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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 9734
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 12:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OH, so I'm closer to the truth than I guessed.


Mankind's race to decode the DNA molecule IS exactly our twisted attempt to BE God...


...I always see the Tower of Babel whenever I look up at that beautifully graceful pile of boxes.

Thanks for the illumination!


Oh yeah, 'pots, that sculpture in the front lobby of the RenCen is called 'Borealis'. From what I saw of the Aurora Borealis in recent years, the artist did a fantastic job recreating the effect in glass...that structure is amazing in it's complexity, apparently one side shattered during construction...although that is a very closely held secret.
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Mikeg
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Post Number: 1032
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lobsterpots, I think it would be unlikely that your grandmother's Uncle Carl would have been the brother of Charles Foy, since Carl and Charles are basically the same name and their mother wouldn't have used such similar names for her sons. Regardless, I checked the 1930 US Census and there were no Carl/Karl Foy names in Detroit and the Charles Foy names in Detroit were all only about 8 years older than your grandmother.

In the 1930 US Census, I found a Carl E. Moon living with his wife Helen in the Venice Apartments at 3650 Lincoln, Ave. in Detroit. He was 32 years old, employed as a newspaper pressman and he (along with both parents) was born in Indiana. The only other Carl Moon is a 30 year old electrical salesman who lived at home with his parents and twin brother on Helen Street in Detroit, all who were born in Indiana. There were four men by the name of Charles Moon living in Detroit of the correct age, one each having been born in Michigan, New York, Missouri and Iowa. However, I have no way of tying any of them them to your grandmother's family.

Curiously, when I tried looking for Genevieve's parents and siblings in the 1910, 1920 and 1930 US Census, I came up empty, even when looking at all of the United States. With so many names to work with, I should have been able to find Charles Foy, Elizabeth and at least one of their children in one of those Census databases. Hmmm....
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Realitycheck
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Post Number: 446
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 8:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of Boston (as I seem to recall we were a while back),
x
on Sunday also spread good words about the D:

Detroit still has its vibe
Working hard to stay in the big leagues, a city proud of its industry, sport, music and art

And catch this:
quote:

If you need guidance, Detroiters are proud to describe the event choices for any given weekend.

Enjoy it all, with a photo from Baker's, here.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 9738
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 8:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reality,

Interesting. Thought we had rules against outing people, though!

heh


Lobsterpots, you rule. Even if you're NOT this writer from the Globe.
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Lowell
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Post Number: 4030
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lobsterpots, thanks for the followup descriptions of your visit. I second Kathleen in congratulating you for opening your daughter's mind to the thoughtful realities that exist.

I don't know if she is of the age where it would matter yet, but there is a great 'underground' cultural scene here too, underground meaning that one needs to know where they are, places like the Bo house, Zeitgeist, Charles Johansson, Bert's, 555 and other art / music venues.
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Lobsterpots
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Username: Lobsterpots

Post Number: 35
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MkeG:
I made a mistake: My grandmother Gen's father was Michael Foy.
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Lobsterpots
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Username: Lobsterpots

Post Number: 36
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and her mothers name was Noon, not Moon.
Im going to explore an old hope chest and steamer trunk packed with photos documents and such that belonged to my grandmother and see if I can find some clues. Thanks for your help.
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Mikeg
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Post Number: 1033
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess I better get my eyes checked - I used to be able to tell the difference between N and M!
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Mackinaw
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Post Number: 3420
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Lobster, do you write for the Boston Globe?

http://www.boston.com/travel/a rticles/2007/07/29/detroit_sti ll_has_its_vibe/

Sunday's Globe had a nice story about visiting Detroit.
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Sharmaal
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Post Number: 1190
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jazzin' on Jeff was a few weeks ago. 'Pots said he just got back.
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Trainman
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Post Number: 467
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 4:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gannon, when people are nice, you talk mean.

Why?
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Average_arizona_drummer
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Username: Average_arizona_drummer

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Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My pappy used to give me a few bucks and stick me on a bus to Detroit, (we lived at 8 mile and Grand River.)He told me to stay off skid row, (think that was Cass Avenue close to the old Musicians Guild.)I always had enough money for three Coneys’ at the Lafayette, and pappy encouraged me to sneak into the Gaiety Theatre. I spend sometime at the old Drum Shop too. I spent time at Wurlitzer, and a sheet music place on Elizabeth. It now reminds me of the magic wand store from the First Harry Potter. I finally came home with a pound bag of chocolate covered peanuts; I'm not sure where they came from, come to think of it.

