  Tponetom Member Username: Tponetom Post Number: 77 Registered: 06-2007 |
The Sixties I realize that some of my remarks sound like I am speaking for the entire city. I am not. My experiences, my opinions and my conclusions are my own, and I do not mean to speak for anyone else. I said before, in another post, that I lived through the golden years of Detroit. I also lived through the transitional period of that ‘gold’ changing to pyrite. Having experienced those glorious ‘highs’ of the early years and then be faced with the trudging, downward spiral into near oblivion, my emotions are nothing, if not, ambivalent. The decade of the sixties was the most tumultuous that I can recall. Vitriolic might be a better word to use. The first three years would carry enough tragedy and confusion and ineptitude to satisfy the pessimism of anyone. The most heinous act was the assassination of President Kennedy. Most everyone can tell you where they were and what they were doing, the instant, they heard the news. The most despairing experience, on that day, that I can remember is this. A ‘roving’ Detroit TV reporter was covering his downtown beat asking anyone and everyone what they felt about the killing. He asked a young man what his thoughts were. The man replied, “In this day and age it is so hard to believe that if you do not like someone, you can just shoot him.” That may have been a prophecy of sorts. A few years later, Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King and Malcolm X would also die ignominiously. That was only the start of the Sixties. We were gearing up for another war of sorts. I was a born and bred incumbent Detroiter but the National scene took my focus off of Detroit. Calamities all over the country were taking a center stage. In no particular order, Dallas had a starring role, Los Angeles, Cape Canaveral, Montgomery, New York, Washington, Newark and lesser localities got into the act. Detroit would project itself into the fray, later in the Decade. There were happy olios between acts. The Beatles invaded America. Woodstock helped hundreds of thousands to mellow out. The Tigers won the World Series. (Denny had a great season, but Mickey got the job done.) Shepherd, Glenn and Armstrong were simply ‘out of this world.’ The Anti Vietnam War protesters made their point but it would be many years later when it would be acknowledged. I know it changed my mind. In 1960, we bought a house on Evanston, near Harper and Connors. That would be our home base for the next five years. Much more on the Sixties, later, in a more personal vein. | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 95 Registered: 05-2006 |
Tponetom Did Woodstock help us mellow out, or did it start the loss of all morals that are the norm today? | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 770 Registered: 11-2006 |
Yeah, Caldo. I often wonder what happened to all the college students and hippies that were going to change the world and bring about an enlightened new world once they got out in it. Imo, most are just middle aged working folk now who mostly moan and groan about the way the world is going. In the '60's these same kids tried to convince everyone that they were better and knew more than anyone older than 30. They didn't turn out any better than the generation before them, the one they fought. The 'establishment'. | ||
Paintnprint Member Username: Paintnprint Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2007 |
KiO, Well, it would really be hard to change the world in a generation. Still, the children of the hippies are incredible creatures, and well-prepared for the 21st Century. Parents who don't rely on "the Establishment" for every answer. And when I write about "them," I mean everything up to 1967. "You better get in line Missy, and act your roll!" The hippies were the first of a century to say, "I won't be led blindly." Sounds healthy to me. It's easy to point a finger at the hippies, but many of my generation were inspired by them, even if not one of them. At 53 I'm still writing about aspirations for the better, via lessons learned by that movement. Unless you need a scapegoat for why the world isn't running the way you'd like it to. Stern fingers point to Woodstock? It's far more complex than that. Regards, Koko | ||
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone Post Number: 117 Registered: 03-2007 |
