Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2007 » New York: Stable, Diverse- Detroit unstable? NYT article « Previous Next »
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Rooms222
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Post Number: 35
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excerpt about rise of white population in NYC:


“The decline of the white population seems to have come to an end,” said Andrew A. Beveridge, a demographer at Queens College of the City University of New York. “After at least six decades of decline, the white population has stabilized, and there is evidence that it even increased during the last couple of years. Unlike other cities, such as Detroit, it may be possible for New York City to be diverse, but with relatively stable populations from a wide range of racial and ethnic groups.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09 /12/nyregion/12census.html
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Apbest
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Post Number: 626
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 2:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

that is a totally unqualified statement that I think is ridiculous
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Lilpup
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Post Number: 2756
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 2:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

minorities are moving out of New York City because they're being priced out
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Crash_nyc
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Post Number: 1018
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 3:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NYC has become the rich man's ghetto.
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 1131
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 7:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It sounds pretty good to me. The city, along with Atlanta, Boston, San Francisco and Washington, remains diverse but does not see the dreaded "white flight" everyone on this board screams about.

Lp minorities are not moving out, asians and hispanics are gaining as well. Only blacks saw declines.

The statement is perfectly accurate, Ap, and it reflects the new idea that white flight is as much or more about property values than racism.

NYC is doing great, no sour grapes please.
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Nighternock
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Username: Nighternock

Post Number: 29
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 7:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I find that in New York a lot of the people moving into the city, and especially Manhattan, are those that grew up outside of the city. Those that are moving out of the city are those that grew up inside of its borders. It's a case of the grass always looking greener.

Also a lot of "real New Yorkers" are making a lot of money off of real estate that they have held for a while and taking their money and parlaying it into a nice home in the suburbs.

If you step into any project in New York it is still mostly black and hispanic. If you step into one of the many new "glass towers" in Manhattan or Brooklyn they are mainly being occupied, at extremely high rents, by young whites. You'll see blacks and hispanics in those buildings, but they are usually the maids or building maintenance workers.
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Michigan
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Post Number: 1132
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 9:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So what is your point? People from outside NY have always moved there, that's what keeps it great, and growing.

Those towers are occupied by whites, asians, blacks, and hispanics. New Yorkers are equal opportunity over chargers when it comes to rent.

And your statement "You'll see blacks and hispanics in those buildings, but they are usually the maids or building maintenance workers.", smacks of condescendence. Is there something wrong with doing an honest days work as a building maintenance worker? Perhaps they should sell drugs instead, those guys always have the best rides.

Grow up and show some respect for hard working honest people. Those jobs would be welcome in Detroit.
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Gazhekwe
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Username: Gazhekwe

Post Number: 478
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 9:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Property values will fall" is a true self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1602
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, people with money are moving into New York... everyone else is being pushed out. This particularly affects the black and latinos.

Last year, or earlier this year the NYC government started to sound the alarms about the endangered middle class in the city.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 2266
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 9:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It needs to be qualified whether we're talking about NYC as a whole or just Manhattan. The last time I visited Brooklyn and Queens, I saw an amazing diversity of people, and it seemed that no single ethnicity was dominant.

Personally, if I was to move to NYC, I'd live in Brooklyn, Queens, or a nice area of the Bronx. To me, the real NYC neighborhoods are in the boroughs.
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Rb336
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Post Number: 2143
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

$3000/month to live in a 600 sq ft studio -- the nice areas of brooklyn are also going up that way -- esp. the ones near the city. same with queens
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 1134
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People of all types are moving to New York, thus the rising prices.

Queens, Brooklyn, The Bronx, Staten Island, and even Northern Manhattan are booming with middle class folks. Of all stripes. This is a very nice problem to have, Detroit should be so lucky.

Now, if Detroit were smart, the city would be working to steal people from expensive places like NY or DC by offering super ownership incentives. How about urban homesteading? But, it will never happen because the wonderful mayor of Detroit is spending his time planning an appeal to his recent loss in civil court. Hey, it's not his money paying the lawyer fees.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1606
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People with money are moving to New York, thus the rising prices. Others are moving out of New York, hence the rise in population in places like Newark, NJ that suffer from much of the same problems as Detroit.

Another interesting note is that New Jersey just dropped to the second richest state per capita... at the same time that New York is seemingly getting richer.
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Michigan
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Post Number: 1138
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Again, so what's your point IHD? People are moving to NY, please relate that to Detroit somehow.
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Iheartthed
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

New York doesn't have the same issues as Detroit.

Detroit doesn't have a New York to feed off of which is why people are moving to Newark.

New York has it's own set of problems brewing because of the very high cost of living (even if somewhat offset by the very low cost of transportation).

How can you say something as stupid as property values are the catalyst for white flight? Property values are the RESULT of white flight.
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 1139
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well IHD, you should do the research on many of the newest studies and theories concerning "white flight".

