 
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 601
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:35 pm: |    |
What is your guys view on Coleman Young. Was he good for Detroit, or bad?
Did Detroit fall harder because of him?
Your views. |
Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize
Post Number: 1992
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:40 pm: | |
Well you already know that the answers will be bad except from some A-A who felt he did a good job. |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 1579
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:45 pm: | |
Fasten your belts |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 595
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:49 pm: | |
Well,I can say the man had a colorful way with words and was a very photogenic dude.
But this is where my critism of him begins and ends.
the good rev |
Johnnny5
Member
Username: Johnnny5
Post Number: 549
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:51 pm: | |
If Detroit was a rental home C.Young would have lost his deposit. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 585
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:55 pm: | |
One interesting aspect of Coleman Young, to those of us who had met him, was that he played different roles in different circumstances. If he was speaking to Bill Bonds, he was the street-toughened foulmouthed race-baiter that suburbanites loved to hate; if he was speaking to a group of businessmen about investing in City projects he was another person entirely. For instance, in that latter case, he spoke flawless English with only a hint of his famous vocal inflections.
As to the question, I think the Coleman Young who was Mayor from 1973-1981 did a lot of good things to correct long-standing problems, particularly with how African Americans were treated by the City generally and by police in particular. However, even during those first terms, he ignored other problems that needed his attention. The Coleman Young of 1981-1989 was more or less resting on his laurels and did not accomplish much.
During that whole time, the Young and Patterson Show was a great and recurring source of entertainment, though both Detroit and Oakland County would be better off today had those two had a more professional and civil relationship. I recall Patterson saying, at one point in the mid eighties, "my life wouldn't be bereft of anything if I never cross Eight Mile Road again". Not the kind of thing that builds up a region.
By the way, The Little Red Book of quotations of Chairman Young is a must-have for any Detroiter who was around in those days.
Sorry for the measured and reasonable response - I know that's not what we're all expecting here. I trust some of my fellow frequent bloggers will correct that situation presently  |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 3883
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:57 pm: | |
war hero, stood up to the McCarthy Circus, good man, maybe would have been ok for one or two terms, but ultimately a terrible mayor whose last decade was a disaster for the city. He appointed people based on loyalty, not talent, so in the end, many of the city departments were run by the corrupt and the incompetent, but they were HIS corrupts and incompetents. |
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 602
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:58 pm: | |
Howcome he was voted in for such a long time, if nothing he did was good for Detroit? |
Harpernottingham
Member
Username: Harpernottingham
Post Number: 240
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:01 pm: | |
Good!
No, no, wait ... bad! |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1084
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:03 pm: | |
I met Coleman with a few business associates at the Manoogian Mansion in 1990. He greeted us like an African potentate, clad in a silk dressing-gown, smoking a Cuban cigar (Montecristo #2 Torpedo). He coughed frequently. He was very cordial and had some decent Single Malt Scotch. I creepy-crawled around the mansion but was unable to locate any Krugerrands. The food was great, he treated me very nice. |
Rb336
Member
Username: Rb336
Post Number: 989
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:03 pm: | |
Yes, Coleman young did a lot of good as an activist. where he fell apart was as mayor |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 482
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:20 pm: | |
obviously coleman young did MANY MANY MANY horrible things... but I am going to focus on the positives here, because he is being attacked ALOT.
First of all, Detroit was in DIRE need of black leadership in the 1970s. It just HAD to happen. (i'm 7th generation WHITE detroiter) especially in the turbulent 70s, it just was not fair to the city majority to have white men running everything.
Second, he dismantled the racist police force.
Third, to his death, he was the greatest champion of the city of Detroit, if often misguided. I recall that, near the end of his life he admitted that he had failed, though.
Fourth, it is important to keep in mind that many horrible trends that happened to detroit were NOT his fault... Sure he may have cost the D some white residents, but you can't blame ALL of detroit's problems on him. He inherited a city that was dying rapidly, and did the best he could.
Fifth, history is ALWAYS 20/20. Look at things people once thought would be good for Detroit, Freeways + the jeff. projects top the list. Detroit and other urban areas dealt with problems that never before confronted major cities in the past. How to deal with major suburbs and white flight was a NEW problem... By being militantly anti-suburb, he got it wrong - very wrong. At least he tried something... That's more than I can say for many politicians today.
