  Masterblaster Member Username: Masterblaster Post Number: 75 Registered: 03-2005 |
Gistok wrote: "No, the concrete paddock area (10 acres) is permanent. Prior to paving that "non-Olmstead" area, it was poor drainage grassland, unsuitable for picnic'ing." Mr. Gistok, just because it WAS a poorly drained area, does not mean it could have been re-graded or re-engineered so that it would drain better. In your signature park, you should have as much green as possible, to be an oasis from the concrete/asphalt and pollution of the city. Would they go for this in New York and it's Central Park? Or Chicago and it's Lincoln and Millenium Parks? | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 107 Registered: 08-2007 |
Detroitnerd for mayor, even if he is cranky. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1283 Registered: 07-2004 |
Ha ha. I’ll bet you guys think I look like Ted Knight or something, lips curled in a sneer, eyes wide, shaking my fist and pounding my keyboard into atoms or something. I’m actually mild-mannered when my dander is down. I just, er, am not known for understatement. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 109 Registered: 08-2007 |
Hey, I agree with your observations. We really do need more iconoclasts willing to speak out. And that whole kite flying story, while it tugged at my heart strings, has a loose connection to Ben Franklin- one of the greatest leaders we've known. So you're saying that you'd go with Ted Knight as your avatar? Better than Georgette. ha. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 458 Registered: 02-2006 |
Just another bad idea for a mismanaged city planner. Anyone for New York City???? <313> | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9890 Registered: 12-2003 |
I dunno, with this concrete we could invent a sport...kite 'blading. I guess I don't need to remind anyone that they indeed DID re-grade and re-engineer that space so it could drain better...AND accomodate the support crews of a few race teams, along with stands NOT built in the mud. If anyone attended one of the last races on the island, where the grandstands were setup on the slightly grassy areas, they know how unbelievably sloppy it was...and that is dangerous for the pit crews. Nah, as much as the aesthetics are shocking...overall having racing back in the Motor City is a very, very good thing. Who's got a spare pit pass? Corporate party, need an escort? I'm whoring myself out for access. Heh. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 807 Registered: 05-2005 |
As far as asking whens the last time I was there, thats pretty dumb. I have never been to the Grand Canyon, but I am against paving 10 acres of it. Its a park, not a race track.....and to answer the dumb question, I was there last year before we moved | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 98 Registered: 08-2006 |
Detroit..."The Kite City". Yeah, that will be sure to bring in the new industry and jobs that are needed by the city! Sorry, 'nerd, couldn't resist. I can relate to your distress. We used to have a favorite camping spot on a point beside a lake until the Reagan cuts hit the Park service so hard that they turned it into a day area and it has never returned as a camp ground. And, I sure wouldn't call that progress. I am not one of those who thinks 'progress' at any cost is good, but I do think this race has a chance to help put Detroit back on the map with a positive image rather than some of the other lists the city keeps finding itself on year after year. And, I have absolutely nothing against kite flying and wish that I had a good kite myself. I have a nephew that competed in kite-flying contests in Australia and now works with rockets. But, I think Detroit's place as "The Motor City" has a better chance of finding new riches for the city rather than Detroit, "The Kite City". 'nerd, maybe you now have a calling, turn Detroit into the International capital of kite flying! | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1977 Registered: 10-2003 |
"JohnLodge: Can I have a hug now?" Sure DN. http://www.freehugs.org/ | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 116 Registered: 08-2007 |
Peachlaser, I have to agree with Detroitnerd here (besides he's our next mayor if Margaret and I can do anything about it). Belle Isle, 100% of it, was designed as an urban oasis, so why are paving it to accommodate more cars? Don't we have enough of an asphalt jungle in the metro area to use without further destroying ecosystems and yes, disrupting a pleasant afternoon of kiteflying, toy boat sailing, picnicking, hell, just plain relaxing. Interesting that the French don't carve up and pave Le Jardin de Luxembourg for racing; they embrace their history and have aesthetics (not counting the Pompidou Centre). No, they oddly use common sense and their built concrete environment. In fact, why don't we have a Le Mans type race instead and shut down the Jeffries to do so. Let's see how many people are cheering "Motor City" then! Why do we cling to that outmoded auto image as our salvation? Why can't we evolve (get some public transit for starters- the Big 3 are dead)? Why can't we become Motown again instead with a focus on our musical heritage? | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9894 Registered: 12-2003 |
I always thought the I-94/I-275/I-96 Jeffries loop would make a great long-distance GTO/U prototype race course...although I'd probably want to continue a little figure 8 through the city on I-75 north off I-96 (get the bridge in the background) through that hairpin as I-75 goes north again after Comerica/Ford Field, then the sweeper back onto I-94. Those highways in the inner city have some fun exit and entrance ramps, they should at least be in a video game. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1614 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: What in the world are you talking about? The Circuit de la Sarthe in Le Mans is comprised of public roads inside the city that are closed for the race. Not some expressway. quote: And in Montreal they have their F1 Canadian Grand Prix on a normally quiet, recreational island as well. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 118 Registered: 08-2007 |
Right, my point being that the racing in France remains on public roads, not an "artificial" construct through a park. I didn't mean to imply that the Le Mans track comprised an expressway but last time I checked the Jeffries is a public thoroughfare. I used it as an example to make the statement that cars, freeways, and roads belong together, not parks. If one created an analogies test: freeway: car or public park: car Which one makes more sense? Montreal is just plain wrong. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1615 Registered: 11-2003 |
