  Soomka1 Member Username: Soomka1 Post Number: 35 Registered: 02-2007 |
If you haven't taken a look at this yet, there is an excellent feature from a blogger in the News http://download.gannett.edgesu ite.net/detnews/2007/news/0721 dobelstreet/index.html I think it will help explain how those of us who grew up in Detroit in the 60's feel about the current condition of the city. This could just as easily be about my old neighborhood on Terry, or my grandparents' on Goulburn. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1874 Registered: 01-2005 |
Thanks for that link, Soomka. Yeah, that's a familiar story for me, too. So sad. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6452 Registered: 02-2004 |
Dobel St. just east of Van Dyke Rd. south of Six Mile Rd. in Detroit's NE side is been totally black and blighted for over 30 years. This is the price we have to pay when the acceleration of white flight from Detroit to the suburbs becomes a reality. Dobel St. and rest of the Fletcher ghettohood is long gone but the white memories still lives on. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 326 Registered: 11-2003 |
It looks somewhat like post-Katrina New Orleans with the numbers on the doors, trash in the streets.. How sad. My dad has stories about his old neighborhoods, too. I'm sure this is part of why so many have a severe hatred of the city - they feel betrayed, pushed out. I sometimes can't believe it when I see old pictures that this could happen in America. | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 294 Registered: 08-2007 |
That was a really good commentary, just that one neighborhood. I've seen it happen that way too. My grandmother's house on Woodmont south of Plymouth where we stayed when we first moved to Detroit in 1964, gone. My mother's house on Littlefield south of Chicago seems to have weathered the storm and the neighborhood seems to be picking up. It's funny how our block on St. Marys south of Grand River seemed to be the only one to suffer, and it seems to have stabilized and be picking back up now after about 30 years. I looked at those two neighborhoods recently and it makes me feel hopeful. | ||
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm Post Number: 1392 Registered: 02-2005 |
Thanks Soomka1, I grew up one street over from your grandparents, on Waltham, between 7 and 8. | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 114 Registered: 05-2006 |
Danny What doe's so called white flight have to do with it? Those were the same houses, same addresses, what changed? | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 575 Registered: 08-2006 |
I recognized that street because of the curve in it. I did work on a house on that street a year or two ago and damn that was one of the worst streets I have ever seen in the D. To bad when I was there I could not fathom that being a stable pleasant neighborhood. I always thought it sucked being 25 years old that I never seen the city as it was and that video did a great job showing how it was....so recently! I can not believe that as recently as the sixties the neighborhood looked as it did. That was a nice video....we have got A LOT of work to do with the city. | ||
Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude Post Number: 208 Registered: 03-2006 |
Sounds like a nice project to make a film about- The Rise and Fall of Dobel Street. You could pick a time in the sixties when all was well on Dobel Street then note the housing sales from then to present time and trace the families that moved away to ask why they moved. But it's likely more complicated than that. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6457 Registered: 02-2004 |
Caldogven, What change? Simple WHITE FLIGHT! Black folks moving in white folks moving out. Simply just because by the color of their skin. Later, middle-income blacks who lived at the Fletcher ghettohood either sold or rent of those homes to low-income blacks ( that includes white landlords and slumlords) and most of the middle-income blacks have moved away via BLACK FLIGHT. Most low-income blacks can't even take care of their property and of themselves due to their self pity within their families. Then along came the riots, the crack epidemic and rise of gangs, domestic violence crime and disinvestments and you have a black and blighted ghettohood within 30 years and that's what happen to Dobel St. and the rest of the Detroit ghettohoods. | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 171 Registered: 09-2006 |
I enjoyed the slide show. For a more in-depth examination of the decline of a city block, read the Detroit News' series on Elmhurst from 2001. http://detnews.com/specialrepo rts/2001/elmhurst/ | ||
Mkhopper Member Username: Mkhopper Post Number: 10 Registered: 02-2006 |
It's so sad looking at things like this. Very eye-opening as well. I see the state of neighborhoods like this and I wish I could have seen them personally back when these areas were vibrant and alive. That was all before my time however and all one can hope for now is that somehow, areas like this can rise above the issues of the day and be alive once more. Sadly, I don't see that happening anytime soon. :/ @Danny: >Most low-income blacks can't even take care of their property and of themselves due to their self pity within their families. What I find funny about that statement is that when you look at the photos in that movie, or just drive around and look at run down neighborhoods yourself you see busted windows covered with newspaper, sheets or wood. Garbage dumped anywhere and everywhere, porches falling down, etc. But with all that mess you look up and see that satellite dish on the roof. Place is falling apart around their heads, but damnit, they've got pay tv. Time to chuck the self-pity bit and get some better priorities... (Message edited by mkhopper on September 04, 2007) (Message edited by mkhopper on September 04, 2007) | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 78 Registered: 02-2007 |
