  Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 972 Registered: 10-2003 |
Based on the studies that indicate Detroit Public Schools students are more likely to end up in prison than college, this should be good news (for them). They won't have to go to prison anymore. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=20077080903 04 | ||
Lo_to_d Member Username: Lo_to_d Post Number: 9 Registered: 07-2007 |
Fuck L. Brooks Patterson!!!!! | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 973 Registered: 10-2003 |
Trying to get out of jail time are you? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1796 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Fuck L. Brooks Patterson!!!!!" Translation: I was anti-letting felons out of prison until I saw that L. Brooks opposes it as well and therefore I now support the idea... | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 974 Registered: 10-2003 |
Bingo TJ! | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1332 Registered: 04-2006 |
Which felonies are being proposed to become misdemeanors? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1333 Registered: 04-2006 |
And I petition the moderator to change the title of this thread as it is misleading to the content being discussed. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9763 Registered: 10-2003 |
I agree with LBP on this one but I still overwhelmingly say Fuck LBP | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 1119 Registered: 02-2007 |
OF COURSE!!! and Brooks doesn't tell you that the felons the proposal would release include bribing an athlete, providing fake info on a driver's license permit and falsifying school records. There is raising the felony threshold to $5000 from $1000. That's the first increase in how many years? He also doesn't propose any alternatives. What a Whiner, or weiner, whichever | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1798 Registered: 06-2006 |
rb336: are any violent crimes included as well? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9766 Registered: 10-2003 |
an entire list would be pretty nice to see. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 616 Registered: 12-2006 |
I would submit that we are vastly overusing the idea that putting people in jail helps society. I think jail or prison should only be for people who need to be kept away from society for our safety's sake. Given that, there are millions of people I'd release tomorrow. Any paperwork crime ("falsifying school records", just for one example) can be punished by other than time in jail or prison. Use- and possession-of-drugs types of crimes, same thing. If I was 100% in charge of Michigan's criminal justice system it would cost a lot less money to operate, because jail or prison doesn't accomplish anything except to keep someone away from society for a period of time. For fun, help me out: think of creative and appropriate penalties for what I would consider nonjailable crimes. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 617 Registered: 12-2006 |
By the way, is it legal in Michigan to own an Uzi? I know it's not uncommon; I'm wondering if it's legal. If not, suggest to me an appropriate punishment for the Honorable L. Brooks Patterson, since (in that case) he is inciting unlawful behavior, which I would make a nonjailable offense. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1845 Registered: 11-2003 |
L. Brooks' opinion piece (and most of this discussion) is worthless without knowing what felonies will be reclassified as misdemeanors. | ||
The_nerd Member Username: The_nerd Post Number: 443 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Tip of the day: Don't get "smart," only to realize that instead of hitting your intended target, you only hit yourself because your name comes immediately after "how do you spell stupid?" | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1602 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Everybody should go out and buy a gun. I recommend an Uzi. If you don't like guns, then I suggest you buy a pair of guard dogs, preferably a pit bull and a Rottweiler." I hope this quote comes back to haunt him if uzi murders and maulings by pit bulls ever hit the news. You know the pit bulls one will, the media likes to hit that topic every couple years or so. I know it was a bit tongue in cheek, however, people rarely remember that later. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1336 Registered: 04-2006 |
By the way, is it legal in Michigan to own an Uzi? I'm not sure of the different types of uzi's but the "UZI Model B, 9MM semi-automatic carbine with a folding stock" is apparently illegal in Michigan (according to the Michigan State Police website: http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0, 1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953--, 00.html). I'm not sure why they are so specific about that one though... Is that the only one with bullets able to penetrate protective vests? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 618 Registered: 12-2006 |
Well, there we go! How do we punish LBP, now that he's committed what in my fantasy criminal justice system is an offense? Can we make him live south of Eight Mile Road for a while? Perhaps we could make him ride the bus to work. (I enjoy that, myself, but somehow I think he would not.) Okay, Brooks wasn't specific as to the type of Uzi (who knew there were so many options?) but we'll still call it an offense. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1611 Registered: 10-2003 |
Lets just have him foot the bill for more prisons, since he thinks letting out less serious offenders from our overcrowded system is such a problem. | ||
Rogerjab Member Username: Rogerjab Post Number: 56 Registered: 06-2005 |
Brooks Patterson is a racist, and a drunk. Surprising he didn't promote the death penalty (again) for any prisoners he may have to house. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 619 Registered: 12-2006 |
Ah, brings back memories of Robin Harris, the black comedian who died tragically young. He proposed in his stand-up routine that if he were in charge, the death penalty would apply to everything. Parking ticket? Gas chamber. Shoplifting? Electric chair. As his mixed-race audience reacted with some trepidation, he explained he had seen trials and his proposal "would eliminate all that whining to the judge." "But, your honor, I won't do it no more!" (in a deep voice): "I know." | ||
