  Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1560 Registered: 04-2006 |
They're suburbs of DC. Which kind of underscores the point. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5280 Registered: 08-2004 |
Yeah LY, it blows that EVERYBODY voted Jenny in. What the hell were we thinking??? Ditto for Bush. As to the website not mentioning Detroit... that's odd, as we all know most companies ALWAYS keep their websites current.... | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 254 Registered: 02-2006 |
First of all, I am absolutely sick and tired of the horseshit concept that you can't attract talent in Metro Detroit. There is a LOT of talent here already, and it's the lack of employment that is typically cited when people leave. Otherwise, people consider this a pretty good area to live, despite what the morons on the detnews/freep forums might indicate. In my travels I have never been so blown away by another state to say Michigan sucks in comparison. Given the right opportunity, I don't see any reason why someone wouldn't consider living here. My understanding is that Volkswagen is losing money in NA because of poor direction from their German parent, in addition to considerable quality and customer satisfaction problems. But, of course, I'm sure a move to DC will solve this problem without a doubt. The presence of Audi & VW drivers will help the accounting staff balance the books better. Those nasty UAW bosses pounding on their doors will be miles away. Secondly, I really don't understand their motivation to move to Herdon, VA. Look it up on google maps. It's sprawlville; most of Fairfax county is. Before somebody corrects me (I'm looking at you, Dan), I have to admit I've never been to the area. I am basing my opinions on internet research only. That said, what the hell does it offer over Auburn Hills? If you're looking for sprawl, Oakland County is a great place to live. They're getting a tax break to move, but the move itself will be costly. I also feel like this is a story that everyone in Michigan (media, especially) will just LOVE to grab ahold of. Look! The incompetent governor just lost us more jobs! Shut the lights off when Michigan goes down the tubes! Blame the UAW! Our taxes are too high and our services suck! A one state recession! I don't even know what to make of this. I need a drink. I'm pissed off. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 101 Registered: 07-2007 |
"BTW, Virginia is a right to work state. True or not, Michigan has gained the reputation as a high-tax, union, business unfriendly state." Not sure what this has to do with HQ positions. I very much doubt there are many union people in the VW headquarters. You might be able to make this argument about business reputation in general but it doesn't seem to apply at all to this decision. "it seems that the ineptness the state and local governments were either unable or unwilling to step up and compete with Virginia's aggressive marketing package" What do you base that on? From the details in the article, the incentive package was pretty modest. $6 million is a chunk of change but nothing Oakland County, Auburn Hills and the state couldn't have matched. I doesn't sound like the incentives were very important to their decision to move. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1562 Registered: 04-2006 |
Before somebody corrects me (I'm looking at you, Dan), I have to admit I've never been to the area. I am basing my opinions on internet research only. That said, what the hell does it offer over Auburn Hills? If you're looking for sprawl, Oakland County is a great place to live. They're getting a tax break to move, but the move itself will be costly. Well, I've been there and I totally agree that they are jumping from the pot into the kettle (they even have a Telegraph Rd! lol). Sure, people might tend to be more open to foreign cars on the coasts, but last time I checked VW was still lagging the Asians. Methinks they need to do a soul-search much like the American companies about why they're losing money here... | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 711 Registered: 12-2006 |
Gistok, Cerberus does not mention Detroit because Cerberus does not have an office or any presence in Detroit. They are the majority owner of the Chrysler Group, but they own a lot of things, and just because they own something doesn't mean they have to have an office nearby. Everybody, This from Grosseile's post says it all: "low crime, superb schools, low state and local taxes, high quality government services, etc." Instead of bashing each other back and forth because our views differ, why not answer this: why don't we offer those things, and what will it take to get there? We can't solve our problems unless we at least admit they exist. | ||
Rooms222 Member Username: Rooms222 Post Number: 30 Registered: 04-2005 |
Remember, VW tried to do things the "right" (Detroit) way and failed back in the '80s. Their Westmoreland PA plant (1981-87) was UAW. They moved the headquarters to Detroit and are built a plant in Sterling Heights (of their own accord). The quality of the US-built VWs was excellent, as good or better as the German ones. In 1988-89, the Golf and Jetta started being sourced from Mexico. This ancient legacy complex, much like the Rouge, has not had decent quality, and they even fired the entire workforce in the '90's, but it did not fix the quality problems. VW has been unable to source their cars in the US market in a way that is cost effective enough to make profits and have affordable prices and satisfy the buyer that it is a good, quality value. Sort of similar to the Big 3, except it is legacy costs rather than exchange rates, and the big three has better quality, but a worse brand image. I owned 4 VWs, but won't buy one from that horrible Mexican plant. It's funny, Ford's "green field" Mexican plant is excellent, daughter has a trouble-free zx2 she bought from there for peanuts, because of Ford's bad name. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3205 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: You'd be surprised. Virginia is quite a wealthy state. Even little ol' Richmond has 14 Fortune 500 headquarters. But yeah, Herndon is way the hell out in the sprawl. Like I've said previously, it's Auburn Hills with bad traffic (and starter vinyl-sided homes going for half a million bucks). I have to bristle every time the news calls it "DC" though. Those of us who live in the urban core consider Herndon to be FAR. Frankly, I don't understand the move. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2704 Registered: 06-2004 |