I agree, Mkhopper. Pay Tv or cars and trucks with audio systems worth more than thier homes. | ||
Fastcarsfreedom Member Username: Fastcarsfreedom Post Number: 184 Registered: 11-2005 |
Leaving social commentary out of this, it was just plain heartbreaking to watch. Think of how many people could tell the exact same story as this gentleman, about some other block in the city. I've always noticed this one solid looking two-story (vacant) at Norcross and the I-94 and wondered who's home it was--the stories that could be told of family holidays together, etc. No matter the past or future, the abandonment of the city's neighborhoods is a tragedy. | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 1042 Registered: 04-2007 |
agree fff | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6463 Registered: 02-2004 |
Mkhopper, That's the way it is in most Detroit ghettohoods. A great method to keep the neighborhood clean and filled with good honest neighbors depends on its people. If any neighbor is having problems at home its going to have problems in the streets. Back then most Detroit neighborhoods was not a ghetto. Its was more inner ring suburban just like you saw in those pictures of Dobel St. The homes were beautiful there were middle-income white kids and black kids everywhere getting along just fine living the pre-hippie lifestyle. The suddenly along came the riots, more low-income blacks buying and renting homes in every block. White folks don't to see 10 to 100 black folks living in their neighborhood so they secretly pack up their things, posting up their real estate signs, sold the home to middle and low-income blacks and move away from Detroit to the suburbs. Landlords become slumlords messing up the homes and renting them out to low-income blacks and exploit them all. Then came the economic flight, disinvestments, poor city services and bad schools, gangs ruled the streets, violent crime was rampant, the crack epidemic loomed and and more middle income blacks began to move out from Detroit to the suburbs selling or renting their what's left the homes to more low-income blacks. Before you know it most low-income blacks can't even take care of a Detroit neighborhood or their home due their self pity so most of the, either sell their homes, burn it down, give it to the city, then comes the looting and plundering of the homes resources leaving it abandoned causing the city to demolish the homes and there you have it, a black and blight Detroit ghettohood like Dobel St. and other Detroit ghettohood blocks. Why because I go into that block just to observe its damages not just looking at Google Earth. I grew up in ghettos of Detroit all of my life I have seen houses that being kept up and I have seen houses that are totally destroyed. It's all due to the PEOPLE who lived in those areas and how are they going to take care of their properties. | ||
Jeduncan Member Username: Jeduncan Post Number: 131 Registered: 11-2006 |
What about companies leaving the city to run their operations on the cheaper land in the suburbs? I think that has just as much, if not more to do with "white-flight" than the riots. I think sometimes people might give the riots slightly more credit than it is actually owed. Just like business was cheaper outside the city, Homeownership was too. If you build it, they will come.... Maybe that was just as much the case as "white flight." I'm not denying that white flight was a huge thing for the city, as I'm sure it was. I hear about it from people often. However, I think there's a lot more to it than that. ... Just my insight on it... | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 324 Registered: 02-2007 |
For what it's worth there is a GI party scheduled for this Saturday to attack the mess in the park featured in the Dobel Street piece. Pissing into the wind, I'm sure, but if I can I'll be there with gloves on to lend a hand. Someone say "I give a shit" and I'll dig up the place/time info (buried somewhere). | ||
Fastcarsfreedom Member Username: Fastcarsfreedom Post Number: 186 Registered: 11-2005 |
I wasnt alive, let alone living in the area for the riots--but I dont think their impact can possibly be overstated--talk to anyone who was alive and experienced that--to be frank I'm talking especially about white Detroiters, and their voices still show the stress they felt all these years later--though much of that fear may have been misplaced--it was real, and it's impact was immediately tangible. I remember seeing a retired woman interviewed who worked on an upper floor in the glass house at the time--and her explaining the absolute terror she felt looking out toward the city from Dearborn and seeing the smoke. Times were changing quickly when the riots happened--I think for many, as Mr. Happy's short film suggests, it was a tipping point. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 480 Registered: 11-2006 |
