  Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2044 Registered: 06-2006 |
...and Flint is #3... http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070908/B IZ03/709080395&imw=Y | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 285 Registered: 08-2007 |
"African-American borrowers in Wayne County were sold subprime loans 87 percent of the time in 2006, compared with 65 percent for Latinos and 45 percent for whites." And white people were complaining of poor treatment by city workers because they were white? Wow. Life is a bitch for them. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 858 Registered: 05-2005 |
Maybe there were sold said loans cause they didnt read the fine print or even think/care about what the future would bring Wow, boofuckinhoo for them. | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 162 Registered: 02-2007 |
Oakmangirl...you are way off base. Is that how you solve all your problems...by throwing the race card out there whenever someone can't take responsibility for their own actions? If you don't have the money, don't get the loan...plain and simple. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 286 Registered: 08-2007 |
Not everyone is as educated or clued-in to consumer finance as you, Miss_cleo. This is where they get the term "predatory lending". | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 287 Registered: 08-2007 |
Buyamerican, The stats speak for themselves; those numbers are taken from the article. I'm not playing any "race card"- it's more a matter of greedy people preying on uneducated, lower income individuals. I made reference to a previous post to highlight that if all one, based on skin color, has to complain about is poor customer service...well, we should all be so lucky. Guess many of you hug your copies of "Atlas Shrugged" every night. No wonder this country is so fucked up. Yoohoo, Kaptansolo, where are you? | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9779 Registered: 10-2003 |
Could it be that because Detroit is the poorest city in the USA, many people have to rely on these types of mortgages? | ||
Accraghana Member Username: Accraghana Post Number: 85 Registered: 07-2007 |
Oakgirl thank you. First of all, lending institutions have historically been held to fiduciary responsibility. In other words, they are seen as trusted entities in our economy, kind of like the police. If the police pull you over and then rob you, would you say that it was your fault for stopping in the first place? No. That is because there is an expectation of trust and laws protecting you. Banks and financial institution carry a fiduciary responsibility and traditionally have. Moreover, banks don’t lend out their money…they lend out the money of their depositors in theory. So not only do these institutions have fiduciary responsibilities, they have a responsibility to their depositors not to lend out their money when there is a high risk of it not being paid back, which will make the bank insolvent. Secondly, with that as the background, what CHANGED was not the behavior of the poor or marginal in regards to credit, but rather, the behavior of the financial sector and its breach of its fiduciary responsibility and standards as it salivated to make money off the relative poor. We all should realize that financial institutions CANNOT make money off people with good credit and good incomes, as the general rule. Lending institutions make money off interest charged and fees. That is were their profit comes from. People with good credit and good income get rewarded with so low interest rates and get charged so fee fees, that the banks cannot profit from them. People who can afford to pay off their credit card bill before the month end actually end up costing the bank money. Some of these people actually receive “Points” for purchases and get paid from the credit card company each month. Lending institutions quickly learned that thee most profitable segment of their business was the lower middle class. They sought to expand their profit margins by expanding to the lower class, charging them extremely high interest rates and profiting from the fact that this demographic would likely only make the minimum monthly payment, thus extending the interest income racked up by the bank. Furthermore, these were also the demographic that would get charged the late fees as well as overdraft charges and other inflated punitive charges. So the banks came after a certain demographic with zeal and that demographic was the marginally poor. Anytime an entity targets the poor, it de facto become racial because the consequence of years of racial discrimination upon today is that blacks are disproportionably poor. This is why cities and areas with disproportionably large black populations have high default rates as a general rule. Most white people in America are so brainwashed about the system. However…. you will soon have a rude awakening. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1580 Registered: 04-2006 |
If you don't have the money, don't get the loan...plain and simple. Why didn't the government have the same philosophy when they bailed out these financial services institutions that bought the securities that backed these loans? Those idiots were a lot more educated about the risks than the homeowners who got stuck with these mortgages. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1628 Registered: 10-2006 |
"Could it be that because Detroit is the poorest city in the USA, many people have to rely on these types of mortgages?" Actually these people thought that what they were doing would help them out, but they didn't do the proper research. People that have a sub prime loan have no one to blame but themselves. It is often like people to try and find a way to place blame on someone else to try to minimize their own fault in the situation. Guess it is just the way that humans operate... "...and raises concerns about the role aggressive lenders may have played in the loss of homes by thousands of area families." The only thing 'aggressive' about these loans was their marketing. No one forced someone to redo his loan; it was stupidity that did. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2046 Registered: 06-2006 |
