  Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1783 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hey y'all - Im looking for forumers who used to hang out downtown back in the day: 1950's early 1960's. Around Sanders, Hudson's etc. in the Campus Martius area. Question is this; I know we use the proper name for Campus Martius now - and I know it was used before the above mentioned time period. But did people during the 50's and 60's commonly refer to the Campus by name ? My mother and some other family who worked and hung out right there SWEAR it wasnt called Campus Martius, and say they never ever heard the name until the recent renovation. True ? I say it was always called Campus Martius, but I wasnt there so that could be an assumption. Did the name fall out of usage for a generation or two ? Help me win this argument, or let me know if I need to go back and tell my people that they are correct. | ||
Newport1128 Member Username: Newport1128 Post Number: 103 Registered: 05-2007 |
The name Campus Martius goes back to the very early days of the city, when there were still worries about hostile Indians, and conflicts with Great Britain and Canada. The term itself is Latin, meaning "Field of Mars". Mars was the Roman god of war. This area was used as a drill field and campground for the local militia and the U.S. Army whenever it had troops stationed in Detroit. There they would practice marching and other manuevers, hence the reference to the god of war. The first Campus Martius was in the ancient city of Rome, where Roman soldiers would drill. Going back to the 1960's, which is about as far back as I can remember, it was still called Campus Martius. | ||
Yaktown Member Username: Yaktown Post Number: 205 Registered: 02-2006 |
Can someone clear up something for me regarding the pronunciation? Is it pronounced Mar-shis or Mar-tee-us? I know the media uses the Mar-shis but I think they're wrong. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 239 Registered: 02-2007 |
I never heard the name until recently. Never remember any reference to it in the news etc., going back to the 60's. Until just recently. It was probably a name that was largely forgotten with the development of the city. And now with the new developments, the name has resurfaced and been made popular. That really goes for all these "districts" that everyone talks about on here. "Midtown" etc. Never heard them used at all until I seen them on this forum. What I recall when someone pinpointed an area it was for instance, "Over by the Davison-John R area" Or "thats the old such and such area" but nobody called it that. It was all just the "inner-city". Thats how I remember it. | ||
Rfban Member Username: Rfban Post Number: 152 Registered: 02-2004 |
I think the answer to your original post is just simply "Cadillac Square." My mother as well, never heard of Campus Martius. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1123 Registered: 11-2003 |
Campus Martius is adjacent to, but not technically the same as, Cadillac Square. It may be that "Cadillac Square" eventually referred to the whole general area. Frank Angelo (veteran Free Press reporter) mentioned "Campus Martius" in photo captions at least three times in his book "Yesterday's Detroit," published in 1974. | ||
Newport1128 Member Username: Newport1128 Post Number: 104 Registered: 05-2007 |
Yaktown, it's pronounced "marsh-us". The original Latin would have been "mar-tee-us", but we usually follow the British tradition for pronouncing Latin words. Other examples are the way we pronounce "partial" and "martial". Gee, I guess 3 years of Latin in high school and two in college are finally paying off. Mirabile dictu! | ||
Jasoncw Member Username: Jasoncw Post Number: 419 Registered: 07-2005 |
My parents said the same thing. I'm guessing because it was just an intersection with with some statues in it, no one had any reason to call it by name and people just didn't know about it. | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 250 Registered: 03-2007 |
I was in the downtown area a lot in the late '50's-late '60's...we generally identified the area as Cadillac Square...but we certainly also knew the name Campus Martius...it seems that my parents (he was DPD 1924-1950)...who would have been around downtown in the '20's & 30's used the term Campus Martius more often. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1248 Registered: 07-2004 |
Cadillac Square was considered the heart of the city, and was better known as such even 20 years ago, I think. Used to be if you wanted directions to Detroit, Google would direct you to Cadillac Square. Don't know if that's default downtown anymore, though. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1785 Registered: 01-2004 |
Thanks Newport - I know the history of the name and area (its also the Point of Origination for laying out the city design) My mother also recalls Cadillac Square, but still didnt refer to the CM area as anything other than "where Hudsons was". She worked in the Penobscot building, and so did my motherinlaw. Curious what Lowell thinks on this one. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3550 Registered: 02-2005 |
Ave atque salve, Newport1128. Detroit progredibit excelsior! You are correct regarding the English pronunciation. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1781 Registered: 01-2005 |
It was always Campus Martius to me, going back to the forties. The exact boundaries were, perhaps, vague, but that was always the term we used. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 861 Registered: 01-2005 |