I've always felt a little cheated from what happened to Detroit in later years. On my first trip to Minneapolis in the 70's I was freaked because the stores on the ground floor had glass in them rather than plywood.

The only thing thay changed in later life was a short visit to a whore house. It was in an old hotel. I wished I could remember the nasme of it.Eventually I lost my virginity there, but the first two times I lost it in a wash cloth she was washing my Johnson with. I finall lost it the third time, (t took me all of thirty seconds,) enough of my experiences, anyone have others?
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Matt_the_deuce
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An instant classic.
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Lobsterpots
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Post Number: 37
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, sorry to say, I don't write for the Globe, but I'm always on Boston.com. I read the article, after you posted it here, after we returned from our trip. I think that Detroit is a city that Bostonians would somewhat identify with and embrace. The Globe published the article probably because they felt Detroit is a place Bostonians would like to visit, and they're right on. Detroit is right up our alley. We love culture, music, history, architecture.
Conversely, I think that if you love Detroit, chances are you'll fall in love with Boston too. The best thing I like about Boston is there are people there from all over the world. I recently went to my eye doctor for a checkup on Commonwealth Ave, which is a teaching eye clinic, and the intern was here as a student from Spain, she told me all about how she loved coming here to learn and felt very much at home. Boston proper is a small, compact, cosmopolitan...yet not necessarily an exclusive or elite city. The residents are very rich, and also very poor. People come and go from all over the world. We are are a majority of liberals, often ultra liberals.
There's always a cause, always a fundraiser, always a charity benefit, always a wrong to make right. As a whole, it seems as though we are always seeking justice and equality. Our ideas are often considered lofty if not radical by outsiders. We love education, and its a huge business here. There seems to be a school college or university for just about anything you want to learn right here in Massachusetts. In fact our Governor, Deval Patrick (D), is pushing for free community college tuition for all Mass. high school grads.
In the Boston metro area, we always are in a rush, kind of like NYC. and thats not always such a good thing as sometimes people mistake us for being rude. We drink more cups of coffee than any other place in the country according to a recent study. There's at least one coffee shop on every block, and although I'm guessing, I'll bet our per person coffee budget is over $50 bucks a week.
I did notice that things are a little more laid back in Detroit, not as hectic.
One major drawback about Boston is that the infrastructure is is very old, and the streets that began as cow paths in the 1600's and are not very wide, not very automobile friendly. There are lots of winding one way streets, sudden lane drops and merges especially in the Tip O'Neil tunnel, and it is very confusing...even for locals. Traffic congestion is a daily grind, and you have to leave real early in the morning to beat the traffic jams if your headed into town..even if you live less than ten miles outside the city limits. Another drawback about Boston is that it is soooo expensive to live in town. A modest one bedroom studio can be over $450K...with no parking place, although you can sometimes buy your own deeded parking place for $50K. I drove in town late Sunday afternoon to drop friends off at Fenway park to see the Police / Sting concert. and I saw some parking lot signs on Boylston St. for $60.00 (sometimes $90.)for Fenway Park event parking. We have good subways so they took the red line home as I wasn't about to be stuck in traffic for hours when all those people let out.
What I like about Detroit is the superwide boulevards like Woodward, Grand, etc. not much highway traffic either, lots of lanes, and plenty of parking for everyone. It actually made driving fun for a change. Sometimes I'm driving through Boston, and I want to stop for a coffee or something, but there's absolutely no parking. "Resident Only sticker required"..."bus stop"...fire hydrant...no parking... no parking street cleaning...people double parked. It's not a "pop in over here for a sandwich" get in your car and "pull in over there to go to the post office" town unlike Detroit. This can really can be a hassle as the army of meter maids scour the blocks looking for out-of-time meter violations. One year I got over $100.00 in parking tickets. But its still a great city.
I think that many will agree with me, that there is a trend for people who want to migrate back to cities.
Many don't want to spend as much time dealing with lengthy commutes and the expense that goes along with it, fuel costs , repairs, and all that goes with maintaining cars that become high milage in only a few years are costly. Also, suburban life, for some, can be boring. I find suburban living boring and mundane, not as bad where I am now, but where I grew up 50 miles south of Boston, was not exactly the entertainment and fun capital of the world. It seems there's always the old ladies peering out the corners of their windows to monitor everyones comings and goings, and they want to be knee deep into everyones business. Although, I suppose we'll be like that someday when we retire, but cities are more anonymous, lots of hustle and bustle. Living only ten miles from town, I am finding myself in town more and more, at least twice a week.
Many of the younger generation that grew up in the suburbs seems have the desire to embrace city living. I predict in a number of years many from the 'burbs will call cities across the US their homes, in other words, US cities are HIP. Detroit by far has the built-in capacity to handle a huge population.
If the city leaders can formulate a solid plan to attract more employers to Detroit I think it stands a very good chance of increasing in population and in wealth.
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Waz
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just thought of another link between Detroit (Michigan) and Boston (Massachusetts), Lobsterpots: ex-governors George Romney and Mitt Romney. Probably doesn't have anything to do with anything, but I thought I'd throw it in there.

