Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2007 » What do you think of urban farming in Detroit? « Previous Next »
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Margaret
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Username: Margaret

Post Number: 58
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

is anyone on this forum familiar with the organization "Sustainable Detroit?" I would love to hear opinions about what this group is doing there. on the group's website, sustainabledetroit.org, part of the "inspiration" introduction is this:

"Detroit once swept the world as a model for the prosperous industrial city. Now it symbolizes the degradation of the Rust Belt. Sustainable Detroit recognizes that we are in a post-industrial era and must redefine ourselves to bring forth the city of the future. We must take a holistic approach to development, incorporating land planning, social needs, community health, regional resources, food, housing, jobs, art and more."

thoughts, anyone? do you think Detroit could use more urban farms or market gardens or truck farms, for example? I mean in the city proper, not the suburbs...
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 1848
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1257
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are some people working on this sort of vision, including the "Adamah Project". They were written up in a Metro Times article on "radical ideas for saving Detroit" or something.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 521
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

why laugh, the jesus?

i have volunteered and visited urban farm Catherine Fergusen Academy, and i find it very inspiring. it is an urban farm with goats, horses, sheep, chickens, rabbits, ducks, and a multitude of crops - harvests available at eastern market. It is also a high school for single mothers or pregnant teenagers, and includes daycare. the basic ideas behind the farm there are not only to teach the women to be self sufficient, but to pass on life skills including everything from growing your own food to construction, to plumbing, and they also want to instill the waldorfian ideals of reconnecting with nature... it is this kind of creative thinking that will save detroit schools, if anything does. as far as I know, detroit invented urban farming...

(Message edited by andylinn on August 15, 2007)
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 2313
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.modeldmedia.com/fea tures/farms10507.aspx

Modeld. has more articles on this topic. Do a search.

Opinions- it's a great idea. Food for people and making use of empty land. What's not to like?


(Message edited by Pam on August 15, 2007)
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 1181
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am wondering; say I had an urban farm in Detroit, can hook up a fire hose to the nearest fire hydrant and water my crops with it, provided there is no fire in the neighborhood?
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 9848
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We've had discussions on this before, I'm all for it...but came to understand that some feel very strongly that to live near that much honest nature is a step backward from their expected urban experience.

I think every inch of available land that the city currently has to mow should be available for local farming...both for personal and public/corporate/co-op consumption.

The chicken coops, cow barns, and other livestock need to be much more regulated than gardens...but should be allowed into the zoning scheme somehow.

I would LOVE for Detroit to attain a level of sustainability as outside corporate control as possible...freedom through our food supply is one very big step.

Plus, it could put a bunch of people to work...locally.

I heard a story about locally grown grapes and wine making recently on WDET, too. That sounded interesting...we have the ability to use a resource that has always been part of the city's legacy. Black bottom, indeed!
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 9849
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quozl,

It's like handicapped parking spaces...anything you wouldn't do with a nice officer of the law sitting there watching you is probably off limits.

You got me on another potential need for this market, though. Water supply.

Heh, no real reason why a water meter couldn't be hooked up to the property in question...or one shared between multiple properties in a co-op.

The land should be leased from the city for some nominal rate, and the water bill could always be paid in advance.
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Russix
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Username: Russix

Post Number: 37
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Legalize Marijuana, and Detroit will become the US's top agriculture producer.
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Pmb
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Username: Pmb

Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Check out www.detroitagriculture.org

Or, stop by Spirit of Hope (the old Trinity Episcopal Church on Trumbull and Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd.) on Wednesday evenings and Saturday mornings. We are building a 3-lot urban farm next to the playground. The idea is teaching skills for food sustainablity, working with your hands, etc. Also, it cleans up the land. Not sure the whole city should be a big farm, but small plots help us when things like bridges collapse (MN) or hurricanes hit our food sources (Katrina) that there are other places our food can come from, namely, ourselves!

