  Prokopowicz Member Username: Prokopowicz Post Number: 17 Registered: 02-2005 |
I love Joe Louis Fist. me too, but I always thought they should make it go round on the people mover... For some reason this made me laugh out loud. | ||
Detx Member Username: Detx Post Number: 5 Registered: 07-2007 |
ORF said: “If white people were upset with him, that meant he was doing his job as he saw it. He was in office too long but he was a great man who loved this city.” I’m certain that’s not a job duty of any elected official. Most reasonable people I know would call that racist. With that attitude, no wonder such massive divestment occurred in Detroit. And you think he’s a great man? Do you realize that because of his twenty-year dereliction of duty we are stuck with a very large mess that he greatly (though not wholly) contributed to? It’s going to take Detroit decades (most likely longer) before it even comes close to fixing the problems that were rampant and unchecked during his reign. Or maybe you mean he was a great man as in he was a great individual. I guess I can’t comment on that, because I never met him personally. Perhaps you have. But judging from the things I’ve read about him my inference would be that he was anything but a great man. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4532 Registered: 10-2003 |
Or maybe it was your racist outlook that seems to be generously sprinkled throughout your posts on this topic... | ||
Detx Member Username: Detx Post Number: 6 Registered: 07-2007 |
The old ever reliable, ever ready Detroit race card is pulled. So soon? That was only my 5th post. I wasn’t aware that Councilwoman Monica Conyers was a poster on this site... I believe you’re trying to call me racist, and I’ll have you know I take great offense to that, what with my biracial family and all. I emphatically cannot see any correlation between racism and my comments. I’m simply stating what I believe is an indefensible fact: CAY was a bad leader. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4533 Registered: 10-2003 |
Did I need for you to bring the lynch mob before I pulled it? | ||
3420 Member Username: 3420 Post Number: 116 Registered: 10-2003 |
You talk about Coleman Young the politician and when he is talked about you can see the racism that is dividing this region. How many have actually met the man to know the difference between the politician and the man? Read about him, watch the films, listen to citizens who thought he stood up for them and you may understand why he may have been the way he was. Growing up as a young black man may have been tough for him and he probably decided not to take no stuff from no one who was going to push him around. Just take the time and think if he really hated white people. I honestly don't think he did but disliked the way people have tried to run over him or tell him this is how its going to be attitude. People can joke around and say a lil curse word or two just for laughs. I have seen some ministers curse and then looked at the side of the preacher man/woman and wondered.But I knew it wasn't my place to judge him. If you were mayor could you effectively save Detroit with its problems? That questions plagues my mind every now and then as I look around my neighborhood wondering why so many people just don't give a damn period. Mayor Young may have been what so many people said or rumored about him, but you can tell in his heart he loved this city and thats real. I don't use the race card period because we are all part of the human race. When will this region learn? I didn't see this much racism even when I was in the delta of Mississippi when I was there. So when I see people use the us vs. them attitude it really saddens me. Detroit and southeast Michigan have to come together or the pothole attitude that is peeking through Michigan Ave. will get even bigger. You can't keep patching it up every now and then and then come back and ride over it again with some salt or heat applied to it. You have to resurface the level and smooth relations out with everyone. That is my pothole method for fixing southeast Michigan. So the point I'm trying to make is we are all human and have to get along. Don't be so quick to judge Coleman Young or anyone without really knowing what they may have been through. Not trying to say what he did or anyone have done is good in your eyes, but don't judge until you look at yourself. He was mayor for a reason just like you are what you are for a reason. I'm not trying to take up or speak for the late Mayor but saying in the end what you may see someone do as bad may be good to others. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 9081 Registered: 09-2005 |
Pay no attention, Detx. Little man stylin has to come puff out his chest so someone might think he be macho. His prime target (African American women) don't seem to be fooled. Your posts are detailed and articulate, free of vulgarity and cursing - making them worthy of consideration by all but the most ignorant. I hope you continue to share your ideas. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4534 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well thats because you are the Grand Imperial Wizard karl...of course his posts sill seem to make sense.... | ||
Detx Member Username: Detx Post Number: 7 Registered: 07-2007 |