PS Mitt Romney went to Cranbrook, which you may have passed by off of Woodward on your trek to Bloomfield Hills.
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Mikeg
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

During the second half of the 19th Century, most of the venture capital used to build Detroit and create jobs here came from Boston bankers and financiers.
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Lobsterpots
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Username: Lobsterpots

Post Number: 38
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, we drove by Cranbrook road, there was an old stone school with a waterwheel it looked like it had been an old factory by a waterway at one time. That was a nice area. Lots of homes for sale there too from what we saw.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 3434
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did you see any of the Grosse Pointes? ...a much nicer upscale area, nestled between Detroit and the water...
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Lobsterpots
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Username: Lobsterpots

Post Number: 39
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately I missed seeing that area. We missed our flight and we ended up driving home, I saw the exit sign off the highway. Bloomfield Hills. For some reason, I read about Bloomfield Hills over the years being like Beverly Hills, CA. so that stuck out in my mind as a place to visit. I found it to be upscale. I heard of Grosse Point, next time.
My favorite area or all was Boston-Edison. I just love those homes. I liked it because it is in the city.
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Lobsterpots
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Username: Lobsterpots

Post Number: 40
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitrunaway:
Thanks for sharing.

The question that still have, is why did so many people leave? (aside from the obvious in '67).
I was going through an old 1957 World Book Encyclopedia and read about Detroit. So figure, the information was compiled in 1956 prior to publication and distribution in '57. It clearly made mention that Detroit was having problems and turmoil with police. It didn't elaborate any further and left the reader to somewhat "read between the lines" that really meant "stay away and be warned".
Were there a noticable people leaving prior to '67?
If so, why? and any one particular distinguishable groups of residents?
And my last question is if things were going so horribly wrong, why didn't the community demand that changes be made by the local government to correct and address the problems?
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Mackinaw
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Post Number: 3435
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Boston Edison is remarkable. Poised to excel in a decade or so. I'm wondering if you saw Indian Village (halfway between downtown and Grosse Pointes). It sounds like you didn't do the East Jefferson corridor. I think Indian Village might leave even more of an impression on you that Boston-Edison, because it is a fairly vibrant, very intact neighborhood with basically no blight.

Bloomfield ain't no Beverly Hills.

GP leaves much more of an impression. With the lake, multiple neighborhoods with large expanses of old mansions, and closeness to the city, it stands above other upscale suburbs. More interestingly, it is not completely upscale, as it includes rows of middle-class and affordable housing away from the lake.

LP, you really need to blame the strong, combined effect of post-war suburbanizing policies (loans for new housing only for vets), Detroit's love of cars and mobility, and the lagging overcrowding (yes, overcrowding) in some existing Detroit neighborhoods to get your answer. There were also plenty of incidents that manifested race tensions prior to the 60s.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 9750
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 7:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman,

Huh?!

quote:

Gannon, when people are nice, you talk mean.

Why?




Why do you hear 'mean' in my trite comments?