I know I'm gonna get blasted for saying this...but here goes... IMHO the hippies (I was one of them) did change some things for the better as you said, Paint. But two things that came out of that culture were not so good. First was the movement to stop strict discipline of the children and just "let them be". I believe that this has led to a decline in the moral thread of young people. I believed it then too...I am just as guilty...but now that I am older and a grandparent, I see that younger folks today have no respect for their elders for the most part. Part of this may have to do with the move away from organized religion as well. I think that's where the older generations got their moral grounding. And lastly, while I am glad that women have the ability to achieve whatever dream they have now, in a way I wish that we had paid more attention to raising our children. I know that I was one of the first generation to choose career over motherhood because I never learned how to balance the two, and my child suffered for it. I think women today are a little better at it. Employers have learned the value of "flex time" and "family leave" time. Good day care centers have helped. But I feel deep in my heart that some of the problems we have with our youth are due to the lack of parental supervision on a regular basis. Our world today and its economic struggles make it necessary for two incomes in most families. And our children suffer the consequences. But overall, the 60's in the Detroit area were fun. Plum Street was a great hang out for us hippie types. I graduated high school then...I met my first husband and married him in the 60's. Oh to be 18 again!! Peace! | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 92 Registered: 08-2006 |
Kath says, "Yeah, Caldo. I often wonder what happened to all the college students and hippies that were going to change the world and bring about an enlightened new world once they got out in it." For one thing, they designed and built the personal computers that allow you to participate in this forum. I think that is pretty amazing. | ||
Missnmich Member Username: Missnmich Post Number: 601 Registered: 11-2004 |
I see that younger folks today have no respect for their elders for the most part. The ancient Greeks were the first to record this thought. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 485 Registered: 04-2006 |
the three major subcultures of the 20th century are the Beats (50s), the Hippies (60s), and the Punks (70s). They are all intrinsically linked. I'm just saying this because someone above said that the hippies were the first large group of people to not be led blindly... However, the beats came first... and some of the beats, i'm thinking of Allen Ginsberg especially, became role models and part of the hippie scene in the Haight. | ||
Tponetom Member Username: Tponetom Post Number: 78 Registered: 06-2007 |
EXCELLENT!!! I got the diverse opinions I was hoping for. "Mellow Out?" What does that phrase mean? I don't have a clue. Does it mean that all of those people were regaling in their own fantasy world? Or does it mean that they were just trying to avoid reality? Or could it be nothing more than a "walk in the park." Caldogven: "us mellow out?" Your question is well taken. I was referring to those who attended the shindig. I would really like to hear more comments on your question. On the question of morality, where should we start? With the White House and work our way down? Or should we start with Reading, Jeffries, Van Antwerp, Miriani, and others and work our way up. "Never the twain shall meet." Author unknown. | ||
Themax Member Username: Themax Post Number: 817 Registered: 09-2005 |
"Yeah, Caldo. I often wonder what happened to all the college students and hippies that were going to change the world and bring about an enlightened new world once they got out in it." A lot of them were drafted. | ||
Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 435 Registered: 11-2006 |
The 'hippies' stood up to the rigid conformity of my grandparents generation. Except me as I am, an individual, don't simply judge me because my hair is long. I see men in their fifties and older, and it reminds me of when I was a kid in the seventies adults in that age group tended not to like long hair on men: long hair was a serious issue. Now we have a variety of colors and styles, piercings etc. | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 97 Registered: 05-2006 |
Tponetom It has nothing to do with politics. It starts in the home. Themax What doe's being drafted have to do with morals,except maybe standing up and defending your country. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1335 Registered: 12-2003 |
Caldogven, Themax is pointing out that a lot of young men (mostly) who could have changed the world, are dead. Hundreds of thousands of males of that generation perished in Vietnam. For what? And don't tell me I'm disrespecting them for saying the war was pointless. It was. It has nothing to do with their gallantry and service. Their tragic deaths stain our country's history, thanks to McNamara and others who led us into that mess. | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 98 Registered: 05-2006 |
Pffft You are bring politics into this again. Even though thousands lost their lives in WW1 and WW2 and Korea the morals and standards were very high. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1336 Registered: 12-2003 |
We were attacked in WW2, at Pearl Harbor. There was no appeasing the Japanese at that point, we were defending our country. Hitler and the Japanese had to be stopped. Contrast that with -- just why were we in Vietnam? To keep Communism from spreading from North to South Vietnam? That war proved the fallacy of waging war over politics. | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 99 Registered: 05-2006 |