I came to Detroit in 1956, practiced law downtown for quite a while, bought downtown Detroit real estate, and never heard the area referred to as Campus Martius until recently. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 5739 Registered: 10-2003 |
Campus Martius was named in honor of the Ohio Militia from Marietta, the Northwest Territorial capital, following the War of 1812. | ||
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone Post Number: 123 Registered: 03-2007 |
What 3rdworld said... I worked downtown in the Lafayette Building for six years from'74 to '81. Never heard the term Campus Martius...only Cadillac Square. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1787 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hm...Lookin like Ill be eating crow next time I see the fam. Pretty interesting tho. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3557 Registered: 02-2005 |
Jams, what do you mean? The words campus martius has nothing to do with a militia from Ohio. If that militia was the first one to use those grounds for their base or marching or whatever, then I see the connection. | ||
Karl_jr Member Username: Karl_jr Post Number: 63 Registered: 06-2007 |
I think the name was kind of was kicked to the curb when the old city hall (?) was replaced by Kennedy Square. | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3419 Registered: 10-2003 |
My parents were born in 1919/1920 and they never used the term. I think Jams is partially correct that the name comes from Marietta, but it was applied to the square before the War of 1812, maybe even before Judge Woodward's plan of 1806. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1413 Registered: 10-2006 |
Honestly I thought that Jams was just messin' around and kidding, but seems that people are taking this former seriously. Anyway, 'tis labeled "Campus Martius" on the 1807 Woodward plan. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1414 Registered: 10-2006 |
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi kipedia/en/4/47/Old_map_1807_p lan.jpg | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3560 Registered: 02-2005 |
^^Yeah. Mauser just needs to tell his family members that the Woodward plan trumps all and the 60s must have been wacky. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1416 Registered: 10-2006 |
LOL, true. Question now is if that image of the 1807 map is truly from 1807 or was that map done at some point later as a 'recreation?' | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3421 Registered: 10-2003 |
The square was there before the plan. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 5741 Registered: 10-2003 |
"History of Campus Martius In 1788, Campus Martius served as a drill ground for militia training. Campus Martius means “military ground” and was named after the Campus Martius at Marietta, Ohio, a 180-foot stockade. After the fire of 1805, Judge Woodward was appointed to oversee the plan to lay out the streets, squares and lots with the assistance of the best surveyors from Canada. They placed their instruments and astronomical devices on the summit of a huge stone. He viewed the planets and meteors in order to determine “true North”. Today we still call this point the “Point of Origin” which is located in center of Campus Martius at the junction of Woodward and Monroe. It is from this point that the City of Detroit’s Coordinate system was created." http://www.campusmartiuspark.o rg/history.htm | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 5742 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't question that the square was there, I do question the date the square was named. In 1788 Detroit was still held by the British. Not until 1796 did Detroit officially become part of the United States, so it is very unlikely the name Campus Martius would have been used at that point. With the onset of the War of 1812, a contingent of volunteer Ohio militia under the command of General William Hull (Lewis Cass was a Colonel in that command) left Campus Martius at Marietta to defend Detroit. Hull surrendered Detroit without firing a shot. This angered the Ohio militia to almost the point of mutiny. They were taken prisoner, many succumbed to Cholera, others were later freed in prisoner exchanges and joining General Harrison's Army. I'd submit the term Campus Martius was applied to the field, post-War of 1812 to honor those Ohio volunteers. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2423 Registered: 10-2003 |
Most of the references I've seen for Campus Martius note that the area in question is generally the intersection of Woodward Avenue and Michigan Avenue, not to the east of Woodward where Cadillac Square is. I grew up in the late 60s and early 70s and always knew about Campus Martius. Yes, it probably went by the wayside when Kennedy Square came into the picture, but in my family, Campus Martius was definitely a known reference point. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3562 Registered: 02-2005 |
Good historical scrutiny, Jams. So there was already a campus martius in Marietta...but do you think this was a more common term for marching grounds during that period of time in other areas, and it just happened to stick here? Arghh I just hate to have to admit any ties to Ohio. Then again, it was all the NW Territory then. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9843 Registered: 12-2003 |
We always referred to Kennedy Square. I'd bet if we look into it, reference over these last two generations to this area will probably fall into Campus Martius for the pro-military and Kennedy Square for the anti-war folk...which are not necessarily always at odds with one another. Curious trend I was spotting. I'd never heard of a Campus Martius until they built the new park. |
