  Monahan568 Member Username: Monahan568 Post Number: 207 Registered: 04-2004 |
There seems to be a lot of racial tension on this site "Race complaint filed against Chesterfield Township police department" "The Black Perspective on Detroit' If we have this much racial tension on a simple web site how in the hell is detroit going to turn around? | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 612 Registered: 01-2004 |
Monahan: As long as there are different races on this planet...there will always be racism...everywhere. No one can change that. It started back in the Bible times. It was all apart of the Plan. I sat on the porch tonight thinking..for a very long time. Trying to figure out my definition of racism. In my own personal opinion, I see a racist as a person who doesn't like someone because of their skin color. So I took a long, hard look at myself. I don't look at a white person or an arab person, or any other race and automatically hate them. I don't automatically judge them, or automatically think negative things about them. However, I judge people by their actions. Each individual by their actions. For example, the Arab American man that I just saw at the store was very rude, and I have seen him be rude to neighborhood people all the time. I don't like him because of his actions. He could have been any color. On my way home, a couple of black men cut me off on the road trying to be cute driving crazy, they pissed me off, not because of their color, but because of their stupidity. On my way home from work, a white woman was cutting people off on the freeway and giving people the finger because she was brave driving behind that wheel..I thought she was an idiot because if her car cut off on her she would be up shits creek.,..not because she was white...because she was stupid. However, when each one of these events happened, I looked at each one and saw race. The Arab American who thinks he can treat neighborhood people any kind of way cause they own most of the neighborhood stores, and the black boys driving crazy because they are from the hood and don't know any better, and the white woman driving wild and giving people the finger...cuz you know if she got stranded she would be pissing her pants...she was only brave because she was behind the wheel. Am I racist? We all stereotype. I'm black and I stereotype my own people. Each of us stereotype our own people. Are we all racist even with our own races? | ||
Kaptansolo Member Username: Kaptansolo Post Number: 226 Registered: 07-2007 |
The answer to that question is yes and no Bratt. I think we have a pre-concieved idea about how we are "suppose" to act and most of the ideas are based in pride. Pride of one's heritage, country, town, team, etc., etc.. A lot of it is driven by commercial interests and many people just think that is the way they think because most are unaware of how influence works. I remember when I was in my early 20's and going to the car dealer with my Dad one time. GM was offering some new computer something or other feature on this new vehicle. I was really fascinated by whatever this thing was and before long my dad said, "stop acting like that". "You will make people think that you have never owned a new car" His brother was with us and my uncle said, "well...he has not" The funny thing about what my dad said was he had a "pride" about the world thinking that he and his offspring were used to owning new cars and it was no big deal. This is a somewhat abstract analogy but it can be applied to people and classes along with races. There was a Ford commercial that was out a few years ago with a black man driving with this serious look on his face. The music was like a cool jazz playing and the man never said anything and all of a sudden the commercial was over. They never mentioned the gas mileage or any other "spec". I was like damn, and you want me to buy this thing? But I realize that people looking to sell things to make money off you look for styles that "you" like. What a lot of people do not know is they will create a "need" if they have to...to get you to believe that you need something. Some Indian person watching the commercial might think that all black men are "smooth" and look cool when they are driving a "whatever" if it is red. Whatever the music was that was playing may cause some white dudes to think that if you play "smooth jazz" while cruising in the evening you will be cool. One black person watching might decide, I want one of those, another might decide as I did ...do they think we as black people are that stupid because when they show the next Ford commercial on a mini-van and they are showing a white family.....there are all of these specs and safety lists. The white guy might see it and become offended because he wants to know why do they always make us out to be boring with this tan van and all of these specs. The more we watch this kind of stuff we are influenced. What kind of music to buy and "who" listens to it. What kind of car to buy and "who" drives it. TV shows that inadvertently promotes things and stereotypes. Shows that "tell" you who is wearing tattoos and why. When we make certain purchases in the community we just soak our selves in pride about what we have or have just bought. As time goes on and socio-economic systems change...we assign races and classes of people to given categories and this is the root for racism. ...at least that is what I think. Our opinions are subconsciously based on this information that is fed to us. The different races are assigned to various styles sometimes on purpose to shift the "reality" and create new markets. We start saying things like, "you know how they are based on this or that". Sometimes we do it without actually saying it but we form the opinion in our minds. We go on being idiots and big business goes on to the bank. | ||
Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 486 Registered: 11-2006 |
There are certain white suburbs and areas in Detroit where I see a lot of shify-shady rough looking scroungy individuals that make me feel uneasy. Ghetto is about frame of mind and behaviour. There are class antagonisms in most societies. Agree with kap^^^^ not to mention the fact that big business doesn't share the wealth. | ||
Jiscodazz Member Username: Jiscodazz Post Number: 49 Registered: 02-2007 |
I agree with Monahan. What the hell is wrong with some of you people? Perhaps all of these semi-racist rants I've been reading lately are good reflection of the area. But we're on this forum to lift the city up, not tear it nor ourselves apart. You should start a DETROITNO forum. Leave the constructive dialog/disagreements to those of us who actually care. | ||
Humanmachinery Member Username: Humanmachinery Post Number: 79 Registered: 07-2006 |
I'm glad that people actually talk about their cultural, political, and economic differences now, rather than just sweeping them under the rug like we used to. You will hear a fair amount of ignorant bullshit, but dialog is best in the long run. These problems aren't going to solve themselves. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6477 Registered: 02-2004 |
The "R" word keeps burning in the Metro-Detroit area and it burning in ever thread. (Message edited by danny on September 07, 2007) | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 353 Registered: 02-2007 |
There's a simpler answer: this is the internet, friends. Stripped of the social constraints of face-to-face or even voice-to-voice interactions "we" devolve to egocentric beasts. An observation that has stayed with me from the "Devils' Night" account of Detroit: despite the geographic polarity, blacks and whites in Detroit (make that "metro area") are surprisingly congenial with one another. The point: in this medium there is a tendency to be selfish, both in terms of how we express ourselves and how we react to others. By this logic I would expect any pair of the perpetual duelists on these threads to have a civil and even friendly discussion around any controversial topic IF the exchange were face-to-face. No mystery, and no need to plumb the depths of our individual tolerance - the opening weeks of Psych 101 and Soc 101 account for the fracas seen on these threads. BTW - this is a forum for discussion, not indoctrination, therefore critical comments and skepticism should be welcome. The exiles of Fot Hudge and even the "haters" should be welcome. Truly: if one cannot tolerate dissenting POVs why are you wasting time in front of a PC instead of out implementing the wonderful rehabilitation plan that your intolerance implies that you posses? | ||
Jiscodazz Member Username: Jiscodazz Post Number: 51 Registered: 02-2007 |
I welcome opposing points of view(as you will notice in my first post). My main point was that a lot of the posts haven't been constructive and really just tear down the forum and the city. They seemed designed to push other peoples buttons, and not much beyond that. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1599 Registered: 11-2003 |
If we are judging people based on their actions, Bratt, I have to look at a person who would start a negative thread about white people in Detroit in spite because of the way a FEW white people talked on a thread about the black perspective and think that that person might hold some hostilities towards whites. I mean why else would someone lump one group of people together because of the actions of so few? | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1600 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: I mean if there isn't latent hostility there. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1454 Registered: 12-2004 |
I don't like ugly people, so I guess I'm an ugly-ist. No need to post a thread about it. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2028 Registered: 06-2006 |
Monahan: you make a good point...my take is that people from Detroit, both black and white, seem to spend a great deal of their time concerning themselves with race...and much of this time could otherwise be used for something more productive...i.e., improving their quality of life and such... by contrast, I don't think people from the suburbs, even the racist ones, spend too much of their day worrying about race...it's normally not even an afterthought in the typical suburbanite's day... | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 618 Registered: 01-2004 |
Gumby: I was making a point. I started that thread and it wasn't negative at all. I was looking for point of views. Why be so defensive? I got alot of good information from white people living in the city, especially ones who had children. And your one question: Why else would someone lump one goup of people together because of the actions of so few? Isn't this what goes on in America on a daily basis? From the beginning of time? | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 357 Registered: 02-2007 |
JD said: "I welcome opposing points of view(as you will notice in my first post)." But earlier said: "...we're on this forum to lift the city up, not tear it nor ourselves apart. You should start a DETROITNO forum. Leave the constructive dialog/disagreements to those of us who actually care." I not addressing you directly, JD (or attacking you), but the sentiment that some should not/never be heard is tiresome and degrades the quality of the discussion. If DY is to exclusively be a forum for solutions then the moderator better start chopping, because most of the threads and most of the posts on this site are irrelevant. | ||
Purplecharm Member Username: Purplecharm Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2007 |
