Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2007 » Maples on the NW side « Previous Next »
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Michmeister
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Username: Michmeister

Post Number: 225
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On Whitcomb where I grew op, we had a huge Maple on the corner of just about every lot (a breathtaking sight in the fall) on the other hand my mom always talked about the Elms we had on the eastside (until the dreaded epidemic). What regulated the choice?
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 3453
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe the elms took better to the soggy clay soil of the eastside, while the maples thrived in the drier sandy soil on the west side?
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 1824
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any plant grows better on the west side. We all know that.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1482
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe as simple as the two streets being built at two different times and the city being on a Maple or an Elm binge at that time.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5143
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They were on a Sycamore tree binge in the 1970's, and seem to be on a Locust tree binge today.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 5517
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rotting garbage makes great compost. World-class trees have always grown well on the Eastside of Detroit.

jjaba.
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Gazhekwe
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Username: Gazhekwe

Post Number: 53
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had elms on Littlefield between Joy and Plymouth on the west side. We also had elms on St. Marys south of Grand River. They replaced them in the 70s, after they mostly all died from Dutch elm disease. The replacement trees were Norway maples. I remember some discussion about them being relatively fast growing, trouble free trees. Now the wisdom is to NOT use all the same trees to prevent the problems caused by species specific diseases and pests. I don't see the cities following a wise mixing species practice, though.
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Michmeister
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Username: Michmeister

Post Number: 226
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The trunks of the maples were about 2-3 feet in diameter 20 years ago when I left so they were planted well the Dutch Elm Disease disaster. I remember mom talking about the city spraying DDT and that everybody should shut all doors and windows, although the poison was completely harmless for humans. Within the next year, both mom and dad had their gallbladders removed. Coincidence?
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Parkguy
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Username: Parkguy

Post Number: 93
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our street in Rosedale Park has very mature silver maples, still standing. Most of the streets had elms, and their trees are now much younger. Our maples are starting to die off. They are very shallow-rooted, and the huge limbs are snapping off every summer. There has been some real house damage in the last two years. I can attest to the fact that when the city forestry department is called on one of these dangerous situations, they get out very quickly and often have the tree removed within hours.
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Soomka1
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Username: Soomka1

Post Number: 31
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 9:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I lived on Terry just south of Joy Rd. in the late 60's. We had huge Elm trees that reached across the street and almost formed a tunnel. I remember on the street behind us which was Lauder there were nothing but Maple trees. I just looked it up on Google maps and it looks like Lauder is still nice and shady. I also remember that truck Michmeister mentioned that would blast the trees with insecticide. That was quite a show.
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Craig
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Username: Craig

Post Number: 238
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 7:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Re: Silver Maples falling down...

Big storms in my west side neighborhood would almost always leave streets impassable with downed limbs. No joke.
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 808
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ but you wernt stuck right? You could drive your car right out over them, right?
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 1256
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I lived on Archdale & Schoolcraft, the stately elm trees looked like an arch.




(Detnews)
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Craig
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Username: Craig

Post Number: 243
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^Miss-cleo - depending upon how and when the trees fell we were either stuck or had to park down the street and walk. The cool thing about the City's grid, though, was a couple of block streets & intersections didn't necessarily mean that one was cut off from civilization. Old-timers in my current suburban sub recall the flood of 19-something when the road was under water and they were truly cut off for days.
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Parkguy
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Username: Parkguy

Post Number: 94
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quozl--
I love the picture of Archdale! When you talk to older Detroiters, they all bemoan the loss of the elms. Lots of people say that losing the trees changed the look of the whole city more than anything.
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Vetalalumni
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Username: Vetalalumni

Post Number: 577
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had a large beautiful Dutch Elm tree on the parkway out in front of the house in Rosedale Park. It fell victim to Dutch Elm Disease and was removed along with several other Dutch Elms on our block.
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Dave70
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Username: Dave70

Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow that photo really reminds me of my childhood! I lived on the eastside... Morang, Kelly, Moross area.

p.s. we and our next door neighbor had maples in our backyard, elms in front by the street.

