 
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1542
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 1:20 pm: |    |
But if part of Michigan's solution to its economic woes is capitalizing on tourism and conventions, should how out of towners get around be put into the equation? |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 71
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 1:23 pm: | |
Maybe this isn't a great analogy, but whenever I see the PM I'm reminded of a Kiwanis man or Vet riding in one of those silly small cars at a parade. The city is like the grown man riding a kiddy car that doesn't really go anywhere, and the PM, like this man/car parade standby, is now really nothing more than absurd spectacle. The only thing missing is that no one is hurling candy at me. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3603
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 1:56 pm: | |
JLodge, that's bs. It's lit, and there's activity. Brush St. has Sweetwater and Jacoby's, and Beaubien, though a little quiet at Larned, does have Buzz Bar and Opus One nearby, and such places at Detroiter Bar, St. Andrew's/Shelter, and Niki's as you make your way to Greektown. There are normally people milling around late at night, and it is not dark. Amen, though, to the plea for infill. That would be a great mixed-use/mid-rise neighborhood. Detroit Mercy Law school could easily become a residential place with some apartment options in Bricktown.
I see Jefferson as the big problem, although the median helps a lot. Don't even get me started on trying to cross at St. Antoine. You're practically at the freeway ramps there, the sidewalk doesn't cross through the median (if i recall), and then stupid BCBS blocks your walk to Greektown. |
Steelworker
Member
Username: Steelworker
Post Number: 959
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:05 pm: | |
I use the people mover everytime im downtown now. Specially since its open to 2am on weekends, and oddly enough I use the "dont bother" station most. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 1884
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:09 pm: | |
BS? Alright, I am only recounting my own experience. We walked from Greektown to Campus Martius one night, and a good stretch of the walk was pretty dark, with nobody around. This was last year. Now, this in mind, I went to school downtown and am down there all the time, and if I'm saying I wasn't very comfortable on the walk, I promise you won't get many suburbanites to do it. Perhaps I could have picked another route, but I certainly didn't go out of my way. Not sure exactly what roads I walked down. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3605
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:42 pm: | |
Greektown to CM or the RenCen, what are we talking about?
Greektown to CM is three blocks; you go between some parking garages, cross Randolph, and then walk along the Compuware block. The People Mover couldn't adequately service you for that trip anyway.
Are there too many dark, quiet nights in downtown Detroit still? Yes. But that's because it is not fully mixed-use yet. A lot of blocks lack late-night draws and residences...they're just 9-5 areas. But so is Wall Street and lower Manhattan. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5133
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:49 pm: | |
Any discussion about taking down the PM is a non-issue. We would have to repay the federal government the money they contributed.
And who has the tens of millions to rip it down?
I usually enjoy the people mover every time I come downtown. It's a convenient way to "park and ride".
And NEVER once have I had even a scent of a foul odor in a PM car, NOT ONCE in the hundreds of times I've riden it. |
Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez
Post Number: 349
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:53 pm: | |
not even BO or a little fart action? |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 1888
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:53 pm: | |
We were walking to Campus Martius, then to Ren Cen/Hart Plaza. Really there was only the one area that was dark, and there were some shady characters who came up and bugged us for money, even though they were wearing pretty nice sports team jackets. It's the little places like that, the in-betweens, that need to be lit up nice and filled in to get people really walking around. |
Dbest
Member
Username: Dbest
Post Number: 47
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 3:36 pm: | |
The cleanliness of the PM is always great. Bob hit it on the head with the comment regarding tourism, this really is part of the overall attraction of the downtown unlike many of you think, Indy and plenty of other cities would love to have this.
I know when I stay in town and go out for food and beer I dont hesitate to take the PM back to were I stay at the RenCen which is the most recognized hotel in the state with a great train to deliver you to instant entertainment , Also you ever notice how many people ride to Greektown and other spots after wings games!
