  Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 2972 Registered: 11-2003 |
Why is it that the knee-jerk reaction is to shaft the taxpayer at this time (you know, the person who has to work to earn that money that those wanting it covet)? Why is it that increases at several times the rate of inflation is never enough? Why is it that Lansing always has money to spend on areas that it has no business being in? Why is it that no one complains when departments blow their budget, and the guv sweeps it under the rug (until the election is over)? I'll post more later... | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3839 Registered: 10-2004 |
The health costs per Michigan teacher cost the taxpayers $17,000 for health protection worth only about $12,000. Why pay the additional $5000 (per teacher) for an already Cadillac health plan at $12,000 annually? Who gets or where does that $5000 go (for no real actual benefit--except for those crooks or cronies feeding at the public trough)? Let the government shut down for a time (by letting some "workers" stay at home--unpaid), so the tax-paying public will see how much could be saved. And cutting the fat out of the health cost plans for state employees is something that definitely has not been tried. There's enormous cost-saving there alone. Anybody with even half his brain energized knows--suspects that lots of cost savings are possible. (Message edited by Livernoisyard on September 07, 2007) | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 445 Registered: 07-2004 |
quote: quote: (cue sounds of crickets chirping as we wait to hear them publicly spell out their plans to cut billions of dollars in spending) | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 446 Registered: 07-2004 |
Oh, and those "Senate Republicans" have held control for 20 years or so - 12 with a Republican Governor. Why didn't they reform government then? Too busy raiding all the cookie jars while cutting taxes instead of making structural reforms? | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1904 Registered: 01-2004 |
"They are trying to ram the sales tax to 7%--a 17% increase. However, the voters must vote on that first." The Democrats are pushing for income tax increase. The Republicans are forcing a vote on sales tax increase as an alternative, which would be after the income tax increase is passed, and will replace the the income tax increase a few months later. What a bunch of weasels. Nobody will pull the trigger on anything. Hard to know specifically to hate, so I hate them all. Check out the absolute clearest resource of State information, Capital Correspondent Tim Skubick on Sunday mornings at 11:30 on PBS, or here: http://wkar.org/offtherecord/ (he also comments for FOX2) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3840 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:Duh! Do you really need to be told that Michigan wasn't yet broke then? This financial crisis would have hit even earlier in time had the spending been even higher in the past. Most, if not all, of those in state government are to blame--including the 56,000 employees. Why should anybody receive passes for their contributions/causes for the state's problems? | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1146 Registered: 12-2005 |
Why is it that in Michigan, each annual state budget grows at a rate that is larger than the annual growth in personal income? Growth in personal income is the least painful way of increasing the state's revenues since it automatically provides increases to both the income tax and sales tax revenues. Everyone knows that the current approach is unsustainable, yet the apparent solution in Lansing is to just take more from the taxpayers instead of also making some fundamental changes on the spending side of the budget equation. There is more than a quarter-billion dollars in potential annual savings through teacher pension and health care reforms that the Dems won't touch for fear of upsetting the teachers and their unions. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3841 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:And every $1000 saved from the health costs of the state workforce will effect another savings of $56 million annually. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 2358 Registered: 03-2006 |
quote: quote: Sorry it was 2 AM when I last posted on this thread so I had to sleep. I think the proposals here should all be given consideration: http://www.mackinac.org/articl e.aspx?ID=7602 If we are truly paying $17,000 per year per teacher for health insurance that is idiotic. I am paying about 1/4 of amount for individual coverage for me and my kids and I am not even in a group. (Message edited by perfectgentleman on September 07, 2007) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2722 Registered: 06-2004 |
Right, try to improve the schools by cutting teacher pay and benefits. That'll work. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 2359 Registered: 03-2006 |
Why should teachers be given these Cadillac health plans while the rest of us have had to sacrifice? Tax increases will only cause more productive people and entrepreneurs to leave the state which of course will cause more budget shortfalls putting us on the downward spiral. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3842 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:Let's make the poor education in Michigan even worse by overpaying teacher pay and benefits even more. That'll work! | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 312 Registered: 12-2006 |