(Message edited by Dave70 on August 21, 2007)
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Missnmich
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Username: Missnmich

Post Number: 604
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had a large beautiful Dutch Elm tree on the parkway out in front of the house in Rosedale Park. It fell victim to Dutch Elm Disease and was removed along with several other Dutch Elms on our block


No. You had an American Elm. American elms died from Dutch Elm Disease.
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Vetalalumni
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Username: Vetalalumni

Post Number: 578
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Missnmich, thanks for the correction.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1657
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quozl--thank you for that photo, it reminded me of my street (Braile) in NW Detroit, early-mid 60's. All of those streets looked like "the green cathedral"
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 1260
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting article on how Detroit lost its stately elms from the Detroit News:
quote:

Perhaps if they had not been so beautiful. Perhaps if they had been planted 100 feet apart instead of 40. Perhaps if the space between the sidewalk and the curb had been wider. Perhaps if the homeowners had watered them. Perhaps if the European beetle had not arrived in this country in a load of infected elm wood for furniture.

Then maybe Detroit would still have some of the lofty elm trees that formed vaulted cathedral-like tunnels of shade over neighborhood streets.

During the 1930s some Netherlandish beetles that lived in elm bark and carried a deadly fungus came to ravish America's beloved elms. Most cities had chosen the fast growing elm to shade neighborhood streets. Detroit planted over 400,000 trees on city land, between sidewalks and street curbs. The saplings quickly grew to enormous size, up to 120 feet tall. But the quick growth soon caused the wide tree trunks to lift sidewalks and attack the curbs. Crews replaced the uplifted sidewalk sections with curved sections to avoid the encroaching trunks.

The beloved trees seemed to protect the homes. Homes surrounded by the shade trees seemed not to need air conditioning. The leaves allowed filtered sunlight to attract the eye heavenward, and indeed most who recall the trees, describe the arches of elm branches in terms of cathedral vaults used by medieval church architects to lift the spirit.

In 1950 the first case of Dutch elm disease appeared in Detroit. It quickly spread, with cases reported on Korte Street, Chandler Park, Gratiot and Eight Mile, Jefferson and Conner, and on Manor Avenue near Meyers and Plymouth Roads.

Detroit decided to try to save the trees by spraying DDT by helicopter. DDT, legal at the time, did kill insects. It also killed birds and threatened pets and children, according to environmentalists. Parents kept their kids indoors while the copters sprayed. Lawyers considered lawsuits for the delicate who might suffer a reaction from the chemicals. Bird lovers counted bodies, but also mourned the loss of the homes for the birds, the very trees the helicopters were trying to save. Later Methoxychlor replaced DDT, but it was found to kill fish. The chemical was not to be allowed to get into the sewer system. But how was the rain to know when it washed over the sprayed tree leaves?

Lawsuits weren't the only problem. Even Lloyd's of London refused insurance to cover the spraying. Detroit's efforts to save the trees did delay the inevitable long enough to develop a manageable tree removal system. Toledo had decided not to spray, and lost almost all their trees quickly. Falling branches and storm-felled became a serious problem. Des Moines, Iowa, which also did no prevention, lost 90 percent of its trees within a decade, leaving the tree-lined neighborhoods dusty and wind-swept.

Property values, and tax revenues based on those values, also dropped while the costs of tree removal soared for most stricken cities.

During the early 1950s Detroit lost only 2,000 trees per year, a small enough number to keep the crews at an even pace, and to help spread the cost out over a longer period.

In 1965 a drought hit, adding more stress to the trees. The removal pace hit about 10,000 trees per year, until 1972, when the city had taken down 100,000 trees over the previous 21 years.

In 1970 Detroit paid $500,000 for tree removal and $300,000 for spraying, which seemed to delay the deaths of the elms.