Read more about it at www.myspace.com/spirit_of_hope
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1258
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's true: Urban farming in Detroit goes back to the days of Mayor Hazen S. "Potato Patch" Pingree in the 1890s.
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Dave
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Username: Dave

Post Number: 154
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have no problem with urban farming in Detroit. I worry that there is too much talk of commercial ventures. I think the best immediate step would be for the groups that are working on it to help people realize that it takes very little space and time to supplement your food budget with stuff thats better tasting and cheaper than what you can get at Kroger's. It would be nice if someone campaigned for zoning variances that would allow you to have a small egg or chicken operation in the vacant lot that you rent next door. I don't know what zoning ordinances are about animals in Detroit. In my town you are allowed to have three pets. Of course they meant cats and dogs, but if I have 3 dairy goats it would supply most of my milk and cheese. and whose to say they're not my pets?
dave
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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 1443
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mmm...nothing tastes sweeter than a Detroit Brownfield Potato. Now with Mercury!
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6nois
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Username: 6nois

Post Number: 420
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have no real issue with plant farms, but cows, goats, chickens and roosters, I could live with out. The animals smell, and are noisy, roosters are the worst, which my friend in Saginaw can agree with.
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Mackcreative
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Username: Mackcreative

Post Number: 83
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it's a great direction for the city, good use of Detroit's unique situation, and beneficial considering the prospects of climate change and the peak of global oil.

We rarely hear the roosters near us.

Pmb: Your projects sound incredible! Let me know if you'd like some help with PR.
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Raptor56
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Username: Raptor56

Post Number: 35
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Detroitnerd for refreshing my memory. I read about Pingree's Potato Patches in a book some time ago, but couldn't remember the good mayor's name. Hazen Pingree started one of the first major public works initiatives to get Detroit through the Depression of 1893. He auctioned off his prize racing horse, took up special collections at Church and petitioned vacant land owners to allow Detroit's unemployed to farm on vacant city land. thus providing income assistance until the Depression was over. Hazen even used his own front yard for cultivation.

http://info.detnews.com/histor y/story/index.cfm?id=175&categ ory=people (about halfway down the page)
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1259
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^My pleasure. Pingree is consistently judged by historians to be among the best municipal leaders in American history. And that's no joke.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 1304
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A bad idea that I wish people would stop taking seriously. Detroit is a city. A city that is in the beginning phases of a glorious comeback that will see all of the abandoned land you would use for farming occupied. I don’t even get how people could even remotely believe that this would work.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1260
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Except during WWII. For some reason, neighborhood gardening, recycling, etc., were all A-OK then. But not now. Or ever again.

Whatever...
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Raptor56
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Username: Raptor56

Post Number: 39
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, if you own a plot of land, you pay taxes on it, and you want to build a half acre garden in the city, why not? You'll never turn the whole city into tracks of soy beans, but a big vege garden here and there would be kind of cool. Can be a bit of a community builder.
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Pmb
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Username: Pmb

Post Number: 7
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mac,
We would love all the help we can get, esp. PR! Send us a message on our myspace.com/spirit_of_hope
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 231
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 6:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Mayor_Sekou,
1920 is calling. You'd better answer it and tell them that we refuse to progress as a society for want of more concrete jungles. Or better yet, let's all get together and form an asphalt society of detroit. We will advocate to pave over every square inch of metro-detroit with impermeable surface all to be collected in storm drains, complete with all of the toxins that make their way onto parking lots and roofs and ship it straight out to the Detroit river!
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 232
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who needs a water supply?
In Michigan, if you have enough acreage to farm, you have enough acreage to locally harvest all the water you would need for a season. To hell with the City water supply.
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 412
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mayor,

What are you growing?
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 1306
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I fail to see how degrading land in a inner city to farmland can be called progress. And so what cities happen to have a lot of asphalt and pollution that is why they are cities. If you want blue skies and sunshine perhaps you would be best served in a rural area. If anything Detroit isn't urban enough.

Now I don’t mind a community level garden here or there, in fact I have even planted some in the past. But acres of farmland? No. That would be complete waste of time and money and not to mention space.
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Davetroit
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Username: Davetroit

Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that urban farming is an excellent way to utilize the vast amount of vacant land in the city. However, one concern that I have would be the potential for contaminants in the soil. I think that most of this concept focuses around residential land - the vacant lot next door. Most likely, this type of property is pretty clean, but with the frequent practice in the past of demolishing homes into the basement, and pushing dirt over the top, combined with the potential for run off from adjacent industrial land, you never know.
I'm sure that there are some local environmental consultants that would be willing to provide low cost Phase I assessments (research and visual inspection) for communities in conjunction with groups like Sustainable Detroit.
I recently had some discussion with a developer in regard to a fairly large piece of industrial land, know to have some contaminants as it was formerly a rail yard. The thought was to potentially grow corn to be used in ethanol. This would put the land to a productive use, and provide some income until there was a market for a residential redevelopment and complete cleanup several years down the road. I thought that this was an interesting idea, and wonder if anyone knows the standards for growing corn to be used as fuel.
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Terryh
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Username: Terryh