Trying_2_stay Member Username: Trying_2_stay Post Number: 17 Registered: 08-2007 |
I think this thread name is BS my kids attend DPS and are not going to end up in prison any more than kids in any other school system neither are their friends. If your are going to make a statement like that say some DPS students. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 1144 Registered: 02-2007 |
No violent crimes. I haven't seen a total list either, and would welcome that. Brooks just keeps coming back with something vile -- he wants the rest of the state to pay to house his minor offenders. He always seems to want others to pay for things that benefit oakland county, as long as they aren't residents or businesses here | ||
None Member Username: None Post Number: 12 Registered: 07-2007 |
Heres a good update on the subject http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070810/M ETRO/708100382 Downgrading felonies stokes debate Maureen Feighan and Charlie Cain / The Detroit News The hyperbole brought new attention to a state proposal to repeal 25 state felonies, reclassify 142 others as misdemeanors and reduce sentences for 58 more to save the state roughly $100 million over three years in prison and related costs. Cant seem to find a copy of the proposal anywhere, any one here have better research skills? Michigan Legislature http://www.legislature.mi.gov | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 978 Registered: 10-2003 |
Trying_2_Stay, Unfortunately you are wrong: Based on an independent study funded by the Gates Foundation, the Detroit school system graduates only one-fourth of its entering freshmen on time. The New York Times reported that an African-American male who drops out of high school faces a 72 percent unemployment rate in his 20s and a 60 percent possibility of going to jail by his mid-30s. Keeping your children in the Detroit Public Schools today it akin to a long, slow method of child abuse. You may want to consider looking at a good parochial school for your kids before its too late. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 1149 Registered: 02-2007 |
"Based on an independent study funded by the Gates Foundation, the Detroit school system graduates only one-fourth of its entering freshmen on time." This does not take into account students that transfer schools, leave the area, etc. It is a very flawed study | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 980 Registered: 10-2003 |
Really? I don't belive that it is a flawed study Rb336. What would you suggest is more accurate? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9783 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: What is more accurate is taking into account kids that start in 9th grade and continue in DPS or drop out. When families leave to other districts or kids transfer to another district, parochial school, charter it implies that they failed out of DPS according to this number. While the number may be accurate the perception and the way it is written implies that 75% of children that start 9th grade at DPS don't graduate. That is inaccurate - they may graduate from somewhere else, just not DPS. The study certainly skews to show better numbers for growing districts and worse for declining districts. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 982 Registered: 10-2003 |
Is there a more accurate number available somewhere? Or just conjecture by people on this forum? If not, I will use the unbiased numbers provided by Gates. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1803 Registered: 06-2006 |
Irish: Use whatever numbers you want. Just acknowledge the fact that 1/4 of DPS students graduating on time does not mean that 3/4 aren't graduating on time... Honestly. DPS is fucked up enough where you really don't need to add your spin if you wish to bash it. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9786 Registered: 10-2003 |
Agreed with tj. IM - I am not saying that DPS is not some wonderful district. There are a lot of problems but a decent number of successes. I don't think that the numbers paint the true situation. While still bad the truth is better than those numbers. It is akin to colleges tracking number of enrolled freshman that graduate in a specific period. Not graduating in the 4-5 years as tracked does not mean they never graduated. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 983 Registered: 10-2003 |
Guys, You are making suppositions based on your gut intinct... which may or may not be true. If there are more favorable numbers than those provided by Gates, you would think that the DPS, or some other interested party, would be able to provide them. Bottom line, save the children and get them out of there! | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9789 Registered: 10-2003 |
It is not gut instinct, it is the way the numbers are calculated. They take number of freshman and number of graduating seniors 4 years later, nothing more. Seeing as DPS is down 40,000 students in the last 5 or so years it is abundantly clear that the method used to determine the number does not adequately support the claim as it is being perceived. I don't think it is a dirty plan to cheap districts with the numbers, it is just lazy analysis. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1345 Registered: 04-2006 |
"If there are more favorable numbers than those provided by Gates, you would think that the DPS, or some other interested party, would be able to provide them." It's been discussed, ad nauseum, that the numbers by Gates count the mass exodus of students to charter schools as dropouts. So please, stop. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 624 Registered: 12-2006 |
You can't track the numbers accurately. Let's say John Smith enters DPS in 9th grade, then in 11th grade you don't see him anymore. Let's also say you are the DPS employee in charge of tracking what happened to John Smith. How do you propose to start? He may have dropped out, moved to Roseville, moved to Argentina, got hit by a bus and killed, or joined the Peace Corps. Now multiply John Smith by tens of thousands of kids. Do you propose DPS ought to pay dozens of people to try to hunt for all these kids and find out what happened to them? Absent that, you just have to take a datum like "1/4 of DPS students entering 9th grade will graduate on time" and understand what it means and what it doesn't mean. | ||