In 2002, the Detroit Metro area was the most segregated area in the country. Perhaps this board is a reflection of that. http://www.detnews.com/special reports/2002/segregation/b03-3 90169.htm (Message edited by purplecharm on September 07, 2007) | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1601 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: If everybody Jumped off of a bridge, would you? I mean shouldn't we be striving to be better than previous generations. You make it sound inevitable, like we have no way of changing this. Regarding me questioning the intentions of your thread you have to admit it did come off as negative in the initial statements. I did not intend to say that you were like that, if it came off that way I apologize. | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 620 Registered: 01-2004 |
Unfortunately Gumby, you cannot change people and the way that they think. You cannot change households and how parents teach their children. It's just like there will always be thieves and liars and cheaters and murderers...some things you cannot change. There will always be hatred. Learning to deal with it is key. | ||
Michmeister Member Username: Michmeister Post Number: 237 Registered: 10-2006 |
Just for the record, can someone please explain the difference between racism and prejudice, is there a difference and do the two sometimes get mixed up? Or is this just being nit-picky? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1566 Registered: 04-2006 |
^Well, prejudice isn't specific to race. You can be prejudice against foreign cars... a LOT of that in metro Detroit, along with other types of prejudice... | ||
Michmeister Member Username: Michmeister Post Number: 239 Registered: 10-2006 |
I meant more in the way of human relations. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1567 Registered: 04-2006 |
^Well, that definition is a little more sketchy. Some people like to reserve the term "racism" as an act demonstrated by the dominant class (e.g. white people) against a minority class of people(e.g. native americans  ). Prejudice is a general form of that term, that is an act that people of any group can exhibit. | ||
Accraghana Member Username: Accraghana Post Number: 74 Registered: 07-2007 |
I would like to set one thing strait and that is the fact that whites cannot relate at all to the black experience in America. Can you relate to what it feels like to be descendents of a enslaved denigrated race of people who still live in the land of their oppression as a demographic minority to the racial group that oppressed you and were they ran the nation? Do you think that if millions of whites were taken from Europe, several centuries ago, and brought to Nigeria to be chattel slaves and were looked down upon and treated as inferior, sub human and were mentally conditioned to believe in their own inferiority, that they would be prospering socially and economically on the same level as Black Nigerians? Living under the domination of black Nigerians politically, economically and judicially, without having the leverage to really bring your issues to the table and have them addressed based upon YOUR ideas for solutions. Furthermore, having black opinion of the condition of European Nigerians dominate the media of Nigeria which decouples the explanation for the lagging and problematic European Nigerian population from centuries of slavery and discrimination by black Nigerians against Nigerians of European origin and inferring that it is whites themselves who are their own worst enemy? Can you relate to that? Sure, many of you like to think that the Irish or others had their own “black experience” in degree and kind with black people, but that is not true. The Irish was oppressed and exploited by England and by America but their “whiteness” muted the impact relative to blacks. You see the Irishman and the Englishmen don’t look that different. Without and accent or a surname to serve as a demarcation discrimination was not very affective. Moreover, it’s harder to argue the inferiority of a group when they look pretty much like you do. For blacks, on the other hand, there was no escape. You were easy to spot and identify regardless of your name or accent. Moreover, it was easier to propagate the idea of black inferiority when there was a radical difference in appearance and a radical difference in the distance from were you come from. The Jews…..well they are not living in the land of their oppressors are they? They were also a key successful part of European economy as bankers and financiers, which was the impetus for much animosity against them. So their success today is not surprising because they were a successful part of the system before they were persecuted. So when you stop to ponder racism and what it is, do not try to create a moral equivalence between blacks and whites. I think that after 300 years of abuse and denigration of blacks by whites, rationalized by the doctrine of black inferiority and white superiority, that blacks should quite naturally and humanely be a little resentful and distrusting of whites. Actions produce reactions and such resentment, if one understands human nature, will naturally manifest in a percentage of the population. On the other hand, what did blacks ever do to white people that created their resentment and dislike of black people? When all we wanted was to be free and to have equality……many whites hated us. Every black leader who fought for equality of black people was vilified and castigated by the white majority of their time. The same is true today with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton being despised by most whites. Sure, you can come up with your rationalizations about why you don’t like those two so that you will not feel “racist”, but the truth of the matter is that your behavior fits a long historical pattern of racism. Every generation of whites had their own “rationalizations” for continuing the historical pattern…..and contemporary whites are no different. For black people, what matters is the pattern. IQ test essentially measures pattern recognition and regardless of what you think of our intellectual capacity……that pattern is painfully clear…..regardless of how you rationalize it as being “different” from the past. (Message edited by accraghana on September 07, 2007) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10030 Registered: 10-2003 |