Post Number: 447
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its a shame so many Americans are gorging themselves on Junk food and assorted processed garbage. Poor diet is turning many Americans into lethargic dopes who care more about xbox and American idol than taking care of themselves and their natural environment. Urban farming, I would think, would be a great learning experience for the youth of the city as well as sparking an interest in natural healthy foods. More power to them.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1080
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

What do you think of urban farming in Detroit?



Urban farming - ridiculous!
Urban gardening - a nice hobby!

To use land that is already zoned and taxed at the higher residential, commercial and/or industrial land use levels for large-scale agricultural purposes does not make economic sense. I suppose you might try to request rezoning of the parcels to an Agriculture classification, but I doubt that the Detroit City Planning Commission will agree that the highest and best use of that land is "agriculture".
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 263
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think this is a great idea. The small gardens would be a nice contrast to the city feel.

For those of you who take this to mean Iowa type farming, she meant "truck farm" think big garden.

It would be a great way to immediately use vacant lands and make it look to visitors there is at least something happening, someone cares about this ground instead of an unkept tract of what was with still visible driveways and whatever else.

Mayor I'm surprised you wouldn't be for something this utilitarian, inexpensive, ecologically responsible and proactive.

It's nothing permanent, its just a practical way to use the land right now. And it would probably be good for the community as well.

Ford just spent a kabillion dollars putting grass on the roof of the new F150 plant and they received much recognition and a positive response from the media.
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Davetroit
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Username: Davetroit

Post Number: 11
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mayor and Mikeg: I don't think that agriculture is the highest and best use of land in Detroit either. The fact remains that with thousands of acres of the city vacant, it will be many years until some of these lots are developed into their highest and best use. Once the time comes when there is the demand to build on these parcels, a community garden or even a larger scale "farm" will not provide much of a barrier.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 1309
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Small scale, garden type farming is cool. I object to large scale farming that consumes acres of land done for economic gain within the city limits. Thats not practical.

I used to plant small scale habitats and trees in my days with the Greening of Detroit and back then I thought it was cool because they understood that Detroit is a city first and foremost. As long as these urban farmers realize that fact then there should be no problem.
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 237
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think therein lies the miscommunication. When i think of 'Urban Farming' (should probably look up the definition here) i think of small community oriented sites. I do not advocate wholesale rezoning of hundreds of acres into agricultural land unless it can be justified economically.

For instance, the big trend over the past twenty years has been to masterplan communities around golf courses. If large tracts of land were rezoned agricultural, it would have to follow the same community bylaws. It would work best on a larger scale (18 hole size) if there were a much higher density than the single family resort style communities typically centered around golf courses.

If geared towards single family, then a put-put size with go-carts would probably serve the needs.

Urban farming implies a collaboration and shared stakes in the farm, not some major food conglomerate. Management of the farm/ garden would ultimately be decided by the neighborhood association...If we're talking about a larger scale.

On a smaller scale urban farm, it makes perfect sense to have parcel size lots used for whatever purposes the owner of the lots want. It would be beneficial however, for the City to be lax on it's business licenses for local, parcel size growers to be able to market their wares.

Given the immigrant population, this system would help alot of people as those of us that own a vacant property could let immigrants tend the crops and receive a majority of the profits. Not to mention the appeal of seasonal housing (an untapped market in Detroit) as a profit base for land owners.
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 46
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why not? There are still small-time agricultural operations in Livonia (Turkey farm), Southfield (produce stands) and other places you wouldn't expect to see anything but strip malls and industrial parks.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1261
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off. On and Off. All day, all night. Soon where [INSERT COMMUNITY HERE] once stood will be a string of gas stations. Inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food, tire salons, automobile dealerships, and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it’ll be beautiful.

-Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
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Oakmangirl
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Username: Oakmangirl

Post Number: 52
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jb3,

I like your idea of small scale community sites. If we were to have farming on a large scale (we're talking utopia here), I assume it would be organic? We don't need any more chemicals in our rivers or lakes, and the air is already polluted enough. It's that on/off expressway.

