  Dsmith Member Username: Dsmith Post Number: 123 Registered: 07-2005 |
Jt1, Yes. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 269 Registered: 11-2003 |
I've heard that exact verbiage said many times - it's a very common opinion amongst white folks (p.s., if you've met me, you know I'm about as white and slightly goofy as they come). Thing is, that this is no longer a "small town" thing. Troy, Rochester, etc. are not small towns. They are suburbs, through and through. Get out to Leonard (northeast corner of Oakland County), and THAT is a small town. Our region, now that I've experienced so much on both sides, is very racist - and it's all a large segment of people, white or black. When I volunteered on campaigns in the city, it was "f*** anyone past eight mile" by the black residents - and say things like "present company excepted, F*** white people" and when I am in business meetings, "f*** anyone below 8 mile, and 10 mile in Southfield." It's the same on both sides. I know for a fact from anonymous marketing studies we ran that as a city-only addressed company, I lost 40%-50% of proposals because it had "Detroit" on the location, and it would be immediately dismissed. And the number one reason they dismissed was "do not feel safe doing business there or with companies from there." I can't (and won't) release all the data as it's protected and private, but that snippet says a lot. I would be in meetings, and hear things like "well, you're just in Detroit because you must know someone, and not actually know how to do your job." Put Royal Oak or Troy on the letterhead - and I've tested folks - and it's a completely different reaction, almost every single time. So, as much as it pains me to say this, way back in the day when JoAnn Watson said there wasn't free trade between the city and suburbs, I thought she was nuts. I railed against her, probably on here somewhere and with concerned friends. Now I realize, with a heavy heart, she was 100% right. I was wrong. It's not codified, but it's the truth. p.s. - "Suicide Sidewalks." I love it.. I was falling out of my chair on that one. (Message edited by digitalvision on August 09, 2007) | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9678 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yes, the schools for the most part are pretty crappy (notably in Detroit)and crime is more prevelant (notably in Detroit). Most larger urban areas have similar issues but not to the extent that Detroit has. The city used to be the shining example for public schools. Now it is an example of what NOT to do. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1240 Registered: 07-2004 |
The stereotype is that cities chased people away. There are a few other "inducements" that aren't considered. The U.S. government Subsidized White People (GI Bill) Subsidized their flight from the city (US Interstate Program) Subsidized them buying their new homes (Mortgage interest deduction) Approved of industrial urban disinvestment (National defense plans to spread out factories to avoid crippling nuclear attack) Subsidized gasoline (U.S. Foreign Policy) And then stuck it to the powerless left behind (turning a blind eye to redlining, encouraging disinvestment, tacit endorsement of drug trafficking, etc.) Those people didn't have a fair choice whether to stay or go. It was made expensive to stay and cheap to go, if you were working, white and had money. I think the "stereotype" being referred to is you. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1335 Registered: 04-2006 |
Interesting thread. I personally don't know why someone would want to live past 16 Mile... unless you wanted to live in a small town... but I guess that's just me. And everything past the Palace is Flint. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9774 Registered: 10-2003 |
Great post digital. I wonder how many people will dismiss what you post as non-sense. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1448 Registered: 08-2006 |
With the slumping real estate market, I'm not sure this logic applies any longer. You can't justify a move north of 16 mile in the name of higher resale value. So if people are still saying it, it would be because? I've got relatives that love the cookie cutter drywall starter castle neighborhoods of northern Macomb / Oakland Co., who also love spending hours of thier weekly commute on under developed county roads, who think a nice meal out is the local Chili's on M 59, and having to buy water softeners so they can use well water to wash thier clothes is just dandy. I guess, not my thing. Sounds like most of us on this forum are of the same mind thankfully. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1606 Registered: 10-2003 |
For me anything North of 16 mile is called "vacation". | ||