The PM is looked upon by many outsiders as something unique and almost cutting edge because its a pretty interesting system. I think its a blast to ride it and I really enjoy rolling next to the Detroit River and seeing Canada out there from an elevated view. |
Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 358
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 3:43 pm: | |
That image made my day! lol
Every time I'm waiting for the Peop at a station, the tune of Mr. Rogers' trolley runs though my head as the train approaches the stop. |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1227
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 3:44 pm: | |
I blew a huge fart on the PM a few weeks ago, I thought I had messed my under britches it was so loud and smelly. The poor woman sitting next to me was dry heaving so bad I thought she was going to hurl all over my Dockers. Fortunately she got off at RenCen. I apologized to her and blamed it on the Greek food and Ouzo I had over at Pegasus. |
Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez
Post Number: 350
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 4:02 pm: | |
cool. |
Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie
Post Number: 1129
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 4:18 pm: | |
Kslice wrote, "We've spent all that money on it and cant very well just give it up." That may or may not apply to the People Mover, but cannot be used as an automatic reason for keeping something going. That rationale was used for far too long on AutoWorld in Flint. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3606
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 4:26 pm: | |
I agree, JLodge. It's all about creating more occupied public space, and creating infill which has windows...people watching the street. Its the most basic way to cut down on crime and shady activity. Thankfully, downtown even in its present state has very little crime, but still spooks people with its dark corners and lack of souls in some places. I guess once we fix that up they'll be even less incentive to ride DPM.
And does anyone else agree with the point I was making?: that even creating regional transit won't make DPM more relevant. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 1891
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 4:28 pm: | |
Yeah I kind of see that. Seems like it would almost take more work to make it relavent, then to just tie the regional transit together normally, at transit stations. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1395
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 4:37 pm: | |
And does anyone else agree with the point I was making?: that even creating regional transit won't make DPM more relevant.
I understand what you're saying, but I don't really agree. For instance, if there were a subway line down Woodward that terminated at GCP. That would make the DPM very relevant for commuters traveling to buildings near and along Jefferson. They do need to eliminate some of the redundant stops to cut down on the round trip... It would be much cheaper than making it bi-directional. Make it transferable from other modes of public transportation and thus it has some usefulness.
It will never be relevant in a bus only system because... why get off the bus 10 blocks early to get on the train when bus is gonna drop you off at the same place quicker? |
Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez
Post Number: 354
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 4:40 pm: | |
quote:It will never be relevant in a bus only system because... why get off the bus 10 blocks early to get on the train when bus is gonna drop you off at the same place quicker?
This query takes on even greater meaning if Quozl is peeling off silent suzies.... |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1232
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 4:42 pm: | |
Thanks Detroitrulez, I need to lay off the Greek cuisine for a while anyways. Going back to Chili dogs from Lafayette... |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1544
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 4:45 pm: | |
It will be much more relevent if we ever get any additional mass transit on say Woodward besides bus service. What ever happened to the study they were talking about being paid for by private business (one being Henry Ford Hospital) about extending the DPM up to New Center? They actually sounded halfway serious about this extension, including how you could use existing DPM equipment in the extension. |
Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw
Post Number: 425
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 4:49 pm: | |
That's the only reason for extending the People Mover. Like it has been said in this thread, the People Mover is mega below capacity, so there are these extra cars and stuff sitting around. The idea is that they would save money in the short term by using some of the existing equipment. It's literally the only reason. |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1233
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 4:52 pm: | |
When I rode the PM a few weeks ago at 10PM, it was filled to the max.
Just sayin'... |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 1892
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 4:55 pm: | |
Is that when you played a blast on the derrier trumpet? |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1396
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 4:56 pm: | |
^And you cleared it out with a silent but deadly? |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 1814
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 5:00 pm: | |
"Ray, I like that LV Monorail, since it allows me to get to the Hilton without taking a Cab."
Yeah...the Hilton, being off the strip, is about the only really convenient hotel along the route. Other than that, well........ |
Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 359
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 5:00 pm: | |
I think if the PM were extended through Midtown and up to New Center, there would be a revelation that mass transit can work. Aside from the areas north of New Center, it would seemingly eliminate the Woodward Line bus route. Furthermore, the stops would be fewer and farther apart than buses that can basically stop wherever they want. This would cause a sudden demand to build densly around the transit stop so as to maximize accessibility to all points from particular stops along the line.
The line would be a catalyst for speeding up projects already underway along the Woodward Corridor and would obviously present new ones. I mean, if residential units on the market in central Detroit are marketing themselves as places with easy access to the stadiums, think of how they could market themselves by touting the grocery store at the Crystal Lofts as only being a few People Mover stops away.
I'd be in support of expanding the People Mover if it can be proven to be done correctly. Ultimately, however I'd rather see a regional system that knows how to cross municipal boundaries.  |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1235
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 5:01 pm: | |
Well yea you guys, except I forgot to keep it silent... |
Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 360
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 5:06 pm: | |
That's good. Those are the more deadly kind. Plus, the green fart cloud might be mistaken as some sort of attack on our nation's public transportation infrastructure. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 541
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 5:10 pm: | |
Quozl:
It seems that the facts about farting are misunderstood in today's society. There are different types of farts which have been well defined.