This type of lending practice is not justified... Even if you think these people deserve what they get because they were too dumb to read the fine print, the predatory lenders should not be allowed to benefit from this kind of practice...they use misleading sales pitches and basically just keep calling names on their call list until they find someone who isn't smart enough to realize they are being tricked into doing something detrimental to their well being... This is not good business and the public has a valid interest in discouraging the practice... | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1629 Registered: 10-2006 |
but then you would have to define what 'predatory lending' is. Who wants to get into that? It should always be up to the individual signing on the line to fully know what he or she is getting into! | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 861 Registered: 05-2005 |
You guys are just too much! Why cant it be that every one suckered in by these too good to be true loan were, well, suckers? All of them. regardless of race. Why does race matter? They were all equally stupid! | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1631 Registered: 10-2006 |
Miss_cleo, unfortunately, it was the Detroit News article that made it an issue of race and not stupidity. | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 163 Registered: 02-2007 |
When you are closing on a home, before you dot the i's and cross the t's, it's your responsibility and yours alone to make sure there are no hidden costs, small print that you don't understand, or shady figures in the package. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 290 Registered: 08-2007 |
So that means, if you never learned to read or never got that dyslexia under control, but as a grown up feel too embarrassed to seek help, you don't deserve to own a home without fear that a financial lender is going to screw you? It's a good thing our financial futures don't rest on the ability to recognize an apostrophe when we see it or overcoming laziness in seeking out that elusive *shift* key; some of us out here would be screwed. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1634 Registered: 10-2006 |
"So that means, if you never learned to read or never got that dyslexia under control, but as a grown up feel too embarrassed to seek help, you don't deserve to own a home without fear that a financial lender is going to screw you?" This is probably less than 1% of those with sub prime mortgages--don't change the subject! | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 355 Registered: 08-2007 |
Race matters if the effect of supposedly equal treatment has a disparate impact upon a minority population. Predatory lending was the term coined to describe the effects of these subprime loans upon the people who took the bait, thinking they were finally getting a chance at home ownership. Things were predicted to get better and better through the nineties, so surely they would earn more and be able to continue paying the high interest loans. But, late fees, doubled up payments, and rising interest rates defeated them. The lenders took back the properties at a great rate, and, for at least the first few years, recouped their value as the property values rose. | ||
Aoife Member Username: Aoife Post Number: 22 Registered: 04-2007 |
I understand what you mean, Oakmangirl, but people can ask for help from family members or friends if they feel embarrassed. The first time I took got a mortgage I had them give it to me in advance, so I had plenty of time to read it. I was really young, so I had my more experienced friends look at it as well, then I made a list of questions I had. Now I am not dyslexic or illiterate, but I am ignorant for the most part about home mortgages, which is why I sought help. I think people sometime see something that looks too good to be true, but they don't want to question it. Sometimes because they don't want to lose that hope that they can improve their lot in life, and sometimes because they don't think ahead, and sometimes other reasons. Lenders need to make sure their patrons are informed and understanding of what they are getting into. It helps no one when they give a mortgage to someone who cannot keep it up- the person will lose their house and ruin their credit, and then the rest of the neighborhood suffers because the foreclosed house is sold on the cheap, driving other prices down. That's what has been happening in my neighborhood, at least. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 291 Registered: 08-2007 |
Charlottepaul, Just figured since you think predatory lending is okay, you felt the same for bait and switch. Besides what is the subject anymore? I quoted the stats from the article but really see this more as an issue of advocacy for poor people who really want to live the American dream, but weren't given the same tools to be as self-reliant as you'd like. Maybe that means they're uneducated and/or can't read or *stupid*. Miss_cleo went off the deep end with race, though I do think it plays a part in the sense, like Gaz says, that minorities are more effected. Gaz, thanks for the succinct definition. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1635 Registered: 10-2006 |
All in all, it isn't good for the mortgage company if they have to repo the house (as we can see in today's market) so it isn't as though the mortgage lender would not answer any question the homeowner would have. Educate yourselves people! No reason to blame someone else for your lack of it! | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 356 Registered: 08-2007 |
I have said this before, I will keep on saying it. The systems of this country were set up to favor and benefit the white male property owners who founded the nation. They continue to favor white, male, property owners. There are additional hoops to jump through for non-property owners, and the wickets are stickier for women and people of color, just from institutional habit. Rules are rules. No matter that they cause an unequal effect, and some inequalities of access exist. The privileged do not see this, because it doesn't exist for them. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 292 Registered: 08-2007 |
