 
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 605
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 10:19 pm: |    |
Here is a question for you guys.
Do you feel that some of the blame for the decline in Detroit, should rest in the residents of 313, who have let their homes fall into decay and not getting involved in their community, etc?
I bring this up because I was thinking about what a cousin of mine said when she lived in an area of Philly that sadly started to go downhill. She watched her normal nice middle class neighbourhood totally fall into ruin full of crime and decay. She finally got out. But she often said a lot of the blame was in the residents who refused to keep their houses nice. She said just because you are a poor, does not mean you can't wash the windows or keep your front yard clean.
So your guys views on this?
There use to be a pride even for poor people to keep their homes nice, etc. Yet in many improverished inner city districts, from Buffalo, to Detroit, to Chicago, people just keep their homes like crap.
Should they be looked at as the problem also? |
Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1197
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 10:30 pm: | |
Absolutely. There are plenty of poor neighborhoods in the world that look just fine residentially on the outside, though their main commercial strips reveal the income level of the neighborhood. I see it here on a daily basis in Chicago. Despite the rep of the South Side, there are only a few areas (well, just one broad swath) that are totally decimated. The rest, while beaten down and a bit shabby, looks mostly fine. Same with some of the poorer North Side neighborhoods like Rogers Park, or Humboldt Park on the West Side. Much of the SW Side is low- to working-class, but is tidy.
Hell, there are a lot of areas in Detroit that look mostly fine, and a lot of the residents are just as poor as in other neighborhoods.
I think a lot of it comes down to the "broken windows" theory, in reverse. As conditions start to deteriorate, many lose the will to keep their own area clean. "Why bother?" And so on and so on. |
Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick
Post Number: 4767
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 10:40 pm: | |
A lot of the decline was simply out of their hands due to economic factors beyond their control. It takes money to maintain homes, schools, and infrastructure. In other words, it takes money to make money. |
Izzadore
Member
Username: Izzadore
Post Number: 58
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 10:44 pm: | |
Good point Focus.
I've always had a problem comparing Detroit's 'hoods' to Chicago's South side because so many people on the South side have jobs. Now, West side areas like 'K-town' and East Austin remind me more of Detroit. Those areas are in most cases more run-down than any place I've seen. These people - generally transplants from the many public housing establishments the CHA has torn down tend to take that same 'why-bother' attitude. |
Detroitrunaway
Member
Username: Detroitrunaway
Post Number: 67
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 10:50 pm: | |
My mother referenced this behavior/thought process as 'Renters Mentality'.
We bought our first house a year ago (I'm now living in Baltimore after spending 24 yrs in Detroit). It is a lot more work than I expected...you know...little things that add up. And there are times when we would pick a date for a minor project...then get a bit unenergetic...but managed to get back on track later. But we're determined...no matter the lack of funds to at least pick up the trash collecting around our corner lot, trim the bushes, shovel the snow and cut the grass. All of those chores cost no more than a few bucks (most for the mower gas) over a 1 1/2 year stretch.
I also like to add that Detroit business owners have equal responsibility. I mean...some of those small/innercity merchant facilities look like and operate like crap. I mean a real joke of good business. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 833
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 11:00 pm: | |
Do you feel that some of the blame for the decline in Detroit, should rest in the residents of 313, who have let their homes fall into decay and not getting involved in their community, etc?
Absolutely. But the reason why their homes have fallen into decay is usually money. |
Kevgoblu
Member
Username: Kevgoblu
Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 11:10 pm: | |
Good point Detroitrunaway. Renter's mentality definately exists. I was talking to the renter a few doors down this spring and he commented on how he had thought about planting flowers but then reconsidered, saying "What for, its not my house".
A lot of this problem is a result of the slumlords not wanting to invest $100 in their property to maintain a look consistent with the rest of the neighborhood. |
Mw2gs
Member
Username: Mw2gs
Post Number: 270
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 11:38 pm: | |
It would be interesting to see how many of these decayed homes are actually owned by the residents. On my block in HP 1 Jewish lady who lives in Farmington owns 5 run down decayed houses. She had 6 and sold 1 which was rehabbed and looks really nice. The family that owns it, lives there and keeps it in great shape too. Go Figure!!! |
Jenniferl
Member
Username: Jenniferl
Post Number: 384
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 11:42 pm: | |
I think it's worth mentioning that a lot of Detroit's homeowners are elderly. These folks might have kept up their house when they were younger and had more $$$, but now they just can't do so much anymore. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 840
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 11:43 pm: | |
That's what I was saying, Jennifer.
Take a drive through Boston-Edison and I think they'll see exactly what we're talking about.
A vast majority of the neighborhood is 50+. |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 493
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 11:59 pm: | |
part of the problem is, pardon my french, when you live in a pile of shit, you treat it like shit... this is NOT how i feel, I take care of my city, but i've walked with kids who, when I pick up some litter and put it in a rubbish bin, say "why you doin' that, it's just detroit" - or they'll ATTEMPT to throw something on the ground, until I criticize them... this is SUPER evident in the fact that EVERY day I honk at littering cars in deetroit.. and it's not just souped up old caddys... it's suvs and minivans from the burbs too... |
Ray
Member
Username: Ray
Post Number: 968
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 12:22 am: | |
You cannot possibly blame the residents of Detroit for any of the city's problems, including its inept political establishment.
