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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 909
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

.....after the D.S.R. was formed, the Detroit United Railways reorganized as the Eastern Michigan Railway, the interurban operating along Woodward Avenue next to the Grand Trunk Western north of 11 Mile Road. In previous threads it's noted that the GTW relocated to its present ROW in 1931, pending a widening of North
Woodward in Royal Oak.

I don't have a copy of "Detroit Street Railways" Vol. 2 by the CERA so I can't really look it up, but websites indicate the EMR quit their Flint line (the one in question) in 1931, and pretty much went to busses totally in 1934, the D.S.R. operating trolleys through to Royal Oak until '47 when it cut back to the Fairgrounds loop at 8 Mile Road.

I understand Eastern Michigan Railways was not in the best of financial shape, but was it the same Woodward widening project that put the nail in the interurban's coffin?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 3740
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interurbans were suffering financially well before the 1930s, especially after inexpensive cars became available. Some interurbans curtailed their service before the 1930s.

Check the timeline at michiganrailroads.com for any info there.
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 910
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Didn't have it there, Livernoisyard. I've got the date of abandonment, I don't have the actual "why", and I was wondering if the Woodward widening forced the EMR to abandon the line.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 633
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That may have been one straw among many, but line after line was being abandoned during that time.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 3433
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Douglasm, here are a few paragraphs from Volume III of the series which covers the interurban operations. First, a summary of conditions from the first chapter:

quote:

Financial Problems for the DUR

"In the mid-1920s Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb Counties developed a unified road plan with "divided highway" style roads radiating out from Detroit incorporating space for rapid transit. It was this space the state expected the interurban company to utilize for a right-of-way, but without any state aid for relocation. The interurban company was caught in a Catch-22 position. The highway system needed more land to widen and improve the roads. Therefore, the interurban company was told to move from the highway right-of-way or to relocate in the center of the boulevard type highways, but it typically lacked the cash to pay for the relocation of the rails. The alternative was to sell out to the state and county road commissions and convert to a bus operation. And so, new all-weather concrete highways were built competing with the DUR's many miles of remaining interurban track.

"In reviewing the newspaper clippings of the late 1920s the reader notes the continual harassment of the interurban companies over maintenance of right-of-ways, and the communities' consistent refusal to allow fare increases to cover increased costs of rail operation. At the same time, bus lines were able to charge higher fares without any problem even though they used the public highways at almost no cost for right-of-way.

"The struggle to survive intensified as the interurban company started to compete with motor trucks. Freight service was expanded, and new equipment was purchased or built. Bus competition thrived, since the state of Michigan had a policy to encourage this new industry. Motor coach operation started in 1919 after the paving of Gratiot Avenue from Detroit to Mt. Clemens and Woodward Avenue from Detroit to Pontiac. Bus companies received "certificates of convenience and necessity," which amounted to franchises. Supported by a ruling of the Michigan Supreme Court, the commission had to ignore the service of existing steam and electric lines in determining public convenience and necessity in connection with the granting of permits. However, existing bus routes were taken into consideration in passing on an application for a second line on the same route. This forced the DUR to buy out many small bus operators to retain control of routes since much of their track was along the side of the highways."



A photo caption showing the newly widened Woodward had this to say:

quote:

"The Pontiac Division suffered a heavy enough blow with the first paving of Woodward to Pontiac [1917]. But, it became a fatal blow when, in [1925], the road was widened to an eight-lane highway. The interurban company had to bear the expense of moving its track solely for the convenience of highway users.




And some excerpts from the chapter on the Pontiac Division:

quote:

"Eastern Michigan Railways

The Pontiac city franchise expired in 1926 compelling the DUR to operate on a day-to-day extension. Pontiac had wanted the removal of the third track on Saginaw Street for years. So now, with the franchise expired and plans to repave Saginaw, the city forced the company to remove the track. This project cost the financially strapped DUR between $100,000 and $125,000 plus costly service interruptions. Work was started in 1927 and finished with a large parade with all types of equipment including interurbans, city cars, buses, and an electric locomotive towing a freight car. Ironically, within a very few years all this new 100-lb. rail would be abandoned.

End of Service

Service was trimmed as the number of revenue passengers declined and as equipment began to wear out. By February 23, 1931, the schedule was slashed to only eight daily runs; five trips in the morning and three in the afternoon.

Still unable to cover the cost of operating rail service, the Eastern Michigan Railways ordered the end of service on the Pontiac, Flint, and Toledo divisions...At midnight, April 25, 1931, all passenger service to Pontiac and Flint ceased. However, part of the trackage on Woodward from Eight Mile Road to Royal Oak was saved from the salvage crews. This track was purchased by the city of Royal Oak and leased to the Detroit Department of Street Railways for the operation of cars to Royal Oak.



Hope that helps!
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 3741
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The best advice I could give is to post your question(s) on the michiganrailroads.com forum relating to history. There are a number (four or five?) of fora there, so get on the correct one. The others relate to current events and tracking down trains, short lines, etc.

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