DS, Lynch mob? A loathsome notion. Once again, I maintain that CAY was a bad leader. And I believe this is an objective fact that has nothing to do with the color of his skin. Bad leadership is bad leadership. Why would you turn this into a race issue? I think you suppose that I think he was incompetent just because he’s black. Your racist accusations and overall direction is INCREDIBLY ill informed… 3420, So many of your points are valid. But I believe that we as citizens of this country, and as taxpayers, have the right to question the direction our elected officials are or have taken us. We absolutely have to hold them accountable for their decision making process. Many, many times while driving through Detroit I say to myself, “Who the heck is in charge here? Who the heck is letting all this happen?” Of course, CAY is long gone, and Detroit is much, much better as a result. He could never usher in the type of development that Archer and KK has. But we are still stuck in the quagmire that he (AND OTHERS) created for us. I’m not ignorant to think there was or is an easy solution to our problems. But I know that once we as citizens of Michigan begin to hold our leaders accountable, through the good and the bad, or whether it be Engler, Granholm, CAY, LBP, or KK, we will begin to see some positive changes for Detroit, the Metro Detroit region, and Michigan. Karl, Thanks for your comments. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4537 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well then educate me Detx and I will retract my statement. You know Karl says i have merely a DPS edumacation, and since us lowly nigras aint as intelligent as you (according to Karl) then maybe I missed all your reasoning why you say what you did. You tell us where Cay jacked the city up that was running soooooooooooo smoothly and excellently under the administration before his... Hell for that matter the previous two administrations before his. You spoke of how he was a foul leader yet you cited not one single solitary reason as to why... Typical... | ||
3420 Member Username: 3420 Post Number: 117 Registered: 10-2003 |
Detx, I agree with you all the way. We have to hold our leaders accountable. I look at my paycheck and want to know why the fields and streets aren't being cleaned with all the taxes eating up my check. As I have said I look around my area and just want to get in a bulldozer the size of the rencen and just demolish and rebuild. The same thing many saw in Mayor Young I saw in Archer and see in Kilpatrick. And if I research more I probably will see the same problems before those three were mayor. But Detroit is on its way. We just got to fix some problems that keep on hurting Detroit over and over then we can go ahead with the world class destination status. In my heart I want to believe Detroit is but its only sections of Detroit that make this city world class or even have a world class mayor. Mayor Young may have believed what he did was good and I can't take that from him, but he did what he could with what he had. If he had lived to see Detroit now maybe he would have had a different outlook about Detroit and southeast Michigan. Sometimes it takes after you have been in a position for awhile to get out of that position and see it from the outside looking in. One thing that makes me really laugh is if the late mayor was alive today would he complaint about city services as a private citizen? | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 100 Registered: 05-2006 |
Detx Welcome! I hope you're thick skinned. 3420 What doe's having met the man have to do with his so called leadership and running a city? | ||
3420 Member Username: 3420 Post Number: 118 Registered: 10-2003 |
Caldogven, What I mean by that is if you are a politician you are going to act like a politician. I expect that from just about every politician. But if you are talking to me as Coleman Young and not Mayor Young then I know the difference. His leadership is what he called leadership. If you didn't like the way he ran the city then that's you. I can't knock you for saying that. But in my opinion you can see the difference when a politician is being there title or the person they are. The same question can be applied to the current mayor. When he was running during his first term he told my brother and I he was going to do this and that. Just like he does now.Now thats the politician. I questioned his so called leadership and running this city. But when you meet Kwame Kilpatrick in person and he doesn't have the Mayor title on during that time and he just on the Riverfront enjoying himself you can meet the man just being himself. He may even quote something from the bible but that is him being Kwame Kilpatrick. I want to make that as clear as possible to anyone who may take what I'm saying the wrong way. | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 102 Registered: 05-2006 |
3420 Is'nt the Mayor supposed to be the Mayor at all times? | ||
3420 Member Username: 3420 Post Number: 119 Registered: 10-2003 |
I just feel that if you really get a chance to meet or know the person you voted for, you will get a better understanding of them. Just saying he/she was a bad leader not knowing hardly nothing about them is useless. Or going by everyone saying he/she did this and that and jumping on is not good. If you vote for someone just because they look good or they can articulate what they are saying better than the next person doesn't mean I'm going to vote for you. I just have to know the person on a level where I can say what kind of leader they are. Sometimes I feel Mayor Kilpatrick is not a good choice for Detroit. But when I actually took the time and got to know the mayor and see what he is doing then I decide what kind of leader he is. | ||