Are you SO sensitive to punned critique that you cannot laugh at yourself?!


Cheers, pal, lighten up some.






Lobsterpots,

Hate to say it, but missing your flight and having to DRIVE home from the Motor City is, um, poetic.

I hope you had a Detroit-badged hooptie to pilot...how long was that drive?!


Cheers
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Gannon
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Post Number: 9751
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 8:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Plus, NOW I understand more of why Bostonians are always talking about 'pahking the cahr'...never knew it was such a big deal!!


(always thought it was just people teasing them on how y'all talk!)
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Lobsterpots
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Username: Lobsterpots

Post Number: 41
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I set the alarm clock for 5 AM, and I messed it up I think the volume was down all the way. We woke up at 7AM, and our flight was scheduled to leave at 7:44. So that didn't happen. The airline tics that we had cost us $80.00 for both of us for the return trip. Spirit Air has these really good deals. It was no big deal, I didnt even bother to go back to the airport to mess with reschedule. They were clearly non-refundable. I went back to AVIS and all we had to do was change out rented Ford Escape for a Saturn ION. We got on the road just before 9AM after we had breakfast, and we were home at 10 PM. We went home via Canada, and stopped at Niagara Falls for a couple of hours. My daughter had never been there, so it was another fun time. Niagara Falls was packed with tourists, an it was a beautiful day. I was on vacation, I wasn't going to let anything interefere with our vacation. Looking back, I'm glad we missed out flight.
You know, with still around a million people in the Detroit metro area, thats still major. I am surprised that more of the buildings downtown are not occupied, and there are so many storefronts available for rent. Boston city limits only has a population of 600,000 residents, however greater Boston (including the burbs) has 4.4 million. From a business owners standpoint, Detroit with a demo of 1m, is a very very strong number.
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Gannon
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According to one forumer in the know, the common 'wisdom' is that it is too expensive for building owners to rent out those street-level storefront spaces.

I don't understand it either, but he is pretty strongly convinced that is the case...for what the square footage rental returns would bring the building owners.
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Mackinaw
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Post Number: 3437
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lobster, the Detroit metro area is about 3.5 million, over 4 million if you include Ann Arbor and right up to Flint. The city of Detroit itself is roughly 900k.

Come back in 5 years, and the downtown storefronts will be occupied, and you'll see lights on in now-abandoned structures like the Broderick and Whitney Buildings (there on Grand Circus Park), the Book-Cadillac, and maybe the Stott and UA buildings.

It is a shame that more storefronts right on Woodward in downtown are filled yet, but I think they're overpriced.

How long did it take to get to New York at the border in Niagara? I was there less than a month ago and it's a frustrating process.
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Lobsterpots
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Post Number: 42
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We were stopped in traffic at the edge of the Rainbow Bridge for about 20 minutes. all the lanes were open. after that it was smooth sailing all the way home except the exit before our home traffic was backed up for 40 minutes at 10 PM at night. Yet another illustration of the horrors of metro Boston driving. That was frustrating, we were tired and just wanted to go home.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 3438
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh that's good. My wait at that border was about 45 minutes.
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Lobsterpots
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Post Number: 43
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Concerning the vacant street level storefronts, you would think something better than nothing. A half a loaf is better than none way of thinking. It's the whole principle behind retailers having sales on their merchandise. Buy merchandise for a dollar and put it out on the floor for two, but if at some point you have a surplus of unsold two dollar items, mark 'em down to a buck fifty. Retail 101 I suppose. I guess it doesnt work that way for commercial rents?
My landlord is a very savvy and succesful commercial real estate developer. They own strip malls and commercial buildings all over. When I rented a space that had been vacant for years and years. I asked her about that if there was some sort of a tax advantage to having a vacant building instead of tennants. She told me that others had asked her the same question, and she said that makes absolutely no sense, and there is no advantage to owning a building, paying property taxes and maintainence, and having it sit vacant. Could it be the landlords of the Detroit buildings are just holding out for the highest yielding lease? and they are so big and have so many assets that they simply cannot be bothered if the tennant is not willing to pay the price per square foot they are asking? Or perhaps the building needs so many capital improvements prior to occupancy that renting it out for less would incur such short term losses?
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Rbdetsport
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LobsterPots, you are totally right about the "person who loves Detroit would love Boston." A few years ago I was in Cape Cod visiting, as I do about every couple of years(Hoping to go next summer). My family and I went to Boston for a day trip. We drove around town a bit, trying to find a way to get off of the freeway to Fenway, which is clearly visible from the freeway. We found a place to park and took the Green Line to Boston Common. Went to Cheers and the main retail area. And yes, did see all of the starbucks and other coffee shops. We took the Green Line back to the ****** Square station and took in a Red Sox game at Fenway. Which by the way, is a must see baseball stadium for baseball lovers. I decided that this is my 2nd favorite city over NYC and Chicago. Gotta love Boston!