Perhaps if you actually knew anything about areas where white flight did not occur, in particular Oak Park, Illinois, you would know that my statement is anything but stupid, and in fact based on current scholarly research and work. Unfortunately, you appear to be only partially, and poorly, educated. The effort required to actually learn on your own may just be beyond your abilities. I do not hold your ignorance against you, but your arrogance is another issue.
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Dougw
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Post Number: 1882
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In any case, I'd say the original quote is reasonably accurate. Detroit's populations are still not all that stable, although IMO I'd say they're in the process of "stabilizing", i.e. they're not getting more unstable.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1610
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Am I supposed to be humbled by you throwing words around like "scholarly research"?

Is that the same "scholarly research" that told you there are no similarities between racism and the Indian caste system?
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 1141
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not my scholarly research. I'm too lazy for that. I just read someone else's.

And no, you shouldn't be humbled by any words I say. But you should realize that you're ignorant. Then you can remedy the situation.

Have you followed up on my advice, or are you too busy being angry because you've come off looking a little less than mentally fit again?
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 2758
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rich New Yorkers apt to stay, poorer to move: study

NY, NJ pay highest property taxes: study
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Bratt
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Post Number: 644
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Detroit and Michigan are on the same path though. Look at car insurance rates, house insurance rates, gas prices...cigarette costs (okay I am a smoker okay?), everything here costs so much more than the rest of the U.S.

Us middle class will be moving out...actually many already are.
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Wpitonya
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Username: Wpitonya

Post Number: 45
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Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am originally from the Detroit Metro area, have lived in Charleston, SC for the last 6 years, and just moved to NYC a week ago. I pay $1600 a month for a studio in Chelsea. My point is that it's expensive but you can find things that are not ridiculous. If anyone on this forum lives here, let me know b/c I could use some friends from Detroit!
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Nighternock
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Username: Nighternock

Post Number: 30
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan, CHILL OUT! Please. What's with all of the venom? This is a friendly place, man. No need to sling around the personal attacks. There are nothing wrong with housekeeping and maintenance jobs. Nothing at all. The thing is, you can't live in one of these new glass towers that rent for upwards of 5k/month for what would be a modest apartment in a city like Detroit off of the wages those jobs pay. You'd need to make probably 200k/year or more to live in one of those places. And trust me, I know VERY well the demographics of the people living in those new "glass towers" that are sprouting up in Manhattan. Yes, the people renting the apartments will take anyone's money, but the vast majority are young whites and the vast majority of the people doing the service jobs in those buildings are minorities.
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Belleislerunner
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Username: Belleislerunner

Post Number: 351
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 7:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So if we don't live in mansions like Bill Gates, or high rises overlooking Central Park, we're failures? Read the book "Paradox of Choice". Those who compare themselves, among themselves, are not wise.

Isn't it funny how when we were all five/six we were the happiest kids around. We thought we had it all. Then we started watching VH1's "Most Extravagant Mansions and Yachts" and other "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" shows. Suddenly we felt depressed. There were those richer than us. There always will be. Happiness is a state of soul, not a matter of circumstances. If you aren't happy with 50,000 you won't be happy with 500,000.
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Michigan
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Username: Michigan

Post Number: 1143
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Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right Night, I should chill out. Sorry for snapping at you. The bottom line is, this is a problem Detroit would love to have. Those are jobs that Detroiters would be glad to have.

So instead of everyone saying NY sucks (it doesn't), although it is a lot less wild than it was in the 80s and early 90s, I just want to hear how this pertains to Detroit.

Like I said, if Detroit were smart they would aggressively court people priced out of the market.
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Crash_nyc
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Username: Crash_nyc

Post Number: 1030
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 5:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan:
if Detroit were smart they would aggressively court people priced out of the market.

In my field, they've tried exactly that, unfortunately with dismal results for those who've made the move to Detroit.

I'm a video Editor in NYC, working for a major network, and I have many friends that work in the advertising end of this business, who specialize in cutting TV commercials.

Most of the auto commercials that you see on TV are edited in Metro Detroit-based post-production houses. The "clients" are major ad agencies, such as McCann-Erickson, who conceptualize and produce these ad spots (as contracted by the Big 3). They want top-talent in the Editor's chair for everything they do, and NYC is the East Coast talent base to that end.

The auto companies (through the ad agencies) give the post houses next-to-blank checks to lure talent to Detroit. A friend of mine took the bait a couple of years ago (to the tune of $250k), to move from NYC to edit car commercials in Detroit. He didn't want to leave NYC at first, but the lure of a 50%+ pay raise and a lower cost-of-living was too much to turn down.

He got screwed within less than a year. The post-house's "clients" (the Big 3) decided to cut-back on their advertising budgets in tough times, and subsequently the post-pouse had to let him go as soon as his contract was up. He had to go back to NYC with his tail between his legs and ask for his old job back, which he didn't get.

As long as so much of the job market continues to hinge on the waning auto industry, it'll be difficult to lure talent to Detroit.

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