3420 Member Username: 3420 Post Number: 120 Registered: 10-2003 |
Caldogven, Yes he/she is. But he/she has a personal life. When he/she is just with there family and being a father/mother they are not Mayor Dad or Mom. When at church he/she is not Rev. Mayor or Bro/Sis Mayor. You are you. Yes you are a elected official but you have a life too. Yes he/she is elected to office as mayor and should be. But you are to have a personal life where your title what you are in your household or lifestyle. I feel what you saying, but you have to separate the two. | ||
Detx Member Username: Detx Post Number: 8 Registered: 07-2007 |
DS, Since you haven’t acknowledged CAY’s part in Detroit’s downfall at all, it seems like you are simply attempting to pass the buck onto mayors who have preceded CAY. You’re coming across as being a very ignorant person. Reread my posts and you will see that I make an effort to state that I don’t think CAY is solely responsible for the current state of Detroit or the state of Detroit during his time as mayor. But he played a very large factor in the dilapidated Detroit that we all have inherited. To hold a candle to his man’s name and to praise him as a mayor is ridiculous. Why was he a foul leader? C’mon, you know that answer. Massive small business and corporate divestment, soaring crime rates, tarnished national image of Detroit, white flight, the circling of the drain of the DPS, etc. What about Devil’s Night? What kind of LEADER would let that go on under their watch? In the town that they so love? DS, I’ll carve up your position like a Thanksgiving turkey. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4561 Registered: 10-2003 |
I never stated a position on CAY and Detroit unlike you have. I simply asked you why you stated what yous stated and back it up. Your post dripped with exactly what I accused you of. But I have since then told you that if you came with a reason why you said what you said then I would back off. However as is typical with a bigot backed into a corner instead of responding to my post with some degree of sense, you turn it around and try to redirect you failures to explain your case on me. I didn't make any claims against the man, the burden of proof is on you. | ||
Detx Member Username: Detx Post Number: 9 Registered: 07-2007 |
DS, My reasons are listed in a very plain, objective, sensible manner. I don’t think you are capable of comprehending what I’m saying. Sadly, there’s about 800 k more of you in Detroit. That’s why Detroit is what it is. Behold, posters, the real impediment to Detroit’s progress: DS I watch that city council channel on cable and often wonder, “Who elects these jokers?” Now I know who’s keeping them in business. It’s becoming more and more clear that you’re the one who is biased here. | ||
Detroitrunaway Member Username: Detroitrunaway Post Number: 65 Registered: 06-2007 |
When I came across this thread (for the first time), I smiled. This is an opportunity for me to express my opinion of him (which won't be too much...cuz I was too young to vote during the majority of his term) but maybe I can say a few things; express myself, learn a bit, and live by my the new found experience. Here is a list of my CAY thoughts: - When he became major in 1973 or 1974 (can't recall off the top)it was perfect timing for the need of a local leader and mentor for the blacks (us/me) in Detroit. When I say need I mean by the need to pave way for a more diverse playing field. He accomplished that by putting more blacks on the police force, fire dept, city counsel (although, if there are people on the council from his term...may need to retire and let some new blood step in) and other various city departments. It was a positive step towards allowing blacks to show what they're worth and capable of handling now that the opportunity is available to them. - I don't have any proof...only what I heard from adults at the time...that the city was selling all sorts of house that was in default or abandoned for little of nothing, as long as you repaired it to code and lived in it for a short time. note: one way to allow recent renter a chance to become a homeowner. - Overall, Mr. Young was a diligent supporter and leader for federal funding for many of Detroit's construction projects, completion of the Renaissance Center (with the help of some of his administrative support), Joe Louis Arena, Detroit People Mover and various other Detroit landmarks. -- Coleman was also very controversial.... meaning that his political views, business conduct, and confrontational manner help boost the confidence in the majority of Detroiter yet exasperated most of the city's suburban neighbors. The effects of his conflict-ridden characteristic had both a negative and positive effect on the city. Not to mention it opened doors that led him to become subject of continued FBI scrutiny amid allegations of contract kickbacks (which might I add was never proven) and few other mediocre business decisions and second-rate personal choices he made. Now here comes the twist... (ohh! the antisipation)I think Coleman's biggest obstacles were a whole hell of a large number of the citizen's of Detroit; definitely his some of his corrupted adminstrators...especially, Chief of Police William Hart and (last but not least) our suburban counterparts or soon to be...