So far what you people are suggesting for cuts won't even come CLOSE to the $1.8 Billion gap in the budget. $56 million is a great start, but that's just a drop in the bucket. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3843 Registered: 10-2004 |
Duh! That $56 million is just any possible savings of $1000 per state employee. Let's cut more than $1000 from each in perquisites, salaries, and other sundry nonessentials. Let's scrutinize everything they get, how much is really needed, how much is wasted, how much could be saved from intelligent alternatives, and work from there. Hint: Cost parings of $56 million wouldn't be even close to what could/should be effected (Message edited by Livernoisyard on September 07, 2007) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2724 Registered: 06-2004 |
PG, what health insurance do you have that covers a family at ~ $4,200 annually? $350/month? You must have nothing more than major medical. Or you're on a state assistance program. Specifics, please, and who's the carrier? | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 449 Registered: 07-2004 |
Doesn't sound out of line - I have my enrollment papers right in front of me: Blue Care Network HMO - $58/week for Family BCBS PPO - $83/week $30 office visits, $10 generic prescriptions HMO has $50 Urgent Care and $100 ER copays, then 100% coverage PPO has $30/$50 copays and $500 family deductible, and a bunch of other nonsense I don't understand. I'm still opting out to get a $75/month cash-in-lieu payment because it is cheaper yet to be insured by my wife's company. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2725 Registered: 06-2004 |
Is this the new individual coverage BCN HMO? Our BCN group coverage is nowhere near that low, with at least $1,000 hospitalization. | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 450 Registered: 07-2004 |
re: the Mackinac Center... quote: A bunch of guesses and estimates - especially considering the vague $300 million they tack on at the end from stimulated growth. Do these next ideas look like they would bring new residents in droves? quote: A less-educated workforce that can't get to work? Awesome! I'll open three businesses right now! | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 21 Registered: 06-2007 |
Just a thought here on tax increases. Either one technically is deducted on your federal tax return so we're getting a portion of any tax increase back from the Feds. Technically. Professorscott, What is the impact of legalizing the growing and sale of marijuana in relation to the federal dollars we would be giving up (if any)? | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 313 Registered: 12-2006 |
Livernoisyard, So how much do we cut from health insurance for state employees? $1,000? $2,000? More? Where do we draw the line? Also, where are all the other cuts that make up the $1.8 billion. I've heard so much about how there is no need for new taxes and the state can cut its way out of this. Yet whenever the no new tax crowd is asked to come up with real cuts to eliminate the gap their suggestions don't even come close. | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 451 Registered: 07-2004 |
'pup, i realized my coverage is a group plan through work, not individual coverage, so it might be an apples/oranges comparison. I don't know much about insurance. I do know that teacher benefits are the holy grail of the MIGOP though. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 2363 Registered: 03-2006 |
quote: Golden Rule - and it covers everything, including office visits. They paid about 175 grand for my surgery without complaint and I was not canceled or given a rate increase. The prescription coverage is so-so. The deductible is $1000 annually. We have to get over this notion that teachers are like sacred cows who should be exempt from the sacrifices the rest of us make. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3844 Registered: 10-2004 |
Let's not limit any cost savings to health costs. It doesn't require a Mensa IQ to be able to realize that not every state job/employee is truly necessary. The largest savings would obviously emerge from state job eliminations. [Only a wee bit OT:] Just why did the tort attorneys and the teachers' unions become the #1 and #2, respectively, contributors to Granholm's two election campaigns? Because they're overly generous or have excess money to throw around? Most intelligent, objective observers would suspect a quid pro quo being intended. Michigan needs a governmental shutdown (temporary reductions in workforce, programs, etc.) because the status quo hasn't been nor can it be sustainable. Eventually, it's the private sector that pays for the excesses of the state, and that private sector is reacting by its members migrating from Michigan--businesses, entire industries, or its residents. These brain and capital drains will not stop until or unless Michigan halts its overly aggressive socialism and taxation. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 2367 Registered: 03-2006 |
