  Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1712 Registered: 06-2006 |
things are looking up... http://www.metromodemedia.com/ devnews/AAcommline0028.aspx | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3405 Registered: 02-2005 |
Well, I'd really like to see A2-Detroit come first, but this is a great sign for a few reasons: 1) It shows that there is support in the metro areas, even among exurban residents, for alternate means of transportation. Most of this has been spurred on by the general inconvenience and cost of driving. 2) It shows that Ann Arbor is a real jobs destination, and there are as many or more A2 workers who live east of A2 in Detroit and especially its western burbs as there are up in Brighton/Howell. This means that Detroit-AA commuter rail with stops in Ypsi, Wayne, Metro Airport, and Dearborn could move as many people into and out of that city as the impending line which appears to have tons of support. 3) It shows that MDOT is being just a little bit more flexible, and we should expect the same in the Detroit metro area. I will say, though, the the state's $ pledge is not very large, and UM's prediction on how many employees will use it is a tad high. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 567 Registered: 12-2006 |
With regard to the state's pledge of support, Mackinaw, the question is what are the actual costs involved? Nobody is building any new track; it appears to me all that we need are a couple trains and to build some modest stations. No news about the AA-D line in many moons, though, curiously. (At least I'm curious.) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3406 Registered: 02-2005 |
No news indeed. There has been some general buzz about it in A2. I'm finding that most of the people in the city government here in A2 want to see it... now we just need to see them put forth some of their abundant funds to make sure it happens. There's a wikipedia page on the A2-D line which I just noticed...it says early 2008 at the soonest. I guess you're right about the funding. I'm wondering just where the Ann Arbor station would be. There are a lot of possibilities. The tracks go right through downtown A2, crossing over Main street north and south of downtown, and paralleling Main to the west of downtown. I figure UM would need to institute a cross-town shuttle service or get AATA to add short bus routes to move employees from Main St. to campus (it's a 10-15 minute walk at least). http://local.live.com/default. aspx?v=2&cp=42.283357~-83.7497 66&style=r&lvl=16&tilt=-90&dir =0&alt=-1000&scene=3778751&enc Type=1 Right at the terminis of Ann St. would be a great spot. Ann leads directly across downtown to the medical center buildings starting around Glen St. It also leads directly to Washtenaw County HQ, within walking distance around Main and 5th. In the back of my mind, I'm still having a mighty tough time believing that so many people live all the way in Howell and work in Ann Arbor. Howell is extremely low density, too, so even a centrally located station will require most people to drive to the station in the first place. On the other hand, the rail line takes a fairly direct route into A2 that roads (even without traffic) cannot provide. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 568 Registered: 12-2006 |
The Ann Arbor station for the AA-D line will be the existing Amtrak Ann Arbor station, at least in the early days. Can you post a link to the Wiki page? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2913 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: That's pretty much the gist of commuter rail. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2220 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm surprised MetroMode didn't do their fact checking before posting this article. This project will not be happening any time soon because the hoped for federal grant did not come through. They're still working on things, but there won't be the big rush to get it done like there was before. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 569 Registered: 12-2006 |
Indeed. I sometimes have the pleasure to visit Toronto, and how I usually do it is drive to Oakville and take the GO train in. Oakville has an enormous parking lot at the train station, and it is quite full on weekdays. And Oakville is not a low-density place. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 570 Registered: 12-2006 |
Bvos, which federal grant did not come through? | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2221 Registered: 10-2003 |
It's the one mentioned in paragraph 5: "The project hinges on a $1-million federal grant which could come through as soon as August." | ||
Lmr Member Username: Lmr Post Number: 76 Registered: 03-2007 |
I would say build it, I don't see how this can be anything but good. Here in Minneapolis-St. Paul they have a light rail line that is already a couple years old. The Hiawatha line goes from Downtown Minneapolis out to Bloomington (Mall of America). There is a stop right at the Metrodome (where the Twins play). The ridership has been much above what was predicted and more light rail is scheduled to be built. Home values near the light rail stops went up. It also stops at the MSP airport so you can fly into the airport, take light rail to Mall of America and back to the airport. Another use is that there are a couple of parking structures in downtown Minneapolis where twin cities residents can park their car long-term, then take light rail out to the MSP airport while they take a trip, basically using the light rail to facilitate off-airport parking. I think this definitely could work for Detroit. Ann Arbor to Howell is an ok first step but you also want to go after the convention and visitor business, and tie it to the airport. Have a stop at Metro airport and several stops downtown. A stop outside Comerica Park I think would be very worthwhile. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1713 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Well, I'd really like to see A2-Detroit come first, but this is a great sign for a few reasons" I don't really see why it matters which one comes first...one doesn't have much to do with the other...and this one seems to make more sense since much of the AA workforce lives in that area to the north... | ||
Transitrider Member Username: Transitrider Post Number: 19 Registered: 01-2007 |
The federal grant that they did not get was for the original Whitmore Lake to Ann Arbor proposal, which was meant to be a demonstration US-23 construction mitigation attempt for this summer. When MDOT was reluctant and the federal grant did not come through, they decided to aim bigger and focus on long-term commuter rail, which was easier for the stakeholder communities to get behind. The owner of the Great Lakes Central Railroad is also interested in providing seasonal trains to the Traverse area. The service also has a name, "WALLY," the WAshtenaw LIvinston Line. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1101 Registered: 11-2003 |