(to quickly touch upon his BAD moves, I will say that building the rencen like a fortress, pushing city airport so hard, rejecting the suburbs, and what I will MOST never forgive him for was the poletown plant... - i'm no fan, just want to balance this thread out a little.) |
Meaghansdad
Member
Username: Meaghansdad
Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:20 pm: | |
I think of his biggest accomplishments was to inspire younger amateur political scientists to take up the cause of advocating for oneself, and the community at large. Often times, younger black professionals, students, and advocates tend to act meek, allowing ourselves to be pacified by rosy cheeked, warm hearted conservatives, because thats who we encounter, as a whole (higher education for blacks is a ENTIRELY separate issue).
I can remember seeing him on the news, the network bleeping every other word. While not totally condoning that aspect of his personality, I can respect him for having the balls to speak what he felt. |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 642
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:20 pm: | |
Why do you keep bringing up the God Damn Krugerrands |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 3884
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:26 pm: | |
CAY was just one factor in the perfect storm that ripped apart our city...
One has to remember who he was running against in 72 or was it 73?...John F. Nichols, the Chief of the DPD, who had no political experience whatsoever. And of course, the nearly all white police force was seen as part of the problem by many Detroiters. |
Cinderpath
Member
Username: Cinderpath
Post Number: 134
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:36 pm: | |
I think the answer to that can be summarized by the condition of the city when he left office: It looked like a war zone, and the till was bled dry. People are still picking up pieces he left behind. I was in Bosnia last summer, and was amazed how they have and are rebuilding. Detroit 40 years after the riot still does not look great, racially wounds have not healed, and worse yet it became more divided between the city and suburbs and the city has lost population. And there was lot of corruption, some proven, lots not. All in all his record I would say would be about like Bush: a failure.
In terms of him being a savvy politician, and being able to manipulate issues and voters: he was genius. |
Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner
Post Number: 375
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:44 pm: | |
He did some good things but if you look at his career in Detroit overall, It was not good. Yes he further divided race relations in the region. He let the white people know we were not welcome in Detroit.... so... we left. JMO! (still dont feel real welcome either). |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 15
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 1:53 pm: | |
As someone who grew up in the suburbs but had parents who grew up in Detroit and weren't afraid to take us back to the city, I can say that there were/are plenty of people in the hinterlands who were/are just as willing to play racial politics on this side of 8 Mile as CAY. I don't hear them using the N-word as much these days but they'll leave no doubts about who they think is at fault for everything that is wrong with Detroit. Being a white kid from the 'burbs, I've never had a problem going to Detroit or spending time there and while people don't run out to shake my hand (and why would they?), I've never felt unwelcome. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1260
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:15 pm: | |
I ditto Andylinn.
He was no saint, but sure as hell not the sinner that people made him out to be.
I'll add that CAY was almost prophetic in predicting what would happen to metro Detroit without a transit system...
...but he stayed in office about two terms too long. |
Whithorn11446
Member
Username: Whithorn11446
Post Number: 130
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:44 pm: | |
The city was in trouble before Coleman was elected in November '73. Just the fact he could even get elected meant the city was doomed already. The irony is that Coleman won that election because more white people voted for him than blacks voted for Nichols.
Basically, Coleman kept shoveling dirt on the coffin. Those many white Detroiters who decided to stick it out after the riots and remained through the mid-1970's were reminded on a daily basis with Coleman that it was time to get the hell out.
I will say he was very good for certain real estate brokers, moving companies, and rewarding his cronies. He also was very street smart and never managed to get nailed by the federal government for the all the stuff he was involved in. |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4516
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:48 pm: | |
Allegedly involved in unless you have indisputable proof... |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 589
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:52 pm: | |
Well he certainly was involved in "stuff"; everyone is. Whit didn't accuse him of any specific thing.
If you accuse me of robbing a bank last Thursday, you have to say I allegedly did it. If you accuse me of having done bad stuff during a twenty-year period, skip "alleged"; I'm guilty and so is everybody else. |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4518
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:59 pm: | |
OK well with that then I can see the point... |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 1580
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 3:15 pm: | |
We have indisputable proof that Coleman was the best kind of crook there is: a lawyer. He insulated himself from The Krugerrands (note to Kemp: the Krugerrands were a BIG deal because they were issued by the government of South Africa, which at that moment was in the full practice of apartheid, insuring the majority of native blacks that they were unequal)
The welfare cheese scandal
The Magnum oil scandal
and others by placing a patsy in the line of fire, many of whom took the heat and ended up incurring the wrath of the law for their participation. A good crook knows the law completely, where to be and where not to be in the equation.