Aoife, I realize people can ask for help, but many do not and even educated people, myself included, have a hard time with legal wording. I do agree that it's human nature to see what we want to see, and I certainly don't believe in a victim mentality. What pisses me off is the elite black/white assumptions (no that wasn't a race card, Cleo) made about people who are taken advantage of; people have shades of grey that affect their decisions. I'm really sorry to hear of what's happening in your neighborhood; thank you for sharing your real world perspective. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4574 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Please don't confuse me with anyone who wants to let the predatory subprimers off the hook. Loan sharks are loan sharks by any other name. However this analysis is grossly oversimplified. Rules are rules and usually for a good reason. As France learned during the Revolution sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. Real positive change never comes from railing against or tearing down "the system" no matter how broken the system may be. The stability of the system always have inherent benefits of everyone. This is not to say anyone should remain docile and ignore injustice but change must come within the system. The American Civil Rights Movement is a perfect example of agitating change within the system. Charles Huston and Thurgood Marshall's long march through the courts to desegregate the schools, the peaceful protests, the legislative efforts to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 were all deliberate, within-the-system efforts to affect change. And we are all better off for those efforts. As John Lennon once put it: "if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao/you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow." I'm sure Gazhekwe just finished reading Howard Zinn and is ready to on the world but as we are relearning in Iraq it is must easier to unseat an old regime than building a new one. | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 357 Registered: 08-2007 |
Um, no. This is something I learned in a career spanning 30 years in civil rights. So don't go patting me on the head, OK? No one is trying to revolutionize the system. We just need to know what it is and why it is, and hopefully dealing with it will become a bit easier as we go along. I do know that as a woman, in the late 60s, I could not get credit. They insisted on tying it up with my husband's credit. When I continued to try and work with the (of course he was a man) loan officer, the man had the gall to look over at my new husband and wink, and say, "Isn't she cute?" Well, I did end up getting my credit, but not from him. Nowadays, I doubt women have that much trouble, so progress is being made. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 365 Registered: 02-2007 |
I'll bet there is more to this story than the paper is reporting. First of all, who in their right mind responds to anything offered by a telemarketer? Seriously, this guy lives in Detroit, he's not aware of crooked tactics by over-zealous sales people? He's playing the victim card and I'm not buying it. | ||
Accraghana Member Username: Accraghana Post Number: 86 Registered: 07-2007 |
Look…. the moves that these buyers made were not “bad” moves. There was absolutely nothing irresponsible about their behavior. When people go out and buy cars and spend just as much money on rims for a depreciating asset, or on ostentatious displays such as gold “Grilz” for your front teeth, then you have an argument. However, purchasing a home, especially in the climate of rapid home appreciation rates, is hardly an act of irresponsibility. Homes were appreciating at two, three and four times the rate of inflation in some areas and historically it is rare that home values in a metropolitan area depreciate. No doubt, some poor people who purchased a home in 2000 and had their home appreciate 25% during that period…. came out pretty good. What I am gleaning here is that when elites put their money into something, like stocks, bonds, housing and what not, they are seen as INVESTORS. When the DOT COM bubble burst and investors lost trillions cumulatively, mostly white folks, I did not hear any talk about personal irresponsibility like when blacks and poor end up losing in investment. Lets be clear, since 2000, the real estate market became an investment arena and with rapid home appreciation rates home ownership was seen as a good investment. So….what are some of you trying to say…..that for poor people to make investments in appreciating assets they are irresponsible? What happened was that the market changed. Assuming that sub prime rates readjusted to high arms after a few years, HAD the market remained as it had been for the last 5 years, the people could have simply sold their homes…..at a profit. When the value of homes started declining, it triggered the collapse and defaults because people could not sell their homes for what they paid for them | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 294 Registered: 08-2007 |
"So….what are some of you trying to say…..that for poor people to make investments in appreciating assets they are irresponsible?" A. Who knows what they're trying to say? So far, I've gleaned that from their throne of judgment... There is no such thing as predatory lending, just stupid poor people who are in trouble because they didn't read the fine print. Swindling has nothing to do with it, nor does race; it's just all the fault of their own stupidity and victim mentality. That about sums up their myopic view of the issue. So in other words, if you're poor and uninformed about consumer finance but want a part of the "American Dream" of home ownership, it's your fault if a lender takes advantage of you. Did I get it? | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 862 Registered: 05-2005 |
I dont think anyone said there was no such thing as predatory lending. Just that most people, of any race and education KNOW that they are there There is absolutely nothing stopping people from asking questions and going to the library if need be, to research and find out the answers before hand. I dont buy the *boo-hoo,I am black and poor so I am unable to figure things out* bullshit. I do believe there are people waiting to prey on the uninformed. What happened to common sense? If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. I guess along with the race card, people want to play the stupid and poor card now. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 99 Registered: 07-2007 |
Detroit is NUMBER 1 ! Yes. |
