  Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1051 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote: quote: Make up you mind - which is it, Gentrification or Speculation? | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 2105 Registered: 02-2007 |
Gentrification it is. As I said, the residents will come regardless. Look at Victoria Park or Morningside? (Message edited by Urbanize on August 05, 2007) | ||
Detx Member Username: Detx Post Number: 14 Registered: 07-2007 |
There is a huge difference between the type of person that can afford a 300 k home and a 65 k home. 300 k home buyers are most likely going to be business class professionals while a 65 k homebuyer probably works in the labor or retail industry. One group’s making a lot more money than the other and I think overwhelmingly most neighborhoods (or subdivisions nowadays) consist of individuals and families who fall within the same tax bracket. Even in SW Detroit, which is primarily blue collar and is growing by leaps and bounds, I don’t see a lot of 300 k type homebuyers moving in. Another thing to consider is the educational disparity between a 300 k homebuyer (bachelors at the very least) and a 65 k homebuyer (little to no college education). I know a lot of college-educated people my age who absolutely insist on living in communities where the homeowners are as educated as they are. The question is; would a 300 k type homebuyer want to make neighbors with a 65 k type homebuyer? I’m all for this project, but I’m curious to know what makes the developers of this project think they can overcome the above issues. Are there any mixed income/mixed education communities that exist and succeed in Detroit now? | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6321 Registered: 02-2004 |
White folks on the other side of Alter Rd. don't have to look over the DEAD (C)KRAK HEAD infested Detroit blighted ghetto anymore. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 204 Registered: 02-2007 |
Crazy idea here.. Why does the city or whomever have to build them? Typically, if someone wishes to habitate in a certain area and there is no dwelling, they buy the land and have a house built. Or why doesn't a developer come in and re-home these areas? I'm not following this reasoning of why it's the city's responsibility. This line of thought is why I doubt the residential areas of the city will ever return. Everyone is waiting for someone else to do it. Further, the city of Detroit is no position financially to be building homes that may or may not be occupied or may or may not be maintained. Remember, there were houses on these tracts already. Those fell in to disrepair to total loss. Why all of a sudden is everyone going to change habits and start maintaining their properties? If I were a lender for this project, these are the concerns I'd bring to the table. I know there are a few "villages" in the city that don't fall in, this is in reference to the city at large. Seems they would wait for a housing demand to kick off a project like that. There are thousands of homes around the metro area that aren't selling as it is. (Message edited by sstashmoo on August 05, 2007) | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 2109 Registered: 02-2007 |
Heck, judging from the virtual photos, it will even Compliment the Pointes (maybe even out shine the part of the Pointes west of Buckingham). | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3475 Registered: 02-2005 |
Fat chance, Urbanize. But it will be nice. "Why does the city or whomever have to build them?" The city ain't building them! There's a good amount of gov. subsidization (under affordable housing laws and through other incentive packages), but the city merely banked long-vacant land and packaged the land to developers, national developers at that. The city sold the land, land which often doesn't even have extant homes on it anymore, to developers. The city is not building the homes, it just created a situation and a master plan that would make it easier for developers to step in. This is what is now happening. It's not a controlled market that we're witnessing here, it's developers feeling it might finally be the time to pull the trigger on this plan. Overall, there's more supply then demand for housing across the region. But this is a small slice of the region, and the housing built here in this unique location will be differentiated from the rest of the region? What will these homes have in common with neighborhoods in Warren or West Bloomfield? Nothing. Let's not forget that if there is any momentum, it favors the city. There's an element of speculation here, without a doubt, but it's not the city that's speculating, it's people with money. | ||
Lvnthed Member Username: Lvnthed Post Number: 144 Registered: 03-2007 |
Danny, What the hell are you talking about. If they don't want to see the crackheads, tell them to stay out of the mirror!!!! Detx, I don't know how old you are, but I will tell you that I make 250K a year without a College Education, and I know a lot of the so-called educated class that I don't wan't cutting my grass, let alone being my neighbor. Education and income are not my definition of a neighbor. character trumps all, and that comes from the heart. NOT THE BANK. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 668 Registered: 07-2006 |