The only thing that bothers me is this one question looming in my mind. I have no idea I wasn't alive and it's not meant to be offensive, but why didn't anyone do anything? No one ever talks about what they did to prevent the decline in their neighborhood. Did they do anything? Or did everyone just pack up and give up? It seems like there could have been actions taken to prevent slum lords and keep blighted homes from creating such a huge problem. No one has ever addressed this and to me in my mind it almost sounds like everyone just gave up and quit. | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 319 Registered: 08-2007 |
Well, you have Code Enforcement. They'd put tickets on the houses where things needed fixing up and grass needed cutting. But, no one was there to get the ticket, or do the work. I know we kept up the empty house next door to us for a couple years, mowing the lawn, telling off the kids who were breaking the windows. Somehow, then, our windows got broken. Sigh. Well, we did eventually give up, but we were far from the first. That street is still the poorest looking one in the neighborhood, but it doesn't seem to have gotten any worse, at least. | ||
Crumbled_pavement Member Username: Crumbled_pavement Post Number: 14 Registered: 08-2007 |
Craig, I give a shit. What's the info? | ||
Sec106 Member Username: Sec106 Post Number: 11 Registered: 03-2007 |
I was 11 during the riot and lived in Detroit at Wyoming and Tireman. And I was not scarred by the riots. My dad still lives there and his neighborhood looks just like it did in 67'. Maybe better actually, the streets have always been taken care of by the homeowners who even in 1967 where at least half black. When I was 24 I moved to Michigan and Central to a old Polish neighborhood. That was immaculate, well in the 13 years we lived there it went to hell in a hand basket and NOT because of black people but because of white trash that moved in and did not give a crap. It is trying to come back now as more Mexican families and other immigrants are moving in. So it is the people who matter in a neighborhood not what color they are. And the sooner the whites who are still doing the fleeing thing when blacks move in better figure that out real quick or they are gonna be living on the North Pole. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 325 Registered: 02-2007 |
From an email forwarded by a guy in touch with the journalist... "Sept. 8. We're meeting at 8:45 in the old Holy Name of Jesus Church parking lot. We will be in the park between 9 a.m and 4 p.m. for a cleanup, barbecue and softball game. Hope to see you there." More re: location... "The church is on the corner of Van Dyke and Doyle Street. Doyle is just a couple of blocks south of McNichols (6 Mile Road). The church is called Shield of Faith." | ||
Crumbled_pavement Member Username: Crumbled_pavement Post Number: 16 Registered: 08-2007 |
Maybe you'll see me there. Thanks Craig | ||
Fastcarsfreedom Member Username: Fastcarsfreedom Post Number: 187 Registered: 11-2005 |
Hmmm...as I read through this thread I hear the same old shuffle of misunderstanding and hatred. If the us/them thing still haunts, how are we ever supposed to fix this mess? | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 334 Registered: 11-2003 |
Now here is something interesting.... No wonder I felt motivated to help... talk about crazy coincidence I never knew... Just got my family genealogy book passed down to me today, and I just found out my grandparents and great grandparents lived near that neighborhood on Marjorie as well as Carrie Streets, WALKING distance from the park we're cleaning up and Dobel! In fact, I'm told, my relatives used to play at Fletcher, a decade or two before the writer. (Message edited by digitalvision on September 04, 2007) | ||
Papermoon Member Username: Papermoon Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2007 |
Last week, on a whim, I grabbed a sandwich to eat in the car on my lunchbreak to drive by my last Detroit address in the Lahser/Six Mile area just to take a look around. I moved away from that neighborhood in 1987, and had not been by the house since then. . . This was a nice, solid 1940's brick home that I bought in the 70's from a very old lady, who was the second owner of that home. She told me the original owners were a married couple, both Detroit High School biology teachers, and it was they who planted the cherry, crabapple, and other beautiful trees and shrubs in the yard. Being an avid gardener myself, having these mature plantings was a treasure, and I added roses, rhododendrons, perennials, vines, you name it. Well, you can imagine my disbelief when I pulled up in front of the house, and saw it was all gone! Every flower, tree, and shrub, down to the last stick, was gone. Even the summer porch I had built off the garage and surrounded with a garden, gone! The paperbirch in the front yard, gone. Although the grass overgrown and all the window blinds shut, the house itself didn't look too bad from what I could see in the car. Other houses up and down the block didn't fare so well, and were as trashed out and boarded up as the ones on Dobel Street. Luckily for me, at the time I lived there, my sister took a cutting of a Dwarf Flowering Almond for her own garden, and when I moved to my present home, I took a cutting from her. It blooms beautifully every spring, a reminder of life in another place and time. Papermoon, former Westsider | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 658 Registered: 07-2004 |