However, farting sometimes does occur without proper precautions. Farters should announce the fact that farting is not withheld.
Some bad ideas have been attributed to lack of farting.
|
Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster
Post Number: 2136
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 5:32 pm: | |
Ah, Detroit's own Human Transport ...
Remember when they were building it and they discovered that some of the parts were being acquired from South Africa? And this in the middle of apartheid.
Good times. |
Ray
Member
Username: Ray
Post Number: 978
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 6:31 pm: | |
The "urine" remark was classic SDI (suburban
Detroit ignorance).
I don't know if the People Mover was such a good idea, but may every last suburanite in SE MI rot in hell for not having mass transit in this region.
I got into a debate about this last night with a group of 10 people from Macomb County, all oppossed to transit. I've never been in a region where stupidity and narrow mindedness were SO PANDEMIC.
<== needs a drink right now and a ride on BART to reclaim sanity after 4 consecutive weeks in Southeast Michigan. |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 272
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 7:11 pm: | |
Quote: " needs a drink right now and a ride on BART to reclaim sanity after 4 consecutive weeks in Southeast Michigan."
Sounds as though you may be in over your head. |
Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster
Post Number: 2139
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 8:16 pm: | |
Well your first mistake was talking to people from Macomb County. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 650
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 11:44 pm: | |
Ray found 10 people in Macomb County opposed to transit; I regularly ride packed-to-capacity route 560 up and down Gratiot, said to be the busiest single line in the SMART system. The opinions you get depend on who you talk to I guess.
I have met some of the same yingyangs he's talking about though. I was at a meeting in Lansing about two years ago, talking about better transit, and this fellow (who was a city official in the southwest 'burbs) actually turned dark red as he yelled at me (and I mean yelled): "You're not taking a dime from my roads! You won't build anything that takes away from my roads!"
I almost called him an asshole; but then I realized I know a lot of assholes and they wouldn't want to be compared to him. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 547
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 1:07 am: | |
Farting in confined spaces...
|
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1545
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 1:18 pm: | |
You may rip on Macomb County, but it is the only county in SMART not to have any communities opting out of it. All the communities may not have bus lines running through them, but they do have the commuter link service. All Macomb County communities pay into SMART and continue to overwhelming vote for SMART millages. Not to mention some very packed 510 and 560 route busses during rush hour.
(Message edited by bob on August 18, 2007) |
Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick
Post Number: 4813
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 2:07 pm: | |
I sit about 25 feet next to the PM tracks for a good part of every workday. I have probably seen maybe 6 people on it in the past 3 months between 7 AM and 1 PM. It’s a waste of money, BUT it would cost a shit-ton of money to dismantle. Even if they did get rid of it, I bet the tracks would remain standing and turn into a “ruin” of sorts that people would glorify 50 years from now.
I can see how it would be ideal to run it up to Wayne State but even then, the number of riders wouldn’t increase by much IMO. It is very clean and doesn’t smell like urine at all. It’s clean because people are never on it! |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3611
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 2:15 pm: | |
The average middle class person anywhere in metro Detroit will probably come down against transit, even in the face of high fuel prices.
While I don't like Macomb, I wouldn't single them out on this particular matter.
Profscott, I'm guessing they're packed because there are so few routes and buses, and because it's becoming such a big county there are bound to be plenty of people open to buses.
Back to Detroit and new transit solutions for the city and region, I'm surprised at how many people call for streetcars and light rail over quality buses. Buses have a negative stigma in some places, and I guess the middle class views them as "for poor people," but Ann Arbor has a very high rate of transit ridership, trending upwards mind you, and it has never considered anything other than buses (although their buses are "special" by making use of biodiesel, low-sulfur diesel, and electic engines soon). I think routes, frequency, and marketing/perception are all key. I guess in Detroit, with so many people anti-bus, the only way to get transit ridership will be to come up with something that is more of a novelty (not in a DPM sort of way...it would still have to be useful), like a trolley or train. In the end, I think our 5-10 year goal should be to get rapid, fast _____(fill in the blank-- could be electric buses, trolleys, or a small train) on Woodward, Jefferson, and maybe select other routes in the city itself, and to simply beef up SMART, by adding routes, buses, and improving marketing to make it seem fancier. DDOT will also have the ability to save money, by removing/reallocating buses and laying off some drivers, if it replaces some bus routes with more frequent/rapid means on certain streets. |
Kslice
Member
Username: Kslice
Post Number: 144
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 5:20 pm: | |
I was in Chicago the other day and they have the best and worse of mass transit.