Last I checked Belle Isle had public roads. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 121 Registered: 08-2007 |
I know that historically the park had the auto industry in mind, but it doesn't mean that I believe that was the right thing to do. Let's follow your argument...but why then, pave a track when roads already exist on the Isle, just for a spectator sport? | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1617 Registered: 11-2003 |
There's where your argument is flawed. If you would have been following this from the beginning instead of having a kneejerk reaction months after the fact you would know that they didn't pave the track -- they paved the paddock. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9895 Registered: 12-2003 |
So the groupies, er...race aides, didn't get their high-heels stuck in the mud. Right?! | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 124 Registered: 08-2007 |
track, paddock, whatever...the park doesn't need any more concrete, period. If they're going to use the park, they should stick to what they have already in the built environment. I'm not into splitting hairs. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1618 Registered: 11-2003 |
You're not into splitting hairs but you also made it clear that you don't know what you're talking about. The paddock and the track are two completely opposite entities. They used to race in the already existing environment and that was a large part of the reason they stopped running the DGP in 2001. It was too dangerous for the crews (and yes, Gannon, the Pit Lizards, too). If we wanted racing back in Detroit the paddock had to paved. They announced the paving of the paddock last September. Where were all you hand wringers then? http://www.downtowndetroit.org /ddp/newsroom/detroit_news_sep tember_30_2006.htm quote: | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 24 Registered: 07-2007 |
I think its awesome. In fact, they should keep the track there, then charge people 100.00 or so, to race around the track in race cars. Make it like a amusement land to the auto industry, yeah thats it. At least people can let off a little steam and help pay for belle isle. | ||
Masterblaster Member Username: Masterblaster Post Number: 76 Registered: 03-2005 |
Peachlaser wrote: "...but I do think this race has a chance to help put Detroit back on the map with a positive image rather than some of the other lists the city keeps finding itself on year after year." Detroit, of which I am a resident, will be seen in a more positive light when: 1. There is a substantial decrease in violent crime 2. There is a substantial decrease in the 72% child illegitimacy rate 3. There is a marked improvement in the public schools 4. Better public transit (i.e. more reliable bus service and installation of signs at bus stops indicating which routes stop there) 5. Elect politicians (City Council & Mayor) that will not race-bait and who have some foresight and desire to serve the citizens, all citizens, instead of themselves 6. Property owners (both city dwellers and suburbanites) stop neglecting their Detroit Properties 7. People stop littering and dumping trash 8. Has a more vibrant and walkable downtown | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1987 Registered: 10-2003 |
The rub, though, is that none of those things will happen until middle class people start moving back into the city in great numbers. Which they won't do until those things happen. | ||
Screamingfit Member Username: Screamingfit Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2006 |
Did the previous Grand Prix races help the vitality of Detroit? Did Detroit take a downturn when they stopped having it? Seriously. | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 99 Registered: 08-2006 |
When reading these posts, I thought of the stories from Germany after reunification of the West and East. The Germans wanted a single country, but found out that it was more work than everyone imagined. People from the East expected a share of the wealth that had been acquired in West Germany over the years while the citizens in the West thought they had earned this wealth so it was not to be shared. There might be some examples for Detroit in the German reunification story. It seems both sides had to give. The former Easterners couldn't expect to have all the riches that their cousins had accumulated in free Germany and those with the wealth realized that they had to share if they truly wanted a unified and functioning country. My point is that with good jobs and a whole lot of personal responsibility, those lists that you posted MasterBlaster would hopefully disappear. It's a changed world and people need to learn new skills to work in the 21st century automotive world. Some of the brightest automotive minds in the world will be at Belle Isle. I simply see this as a huge opportunity for Detroit. The concrete will look a lot better with thousands of people on it and all the colors and excitement. Hopefully, it will become a rallying spot for many other events year round. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1619 Registered: 11-2003 |
Anyone looking towards the DGP for a positive impact on the city is short-sighted. For me, it's all about the racing. | ||
Lowereast Member Username: Lowereast Post Number: 12 Registered: 08-2007 |
Screamingfit, I am sure the hotels, restaurants, etc enjoy the added business. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 125 Registered: 08-2007 |
Good point, Johnlodge; it's a proverbial snake chasing its tail. Susanarosa, I followed the previous posts but not having returned to Detroit until recently (and I should have read more closely); I mixed up the track with the paddock. mea culpa. The terminology and history of racing there matters little to me; I don't think racing belongs on the isle, and I thought we were all entitled to an opinion out here? In fact, I don't think cars need to be on the isle at all; I'd rather see it become more like Mackinac actually. Don't we see enough cars around the region as it is? I'm just so tired of the car worship: Hines Park, Rouge, again, both car-centric. Everyone's so big on no smoking, I'd like a no car exhaust zone for a change. Guess I need to revisit "The Boy in the Plastic Bubble". | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1620 Registered: 11-2003 |
Of course you're allowed to your opinion and I'm allowed to give you an opposing opinion as well as facts. The bubble sounds like a good idea. | ||
Detroitrulez Member Username: Detroitrulez Post Number: 355 Registered: 12-2006 |
I'd like to put a bubble around this entire thread. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1621 Registered: 11-2003 |
Maybe we can put a bubble over Belle Isle, Rulez? |