I think that little documentary is very touching, sad, and really shows you what happened with mistrust, hatred, and fear. That former resident did a very good job. I also think that video shows that Detroiters did not move, because their neighbourhoods were to crowded(yes some where, but the one in this video is not) or not suburban. Infact the neighbourhood looks downright suburban. People moved because of fear and hatred, not to get the "suburban" lifestyle, because they pretty much had it already. (Message edited by miketoronto on September 06, 2007) | ||
Whithorn11446 Member Username: Whithorn11446 Post Number: 139 Registered: 03-2007 |
"Infact the neighbourhood looks downright suburban." Compared to what ? Those houses you saw were the exception with that neighborhood. Most houses on that side of City Airport did not even have driveways because they were built in the 1920's and some even in the late 1910's. A good number of houses had upper flats. Lot sizes of 30X100, 30X110, and 32X110 were normal. It was a very blue collar area and lot people in those neighborhoods worked for Chrysler. The neighborhoods along Van Dyke from 6 Mile down to Harper were very densely populated. Then mix in the industry(Chrysler plus other shops),railroad tracks,retail and I sure as hell wouldn't call it suburban. If someone wanted to avoid the retail traffic on Van Dyke just north of Harper it was better to take St.Cyril because it was a BUSY area of the city. Other neighborhoods on the Northeast and Northwest had similar inner ring suburban style houses, but not this neighborhood. These "suburban style" houses on Dobel are more the exception compared to the rest of the neighborhood and are probably due to some lots in the late 1940's and 1950's being available to stick some houses on. | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 173 Registered: 09-2006 |
There are a lot of street signs missing on Van Dyke between Harper and 6 Mile, which adds to the challenge of finding the right location on an emergency run. It's a chronic problem that I've observed for years and haven't noticed anywhere else in the city. A curious phenomenon indeed. | ||
Ohudson Member Username: Ohudson Post Number: 278 Registered: 09-2004 |
So many of you point out neglect, but consider that nearly half of the population is gone. Wouldn't you think that half the population could only live in half as many houses? Of course some houses will sit vacant and eventually decay(with assistance of scrapers) to the point of disrepair, followed by demolition. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 1003 Registered: 06-2004 |
This is very informative and very shocking. I went back to the house I was born in on Santa Clara. I was pleased and suprized to see that the blocked looked okay, not much different than it did when we lived there 40 years ago. So much as been lost, and not just physically. There was a lifestyle and a sense of community with those old neighborhoods that's just gone. The kids could roam free in big packs after school, playing without supervision, running home for dinner or at sundown in the summer time. Today, even in the nicest of suburbs, kids under 12 just aren't allowed out on there own. a lady in on our street was prosecuted for leaving her 7 year old in the house alone. So bizzare. When I was seven I walked a mile down Coolidge by myself every day to 2nd grade, along with every other kid I knew. I guess I've gone off topic, but those pictures reminded me of a better time. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 361 Registered: 11-2003 |
I will say the cleanup was quite the success, with a couple hundred people coming out and a decent core group of workers, as well as a plethora of children who were very happy to have swings. Made new friends, and they even covered it on WWJ. I got there early and left a bit early - but am proud to say there are now painted swingsets with swings, a painted dolphin, turtle, and jungle gym, a cleaned up basketball court with benches, a garden planted, and a fence line now cleared of severe overgrowth. If I get pictures I'll post them up - was too busy working to shoot any. (Message edited by digitalvision on September 11, 2007) | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1615 Registered: 11-2003 |
6nois I asked the same question in another thread many weeks back. I don't think I ever really followed up, but I have been around a bit and I am quite certain the "pack and run" attitude (or at least to the degree we see in Detroit) is a very uniquely Detroit phenomenon. It was real (as it was in nearly every other city around the country) but for some reason it seems children and children of those children in the Detroit area are still suffering the same fears. Something happens and I know people who have moved because of it. I understand every place is unique, and I can't speak for all cities, but I feel many other large US cities the neighbors do fight this stuff, and they are successful with it. But beyond that, for some reason the racism festers horribly too, which is, deep down, probably the real reason behind it. but I do think it is uniquely Detroit. However, i have no way to know if they tried fighting it and it still didn't work. I know me personally, I'd fight it, but if I kept having break ins, gun shots, etc, I'd leave too. but that doesn't mean its just because it was Detroit. I'd do that anywhere. I suspect most people didn't fight. But I can't say that everyone who left didn't at least try to stick it out. Heck, we here stories on this board all the time of people who stuck it out. Unfortunately it wasn't enough. It is strange that instead of banding together in solidarity they band together by all bailing together..... Anyway, it is a Detroit thing. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 363 Registered: 02-2007 |