more visible / better access to the power centers (given our guys couldn't even get a damned lunch date) | ||
Ro_resident Member Username: Ro_resident Post Number: 267 Registered: 11-2003 |
It looks like 600 VW jobs are going to stay in Michigan--300 VW employees and 300 contract workers. 400 positions are moving to Virginia. That leaves approximately 400 people looking for work. I'm sure things are pretty tense as people are waiting for word if they are to a) stay in Mi, b) move to Va, or c) told to pack up their stuff. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1548 Registered: 11-2003 |
On the topic of Michigan companies investing in Michigan, there was an article in the Freep yesterday about Dan Gilbert creating a venture capital fund to help start Michigan companies get started (and companies outside Michigan, but mostly MI). They want to help our state because they believe in it. Although it is a shame that VW is leaving, they are a struggling company. But that is beside the point. We as voters need to elect a state government that is going to help fix the problems, not stall and point fingers. DeVos vs Granholm left us very little to choose from to help. And a 2010 DeVos vs. Cherry is not any better. Our parties need to put forth candidates that will care more about doing their jobs and less about party politics. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3834 Registered: 10-2004 |
There was a time when Michigan was part of both Virginia and Massachusetts. quote:Even with Cerberus owning 51% of GMAC, Chrysler will now amount to a significant part of Cerberus's revenue. In 2006, the Chrysler Group had revenues of $47 billion (down $3 billion from 2005) but still lost over $1.1 billion (operating loss). We'll track the Cerberus Web site for when or if they ever include Metro Detroit among its US managerial cities of Atlanta, Chicago, NYC, and LA. Even with its majority ownerships of both GMAC and Chrysler already, it chose not to... | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 889 Registered: 11-2003 |
This move is based on nothing more than marketing intangibles. You can bet that very few VW managers can identify even a single instance of a "creative" type job applicant that rejected a job offer based on negative feelings about Detroit. It is highly unlikely that any sort of objective financial analysis was completed to support the move. It is much more likely that many of the decision-makers involved in the HQ move have ties to the area, or at least to the Boston-DC corridor. That is how these decisions are made. While the Herndon area might not be the worst sprawlsville surrounding DC (Prince William and southern Fairfax Counties are mind-numbing and traffic-choked), it has no QOL advantages over Oakland County. Indeed, cost of living is higher and traffic is worse in most of No. Va. compared to Oakland County. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 712 Registered: 12-2006 |
Bob, I think 90% of the problem lies with our state legislators and local governments. They are more interested in keeping their phony-baloney jobs than in doing anything positive to improve conditions in Michigan. If that's not so, then try finding another theory to explain why they do what they do. We need actual leaders, as opposed to what we have, but the Governor (whoever it is at any given point) can't do much by himself or herself. Having said that, though, I agree; neither DeVos nor Granholm has put forth any creative ideas to improve Michigan. None of any substance, anyhow. As long as we have a legislature full of three-year-old boys fighting over who gets to play with the toy car, we will never improve as a state. You would think having a rock-bottom economy and relative population loss would spur people into action, but these clowns don't seem remotely capable. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1549 Registered: 11-2003 |
ProfessorScott, I completely agree with you on our legislature. | ||
Rooms222 Member Username: Rooms222 Post Number: 31 Registered: 04-2005 |
Since it's the end of the marketing group in Detroit, here is an ad about the end of a Volkswagen. http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_A Npajbyvk This ad appears to be South African, remember when Mandela came to Detroit? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3207 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: But compared to Auburn Hills, it's a hell of a lot closer to a growing international airport. Not a small consideration when you're main HQ is in Germany. Agreed that quality of life in Fairfax County isn't any better, save perhaps their schools are one of the top ten districts in the nation. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 102 Registered: 07-2007 |
"But compared to Auburn Hills, it's a hell of a lot closer to a growing international airport." If you fly commercial. Otherwise, most corporate jets fly out of Oakland International in Waterford. That's where teams bound for the Palace go as well as the President when he comes into town. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 103 Registered: 07-2007 |