Mayor Young's administration(s) had either exceptionally competent, bright people or well connected deadwood and nothing in-between.
Yes, he corrected the awful bias of the police department (as he found it), but under his guidance it turned into an ineffective, look-the-other-way department that more than anything caused the flight to continue unabated. |
Meaghansdad
Member
Username: Meaghansdad
Post Number: 11
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 3:25 pm: | |
Flight was going to continue unabated because the people (White and Black) had the means to do so. Might some of his practices assisted, probably, but neither was he, nor his administration(s) solely responsible. Southfield was continuing to avail itself to Blacks. Mt Clemens hadn't totally dissipated. Redford, as prejudiced as it was, was starting to see some integration. Westland and Romulus was becoming more and more attractive to plant (B&W)workers because of accessibility. |
Meaghansdad
Member
Username: Meaghansdad
Post Number: 12
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 3:27 pm: | |
Sounds like Danny copy and pasted from that very accurate Wikipedia |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6308
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 3:41 pm: | |
I better put some list of Coleman Young did in the 1970s
1 Telling crooks to hit 8 Mile Rd.
2. Trying to bring black investors but didn't work.
3. Tyring to avoid alleged investigations
4. Got rid of STRESS
5. He didn't oversee the growing murder rate of innocent Detroiters.
6. Appointed his first black Detroit Police Chief William Hart who later was resigned.
7. He was a hero to the black community and an enemy to the white suburbanites.
After he left as Detroit mayor. Its Downtown is a ghostown, more corruption from city leaders, White flight to the suburbs increased and so did black flight and it took Dennis Archer to rebuild Detroit back to its renaissance.
(Message edited by danny on August 02, 2007) |
Detroit313
Member
Username: Detroit313
Post Number: 419
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 3:58 pm: | |
CAY DIDN'T RUN THE CITY IN HIS LAST TERM!!!
This is when the city really-really started to decline.
He was aging.
Other (non-elected) individuals were making day to day decision, not the mayor.
Up until the late 80's early 90's Detroit was declining just like every rust-belt city, and CAY had basically no control over that.
He could've made better decision in terms of race relation, and instead of building walls, build bridges with the region.
As for the police department, he balanced it but made it more corrupt than before. I don't want to rip the entire department, but the DPD is a joke.
On a recent trip to Detroit, I didn't see a single squad car for 5 days. And that was when they created a speed trap on East Outer Drive.
NO COPS WALKING THE BEAT!
NO COPS WALKING THE STREETS, PARKS, NOT EVEN THE RIVERFRONT!
This isn't CAY's fault, but it is what he put in place 20 years before.
In my opinion, CAY was need for Detroit in one term, after that he was thee worst Mayor in Detroit history.
I know I'm missing a lot of positive aspects, but when you compare then to Archer's........
I only want to thank him for printing his name on my birth certificate! <313> |
Karl
Member
Username: Karl
Post Number: 9037
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 4:20 pm: | |
Miketoronto asks: "How come he was voted in for such a long time, if nothing he did was good for Detroit?"
As has been said, CAY wasn't all bad. However, "being voted in for such a long time" is a trait common amongst Democrats (Teddy Kennedy, Robt Byrd among others) who re-elect people with serious flaws that would be fatal politically for pro-life Republicans.
CAY was no different, and Dems turned a blind eye.
There has been much mention of STRESS, dismantled primarily because they did their job. Oops, the perps they caught/shot were AA, but never mind. Once STRESS was gone, Detroit flourished as the Murder Capital and in subsequent years has always been at the top of any list regarding crime and/or murder stats.
Meanwhile over all these years, the question has never been R or D, but rather which D(emocrat)
Hucksters like stylin & Oldred will defend the status quo, blaming things that happened 50+ years ago and NEVER taking personal responsibility for what evolves from the homes in Detroit or other problem cities/neighborhoods. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 16
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 4:35 pm: | |
"However, "being voted in for such a long time" is a trait common amongst Democrats (Teddy Kennedy, Robt Byrd among others) who re-elect people with serious flaws that would be fatal politically for pro-life Republicans."
Come on, there's plenty of Republican cheats and liars still in office long after having been exposed as such. The current crop of GOP presidential candidates and wanna-bes is proof that being a womanizer won't keep you from running for President. |