As discussed in newspaper articles-- The AA-Howell commuter train's Ann Arbor station, if it ever gets built, will be on the northern side of town. That's because track ownership changes at a point somewhere between the Barton Dr. and Traver Rd. crossings. North of the ownership split, the state of Michigan owns it and Great Lakes Central Ry. has freight rights. GLC has been very cooperative with the commuter train idea. South of the ownership split, Ann Arbor Acquisition Corp. (d/b/a "Ann Arbor Railroad") owns it and operates freight service. It doesn't want anything to do with the commuter train. For convenience's sake, Great Lakes Central & AA interchange cars at a siding several miles north of the ownership split. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 962 Registered: 06-2004 |
This is fabulous! What's amazing is how dirt cheap the whole thing is. Why is that mass transit is multibillion dollar deal. They're budget looks like about $5. God bless these people. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5877 Registered: 10-2003 |
We're talking about one commuter rail line using existing trains and lines, here, Ray. (Message edited by lmichigan on July 31, 2007) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3410 Registered: 02-2005 |
"Much" of the workforce, TJ? Like one of my posts asked, what is "much?" That story says UM estimates 1200 employees. I think that might be generous, but if it is that many, that pales in comparison to the over 30,000 employed by the U of M in total. My guess would be that the majority live in the C of AA, and then the largest subgroup live in Dexter (not serviced by this line, and located on a thoroughfare leading into A2), Whitmore (far enough to justify taking a train over surface streets? I'm not sure), and metro Detroit (clearly not serviced by this proposal). I've known plenty of professors from Detroit. My point: this is a great sign. Great that they're even considering it. But, it's not as important as AA-Detroit, won't have as much of an impact, and won't move as many people. It will help a couple thousand, at the very best, avoid a complicated, traffic-filled commute. That's great, but doesn't really help Detroit, or the majority of people who commute to Ann Arbor. Professorscott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S EMCOG_Commuter_Rail btw, a new spur would need to be built in order to get the rail that comes in from Howell to the current Amtrak station. Trust me, I know the rails there like the back of my hand, and look at the aerial photos and map for confirmation: http://local.live.com/default. aspx?v=2&cp=42.290866~-83.7456 46&style=r&lvl=17&tilt=-90&dir =0&alt=-1000&encType=1 The rail from Howell comes into downtown from the E/NE. The Norfolk Southern tracks that Amtrak uses come down from the north and curve east, along the river. The Amtrak station is at Depot and Broadway. If what Burnsie relates is what turns out to be the case, I think that is bad news. If it cuts off at Barton Dr. you are stranded on North Campus. Great for people that work there, but still 1-2 miles from downtown and Main Campus. You would need really reliable, literally non-stop buses to downtown to make people feel okay about being dropped off up there. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3411 Registered: 02-2005 |
Lmich, there are no existing passenger trains going between Howell and A2. This is NOT the Amtrak line, which goes along the I-94 corridor. In that case your statement is correct. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5878 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mack, I was saying their is an existing rail line (passenger or not) running between the cities, otherwise this wouldn't be possible this quickly. I did not say their is existing passenger service between the two, rather the infrastructure is in place. Ray was remarking on how cheap this is, and it's because they don't have to build infrastructure that this is not as costly as he may have thought. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1104 Registered: 11-2003 |
Granted, this Crain's excerpt is from way back on 8/2/06, but there hasn't been anything in the media to indicate that things have since changed: "...Ann Arbor Railroad hasn't responded to the city about Hieftje's idea...If Ann Arbor Rail doesn't agree to the commuter rail idea, it means a station would have to be built along Plymouth Road on the city's north side, Hieftje said. "Ann Arbor Railroad President E.O. "Jim" Erickson and other executives did not return four phone calls during the past two weeks." | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3412 Registered: 02-2005 |
Thanks for posting that excerpt. I can see the city working hard to overcome that, providing incentives if neccesary. Lmich, I gotcha. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2917 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Au contraire! Let's take those 1200 UM employees expected to ride the train. That's equivalent to the hourly capacity of one lane of U.S. 23. While this doesn't help Detroit, per se, it certainly helps more than those who ride the train. And should this line be successful, will "prove" that commuter rail would be viable in even more densely populated areas. You gotta start somewhere, and eliminating the excuses that have plagued Southeastern Michigan for decades is a pretty good beginning. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1834 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'm basically with Mackinaw and others on this... Overall, it's good news, and if it happens I think it will encourage rather than discourage the formation of other transit lines in the region. Still, as someone who lived in Ann Arbor for 17 years, I'd say the AA-Detroit line is about 100 times more important, and the feds have appropriately appropriated 100 times as much funding for the AA-Detroit line. If the AA-Airport-Detroit/Michigan line is the 2nd most essential transit corridor for the region (after Woodward), this US23 corridor is what, 18th?  But it would be great for it to happen, and it certainly seems like a good idea in terms of the infrastructure that is already available. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1723 Registered: 06-2006 |
Machinaw: And MY point is that one does not impede the other...we're talking about rails that serve different purposes being pushed by different groups of people using different sources of funding... | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1249 Registered: 04-2006 |
The rush hour traffic on US-23 north of Ann Arbor can be a killer... I got caught in Friday evening traffic jams all the time on my way up to State from Ann Arbor. That coupled with the lack of daytime parking in Ann Arbor would make this a welcome project. But I agree, that Ann Arbor to Detroit line is a bit more important, if only to connect both areas to the airport by public transportation. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3423 Registered: 02-2005 |
Thejesus, I agree, they do not impede each other. Both could be put into motion at the same time. One requires more infrastructure build-up and more funding. As Dougw reiterates, one is also more important to the region. It's only because it's more important that I want to see it ASAP (plus I go between A2 and Detroit all the time on Amtrak and hate the inconvenient times, delays, and $11-$18 fares). I'm not suggesting that the A2-Livingston line will prohibit A2-D from happening. And it's still a GOOD THING! |