They are victims of an evil society that makes them re-elect the Detroit city council year after year, throw trash out of their cars as a normal means of disposing rubbish, drop out of school and tolerate having an inept and ineffective police force and school system. |
Meaghansdad
Member
Username: Meaghansdad
Post Number: 22
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 12:32 am: | |
Im a former resident of Detroit, and I LOVE Ray's post!! |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 8
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 1:46 am: | |
i blame all of the surburbanites who left when the going got tough |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6312
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 8:14 am: | |
For the blame for in some Detroit inner city ghettos. Its restrictive covenants, demarcation, racial steering, slumlords and low income folks who can't clean up after themselves. That could leave some Detroit ghettohoods into blighted hoods.
You all what happen in Brightmoor, Brush Park, Detroit's lower east and west side, Mack and Alter Rds. Gratiot and Houston/Whittier St, Miller and Van Dyke area, Van Dyke between Lynch and McNichols and much more. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1766
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 8:55 am: | |
Of course they take the blame...maybe not all of it, but even if you can't afford to fix the fallen down siding on your house, then get off your ass and clean up all the garbage that has collected all over your yard, side walk and street curb in front of your house, water you f-ing grass for once, and clean the sticks and leaves off your roof more than once a decade |
Pjazz
Member
Username: Pjazz
Post Number: 70
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 9:51 am: | |
Home ownership and maintenance of a house go hand and hand if a person is renting it is the owners responsibility to maintain that property. If the renter doesn't want to maitain the property then the owner should charge extra for maintenance.
If you look at a bad neighborhood in any city 90 percent of the time most of the homes are rented out. It's the owners responsibilty and the owner who is ticketed on unkept property. Of coarse most of the time that owner lives in the Burbs. |
Detroitrunaway
Member
Username: Detroitrunaway
Post Number: 68
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 9:52 am: | |
Ray -
I know we can't do everything. The city has a responsibility to care for city owned property. But that shouldn't stop a person from cleaning their own space. We live right at Gratiot between OuterDrive and 6 mile. Jane street was known by a lot of folks including white Roseville residents as the place to by drugs. But my mother made sure that we kept the place clean. She owned that house and did her part. When I invited one of my Royal Oak buddies to the house....first she reacted as oh my god. Your community looks like $hit. But once we reached our house....and walked in...she was shocked and complimented me and my mom on the beauty of our home. She said it was like stepping into a new world. I hate to admit....it was also this that caused our home to be broken into to...one too many times. After the last time...when someone actually had a Uhaul truck (we were gone for the weekend)...cleaned my mother out. large pieces of furniture and all.
She sold the house (with little profit) and finally moved after owning it for over 20yrs....to East English Villiage. She has since redecorated....and doesn't regret starting over.
P.S. thanx Kevgoblu |
Dave70
Member
Username: Dave70
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 11:08 am: | |
Hi folks,
First post here, but I've been reading the forum for a few weeks...
I do think the blame is largely the residents.
Yesterday I was in a nostalgic mood and decided to take a quick drive through my old neighborhood. I took the Cadieux exit off 94 and headed up merging into Morang, then took a side street to Moross and then headed north on Kelly rd.
I was shocked on how much the neighborhood is turning into ghetto. Really it is sad. That area was so nice and kept up it seemed when I left in the early 90s.
Now the stores along Morang are so run down and just look unsafe. I saw bullet proof glass in the coney island that used to be the Baskin & Robbins ice cream shop. Most of the shops are gone that a nice neighborhood has like appliance, hardware, florists, meat markets, bakeries, cleaners etc. Replaced by seedy check casing/cash advance, dollar stores, store front churches that look abandoned, etc.
The residential streets are looking worse too. Boarded up houses, neglected landscaping gone wild, litter...
I know the "white flight" really kicked in in the late 80s/early 90s. So the stable residents left and what happened??
I do remember a nice house that was sold close to mine and the people who moved in were SO ghetto. They completely trashed a beautiful home in a couple of years. Their friends would come over and throw trash out the car windows, honk the f'ing horn instead of knocking on the door and blast loud music at any time of day. I remember the police even showing up with warrants from time to time.
I think some the newer residents never learned to take care of their property, to take pride in a clean environment. And they brought the downtrodden, I don't give a f*ck attitude with them.
Oh yes, looks like the blight is spreading too. Kelly road in Harper Woods looks about as bad as Morang. The Detroit side of Kelly has fallen into decay. That too was a beautiful area.
Sigh. (sorry for the rant)
Dave |
Detrola
Member
Username: Detrola
Post Number: 52
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 11:34 am: | |
For the most part we are not talking about the choice between food and a gallon of paint. If you have timberlands on your feet than you can manage a broom to sweep and a flat of flowers to plant. How a person chooses to live is a reflection on that person. It matters not if you rent or own.
To answer the question of the original post. Yes, detroit residents should take responsibility for MOST ALL of the inner city decay.