monahan - Didn't you recently start a thread about how you are mistreting in city hall for being white? Why try to take the high road now? I think that much of the issues of race on this board are that so many people are unwilling to acknowledge that racism is still prevalent. Many of those same people are unwilling to acknowledge that minorities still face challenges that others do not face. Until we start acknowledging the inequalitites amongst the races (as a whole, not on an individual basis) we will not be able to move forward. Sadly most people in SE Michigan seem to believe that there is a 'level playing field'. TJ - Do you honestly believe your post? | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 361 Registered: 02-2007 |
Well, Accra, if you're correct then we should get out the chalk and draw the line that divides the country. I'm a lot more optimistic than are you, though. I'm sure that "get over the past" is not the complete answer, but it must be an enormous piece of the solution. Without reconciliation we will always have war, and you've already noted who outnumbers whom. The options are pout, pack, or be a part of the solution. For my part I do my damndest to ensure that race is irrelevant in public and private life. Do you? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2033 Registered: 06-2006 |
Yes JT, I do...please offer your insight...do you think people in the suburbs dwell on the racial issue as much as or more than people in the city? My experience has been that people in the city hardly go day without talking about race and how the racial divide is such a large part of the current state of SE Michigan...I often hear about how people from the suburbs, especially the northern suburbs, are are most to blame for the current state of affairs in SE Michigan... The people from those suburbs, on the other hand...even the racist ones...well they tend to forget that the people in the city are even there...they've moved away and long forgotten about them....most of them aren't even aware that there's so much hate and blame aimed in their direction... (Message edited by thejesus on September 07, 2007) | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 2091 Registered: 12-2003 |
For example: Detroit is dangerous, full of crime. Detroit is majority black. Suburbs are safe, very little crime Suburbs are majority white. Blacks move into suburbs. Crime skyrockets. It is a sad reactionary tale played everyday. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1568 Registered: 04-2006 |
The people from those suburbs, on the other hand...even the racist ones...well they tend to forget that the people in the city are even there...they've moved away and long forgotten about them... Is that what they call white privilege? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2034 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Is that what they call white privilege?" No. I think you are confused about the term "white privilege"...it's something entirely different than what is being discussed here see here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W hite_privilege_(sociology) | ||
Accraghana Member Username: Accraghana Post Number: 75 Registered: 07-2007 |
Craig, How can you qualify TRUTH as pessimistic or optimistic? You say you are a lot more optimistic than am I and that my very well be true but optimism or pessimism will NEVER change the TRUTH. Solutions are born from dealing with the TRUTH. Your platitude of getting over the past is simply jingoism. In nature actions create reactions and over the temporal (time) continuum thus truth manifest as the present being the creation of the past. Hence, one cannot get over its creation. It’s like trying to get over the existence of your parents and pretending that their DNA has no influence on your DNA. You are proposing some sort of psychological hocus pocus or illusion by pretending that one can divorce the past from the present. Those who seek to sweep the past under the rug have a vested interest in keeping some truths under the rug. Pout, pack or be part of the solution you say? Who gets to define the solution? Can it be a problem that the traditional group doing the oppression has to much say in what the solution is or should be? Is not that rather akin to having the Fox serve as the security solution for the Hen House? No….race SHOULD be relevant because that is the only way to promote secular (long term) fairness. If we were passing out cookies giving two and 3 to whites, over a period of time, while giving none to blacks, then giving 2 to whites, while giving one to blacks for another period of time, white will have accumulated a lot more cookies that blacks. If you are attempting to promote fairness, then you cannot simply say from hence forth for every one cookie for whites there will be a cookie for blacks. That will still leave whites with a lot more cookies which is the surplus gained from years of denying blacks equal opportunity to cookies. In order to promote accrued fairness, instead of fairness defined by a moment in time, one needs to be conscious of race in order to identify who historically missed out so that they can be reconciled. |