whithorn - ever been to the west side of the City? Excepting the showpiece neighborhoods of Rosedale, etc. Dobel looks a lot like miles and miles of Detroit. My informal survey tells that a huge number of homes (resembling Dobel, or Dobel built of bricks) went up post WW II. Again, excepting the high-end hoods you could start around Wyoming, travel west to Telegraph and see plenty which resembles Dobel in style of construction. | ||
Whithorn11446 Member Username: Whithorn11446 Post Number: 142 Registered: 03-2007 |
Craig-Yes I have been to west side of Detroit. I know that a lot of the west side is post World War II especially west of Southfield. Have you ever been to much of the east side ? Jefferson & Chalmers ? Houston-Whittier & Gratiot ? Mack & Conner ? Granted, a lot of houses are gone in those areas but the houses were mostly 1920's auto boom construction. Are you aware that the neighborhood directly west of City Airport is older than the neighborhood east of the airport ? The point I was making concerned the neighborhoods along Van Dyke from 6 Mile south to Harper and the fact it was not suburban looking. Most of the houses were on 30-32ft. lots with no driveways and a good number of upper flats scattered in. That street of Dobel is the exception not the rule for that neighborhood. This neighborhood developed largely because of the boom with the Chrysler factories during the 1920's. Finally, the types of houses you see on Dobel are more likely on the east side to be found north of 7 Mile or some areas east of Kelly(Warren&Cadiuex). All I was saying is that those types of houses were less common in that particular area. | ||
Greatlakes Member Username: Greatlakes Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2007 |
Update: Fletcher Playground: A Park Reborn http://download.gannett.edgesu ite.net/detnews/2007/news/0911 playground/index.html | ||
Chuckjav Member Username: Chuckjav Post Number: 32 Registered: 09-2007 |
There really is a Santa Claus, and grown-ass men have been known to cry; especially after viewing the slide shows. The reclamation of Fletcher Park is one of the most inspiring events I have ever seen. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 368 Registered: 02-2007 |
Whit - I'm a west-sider. Name a street and I can probably get you to it. I cross Woodward (dividing line of Detroit, BTW, at least to people raised here) and the compass starts spinning. I'll take your word for what you describe, but it sounds like a different Detroit from what I grew up with. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 1446 Registered: 07-2005 |
Why is Fletcher Playground not being maintained by the Detroit Parks & Recreation Department? | ||
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981 Post Number: 597 Registered: 08-2006 |
O.K umm everything I could possibly say has already been hashed out in the above posts. EXCEPT 1!- some advice from the "other" side of the fence. I'ts your neighborhood YOU can take it back. One undesirable person/dealer/crackhouse at a time. Step 1- heckle. sit on your porch and yell jeers at the "custos". Step 2- In the case of suburban kids run out waving a camera. "They don't know yet even if the police are called they won't do anything." These will take care of %70 of the problem. As for the other %30 dealers don't want to be hassled. They will follow the customers. | ||
586luvfor313 Member Username: 586luvfor313 Post Number: 9 Registered: 07-2006 |
I'm a Detroit Yes daily reader, yet I have only posted a couple of times. Let me share my story about Dobel, since my family lived there from 73-80. I'm first generation Albanian American. My parents came to this country in 1969. My parents saved up enough money after 4 years of working 2 jobs to finally buy their first house on 8158 Dobel.Which by the way still is standing. Until 1973 we lived in Hamtramck renting different flats. When we bought the house I was 3 years old. I loved the neighborhood and miss everything from Holy Name School, the corner fruit market, the free airshows at city airport.... etc. From the stories my parents told me and the things I remembered the neighborhood drastically changed starting in late 78. In late 1978, I noticed all my friends and their families were starting to move out. Little by little, the racial mix of neighborhood changed. Up until 1978 we never experienced any crime or problems personally or neither did my neighbors. That started to change and I'm not blaming a particular race for the increase in crime, I'm just stating a fact based on my families experience. Our garage was broken into monthly. We no longer could keep tools or bikes in the garage, since they would invite trouble. I continued to play with my white friends and also made new black friends. As the neighborhood started becoming more black, I noticed that my black friends stopped playing with me. I think now this was due to their families wanting them to play with fellow black kids. My fathers dream of home ownership started to become a nightmare. Our family continued to experience problems mostly racial. We were easy targets. We