I went on the EL to get to a cubs game from downtown. the underground station was so small it made me claustrophobic (which I hardly ever feel). The train was like 90 degrees and packed with people. The voice that should have named every stop was not to be heard and we'd have to slow the train down to like 10mph because there was track construction. Despite all that it did get me to my destination quickly and cheaply. |
French777
Member
Username: French777
Post Number: 200
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 5:44 pm: | |
When I was in Detroit last weekend I thought the Downtown area was alot better lite up then a couple of months ago |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1865
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 9:03 pm: | |
FYI: There was just an advertisement for the People Mover during the Lions-Browns broadcast...
A graphic came on the screen between plays and the announcer said something to the effect of "the best way to get around town for the past 20 years" and "it's only 50 cents a ride"
Not sure if the city advertises it a lot but that's the first one I've seen |
Humanmachinery
Member
Username: Humanmachinery
Post Number: 29
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 1:48 am: | |
The People Mover is inefficient and under-used, like any monorail. It can only send cars in a one-directional loop (rather than changing tracks or forming a network with multiple routes), and does not easily interface with bus stations. Detroit would have been much better off if it minimized freeway construction to the outskirts in the 1950s, built a subway system, and revamped the old trolly and bus routes.
(Message edited by humanmachinery on August 19, 2007) |
Ltdave
Member
Username: Ltdave
Post Number: 86
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 2:27 pm: | |
""Detroit would have been much better off if it minimized freeway construction to the outskirts in the 1950s, built a subway system, and revamped the old trolly and bus routes.""
seems no one (remembers or realizes) the whole BEING of Detroit is to get people OUT of mass transit and INTO their OWN CARS...
d |
Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 363
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 4:43 pm: | |
Key word here is "own".
Interesting how that transformation in to car culture occurred at (relatively) the same time of segregated suburbanization...moreso that the complete "flip-flop" of commercial corridor infrastructure in the city from transit-oriented to auto-oriented made for a scenario that completely emptied essential commerce out of the city. Icing on this big old wedding cake is the fact that a great concentration of city citizens do not have access to a personal automobile to access inaccessible auto-oriented commerce in the suburbs.
Was this an intended perfect storm? I think in many ways it still is the intent of design in suburban America. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3035
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 11:27 pm: | |
quote:
seems no one (remembers or realizes) the whole BEING of Detroit is to get people OUT of mass transit and INTO their OWN CARS...
I thought the whole BEING of Detroit was as an outpost for fur traders.
I could be wrong.... |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1243
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 11:39 pm: | |
Thanks Vetalalumni for the concise posts on flatulence. |
Humanmachinery
Member
Username: Humanmachinery
Post Number: 31
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 8:22 am: | |
Oh, I imagine many of the suburban governments cheered for Detroit's demise, but the federal government had no idea what they were unleashing upon urban America. They enabled the middle class to own their own homes, drive long commutes in a more efficient manner, and live further from downtown centres. The destruction of our cities was an unintended consequence, and few saw it coming until it was too late to do anything. I honestly think the world would have been better if cars remained a toy for the rich, and Henry Ford used the assembly line to find a more efficient means of trolly manufacturing.
And then there's this film:
http://www.archive.org/details /ToNewHor1940
It's bizarre watching this film, created for and based on the General Motors exhibit at the 1939 World's Fair, knowing how the world actually turned out. Those glorious highways were definitely built (in no small part because GM wanted them built) and now we're living with the suburban nightmare, with millions of people driving huge distances to work every day. The massive industrialization that this film speaks of in such glowing terms happened as well, with the consequence being the loss of that "pure, clean air" that GM believes will cover the "metropolis of 1960".
The film also glorifies the consumer society in a way that seems almost disgusting and perverted by modern standards. It routinely slams home the point that millions of new products will be available for men to purchase with their money, (women don't exist in 1960, apparently) earned in the factories that build these amazing products. Yeah, that happened too.
The subtlety with which this vision of 1960 is actually a propaganda organ for General Motors is startling.
Notice that there is no public transit in this vision, and all mobility requires car usage.
Just what became of everything built before 1960? It seems all older structures were destroyed.
Who needs history?
It is naive, beautiful and frightening. Sort of like Triumph of the Will, but without the podium and yelling. |
French777
Member
Username: French777
Post Number: 203
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 8:39 am: | |
I thought some one said extending the line out to the NC and Midtown was not likely if impossible because the manufacturing company for the PM cars does not make them that kind any more and it would be costly to start up the process of making them again. |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1007
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 10:42 am: | |
That's why you extend with a trolley down the middle of Woodward. |
Kslice
Member
Username: Kslice
Post Number: 147
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 11:24 am: | |
The thing about bringing back trolleys is then you have another compleatly different system. There's busses, the PM, and now Trolleys? Seems like the city council would find some way to make it go way over budget and become a big problem.