"Bob, I think 90% of the problem lies with our state legislators and local governments. They are more interested in keeping their phony-baloney jobs than in doing anything positive to improve conditions in Michigan." Did I miss something? Was it the Governor and the Mayor who ran the Big 3 for the past 30 - 40 years making decisions that have led the state economy into the position we're in today? Why is it that we preach the "free market" and "private sector" but when things go to crap, it's the job of the government to fix everything? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 713 Registered: 12-2006 |
Novine, It was the governments that decided to bow down and pray to the automotive sector to the expense of everything else, and to make everything in our quarter of the state revolve around automotive, to give kids just enough education to get a job "on the line", and so on. We, that is our representatives in the government, made decisions that made Michigan unattractive to modern businesses. Business does not exist in a vacuum and there is no free market in the United States with regard to business location decisions. States and localities choose to subsidize certain types of business in various ways, and try to dissuade other types of business. Buy a copy of the game Sim City or any of its derivative games. That's a great exercise both in understanding the limited nature of government authority and in understanding how, despite the limitations, government decisions have widespread (and often unintended) consequences. Look at the Dearborn-Detroit border from an airplane and tell me with a straight face that government doesn't factor in to business decisions. The fact that the big three went to garbage is not the point. The point is, all we have is the big three. That was a bad decision. Prof. Scott | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1573 Registered: 08-2006 |
Sadly our Educational Centers have strived to provide local businesses with the talent they need beyond basic laborer jobs. The problem is the needs of these businesses evolve faster than anyone can keep up. And their needs are for cheap labor rather then high skill level. My degree program has changed recently based on input from the big 3 and I just found out the jobs that my degree is supposed to be good for are currently favored to give out to India rather then home grown talent. | ||
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248 Post Number: 916 Registered: 10-2006 |
So, Volkwagen's excuse for why its losing money is that it is located in Michigan? Hybridy, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees how totally ridiculous this lame excuse is. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1564 Registered: 04-2006 |
"My degree program has changed recently based on input from the big 3 and I just found out the jobs that my degree is supposed to be good for are currently favored to give out to India rather then home grown talent." Man, that's everybody, lol. I just recently had an interview with a division of a multinational and they told me they had 3,500 workers in this particular division. 500 were split between New York and London and 3,000 in India. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1457 Registered: 01-2005 |
How are those poor bastards going to sell their homes, let alone get anywhere near a profit, in this market? And everything is much more expensive in that area. Plus, they are no closer to Germany by being there, but further away from other, major OE's in Michigan. This is a DUMB plan. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5286 Registered: 08-2004 |
Quinn, You bring up a very good question (sale of houses). I wonder how the 200 top execs at Comerica are going to get away with their move to Dallas, if they cannot sell their houses? I wonder if Comerica is going to buy their houses from them (their top management)? I know if I were a Comerica shareholder, this would be one question I would ask at the next shareholder meeting. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 357 Registered: 02-2007 |
As far as a costly move. It doesn't cost much for a business to move. It's really a win-win for them most of the time. They expense out the costs, where they're going gives them cash incentives among many other perks just for doing it. In the form of low or no taxes, free water etc etc. Companies leaving an economically battered area is a given. Especially when that area makes absolutely no attempt in keeping them. I know Virginia has folks going around the area trying to entice owners to move. Does Michigan have any of these folks in Virginia. This state need to get off it's high horse and realize we're just another area to operate and with the unions and state laws governing labor, not a very good one. | ||
Adm70 Member Username: Adm70 Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2005 |
This is a good argument for people and communities in MI to support one another, rather than be so divided, especially in Metro Detroit. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3838 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:Those contract jobs are sunk costs, so VW would have to pay for those services for the duration of those contracts. VW might as well derive as much use from them for the time being. However, expect the 300 contractor jobs to be toast also when their contracts expire and will not be renewed. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6475 Registered: 02-2004 |
Don't blame Granholm for this VW mess. Those German automakers had made a choice to move their WHQ to the Commonwealth of Virginia. Good riddance to them. SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2765 Registered: 10-2003 |
LY, those contract jobs have an immediate termination clause. They can be cut at anytime for any reason, Just like any other non-union employee. I've been a contract employee for the last 17 years. I've never seen or heard of an auto contract position without a similar clause. I've only been cut once and I was back to work within a few weeks. |