were white and my parents were immigrants. We finally were able to sell our house and until this day my dad tears up for having been forced to leave his first house. I continued to visit the neighborhood with my parents since my dad promised to visit and take care of the elderly lady next door. We visited her twice a month up until 1997, the year she died. I saw first hand how the neighborhood changed. I still drive by when on Van Dyke, but I can't seem to get enough courage to drive down the street, since my car-jacking attempt in 1989. When I think of Detroit, I think of Dobel and the good times I experienced. I still love Detroit and hopefully my kids can experience the Good Dobel Neighborhood Days as they grow up. Unfortunatly neighborhoods are no longer neighborhoods they are instead called subdivisions. Nick | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 49 Registered: 08-2006 |
Well said, Nick. Countless others have experienced same in their neighborhoods... | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6536 Registered: 02-2004 |
That's what you white folks get if you all left Detroit to the promise lands. Now most of you all living in your pleasantville-like cookie cutter homes while you all still in fear of an black and blighted very large Detroit ghettohoods. Today, do you all see on the local news that more suburban crime is like toward mostly black Detroit males coming from their broken homes in the ghettos? Most suburban Police force had increase the RACIAL PROFILING tactics to keep blacks out. It worked for Nazi-Livonia. That is why the suburb is the whitest city in Wayne County and the Metro-Detroit area. I can see while white folks who are now living near Detroit/Grosse Pointe Park borders along Alter Rd. looking a DEAD (C)KRAK HEAD or a schizoblack person just hanging a step away from a corner liquor store on Kercheval St. I've seen it happen. There's no Grosse Pointe Park Police force patrolling that area until they seen trouble. This is our way of life on Detroit and suburbs. Living between the borders of the ghetto and pleasantville like a invicible demarcation wall and nothing's going to change until we change ourselves. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 1450 Registered: 07-2005 |
Hey 586luvfor313, ignore Danny, he is clearly off his meds today. The poor obstetrician that delivered Dannyboy must have really clamped down extra hard on the forceps that was pulling him out by his microsaphalic skull during delivery... | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1318 Registered: 02-2006 |
That's great that they cleaned up the park, but there's not going to be many people using it except criminals. There aren't many houses left in that area. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 384 Registered: 11-2003 |
I look at it as creating promise. Sure, there is a cynical part of me that agrees with you, Focusonthed - but why stop trying? Even if you're right - and it all goes to hell in six months - If you give a person inspiration, even one, out of 200 plus that were there - then I feel like something was accomplished. It's really not about a new playfield - it's about hope, which, especially when you tread into the inner neighborhoods, the city needs a lot more of. | ||
586luvfor313 Member Username: 586luvfor313 Post Number: 10 Registered: 07-2006 |
Hey Danny... In response to your comment let me say the following: How about if I took your comments in turned them on you by saying the folllowing: You black folk wanted the Dobel that you created, now live with it. You wanted your all black neighborhoods, your black majority city council, your black mayor. Where are your black owned restaurants and stores? Now what??? Its funny how you ignore the points made in my story about black kids no longer playing with white kids. You don't acknowledge the increase in crime as the neighborhood demographics changed. You don't bring up anything about the racial prejudice my family experienced. Racism works both ways and Detroits problems aren't all the fault of the white man. Do you acknowledge that blacks have some blame? My original post was a story about my families experiences. No blame or excuses were made, but you ignore what I said and tune it into a White Flight and its all the White Peoples fault. Nick | ||
Whithorn11446 Member Username: Whithorn11446 Post Number: 147 Registered: 03-2007 |
Craig- Have you ever driven through much of Hamtramck ? The 2-story frame houses in Hamtramck are similar to what many neighborhoods on the east side(west of Conner) were like. Even a good number of houses south of Mack from Conner to Alter on the lower east side did not have driveways. Although those neighborhoods were mixture of frame and brick 2 story houses. Some friends that years ago lived in the E.Grand Blvd-Gratiot and a relative in Harper-Gratiot areas thought people living at Gratiot-Gunston were "rich" because they had driveways. I guess its all in perspective. My dad use to think that people that lived north of 6 Mile in a brick house and could park their car in the garage were "wealthy". | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 1464 Registered: 07-2005 |
http://www.cis.state.mi.us/pla tmaps/dt_image.asp?BCC_SUBINDE X=22341 | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 363 Registered: 07-2006 |
Some aerial photos of the Dobel Street area, for comparison. The area was so dense in 1967, yet now remains so empty. 1967:  Current:  |