If the MP WAS to be extended (I don't hold out much hope that it will) it would need a second loop that connected at Grand Circus Park. The downtown loop would remain good for tourists and downtown events while the second loop would become usefull for people getting in and out of downtown. OF course there would have to be connected bus stops on the second loop for seemless transfer. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3048
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 11:37 am: | |
quote:The thing about bringing back trolleys is then you have another compleatly different system. There's busses, the PM, and now Trolleys? Seems like the city council would find some way to make it go way over budget and become a big problem.
San Francisco, Boston, and Toronto succesfully operate at least four different modes of transit service, as do many European cities. Even with the successful Metro system, DC is starting to construct streetcar lines.
Different modes serve different needs. If Michigan has learned anything, it should be that "one-size-fits-all" simply doesn't work. The DPM technology can be obtained, but the number of suppliers (worldwide) is low. Equipment would take a long time to obtain, and replacement parts would be incredibly expensive, if even available. |
Russix
Member
Username: Russix
Post Number: 39
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 3:17 pm: | |
Even the great freeways of Detroit called for high speed streetcars running in their own sections of the freeway(also the grassy embankments were considered to be prime space for playgrounds) complete with an european styled subway terminal under where present day campus martius is. There are many transit improvements that can be made to Detroit. The goal is to create a regional authority that could affect this change. I envision DDOT providing local service in the city, SMART in the suburbs and a regionally funded(detroit included) identity operating limited stop express streetcar, subway or lightrail service. Detroit also has the resources to produce knock-offs of DPM technology. The DPM could also be used as a subway(although its too lite to be light rail or streetcar, collisions with autos, trucks or industrial trains). |
Detroitplanner
Member
Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 1367
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 3:37 pm: | |
It is kind of ironic that we have one thread going that talks about the high cost of commuting by car and another that calls mass trainsit an amusement park ride for the rich. |
Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman
Post Number: 510
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 9:39 pm: | |
In New York City buses move in and out of places fast because of timed traffic lights. Our leaders should do this in downtown Detroit to remove cars from our freeways. The key to make mass transit work is high rider-ship based on facts. Every city with good mass transit has the passengers pay a large share of the costs.
We should not be voting in higher transit taxes unless Livonia comes back because it is not fair that we lost bus service because of late buses and poor service. It is immoral to not give Livonia a fair level playing field that we deserve but never had.
DY'ers, Livonia wants SMART back and we need all of you to support the majority of us. All of you know that we almost kept SMART. We certainly would have if only SMART and DDOT worked together to coordinate bus schedules and if we could somehow get leaders in Lansing to make the much needed investments essential for local transit taxes to work and increase our quality life.
The DARTA failed us because they never came to Livonia to help our city keep SMART. This is wrong and all you DY'ers know this very well if you have any knowledge at all about mass transit funding. |
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 627
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 10:58 pm: | |
Funny how many people are against the people mover.
People seem to be using normal weekday ridership numbers.
However look at ridership during busy events like ball games, autoshow, etc. At those times ridership can go over 50,000 a day, etc.
The people mover basically gets used when lots of people are downtown.
As downtown revives and more people are downtown again, expect to see more usage.
You may think its a train to nowhere, but I bet the people mover helps out Greektown restaurants at lunch time, and people parking a little further from their destination.
Sometimes it takes a while for transit projects to pay off.
I would not take the people mover down. It may not always have the highest ridership everyday, but it has a purpose.
I don't live in Detroit, but everytime I visit Detroit and am on the people mover, it is always well used. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 653
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 11:52 pm: | |
The transportation systems of all types in every community are built to support the day to day needs of the people. The vast majority of all trips of every kind in a region happen during peak hours on weekdays; that is when roads and transit systems are most congested.
When a special event happens - say, the auto show, or a Lions game - then of course every piece of transportation around the event is congested for a while: roads, buses, DPM, everything.
But during normal commute times, the roads are crowded, many of the buses are crowded, and the DPM is not crowded. Therefore I would say as a piece of transportation infrastructure it is not as important as the rest, and it was very expensive, and the low ridership convinced our leadership not to build any more rapid transit for the past 20 years.
If that is not a catastrophe, then I'm not sure I know what "catastrophe" means. |
Tigers2005
Member
Username: Tigers2005
Post Number: 137
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 8:36 am: | |
That is a catastrophe. I hope to see that change soon. |
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