In a 1968 Michigan State University extension bulletin, researchers estimated that Michigan had about 5 million elm shade trees still alive, and their value was more than $700 million.

Property owners bore the cost of removal, usually about $1,000 per tree. City workers warned delinquent homeowners to hurry it up, or pay the city for removal.

Pollution rules required that cut trees were only to be disposed of in approved and expensive burial dumps. Detroit began to violate the no-burn law and burned the trees in big piles on Belle Isle.

After the epidemic had run its course, hindsight proved that the efforts to maintain tree health had been the least costly approach to the problem The prevention efforts only delayed the inevitable, but allowed an orderly transition, as other varieties of trees replaced the elms. But homeowners still mourned their elms. Michigan lost 80 percent of its shade elms.

Scientists have been working on finding a resistant elm since the 1930s with little success. However, some lessons learned include spreading new plantings far apart so the beetles can't attack so quickly. Some chemicals may help keep some trees alive longer. Large watered lawns, such as in Grosse Pointe seem to allow for healthier, more resistant trees. Variety in planting choices might prevent any disease from wiping out vast numbers of identical trees. Researchers may yet find a perfect resistant elm to come back and shade us.

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Chuckjav
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Username: Chuckjav

Post Number: 24
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of massive trees in Detroit.....

There is still a super-gigantic Sycamore, just north of Grand River at Wyoming.

Also, one of the biggest trees I have ever seen - an elm - died in 2005; it stood at the corner of Eastwood and Brock for a long...long time
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 3255
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Champion Trees
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Mama_jackson
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Username: Mama_jackson

Post Number: 242
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are some elms still in Wayne county. this tree survey is from 2000, and they just wrapped up the 2007 census.

http://www.globalreleaf.org/wi nners.htm
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Lombaowski
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Username: Lombaowski

Post Number: 53
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 9:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very interesting thread. Thanks for the input Quozl. The Dutch Elm disease problem probably couldn't have hit the city at a worse time IMO. Those trees added so much to the feeling of home it seems to me that people had one less reason to stay in the 60s and 70s. Seems to me many who lived in the city always considered it to be a logical mix of the country and the city and those Elms really had a soothing effect. All those trees coming down really affected the psyche of people and made areas much less aesthetically pleasing. Maybe I’m off base here because most of the Elms were gone by the time I was born but I remember my Grandpa and Grandma talking to us about how beautiful the streets used to be with all those Elms and they kind of tied the loss of those trees with the loss of faith in the city.
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Beavis1981
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Username: Beavis1981

Post Number: 604
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I could be wrong but I beleive we had chinese? elms. They also fell victim to the dutch elm. By the time it was dead enough to grow no leaves carpenter ants had basically mulched the whole root system.
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Gianni
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Username: Gianni

Post Number: 305
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 11:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lombaowski you may be on to something.

I remember the elm trees in West Detroit and Dearborn as a kid in the 60s.

I've always wanted to write about the "trees of Detroit." If the trees could talk they could tell the history of this place. Here in LP, we have wonderful trees, almost like a forest. Mostly locust trees planted about 50 years ago. Now fully mature. If you look at pictures of this area in 1960 it looked like Mars or the Moon. Now it looks like the Garden of Eden if you catch it in the proper light.

I'm also interested in the few trees that were left standing when they did the urban renewal. Until a few years ago there was a massive tree near Nicolet. It was killed in a storm. I later heard that it was brough from Germany where it or its ancestor tree was in the back of a beer garden, and ultimately planted in the midst of the German neighborhood, part of which is now LP.

There is a chesnut tree nearby. My wife as a visiting nurse years ago had an elderly Syrian patient whose sons were taking care of her. They told my wife that in the "old neighborhood" at Congress and Orleans, there was a great chestnut tree in front of their house. We looked for it. There is no intersection of Congress and Orleans any more but one can still find that spot and the Chestnut tree is still there.

But I'm not telling where the apple tree is.

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