Pete Member Username: Pete Post Number: 87 Registered: 10-2003 |
The fucked up part is someone (Irish_mafia) accusing me of child abuse for sending my kid to DPS. And then giving me advice to find "a good parochial school before...it's too late". Too late for what? Too late before my kid might go on to Columbia? Or, God forbid, a lesser school like Michigan? It's parents and family values that create a community, and schools are reflective of that. Therefore, whether my kid has an opportunity to graduate on time has absolutely nothing to do with the school, and everything to do with me, my expectations, and the work ethic and values stressed while raising my child. It has nothing to do with some kind of 1 in 4 chance of graduating simply because my kid is in DPS. So you are absolutely ludicrous when you tell Trying_2_stay that he/she is wrong about her own child's chances of ending up in prison because of what school system they attend. Basically, you've written a bunch of condescending bullshit and insulted every person with a student in DPS. And you forgot the apostrophe in "its" - I'm not sure what school system that was a result of... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9790 Registered: 10-2003 |
Pete! Pete! Pete! | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 984 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ok, so Pete's out on the Parochial school idea. Good to hear you are involved with your kids and that you believe they have potential to get into a good university. Not sure where I left that apostophe...although between my parochial and public schools and MSU, I am sure that there are some disappointed priests, teachers, professors and 1 or 2 latin-educated relatives. In regards to insulting those that have kids in the DPS which is funded by my tax dollars: Until you pay for the education yourself, prepare to hear me tell you that the criminal institution called the Detroit Public Schools should be shut down. It is not safe. It is not good for children. It is a money pit for thieves. DPS continues to insult and rob those of us who fund it on a daily basis. Could I recommend a good charter school to you? | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 1246 Registered: 09-2006 |
I actually thought back when I was in high school that my chances of being killed in school were statistically much higher in the suburbs. I mean there are hate crimes, spree shootings, and Alt Rock so I felt much safer in my DPS high school and so far I have remained jail free and not only that I am months away from being a college graduate and my sister a DPS alum is heading to Michigan to the fall, so I guess we and the majority of my family and friends are exceptions. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 985 Registered: 10-2003 |
While statistically you still have another 8 years or so to end up in jail... it sounds like you are on the right path... good to hear it! By the way, we don't have hate crimes in the suburbs...that is a bizarre term that was invented to create double jeopardy, i.e. He killed the guy, so he got 10 years...but we suspect he hated the guy too so lets tack on another 20! Tell your sister that she can get thrown in the klink by the East Lansing cops if she tries to paint Sparty before the U of M game... so be careful. | ||
Trying_2_stay Member Username: Trying_2_stay Post Number: 18 Registered: 08-2007 |
Irish, Just so you know my children both attended the school for gifted and talented students in Detroit a DPS school and so far in the 2007 8th grade class all 150 graduated on time, the 2007 class that graduated in 2003 have now graduated from high school all 160 of them on time and all are going to colleges mostly in Michigan so I think Gate's numbers are crap. Not withstanding he is the reason one of the DPS schools is closing. He promised them if they let him start his technology program in this school the children would all get laptops, the teachers would get all the supplies they needed and it would be funded by him.....needless to say after parents (who were looking for better) put their children there, he pulled the plug, hope he added those numbers to his study. The numbers also don't say how students whose parents move their children to charter schools and 3 mos later move them back to DPS don't get counted because the money for that student already went to that charter school. And for the record.....I taught at a charter school.....without a teaching degree, and now I know why charter schools will take any student. These are the problem students that DPS is tired of babysitting! So when you tell me that I need to move mine there, I tell you that they have a better chance of getting shot or beating in one of those schools because the children with behavioral problems are there. And by the way my son went to Southeastern, graduated this year and is going to college this month, all thanks to DPS. | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 790 Registered: 10-2003 |
I have a number for the condescending twerp who calls himself Irish Mafia - the Terra Nova score of my DPS educated son. The number is 99 which indicates he has a better grasp of reading, writing and math than 99 percent of the public school children NATIONWIDE at his grade level who are required to take the same test. Or how about 96? That is the number for his older sister who also attends DPS. I will say this real slow for you so you can understand. It is the parents that are failing, not the school district. Irish Mafia is one of those fools that paints Detroit and all things related with a broad paint brush, and in the process misses the best that it has to offer. His loss...but don't accuse me of child abuse unless you have your damn facts straight...as opposed to quoting useless studies that don't take all the facts into consideration. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3708 Registered: 10-2004 |
Graduating on time practically anywhere in the US since the 1970s means next to nothing with (1) social promotion firmly in place universally and (2) the massive GPA inflation since then. Attendance and turning in paperwork somewhat on time (regardless of its graded merits) are the primary considerations given to graduation today. Anybody who believes otherwise is either terribly uninformed or is in serious denial of the facts. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1404 Registered: 10-2006 |