Maybe Council would be sold on the farming idea if a casino were part of the deal?
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1262
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seriously, in New York City, there were plenty of urban gardens in the poor parts of town. In the Bowery, Alphabet City and the Lower East Side in the 1990s, vacant lots would be "appropriated" by community groups or even squatters. Some of the spaces they created were beautiful. And there was variety. Some were simply pleasant oases, others were truck gardens, with plots of land tilled by local yokels. Some would have a gazebo or a stage and host community events. Some might even have had a chicken or two.

And then, after a point, the land became more valuable than the garden. Deals were cut to "develop" the gardens into "mixed-income" housing. Actually, after the bulldozers were called in, the neighborhood soon saw that it was actually luxury housing, and that they couldn't afford the neighborhood anymore.

Calm your itching fingers: This is not nec. a debate over gentrification. I'll just say this: It seems that land becoming a community garden is perhaps one potential part of the life cycle of a plot of American urban real estate. The thing is, when people fight over real estate, money always wins. When property becomes worthless, the people can take it and make something wonderful. But when it becomes priceless, the powerful prize it away, calling in the bulldozers and putting up more frosted glass and track lighting.
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Fishtoes2000
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Username: Fishtoes2000

Post Number: 267
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PMB -- Are you involved with the little urban farm on Cochrane near Perry? I enjoy biking down there now and then to visit the goats.
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Tkshreve
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Username: Tkshreve

Post Number: 132
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I have no real issue with plant farms, but cows, goats, chickens and roosters, I could live with out. The animals smell, and are noisy, roosters are the worst, which my friend in Saginaw can agree with."

Yeah, with that said, I completely prefer the current sounds, smells and sights that Detroit has to offer on a consistent basis.


"A bad idea that I wish people would stop taking seriously. Detroit is a city. A city that is in the beginning phases of a glorious comeback that will see all of the abandoned land you would use for farming occupied. I don’t even get how people could even remotely believe that this would work."

As someone suggested earlier, future construction on these farming sites would be easy as cake compared to demolishing current sites directly for construction. Furthermore, some of the agricultural companies could probably spend extra money or receive extra funding to consolidate and clear lots for farming. Then those areas are ready for whatever comes their way in the future, because CoD's "master plan" is not happening as fast as you suggest it is.

As of now, developers look for the easiest way to build which excludes clearing lots and demolishing older structures. Their are a lot of future good things that could be tied into agricultural development within the city limits on top of aesthetic purposes.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I planted a garden and had my tomato plants stolen. Not just the tomatoes, the entire plants!

jeeze, they weren't even very good looking plants.

Hence, city farming will require real security, but then I guess that leds to a central issue. The citizens aren't secure, so how can we expect to protect plants?
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1263
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ A citizens' tomato militia, well-regulated, to protect our crops.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 9860
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think council should pass a law that ALL Genetically Modified crops need be grown within sealed-ecology greenhouses. Not to protect the plants, but rather US from them.


As for the organically-grown legacy plant security?

Security will indeed be an issue, moreso after food prices peak wildly on the gasoline increases...remember the multiplier effect that most of the common pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers are cheap-oil-based products. When oil peaks, ALL of these variables will simultaneously increase sharply...exponentially exponential, as it were.

They will NOT be cheap forever...the multiplying effect on our food supply might end up prohibitive to concurrent nutritional and economic health.

So, plans would include centrally-located groups, or tribes, with common security and water sources...mebbe even shared capital investments like tractors and mini-silos.


I can see it all from here...
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Oakmangirl
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Username: Oakmangirl

Post Number: 54
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tomato Militia? It might improve the economy. Instead, I say we breed giant killer chickens.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1264
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's why you should run for mayor, Oakmangirl: You think BIG!
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Margaret
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Username: Margaret

Post Number: 60
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL, Oakmangirl.

thanks, everyone, for your insights. I love the visions on here, from killer chickens to nurtured neighborhood vacant lots.

many congratulations, Pmb, on your Spirit of Hope project! I'm going to go see that web site...that is precisely what I was getting at, Pmb: teaching skills, a more balanced lifestyle hopefully, plus I know that for me getting my hands in the dirt and growing things has always been tremendously therapeutic. also would be good for the environment, yes.