Sg9018 Member Username: Sg9018 Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hybridy the the thread was not on skyscraperpage.com. The 16 mile road thread was on city-data forums. Below there is a link to the thread. You guys have to read some of the crazy/ridiculous posts on that thread. It is unbelievable and some of the posts are very shocking. Link-http://www.city-data.com/forum /detroit/97028-16-mile.html Also you guys shound read some more city-data detroit threads. Some as said before are ridiculous/unbelievable. link-http://www.city-data.com/forum /detroit/ | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1241 Registered: 07-2004 |
Ah the grateful spark of levity. Thanks, Johnlodge. | ||
Spaceboykelly Member Username: Spaceboykelly Post Number: 250 Registered: 04-2005 |
Detroitnerd, add the War Production Board to the list you've made. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 772 Registered: 05-2005 |
Some people prefer small towns to cities. But then they live near a city. And live in a small town. And then they would like to live in a small town, but shopping is so inconvenient. If only there were a shopping center. Even though there is plenty of shopping just a few exits away on the freeway, several shopping centers will be built nearby. And then the freeway expands to accommodate people shopping. And then more things get built up, as people stop for coffee (Starbucks) fast food (McD's, BK, etc.) gas (ExxonMobil, BP, etc.) and everything else (Sam's Club). Then, people have to live in low-income housing somewhere to work at Sam's Club or a gas station. And their children have to be educated, so you have to do a bond issue and build a huge, brand-new school. And then it's not the country anymore. It's suburbanized. Time to move away, uh, just a few more miles. And the whole freakin' thing starts ALL OVER AGAIN. So, some people just can't wrap their head around the idea that it's everybody's problem, that going to live in a "small town" doesn't boil down to preferences when you destroy the very thing you claim to love. ------------------------------ ----------------- ya know, not all small towns work that way. We are an hour from the freeway. We fought off having a Wal-mart, our city government and the people who live and vote here have choosen to keep big box stores OUT of our town We dont mind having no Starbucks, Home Depot, whatever in our town. We dont mind driving 20 min to Petoskey or 45 minutes to TC to shop at theirs. Our city government is commited to keeping the small town feel and ideals alive. Stop lumping all small towns into the same mold. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1778 Registered: 01-2004 |
Inst there a part of BigBeav that is called Maple Lane way out yonder ? If anybody listens to Deminski and Doyle, their producer Bill goes by the name "Beaver" because a long time ago they dressed him as a beaver and put him on a corner of Big Beaver somewhere asking people why it was named that. Actually I thin it was a squirrel costume cause they couldnt find a beaver.  beaver | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1056 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote: Blah, blah, blah,..... If you are looking for the source of real "inducements", you need not look any farther than the Detroit Water and Sewage Dept. The extension of water and sewer service by the DWSD beginning in the late 1950's to practically all of southeast Michigan is what has enabled the outlying townships, villages and cities to grow like they have. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 620 Registered: 12-2006 |
That's it, Mike. The freeways were another factor, but the massive extension by DWSD was a textbook example of "shooting yourself in the foot". It would have been massively expensive, perhaps prohibitively expensive, for communities to develop water and sewer systems on their own, and the few who have sport some of the highest rates in the state. Detroit enabled (for instance) Macomb Township and the M-59 corridor to be what they are, and at a huge cost to itself. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 215 Registered: 02-2007 |
^ & ^^ Amazing that they were able to do that. Most times I see them at work they make a mid-day siesta look lively in comparison. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 773 Registered: 05-2005 |
The extension of water and sewer service by the DWSD beginning in the late 1950's to practically all of southeast Michigan is what has enabled the outlying townships, villages and cities to grow like they have ------------------------------ ------------ most of the Northern Burbs have wells, they are not connected to Detroit water | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1614 Registered: 10-2003 |
But most of them do have sewer. Not that many septic fields out there nowadays, Cleo. | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 131 Registered: 08-2006 |