"Keeping your children in the Detroit Public Schools today it akin to a long, slow method of child abuse." I think that this is a widespread misconception of the DPS. I think that because Detroit is such a large school system that that actually works to the advantage of its students. Think of it this way: within Detroit Public Schools there are many opportunities that can't be granted on the other side of Eight Mile. There are more schools in DPS compared with being in just a small suburban school district where your option might only be able to choose within the 3 high schools within that district. DPS has the ability to have schools at different levels that students can specialize in whatever he or she may be interested in from Cass Tech to the new arts school, etc. Certainly there are schools that are not where you might want to send your child, but also within DPS there are many schools from which to choose with a rather wide selection of specialties. The best schools in Detroit are just as competitive with suburban ones, but offer even more options and programs. That's just my point of view based on my observations. If your child had the ambition to do something, seems it can be done in the DPS, and perhaps even arguably better. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3712 Registered: 10-2004 |
Considering DPS's very high dropout rate, it's not that difficult for the brighter kids to get into its three better high schools than it would be if it had a normal dropout rate. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 986 Registered: 10-2003 |
It is clear why your name is histeric. You apparently can't make a cogent argument without name calling. After your derisive comments, you forgot to bow down and thank me for the tax money that I paid to educate your very impressive child. Your welcome. I am glad that I was able to help send him down the right path. I just wish that I could have done it through an effective school system that could have helped so many other kids. Given the child's test scores, and your own challenges with communication, one might question how the child was able to score so well. Clearly the exception in the "parental influence toward success" model. Cheers. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 415 Registered: 11-2006 |
Irish it seems that your biggest misconception of the education system is that the school alone is in charge of educating children. This is not the case, schools are an important part of the education puzzle but they are not the sole providers for education. Far more important than what school one attends is the type of educational support they are getting at home. So I think your broad and sweeping statements about education need to be reassessed. The DPS or any school district can only do as good as parents will allow them to do. (Message edited by 6nois on August 12, 2007) | ||
Trying_2_stay Member Username: Trying_2_stay Post Number: 25 Registered: 08-2007 |
Livernois said: Considering DPS's very high dropout rate, it's not that difficult for the brighter kids to get into its three better high schools than it would be if it had a normal dropout rate. Where did you get that DPS only has 3 better schools. There are more than 3 but for some reason people only focus on those 3. My son went to one of those 3 and I took him out. They are better for some students but not for all. I found a DPS school which met the standards for the goals that he has in life. Southeastern has wonderful programs in technology and art. My son was in the Ford PAS program since he wants to do industrial and automotive design. This school is where he found what he needed. It also graduated 75% of its 12 graders each year sine the new principal got there and she has made it her business to get the students that drop out to continue and graduate through the second chance program and I can say that this year 20% of those that dropped out came back and graduated. And no, attendance and turning in paperwork on time was not how this school determined grades alone. As far as students being graduated based on turning in work on time and showing up only, that is a crock. My daughter has chronic asthma and missed a lot of school but she made up the work and her success in school was based on her test scores because if it was based on attendance she would not have advanced to the next grade or had a 4.0 or gotten into one of the 3 best schools. (Renaissance) Irish Mafia the small portion of your tax dollars alone did nothing for DPS, we all pay. So get off your high horse thinking you did us a favor. I have friends in the suburbs that complain about their schools too. How they have no options to move their children to schools that they believe would be better for their children because school assignment is based on the area they live in. So all of us have something to complain about when it comes to schools. I agree with 6nois that it isn't just the school system that is responsible for education our children or their behavior when they are there, it is up to parents too. When my child thought about acting up in school his father put the fear of GOD in him, now children aren't afraid of their parents, teachers or police since if you hit them now it's child abuse, or teachers can get sued. We have given children too much power and they know it. | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 791 Registered: 10-2003 |
With all due respect to the learned sage Irish Mafia, the exchange of unpleasantries began when he/she compared the enrolling of children in DPS to child abuse. Irish Mafia knew how personal an attack they were making and I would guess, received exactly the reaction they were looking for. How sanctimonious to feign indignity now. And I am prepared at any time to exchange the taxes I am forced to contribute to causes I don't believe in (i.e International entanglement including Iraq, War on Drugs, Capital Punishment) with the taxes you contribute to DPS. I suspect I will come out ahead in such an exchange. | ||
Oldestuff Member Username: Oldestuff Post Number: 34 Registered: 01-2007 |
Irish Mafia, it's you're welcome , not your welcome |
