of the way they maintain and run their Buses and Routes.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 604
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just to mention something about population. I often wonder if the pop figures are wrong also.

I remember when Detroit still had a million people, and it seems weird that the pop would decline so much in just a couple years, to go below the 900,000 mark.

So I am glad they are looking into this
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 486
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Urbanize, It was not very easy to get SMART to come to Livonia and increase rider ship. And then the late DDOT buses caused many problems on Plymouth road. Thus the petition drive on website to let me do the job myself to help fill up the SMART and DDOT buses. Someone has to do this to get industry support or we will never move forward to improve our public transit system.

So, please support me and I will go on television and challenge Kwame and our suburban leaders, if you want. See DETROIT LINKS
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 131
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I remember when Detroit still had a million people, and it seems weird that the pop would decline so much in just a couple years, to go below the 900,000 mark.


It doesn't seem weird when you travel through the neighborhoods.
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Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize

Post Number: 2062
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The counts are incorrect, because when these people go around asking people to add themselves to the pop., many of them don't, and don't forget many of the homeless or Ill people either that probably weren't accounted for.

On the other hand, many of the people who are apart of the population count don't even live or do business anywhere in Detroit or Michigan, all they do is rent/own the home and pay taxes on it because they claim it's "benefiting the city".

So the count is not correct, but deciding whether or not that number should go higher or lower will be the hard part.

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