Detroit will comeback only when detroiters rise up and demand better of themselves and for themselves. The call for change has to come from south of 8 mile. |
Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan
Post Number: 766
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 11:57 am: | |
quote:Absolutely. But the reason why their homes have fallen into decay is usually money.
Like the OP said, keeping your yard free of garbage is FREE and yet many people still choose to have front yards littered with all kinds of trash and junk. Pulling weeds does not cost money either. There are a multitude of little things that people could do that costs no money but they choose not to do it. |
Rjk
Member
Username: Rjk
Post Number: 789
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 12:31 pm: | |
The city needs leadership on this problem. People need to be called out on the litter problem in the city by the mayor, community leaders and anyone else with a platform that can reach people.
The amount of garbage I see in the city is appalling. Where's Woodsy Owl when you need him?
(Message edited by rjk on August 04, 2007) |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 1506
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 12:41 pm: | |
There's some serious priority problems too. I don't understand buying $2300 rims for your 1992 Caprice when your house is falling apart. That's just bad investment. Cars do nothing but go down in value. The only point in spending money on that is status. Apparently having a nice, well maintained house in the city does not give one as much status as having spinner rims on your POS car.
Also, of course, renters don't tend to care as much, since there is no pride of ownership. So unless landlords take care of the property, nothing will be done about it. And with a lack of code enforcement, they aren't. |
Hutt
Member
Username: Hutt
Post Number: 23
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 12:54 pm: | |
The city is an absolute joke anymore. There's a considerable amount of cash to be made in tickets to the landlords who rent out section 8 housing for about $900 or $1,000 per month and the grass doesn't get cut until its knee-high. All the while you see ABLE BODIED people living there who could care less. You call 311 to get someone to write a ticket or inspect or simply show up and nothing happens. It really trashes up the block but good, and it happens on the main streets as well. Lets all move downtown so we don't have to deal with this nonsense anymore. |
Buyamerican
Member
Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 104
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 1:06 pm: | |
It's not renters. It's not landlords. It's not the City of Detroit's fault. The people who reside in ANY home in Detroit know what clean means. They take pride in their expensive cars with the expensive rims and expensive speakers, so why not take pride in their homes. Don't blame the elderly either. The decline in the City wasn't because of the elderly citizens, THEY were the ones who took great pride in their homes. We left our small home in the 7 Mile and Hayes area in the early 90's. When we left the house, it was clean, fixed up, new carpet, painted walls, front door was attached to the house, trees were trimmed, bushes were trimmed, grass was lush and green. One year later, the same house wasn't recognizable. The house was bought by someone, not rented. No one cares and has pride in Detroit. No one cares about the historic icons in Detroit. When in the hell are people going to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming someone else for their actions??? |
Detx
Member
Username: Detx
Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 1:46 pm: | |
<Do you feel that some of the blame for the decline in Detroit, should rest in the residents of 313, who have let their homes fall into decay and not getting involved in their community, etc?
Yes. However, lots of residents live below the poverty line and I’m not surprised when they need a new roof and it goes unfixed.
That being said, it takes NO MONEY to pick up the trash that collects on your front lawn or nearby vacant lot. People that allow this to happen are just lazy. If everyone would pitch in and basically clean and look after what is theirs, then the city’s neighborhoods would be in much better shape. |
Karl
Member
Username: Karl
Post Number: 9149
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 2:50 pm: | |
Where are the investigative reporters in Detroit? I'd like to see one of them go with the guy/lady who's job it is to write tickets for trash, weeds, etc. Stay with them and film what goes on for one week. Then run the whole mess on the news.
Detroiters, the folks you pay ain't doin' their jobs, sorry. |
Detroitrunaway
Member
Username: Detroitrunaway
Post Number: 71
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 2:55 pm: | |
Quote: It's not renters. It's not landlords. It's not the City of Detroit's fault. The people who reside in ANY home in Detroit know what clean means. They take pride in their expensive cars with the expensive rims and expensive speakers, so why not take pride in their homes.
BuyAmerican....that was a good point. They do know what clean means. People who want that type of status are only concerned with being 'HoodRich' If you're rich in the hood...nothing else matters. cuz that was their goal...and they reached it.
It's sad. |
Deteamster
Member
Username: Deteamster
Post Number: 29
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 3:02 pm: | |
I think Motor City makeover was a good indicator of how very little many residents care about...anything.
A lot of dedicated people cleaned this neighbourhood till it was spotless...within a week, it was back to the way it was. Litter everywhere! We really are, "the city of blowing garbage".
Impose massive fines for littering and dumping and ordinance violations. I want to see the next asshole who smashes his forty on the sidewalk fined $500. There is NO reason or excuse for the flagrant disregard for basic cleanliness and decency in this city. |
Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan
Post Number: 767
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 3:16 pm: | |
quote:Where are the investigative reporters in Detroit? I'd like to see one of them go with the guy/lady who's job it is to write tickets for trash, weeds, etc. Stay with them and film what goes on for one week. Then run the whole mess on the news.
I'm guessing it would look something like this:
City workers napping all morning in their work trucks, wake up for lunch, smoke a joint or two, and back to napping for the rest of the afternoon until their shift is over. |