Andylinn, thanks for mentioning that academy. what a perfect way to help those girls! I love it!

Thejesus, you never explained your "LOL" at the top of this thread. (talk about a giant chicken LMAO)

Detroitnerd, that is so cool about the 1890s. I didn't know about that...why oh why can't Detroit get a municipal leader like Pingree NOW? we could start a "Detroitnerd for Mayor" movement, what do you say?

and again, Oakmangirl, LOL: how about huge crazy casinos with mammoth organic gardens in the back? decorative landscaping around casino buildings with cabbages, greens, corn, and so on interspersed among the more typical landscaping plants? casinos with rooftop raised beds!

Jb3, right on, thanks.

Davetroit, I love the corn as fuel idea...that would make perfect sense in so many ways.

Terryh: exactly!

Sstashmoo, thanks once again for helping.

I personally believe that BALANCE is the answer to so many of life's problems: yes of course Detroit is a city, but why not have a creative, different sort of city? why not help BALANCE the landscape, the people, the lifestyles, the health, in the city, with market gardens/large gardens/truck farms? and yes, most certainly, with climate change and oil peaks, all the more reason to open our "urban" minds to these possibilities.

the security issue is a huge one, I know. no answers there, except maybe barbed wire and electric fencing...but, if the thug types were somehow involved, and worked their asses off growing things, if they had themselves invested in a garden, perhaps that would be the best kind of security in addition to all the other benefits...that's probably naive I realize, but could be worth a try. you never know.
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Margaret
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Username: Margaret

Post Number: 61
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL, Detroitnerd: oh, it's Oakmangirl we need for mayor? ok, if you support Oakmangirl for mayor, so do I! :-)
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Dave
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Username: Dave

Post Number: 155
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Live in an apartment with a balcony? Next spring buy a two gallon pot, bag of potting soil. and a grape tomato plant. Because it is sitting out there on the balcony, you will have to check to see if it needs some water pretty much everyday but you will have salad tomatoes all summer that will be better and much cheaper than what you can buy and will have made Detroit a better place.
dave
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Pmb
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Username: Pmb

Post Number: 11
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am familiar with the garden on Cochrane and Perry, thanks Margaret, and there are many others in the neighborhood. It is a great place to be!

As to the soil issues, planting things like sunflowers and mustard greens clean the soil from a lot of toxic materials (don't eat the greens the first time you grow them tho!). In addition, many of the gardens are raised beds that allow for planting on new soil above the potentially hazardous. Finally, Greening of Detroit will do a soil test on city properties where gardens/farms are planned, free of charge! (I am just learning all of this.)

I agree, 100 acre farms are not ideal for Detroit, but we can also think larger scale than a small corner of a residential lot. Some areas are making room for several lots at a time. In every case I know of, it is uncontested land where nothing is happening. In other words, to my knowledge there are no urban gardens/farms blocking the building of a new casino hotel or Red Wings arena. (oops, hope I didn't start a rumor!)
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gosh Dave, great idea, now all I have to do is find someone to buy my house, sell all the stuff that won't fit in and apartment just so I can grow some grape tomatoes on my 8 x 6 foot balcony.

Good idea. thanx
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4811
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, but how does one know the soil is safe? Detroit has always been heavily industrial and there could be all sorts of shit in the ground.
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Terryh
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Username: Terryh

Post Number: 450
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Someone mentioned security: Haveing lived in semi rural and rural areas as a youth the raiding of orchards-gardens etc. can and will happen anywhere. There is some sort of garden in the Second-Cass area. I think it was on third where the vagrants loiter by the community aid center.
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English
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Username: English

Post Number: 560
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ Here in Ann Arbor this spring, someone came by Mother's Day weekend and cut ALL of my tulips. Please don't think that that just happens in urban or rural areas. Even college towns aren't exempt!

I think that widescale urban gardening, as part of a program of sustainable living, is a brilliant idea. I grew up this way, on Detroit's near West side. My grandmother turned the vacant lot between her house and ours into a wonderful garden. Grew up eating tomatoes, chards, and beans grown there.

Detroit is unique among major urban cities b/c of low density, which we've been punished for in the age of gentrification. Yet one of the things I loved about growing up in the city even @ its most violent point was the fact that we had a large backyard to play in and a garden to work in.