On the way back to the Cape, I looked back to the glowing skyline and thought about how amazing this city is and how far Detroit has to go to regain its World Class city status. Everything from the downtown 7-11 to the urban Barnes and Noble and to the brownstones of Beacon Hill and beyond, and obviosly the huge transit system, made me jealous that a city right at my doorstep didnt have this. But remembering the book that I had seen in Barnes & Noble about the Boston decline and revitalization gave me hope and optimism that Detroit would soon be back to its previous status.

Since then, i have already seen the revitalization take place in Detroit and I know that huge progress is being made on a new transit system. This optimism makes me KNOW that the many abandoned buildings of today will be occupied and successful in a few years. God bless the continued success of Boston and the revitalization of Detroit!
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Lobsterpots
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Post Number: 44
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rbdetsport:
I'm delighted to hear you had a positive experience in Boston & Cape Cod. This spring, they finally completed the removal of the Sagamore Bridge rotary at the entrance of the bridge. This was a source for 20 mile weekend traffic jams to get on Cape Cod. (For those who haven't been down the Cape, the Sagamore Bridge is a narrow bridge that goes over the Cape Cod Canal. The Cape Cod Canal is the unofficial boundary line which marks the beginning of Cape Cod. Traffic doesn't seem quite as bad, but they said that a wider, more modern bridge is still needed.
What I keep thinking about, is what Boston looked like in the 70's and 80's. It was so run down and blighted in sections (of course, Back Bay area sill was and is today home to old Boston money, The Boston Brahmins. I'm not a Brahamin, wasn't born into the club, just descendant of peasants, common folk.
Investors with vision that were able see past the blight in these areas namely the South End (not to be confused with South Boston which has also been on the upswing) bet that the area would eventually improve, purchased those buildings (the magnificent brownstones in the south end around Massachusetts Ave., Washington, Columbus Ave, Tremont, etc. which many were boarded up and had vagrants living in them. It was a very unsafe, crime and drug ridden area. Those who got in on the ground floor and started to fix them and hold on to them through the gentrification process are worth a fortune. I see the same opportunity in Detroit. The Boston area at one time had a huge manufacturing base. Today, as with most US metro areas, not nearly as much.
If Detroit is able to diversify itself into more hospitals, teaching facilities, bio-tech, technology based jobs, then I think the area as a whole would flourish. The landscape of New England from Maine all the way to Southern Connecticut is dotted with old mills some as old as the American Industrial Revolution itself. The ones that still stand today, built as solidly as the Ruins of Egypt, have been converted to condos, apartments buildings, offices, and other functional commercial uses.
What happened in Boston with the revitalization was that everyday people, with a vision and not much cash, bought one home, fixed it up, asked for better police protection, created neighborhood watch organizations, and told their family and friends of these magnificent historical homes which they purchased for a song. This encouraged others to buy and do the same. It became a grass roots movement. I don't think it could have been accomplished by waiting for City Hall to present the plan. They took action, got together, and did it themselves. If they held onto them, there certainly are set for life today.
I'd be willing to bet if this happened in Detroit, many people would return. It's too much of a gem.
With local leadership and the initiative of its citizens, Detroit has all of the characteristics and makings of the same success story Boston has. Though it's never perfect, there is no fairy tale ending, we don't live happily ever after and all get along, there are still today areas in Boston that I am reluctant to even drive though. In fact, this has been one of the worst years for gang-related homicides.
With all that said, Detroit CAN be a player and a WIN, even with the influx of imported cars, and Chinese cars that are on the horizon.

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