Tponetom See what you started. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2825 Registered: 12-2005 |
Anyone who expects hippies to have made their world better for them has completely misinterpreted the message. It was/is/will forever continue to be a peaceful rejection of authority rather than an attempt to change the world by use of authority. You have to change the world yourself. No hippy's going to do it for you. But if The Man tries to block your efforts to improve your world, hippies have a lot of effective tricks up their sleeves to frustrate that bogus bugger.  A | ||
Tponetom Member Username: Tponetom Post Number: 79 Registered: 06-2007 |
Caldogven: Re: 'Morals start at home' Where I come from, that is a given. Re: Starting something? Yes, I think it is great. Old farts like me bask in the wonderment of learning something new every day. I will jump over to the "non-Detroit" issues tomorrow and see if I can start something there. | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 103 Registered: 05-2006 |
Tponetom I'm an old fart too. Isn't it great to read all the diversified responses to a particular question or statement. Especially from someone who has never experienced or only has word of mouth information. | ||
Margaret Member Username: Margaret Post Number: 31 Registered: 06-2007 |
just for the record, having read most of this: I would NOT trade my growing up years in that "hippy" era for anything! also came of age during the feminist '70s. how ridiculous to blame hippies and/or feminists for moral decay. give me a break! Onward and upward to those who question authority! woooohooooooo far out mannnnnn... | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9796 Registered: 12-2003 |
Welcome to the forum, Margaret. To you haters, It is so easy to malign some group when you remain distant from them and misunderstand because their approach to life is so oblique and/or tangential to yours. Some of us don't have a concept of time and/or money, and actually love our fellow man...neighbor or enemy. I think Jesus was a hippy...that's why they don't actually study all the words he is reported to have said, even as recorded in the inerrant and God-inspired Christian bible...it flies in the face of what corporate capitalism needs their sheople to feel, and do...and be. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9798 Registered: 12-2003 |
The guinea-children of experimental parents that turn bad will more than be balanced out by the children of anti-establishment parents who turned out OK. I've met some brilliant ones that give me hope, those that've learned to at least LOOK the part, infiltrate the beast, and will take it apart from the inside. The revolution isn't over yet, folks. A whole bunch of us want it to be peaceful as a walk in the park...we'll kill 'em with our kindness. They won't know what hit 'em. They don't know our weapons, they have no defense against them. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2836 Registered: 12-2005 |
I vaguely remember a chapter from, I believe, Divine Right's Trip : A Novel of the Counterculture where a technique is suggested that would result in an officer attempting to arrest peaceful protesters after his uniform had disintegrated. Imagine a nude officer running around trying to be serious without even a place to pin his badge.  Disclaimer for the cognitively challenged: the cited book is a work of fiction, not reality. Karl, bite me. (Message edited by Jimaz on August 03, 2007) | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 93 Registered: 08-2006 |
During the 60's we were being told that 1 + 1 = 3 by those in authority, particularly in regards to Viet Nam. Many in our generation said, "Wait, that's not right!" That was a radical departure from the norm and was not accepted very well by those in power. You can now see how the 1 + 1 = 3 gang has returned to power when looking at the reasons touted for the Iraq War. You can also see that some are still resentful and saying that those who knew the answer to 1 + 1 "thought they were smarter than everyone else." I think they were (and are) smarter. History has shown that the answer to 1 + 1 is actually 2 like the hippies said and not 3 like those in authority at the time said. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1337 Registered: 12-2003 |
Peachlaser, Peachlaser -- yes I well remember watching President Johnson speak about Vietnam on TV in much the same terms Bush talks about Iraq. We would scoff and jeer at what he was saying -- that's why it's so hard to believe 50% of the country would vote for this guy's shtick. We who remember Vietnam surely could see this coming ... | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 105 Registered: 05-2006 |
The double-speak has been going on forever. But we still can pretty much say and do whatever we care to. |