(who I might add had a lot of negative participation in Detroit's fast-pace deterioration). One person can't do it alone. All residents must take responsibility to they're actions; take pride in what's theirs and strive (even without the help of higher powers above Coleman that could cared less about the welfare and safety of the city. It's proven fact that we (as a whole) when we, compared to any other race, spend a shit load of disposable income on just about everything...except, mostly on what it would take to have kept Detroit thriving based on circulating the money within the city. Anyone ever heard the term...'might as well keep it in the family". An abundant of us didn't do enough to make a difference, which in turn contributed greatly with the decline of the city's stability. Coleman had a voice, but we all have one too. Detroitrunaway (ready for feedback) | ||
Ct4life Member Username: Ct4life Post Number: 1 Registered: 07-2007 |
Here's a blog on this topic from an African-American perspective: http://detroitramblings.blogsp ot.com/2007/07/did-coleman-you ng-really-hate-white.html | ||
Detroitrunaway Member Username: Detroitrunaway Post Number: 66 Registered: 06-2007 |
Ct4life - Those sound like my perceptions of him (almost)to the tee. Except the last part...I just don't know how many people feel now-a-days. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4563 Registered: 10-2003 |
Good Post CT....but of course you are aware that you will be placed in the same category of being black militants like myself and few other people of who speak unbiased truth ri? | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 9125 Registered: 09-2005 |
Stylin, Ct posted an article, why would that make him a miltant? Detroitrunaway seemed to agree with the article - but what do you think about Detroitrunaway's thoughtful post? | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 835 Registered: 11-2005 |
Coleman Young. Good or bad? Good for a laugh, bad for the city of Detroit. Anyone who doesn't have "Quotations of Mayor Coleman A. Young" needs to buy a copy, like, now. Among my favorites, ahem: On being greeted by a cabinet secretary's underling when on a visit to Washington: "I didn't come to see the house n*****. Get me the man." On being told in Japan by an elderly interpreter that there are many Japanese words that have different meanings depending on the tone of voice: "Oh yes. We have words like that in English, too: motherfucker." On whether Blanchard might grow in office: "You don't grow balls. Either you got 'em or you don't." | ||
Blksoul_x Member Username: Blksoul_x Post Number: 41 Registered: 06-2007 |
The grand wizard quoted.... quote: 'D-style', pay NO attention to blksoul-atcha! | ||
Detroitrunaway Member Username: Detroitrunaway Post Number: 69 Registered: 06-2007 |
blksoul_x there you go again....thinking you know me so well. Why don't you just give a real comment and stop skating around the subject. I'm a big girl I can handle it...the last time I looked...I don't wear my heart on my sleeve. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 9132 Registered: 09-2005 |
Well, up til now I didn't know (or care) whether Detroitrunaway was male or female. However, now we hit the Achilles heel of both DS and BS-x who can't seem to handle any critique whatsoever from black females - hmmmm wonder why? Detroitrunaway, stand your ground. What you will see is no answer at all, or something from these 2 birds that essentially says "get back in your place - behind us." You are right - they are skating around the subject, as thugs have a tendency to do when exposed to the light of day. Ignore 'em, and I'd like to hear more of what you have to say about these crucial issues for the COD. | ||
Detroitrunaway Member Username: Detroitrunaway Post Number: 70 Registered: 06-2007 |
thanks Karl. normally I agree with a lot of Dstyles views. I think the majority of us have a lot of opinions that are similar....and some that are on opposite sides of the track. once I became of voting age...Coleman was stepping down because of his health. I think he should have stepped down sooner....because we step into a new age...and needed new blood to accomplish it. He did what he could...which is why he shouldn't have stayed in office as long as he did. When Archer came aboard...I became more involved. Taking part in Detroit Clean Sweep, Paint the town (painting seniior citizens homes, fed the homeless and other activities. It was a small part...but none-the-less I felt I had to do something. But most didn't like Archer...and he left long before it was his time. I hope he's doing well in his new endeavors. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 9134 Registered: 09-2005 |
I find it interesting that Rudy Guliani was able to tackle crime in NYC (more people, more problems) and emerge a hero with dramatic decreases in all crime #'s. Coleman Young was never able to step up to that plate and govern effectively, essentially helping Detroit further along a path of ruin in certain essential areas. I believe it was because no matter what he did in the crime/police area, he could not/would not escape the "racist" label and chose to avoid that, effectively dooming Detroit (at least for the foreseeable future) In retrospect, a lousy legacy. Meanwhile, Detroit sits in the ditch, a shadow of itself while NYC thrives in ways never thought possible only a few years ago. Both Rudy & Coleman are gone. Who would have been better for Detroit? |