site plan (with east-west streets), floor plans, drawings of the townhouses, etc: http://www.detroitdirectdevelo pment.com/powerpoint.pdf | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 2115 Registered: 02-2007 |
Sweet, From what I can see, Shaw's BookStore will be moving across on the Detroit side of the border, they will have the Alley ways open, and the area even getting a Jeep Dealership (and if I read correctly), a Moose Lounge? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1770 Registered: 06-2006 |
who is going to live in these houses? Any families with the means to afford them would just move the suburbs where the schools aren't a complete joke | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 773 Registered: 11-2006 |
The 65K homes will be bought for investment and rented out. They will then fall into disrepair. Such is life. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 2119 Registered: 02-2007 |
^^^They have The Detroit Merit Academy (which is actually a decent school because I know people who attend there) and I'm sure people have their ways when it comes to getting into GPP High School or something. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 430 Registered: 02-2006 |
I love the brownstones. I wish Detroit would re-zone the abandon areas for Brooklyn typed brownstones. Have the garage entrance located in the back, with no drive way entrance from the street(actually creates more street parking) only alley entrances. Brick brownstones really hold their value. <313> | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1209 Registered: 02-2006 |
Only in Detroit would people consider a $300k house the domain of the upper class. The median (not mean) sales price of a home in the US last year was $226,000. What are the midtown condos selling for? $200-something? No one seems to have any problem with people buying those. Yet someone builds a single-family home and suddenly $300k is outrageous? | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1210 Registered: 02-2006 |
Oh, and Detroit313, unfortunately, these will not be brick. They will be brick veneer. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3482 Registered: 02-2005 |
It looks like indeed some cross-streets will be added. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2337 Registered: 07-2004 |
The floor plan of the main floor of the single family home doesn't have a whole lot of space. This must be the plans for the $65,000 house. A family room in the front of the house? Hopefully, the developers will include a basement that can be finished to provide for a family room. Basically, you have two rooms on the main floor. My parents house at least gives you four rooms and a large kitchen and it was built in 1917. Hopefully, there will be larger homes built. That layout is too small for me. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 433 Registered: 02-2006 |
Damn. BTW, stop being so cheap. 300 grand is not high for a house today. Detroiters, stop investing in your automobile. You have got your priorities all screwed up. Cars do not hold their value. Homes do, well in most cities. It makes no sense cars are a more valuable than homes in Detroit. <313> | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2338 Registered: 07-2004 |
Nice that they will add at least one cross street. Two would be ideal. Detroit313, I agree with you that it would be nice to see some Brooklyn/NYC style brownstones in Detroit. Currently, one is being rehabbed on Charlotte between Woodward and Park. I think Joel Lundy is doing the rehab. Focusonthed, I don't think that people are objecting to a developer building $300,000 homes in Detroit. I think people are questioning the logic behind building $65,000 homes in the same area as $300,000 homes. People who can afford the more expensive homes tend to be a two-wage earning married couple with two kids. People who can afford the less expensive homes tend to be a single-wage earner who is a single mom with two or more kids. A class issue exists between these two diverse groups. As far as I know the mixing of these two groups is not a typical occurrence in the U.S. As someone said earlier, people tend to live in neighborhoods with people that have similar incomes, education, and backgrounds. The wealthy and the poor in most cities tend to live away from each other. Therefore, I doubt that there will be many takers for the $300,000 homes in this development. Now, put these homes in up and coming Brush Park and you'll have a lot more takers. People have to believe that an area is desirable before they fork out that kind of money. This Fox Creek development lacks that desirability in my opinion. (Message edited by royce on August 06, 2007) | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2339 Registered: 07-2004 |
