  Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 278 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote:Who decides on the priorities? You'd never get people to agree on them. Someone is always going to be pissed because the service that they deemed "important" was one of the things cut. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3846 Registered: 10-2004 |
[I could have included another Duh! here, but won't...] Running the state's functions is the primary job of the executive branch, headed by its governor. Why not ask her, why doncha? If this standoff continues, a shutdown of some state functions will occur out of necessity. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 108 Registered: 07-2007 |
"The entire state government won't shut down due to finances." Yes it will. The state doesn't have the authority to spend a cent without an approved budget. Unless the legislature passed and the Governor approves a continuation budget, everything comes to a halt. Don't forget that the casinos would have to close and casino revenues would be lost since no one would be gambling. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 317 Registered: 12-2006 |
An emergency shutdown plan has been created. I think the ONLY staff that will be working in the event of a government shutdown are Prison guards, State police, and a skeleton crew in the finance divisions of each department. Basically this ensures safety on the roadways and prisons, and there will be staff available to manage the state's monetary assets and ensure that the state makes all of its debt service payments on time. Beyond that, all other state services will be shut down. The only possible exception is if the shutdown occurs in winter and the snowplow crews are needed. In all honesty, the public has a misconception of what state government does for them because with the exception of being pulled over by a state trooper or sitting in line at the Secretary of State, the efforts of government employees are on things that occur behind the scene that the average citizen doesn't notice unless it is gone, thus they take it for granted. | ||
Rooms222 Member Username: Rooms222 Post Number: 33 Registered: 04-2005 |
There is a cottage tax. You do not get the homestead property tax rate (18 mills?). Instead you get the regular rate (around 60 mills in Detroit, I believe). Thus, you pay double or triple if you don't live there as your primary residence. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2727 Registered: 06-2004 |
The governor proposed a balanced budget back in February. The Legislature refused it yet hasn't put forward a solution. The Republicans are going to force a shutdown for purely political purposes. They have absolutely no intent of honestly addressing the budget issue and helping sculpt a solution. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3847 Registered: 10-2004 |
Gotta bite the bullet at some time. At some point, rechargeable batteries won't take another charge. It's about time for Michigan's residents to take back our government instead of having all those 12-month (err... 10 or 11 months, but paid full-time) professionals crashing it further into the ground. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 318 Registered: 12-2006 |
Livernoisyard, are you referring to state employees or the legislature? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2730 Registered: 06-2004 |
"If they shut the state government down, how will we know the difference?" well, in some instances, the golf courses will be more crowded | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3850 Registered: 10-2004 |
Both... No sacred cattle just because of where they "work." No shutdown will be an all or nothing arrangement. That's just another scare tactic of those in government. Let it go down to the wire. The speaker for the state House said on WJR less than ten minutes ago that a state shutdown was a 30% possibility, in his opinion. | ||
Jeduncan Member Username: Jeduncan Post Number: 132 Registered: 11-2006 |
I have no qualms with a tax hike. | ||
7051 Member Username: 7051 Post Number: 41 Registered: 02-2006 |
Udmphikabob, Those dollar amounts that you pay for insurance-is that your portion only and the other half or percentage is paid by your employer? I do know that the City of Detroit pays about $10,000 per year for a family of 4 for Blue Care PPO ($10 copay on visits and prescriptions, a dental rider (75% class I benefits(cleaning, xrays,etc.,)) (50% class II benefits(fillings, etc.)) and very basic vision coverage. We also pay 10% of the total cost with our new contract (DFD firefighters and DPD patrol officers - sergeants and lt. will get the same in their next contract)$37 per pay X 26 pays = $962/year = 10% of the total cost. This is based on 13000-15000 workers (not all have Blue Cross). By comparison, Royal Oak was paying about $17,000 per family for similiar PPO coverage and this was about 5 yrs. ago. Probably due to an economy of scale (300 city workers). Teachers could definitely save the state money by purchasing health care in a bulk amount(consolidation). | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 890 Registered: 11-2003 |
Sstashmoo said: quote:Rooms222 said: quote:Sstashmoo's idea stems from an utterly false premise, and Rooms caught the error but gave incorrect information. As Rooms states, Sstashmoo's target, those apparently freeloading cottage owners, already pay higher property taxes than the "local" folks. In Michigan, local residents are eligible for a "principal residence exemption", on their property tax bill which equates to about 18 mills in most jurisdictions. (18 mills is the maximum school operating millage that can be assessed.) In many rural townships, this can result in a tax reduction of 40-50%. (Rooms got his/her numbers all mixed up.) Sstashmoo's claim that vacation home owners are getting a pass on paying their fair share of property taxes just does not hold water. | ||
Rooms222 Member Username: Rooms222 Post Number: 34 Registered: 04-2005 |
Thanks for the better numbers..Swingline | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 614 Registered: 05-2005 |
The governors tax hike has nothing to do with preserving state services. A tax hike WILL NOT: improve schools, improve roads, or improve any state service. This tax hike is soley about rewarding Grandstand's strongest base of support: State Bureaucrats. The tax hike will enable the state to fully fund each state bureaucrat's obscene benefits package through the rest of her term. Benefits that only the rest of us can dream about. $43,000 in benefits per year per state bureaucrat. Totally obscene. You would think that any governor who was not a snake, would first propose a reduction in these benefits before attempting to steal more from the already overburdened hard-working people of Michigan. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 892 Registered: 11-2003 |
Futurecity, where does your $43K number per state employee come from? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1551 Registered: 11-2003 |
Reworking teacher health care and pensions is going to be part of any plan to fix this budget mess or the GOP will not vote for any tax increase plain and simple. What is most obscene is that our state legislators work for a few years and get lifetime health benefits. That moron Leon Drolet complains and seems to have a solution for all problems, but has never suggested volunteering to give up his lifetime health care to help the state. But he wants ever other state worker to take cuts. Everyone needs to share in the burden and I think our legislature (which has done nothing to help our state right now) could go a long way towards convincing people about cuts to take some cuts themselves. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 109 Registered: 07-2007 |