i doubt too many on this forum have grown up on a 83-acre farm milking cows and doing farm chores for the first half of their life. i grew up watching hundreds of acres gobbled up and then foolishly developed for profit. the almight supercenter came in to my modest town of 18,000 and closed one of the two grocery stores, put the axe in the super kmart, and killed our historic downtown. all so fat fucks with their suv's can eat at the new applebees. so when i got the chance i got out i came to detroit. talk about culture shock. its just foolish what we do with our resources. my parents bought out 83 acres in 1989 for 60,000 cash. if only half were developed and sold as 1/2 acre "cheap" lots. 60,000 a pop. well you can see the dollar signs. do my parents sell out for the fat white man and a new starbucks??? | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1057 Registered: 12-2005 |
DWSD Water System Coverage (shaded areas):  DWSD Sewer System Coverage (shaded areas):  [Source: DWSD web site] | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 774 Registered: 05-2005 |
I lived in Clinton Twp in 06, had well and septic. My BIL and nieces and nephews live in Romeo, Washington Twp, they have well and septic. My brother lives in Yale and has well and septic. Friends live in Almont, septic and well there too. Sometimes I think you guys rely too much on charts and statistics.......whats on paper doesnt always reflect the real reality of things. | ||
Defendbrooklyn Member Username: Defendbrooklyn Post Number: 395 Registered: 11-2005 |
nothing suburban past 16 is close to be cool. Detroit is a cool place Ferndale is pretty cool Royal Oak is ok (not my cup of tea) Birmingham...puke What else? | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 5700 Registered: 10-2003 |
Let's see 40 acres at 60 grand a pop per 1/2 acre = $4,800,000 and they still keep half the land and only paid $60,000 in 1989? Shit, I'd be talking to a Tax Attorney to minimize my liabilities at this moment. Sorry, about the cows. Hell, I'm a "lefty loon", but wave that kind of cash in front of me, it would be an easy decision to be a "whore". Does this help explain why "sprawl" happens? (Message edited by JamS on August 09, 2007) | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1059 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote: Those maps are labeled "System Coverage" and they represent the availability of DWSD water and sewer service that has been extended to those shaded communities over the past 70 years or so. They do not imply that every business or home in every shaded community uses the service. Individual homes that were built before the extension of DWSD water and/or sewer lines were not immediately compelled to connect to the system until such time as their well became contaminated or their septic field failed. Once DWSD sewer and/or water lines were extended to a community, they would usually prohibit well and septic permits for all new construction projects. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1373 Registered: 10-2006 |
Yes it does Jams. If sprawl weren't subsidized it would be less likely to happen. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1374 Registered: 10-2006 |
"Regions spend billions of dollars building infrastructure such as schools, freeways, and sewers, which add enormous value to outer-ring land. To the extent that these public expenditures serve to transfer value, they are wasted. Adding to this dysfunction, the infrastructure of new cities is often paid for by taxes and fees levied on residents and businesses in older parts of the region." Myron Orfield quoted in Metropolitics: A Regional Agenda for Community and Stability on p. 63 | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1773 Registered: 01-2005 |
My wife's sister and her family live in Romeo, which is up on 32 Mile Road. I don't think they even know there is a Detroit, much less how to get there. About as far south as they ever go is to Irma's Frozen Custard in Utica. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1617 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks Mikeg, I didn't realize. Where I lived near Commerce, we had no city water, but we did have sewers and storm drains. | ||
Dustin89 Member Username: Dustin89 Post Number: 103 Registered: 07-2006 |
I've heard someone call M-59 the "great dividing line" between rich and poor before. I had to control myself to prevent a horrible, violent spasm from overtaking me. Yesterday I stumbled onto this City Data forum thing for the first time; there is also a thread in there about "the worst area in Detroit" that has some appalling comments on it. It's often difficult to read this kind of ignorance without barking at the computer screen. | ||
Dustin89 Member Username: Dustin89 Post Number: 104 Registered: 07-2006 |
I just made the mistake of looking at a few City Data threads. The thread about Pontiac is ridiculous--various people who work there asking what roads are safe to drive, LOL. I had to click out of it once I saw the sentence describing Pontiac as being "not like Beirut, exactly." Excuse me-I have to go gnash my teeth. |