Here in Tree Town, among a certain set, a beautiful garden seems to be a bit of a social status symbol. I continually receive compliments on my small patio garden, and dream about either having my own house, or working in a community garden. I learned skills growing up in my green city, from a grandmother who was raised on a commercial farm in Florida. There is something about working with the soil and nature that is so soothing. (And it's not antithetical to our kids' hip-hop culture. I remember Arrested Development rapping, "Dig your hands in the dirt/Children, play with earth" almost 20 years ago.)

Several DPS schools have gardens; all of them should have them. I say that as a sista, a DPS graduate, and a DPS teacher for 6 years. I find that all too often, my people wish to disavow our Southern (and ultimately, our African agricultural) roots b/c we think that people trying to force us back onto the land is a form of racial oppression. (Had that convo before, LOL!) But with climate change and peak oil on the horizon, Detroit has a real chance to be on the cutting edge again... to be a sustainable city. We need to learn all over again what ALL of our great-grandparents knew.

About soil contaminants and pollutants: what a WONDERFUL 21st century business and educational opportunity! Sounds like a problem that mankind's ingenuity created, and therefore one that mankind's ingenuity might be able to fix. Perhaps THAT will be our next global contribution -- a way to "heal the earth", literally, instead in the fuzzy silly sense we're all used to.

In short, I think this is one of the best urban renewal solutions. It would put Detroit ahead of the current boom cities in the Sun Belt, which are doing all the wrong things in the face of global warming. In the age of more Wal-Marts, everyone moving to climates where you run A/C year-round, placing lots of people in the middle of deserts, and developing away the Mississippi Delta, we can show folks another way to live... just as we did with the automobile.
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 238
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 6:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:
"Ok, but how does one know the soil is safe? Detroit has always been heavily industrial and there could be all sorts of shit in the ground."

There has been previous discussions on this. For the most part alot of the soil isn't as bad as you might think. However, it is a legitimate concern. Phytoremediation involves uses native plants and grasses to clean the soils. It's been tested and proven effective and falls in line with the whole 'urban farming' concept.

http://co-labstudio.org/pagesp ortfolio/portfolio_bunche3.htm l

Some of the more heavily contaminated industrial sites would take years to clean...but what good are they doing in the meantime?
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Dave
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Username: Dave

Post Number: 156
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

English is exactly right about the advantage of Detroit's low density. There is an enormous amount of land in the city that is not being used. Not just vacant lots and abandoned factories, but around almost every house. Put a few potato plants in your lawn. Nobody will steal them and they will store all winter.

Gnome-I didn't tell you to sell your house and move into an apartment. I said that if anyone had just an apartment and a balcony they could grow food. If you've got a house, plant some food and quit bitching about having to mow the grass.
dave
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Yelloweyes
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Username: Yelloweyes

Post Number: 173
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am very interested in urban farming. I would like to get involved next spring-summer, so I imagine this is the time to start for next year as far as making connections.

I am basically interested in "adopting" an abandon lot on the far east side and developing a community garden. Is there anyone else interested in doing this type of project on the far east side next year? There are some issues to overcome, but if we get a small group together now we can be set up for next spring.

Anyone interested?
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Oakmangirl
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Username: Oakmangirl

Post Number: 64
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Margaret,

"...how about huge crazy casinos with mammoth organic gardens in the back? decorative landscaping around casino buildings with cabbages, greens, corn, and so on interspersed among the more typical landscaping plants? casinos with rooftop raised beds!"

I love it! We could have the world's first eco-casino. All "green" design inside;wind-powered (no solar, for some reason gamblers fear the sun-maybe cause it reminds them of the reality that they're wasting their money); all the grains/plants needed to make drinks could be grown on site; attendants giving demos like money-burning, er I mean, butter churning; participating by turning the compost pile; a petting zoo...the possibilities are endless (and mindless in my case). Oh, and of course, the obligatory giant chicken breeding video room where viewers can marvel over just how we've perfected things.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dave:

I am one of the few folks who has grass and I take care of it. I ain't bitchin'.

I love the idea of turning every vacant piece of property into a little farm; my point is that our central issue here in Detroit is security. Both personal and property security.

I salute everyone here that makes small improvements to our fair city. Every plant, flower, tree is a blessing and brings hope to folks.

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