If they shut the state government down, how will we know the difference?  | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 359 Registered: 02-2007 |
Crazy idea... How about a "cottage" tax? A lot of home away from homes and vacation places in this state and hardly any tax paid on them. So what if it deters ownership? It may even deter city folks from going up north and clogging the rural areas and inland lakes with kept or unkept retreats. Base it on a percentage of the tax on their primary residence. Or just raise taxes in these rural areas period. Only in the US would we allow our natural resources to be abused so. Almost every lake in this state is lined with a hyper-concentration of cottages belching lawn fertilizers and raw sewage. Seriously, tax woes just shouldn't be happening in this state at all. We have more natural generation of revenue than most all other states, the Great lakes. Generating 14.1 Billion annually alone in licenses fees and permits. Not to mention the tourism which generates retail and the associated tax. It must be taking some serious mismanagement to be in this shape. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 314 Registered: 12-2006 |
If a government shutdown occurs, here is a handful of the things that would happen Welfare checks would stop being issued so those on assistance would lose their income temporarily Unemployment checks would be effected in the same way. This has an effect on private businesses because these people aren't receiving the money they typically spend. Doctors would not receive payment for services they provided to medicare and medicaid recipients All state owned facilities will shut down, including those used by the public such as state parks. Contracts won't be let so critical road construction and other services that the state government sub-contracts will be delayed. As I said, these are just a handful of the things that will happen. I'm sure there are plenty more that I haven't thought of. | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 22 Registered: 06-2007 |
I love that idea Livernoisyard. Shut the entire government down for 3 months. No car sales because the Sec. of State is closed. No State Police. No school/college because they haven't been paid yet. No MEGA/Brownfield/Renaissance Credits for economic development (you know, the one's that Virginia just gave to VWoA to the tune of $6mil). No food inspections. No liquor sales after your local grocers stock runs out. No road or bridge repairs. No inspection of tractor-trailers on the highways. No welfare, medicare, medicaid payment processing. Prisoners? What prisoners? Probationer and parolee monitoring gone. No monitoring of state investments (hope the stock market doesn't do anything). No acceptance of corporate filings. No non-profit filings. No AG's prosecuting cases, criminal or civil. No tax collections (although many would like this). No child welfare programs. No foster-child checkups. FIA? What FIA? County Jails would have to hold all convicted felons since transport would be down. Fires in the UP? Let them burn. Need a driver's license renewed? Nah. Occupational licensing for doctors, accountants, mortgage lenders, mortgage brokers? Nah. State audits of your banking institution? Nah. Lottery sales? Nah. Your trip going snowmobiling at a state park? Nah. All those businesses in downtown Lansing? Nah. County services degrading because they no longer get revenue sharing (what is left of it) from the State because no one collects it for them? Yep. Brilliant idea. I'm not saying state government doesn't need a thorough whacking with a broom but the trite rhetoric is about as useless as spanking a monkey to make butter. Our tax system is messed up. If you ask any economist what the tax rate for business should be in order to most optimize growth, the answer is 0%. If however, you ask businesses what they want in a local economy as a draw, they want a well-functioning government with enough regulation to ensure fair competition, transparency of government, an educated work-force, and sufficient infrastructure to support continued expansion. If your tax rate is 0% on business, who do you think is left paying for the above-mentioned things that businesses want? You and me. Choose what you want. It's a simple question really. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3845 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yet another duh! The entire state government won't shut down due to finances. Families don't cease to exist because they cannot further afford to spend for everything that they spent on earlier. Obviously, a priority system involving what to cut, etc., would ensure that those functions considered more necessary would continue. Sheesh! This point should be obvious... | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 277 Registered: 11-2004 |
Duh...why didn't I think of this sooner? Lay off all state workers for the entire year...that should save about $3.5 billion. No more deficit!!! Yay!!! I wonder if the Legislature is considering this? | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 316 Registered: 12-2006 |
The only good thing about a government shutdown is that the legislature wouldn't get paid either. If you want to talk about people not earning their money. They are supposedly "full time". I wish I had a full time job where I could only have to work 9 days a month. |