"The tax hike will enable the state to fully fund each state bureaucrat's obscene benefits package through the rest of her term." Do you mean teachers and prison guards? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3852 Registered: 10-2004 |
Remember that very recent voter proposition that went down in flames after the voters were tipped off than the prime recipients from that scheme would be the teachers' pension plans, and that little money, if any, was to filter down to the classrooms? I remember... | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1149 Registered: 12-2005 |
For every dollar earned by a public school employee, their school district is currently billed 17.5 cents by the state to fund teacher pensions and retiree health care. This billing rate has been increasing annually at a higher rate than the increase in the per-pupil foundation allowance that each district receives. There has been no increase in the amount of state dollars filtering down to the classrooms for quite some time now. In response to this situation, some school districts have outsourced their substitute teacher and custodian needs to educational services contract houses. This allows those districts to reduce their overall substitute costs, but at the same time, without reforms, this practice will only accelerate the rise in the state's billing rate since there are now fewer public school employee hours being worked. | ||
None Member Username: None Post Number: 38 Registered: 07-2007 |
It is estimated that Michigan uses 0.5 million tons of road salt per year, it is relatively inexpensive, costing between $25-50/ton Some reports have estimated that the damage done by salt ranges from 6-30 times the initial cost of the salt, with 90% of the damage due to corrosion. With the corrosive damage to bridges, highways, and vehicles factored in, one study concluded that the actual cost of salt may be closer to $775/ton. Calcium chloride is an effective deicer and costs $250/ton. Urea costs $250/ton http://www.deq.state.mi.us/doc uments/deq-swq-nps-wrm.pdf So we are spending $775/ton to destroy our entire infrastructure not to mention rotting are cars and trucks into an early grave. Imagine the money we could save $550 a ton to start with usage rate at 0.5 million tons that adds up quick not to mention all the infrastructure repair that could be put to good use instead of redoing the same projects over and over again the list of savings and benefits go on for days. 56.000 State employees thats a lot of mouths to feed, I wonder how many are related to the decimation and repair of our roads for no reason other than to feed the machine. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 360 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "Sstashmoo's claim that vacation home owners are getting a pass on paying their fair share of property taxes just does not hold water." Heres what I said: "vacation places in this state and hardly any tax paid on them." I didn't say they weren't paying any, I think they should pay more. These folks can obviously afford it. Why go after some poor bastard working payday to payday? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3854 Registered: 10-2004 |
What a day for Duhs! Saving taxpayer money while staving off state bankruptcy is not an exercise in a mutually exclusive either this or that, but not both scenario. It's not as if one gets spared, as in "Give us Barabbas!" | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 177 Registered: 09-2006 |
quote: LY, you have lamented on these boards that our teachers come from the lower end of the standardized test spectrum. My assumption is that in your opinion higher ACT score equals better teacher. If current pay and benefits aren't luring the types of candidates you would like to see in the classroom, wouldn't that proposition have been a step toward achieving your ideal. And shouldn't reducing teacher pay and benefits be one of the last things considered in our budget crisis? After all, if the pay and benefits would approach what gifted students could receive in other professions, the teaching field might be able to attract and retain more of these people, thereby improving education in our state and making us more competitive overall. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3855 Registered: 10-2004 |
Using a 1-size fits all teacher pay scheme means that in order to attract better teachers, the pay for ALL teachers has to be increased. Of course, included among them would be the incompetents who could never be overpaid elsewhere anywhere near as much as they could as a teacher. So then the incompetents would NEVER leave. According to the Peter Principle, those incompetents have achieved their highest levels of incompetency. (Message edited by Livernoisyard on September 07, 2007) | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 2383 Registered: 03-2006 |
Time for the NEA and tenure to go... | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 319 Registered: 12-2006 |
In reality, state employees are just as jealous of teacher benefits as private sector workers. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3856 Registered: 10-2004 |
Teachers in metro Detroit are (over)paid more on an hourly basis than are engineers. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 718 Registered: 12-2006 |
If you want to get better teachers, you have to pay them based on the quality of their work, not on how long they've held a job. That's how most professional jobs work in the private sector. LY, I've worked with both teachers and engineers. If you are counting as an "hour worked" an hour spent in the workplace, I agree with you. If you are counting an "hour worked" as an hour spent doing something productive that contributes to the end product, I disagree. Quite a few engineers spend much less than eight hours a day doing anything remotely productive, and very few take work home with them. I know of very few teachers who, when they leave the school building, are done working for the day. Nobody, thus far, has given any realistic idea of how to cut $1.8 billion. Bringing employee benefits in line with modern private-sector benefits is an excellent start. Someone asked me about legalizing marijuana: great idea, but I don't know the answer to the question then posed (how much would Uncle Sam hurt us for doing something reasonable like that). | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 320 Registered: 12-2006 |
Livernois, But how many hours "off the clock" do teachers put in? A teacher's work day is not confined to the time in between the first and last bell of the day. There are meetings with parents, lesson plans to write, papers to grade, dances to chaperone, and a host of other responsibilities that teachers must take care of during their non-paid hours. Also keep in mind that to be a full time teacher you basically have to get your masters degree and then continue to update your education through the years. For the amount of education they receive, their top salaries are low compared to other professions. How many other occupations that require a Masters Degree do you know where a person making $75k a year is considered vastly overpaid? |