Detroit313, I have to disagree with you on a $300,000 house being cheap. That's a McMansion, and currently a lot of people living in McMansions in the suburbs are selling their homes or losing them to foreclosure, not so much due to the poor economy here in Michigan but because mortgage lenders and banks tricked people into believing that they could afford such an expensive house. They gave them no interest mortgages, or adjustable rate mortgages, or mortgages whose interest rate would double after 10 years, based on the idea that the homeowner would be in a higher income bracket and could afford the higher mortgage, but then people started losing their jobs or were being bought out. Prices in places like California, Chicago, Atlanta, in and around DC, and other places in the east are ridiculously overpriced and that's why homes can't be sold. The real estate market is hurting because those $700,000 homes can't be maintained(people can't make the mortgage payment) and can't be sold. In addition, home builders have built too many of these homes and now are faced with the fact that people realistically don't have the money to buy these McMansions. Personally, I can't afford to buy a $300,000 house, new or old, and if I could afford it, I'm not sure I would buy one. That's usually a big house requiring a lot of upkeep and requiring a lot of heat in the winter time. Now, for those that can afford it, good for them. I just don't think that many who can afford a $300,000 house are going to buy one in Detroit, unless it's in Indian Village, Boston Edison, or Brush Park. However, buying a $300,000 condo in Detroit makes sense because condos require little to no maintenance, and are usually more secure than living in a house{closeness of neighbors and fewer entry points}. The property tax abatement is also a plus with most condo developments. Again, a $300,000 house is not cheap, and with the uncertainty of the economy, especially here in Michigan, it is a risky investment. Give me something less expensive and smaller that I can manage physically and financially. The money I save on the mortgage, heat bill, and property taxes from a smaller, less expensive house will give me that extra gasoline money I will need when gas prices jump up to $4 a gallon. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 1221 Registered: 09-2006 |
I'd live there especially with all these insane incentives they are offering. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1298 Registered: 04-2006 |
"No one is being displaced here. The plan for this area from the get go has been to work with the existing residents who have stuck it out, and build the neighborhood around them." ...which is what gentrification is... | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 271 Registered: 12-2006 |
"No one is being displaced here. The plan for this area from the get go has been to work with the existing residents who have stuck it out, and build the neighborhood around them." So what happens to these original residents when their property values skyrocket to the point they can't pay their property taxes? Well...at least they'll probably make a tidy profit on their home. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1772 Registered: 06-2006 |
"So what happens to these original residents when their property values skyrocket to the point they can't pay their property taxes?" they move...that's how an area improves itself... | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3489 Registered: 02-2005 |
Yeah, but with property values having skyrocketed, they can sell their house and make good money, assuming they are not renting (but in that case they'd be more mobile and their funds would be more liquid, anyway). Let's not fool ourselves, gentrification can help original residents a ton if they own their house. In fact, it can be like money out of thin air. The few holdouts in Brush Park will be laughing all the way to the bank in a few years. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 876 Registered: 11-2003 |
For about a decade now, annual property tax increases in Michigan have been capped by Proposal A at the rate of inflation. Michiganders cannot be displaced by "skyrocketing" property taxes. | ||
Spartacus Member Username: Spartacus Post Number: 202 Registered: 07-2005 |
"So what happens to these original residents when their property values skyrocket to the point they can't pay their property taxes?" Property tax assessments in Michigan are capped so this is not an issue. | ||
Spartacus Member Username: Spartacus Post Number: 203 Registered: 07-2005 |
Swingline: You beat me to it. | ||
Dannaroo Member Username: Dannaroo Post Number: 103 Registered: 05-2006 |
I never understood this type of argument about new developments in lower income areas: quote: If they are homeowners and their property values are really rising so high and so fast, they can sell for a profit and improve their situation. If they are renters and the rents rise, they can search for somewhere else to live. If you are literate enough to sign a rental agreement, you should have read it and be made aware that you do not own the home and at some point in time the landlord will have the right to raise the rent or not renew the lease. The mobility afforded by renting is supposed to be one of its perks. (Message edited by Dannaroo on August 06, 2007) |
