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Archive through September 12, 2007Rosedaleken30 09-12-07  10:21 am
Archive through September 12, 2007Johnlodge30 09-12-07  1:19 pm
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 369
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TheJesus and Johnlodge, I agree wholeheartedly with you.

Me, I'm always planning for the inevitable next step because I'm selfish and I want the centre of this region's economic resurgence to be originated downtown. In some ways, this economic dip is the best thing that could happen to the city, IMHO. There will be great opportunity as we pull out and on the other side.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 2097
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can someone chime in on this one....

Given that this building is fully leased, is there a realistic possibility of the lot between Compuware and Cadillac tower getting developed at some point in the next 5-10 years?

I don't know it that lot is privately owned or city owned, but I remember hearing something in the past regarding the city trying to pitch it to potential developers

Also, does anyone know if that plot was pitched to or considered by Quicken?

Seems like pretty prime real estate since it's now the last undeveloped parcel on Campus Martius
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 1327
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0912/REG/70912002/1006/FREE
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 3666
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Monroe Block, TJ, is not close to being redeveloped, by any accounts. I think 5-10 years though is a good target idea for when something might get built. Corporate HQ + condos + hotel should be the goal here. I would like to hold out for a skyscraper, but wouldn't be disappointed if something at least the stature of Compuware were built. I believe the block is privately owned.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 2098
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^I don't see why not given the draw of campus martius, the apparent success of One Kennedy square, and the fact that it's the last undeveloped parcel on campus martius...

Seems like a mid-rise in similar scale to One Kennedy would be a logical outcome for that block within the next 5-10 years...

On a side note, the vacancy rate of downtown office buildings is often cited as a reason why new buildings won't succeed, but I think the full occupancy of One Kennedy demonstrates that New, Class A office space has unique advantages and tends to be more attractive to potential businesses than many of the lower quality buildings that are mostly vacant...
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Sknutson
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Username: Sknutson

Post Number: 931
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's hoping that One Kennedy Square being 100% leased helps nudge some more retail on Woodward.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 577
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thejesus,

from what i have heard, it is the city's intent for monroe block to house a skyscraper, something to rival cadillac tower and the first national building in that area, not something like compuware or One Kennedy Square. For this reason, the city is intentionally waiting 5-10 years for this...
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Classico
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Username: Classico

Post Number: 59
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Miss Cleo,

How is pointing out a undeniable fact one-sided and childish? Judging from past posts of yours how was I or others not suppose to take that as a loaded question or pot-stirrer? Give a guy a break will ya.....

You can take all this "Us vs them" bullshit out the window when speaking with me as well. I grew up in the burbs my whole life and reside their currently. You are on a site promoting the growth, prosperity and welfare of Detroit last time I checked. Just sayin.

Your question in a honest manner is not an ignorant one, never said it was. I've talked with many people who work at Quicken and they are quick to point out that if Mr.Gilbert were to move operations downtown they would leave. That answers my questions.

Point is, something tells me not many were very enamored to what the fallout was going to be when things were reversed many moons ago. Add to that, most are equipped for a move of that magnitude better now than before. It's not like an entire commerce industry and tax base is leaving with them. In that matter, they'll be fine.

I mean the whole point that this is a major concern is somewhat hypocritical in the first place. Tis is when I meant when things come full circle.....
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Dustin89
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Username: Dustin89

Post Number: 133
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw; the talk of chain restaurants got me thinking. Obviously Detroit has a nice selection of non-chain restaurants downtown and a chain restaurant would just add to the mix. However, in downtown Pontiac, it's exactly the opposite, as non-chain restaurants are all that there are and they struggle to succeed, with many closing after less than a year in operation. I wonder if a tasteful chain restaurant in downtown Pontiac could be successful/ draw people there more than unknown restaurants have? I'd like to know what your thinking on this is.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 3667
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I pretty much know nothing about downtown Pontiac. Clearly it has struggled like Detroit and a good chain or two, accompanied by non-chains, would be best for it.

Once a downtown gets to a certain point, though, chains are priced out or unneccessary. Look at Main Street in Ann Arbor. Chains are the outlier there.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 522
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:
Does Detroit currently have HOV lanes on the 96, 75, 94, or M-10?

The same money (MTF funds from the state fuel tax) that used to pay for SMART in Livonia will be used to build 18 miles of HOV lanes on I-75. Both MDOT and SEMCOG claim that widening freeways will free up buses in traffic thus reducing maintenance costs which will mean lower local or county taxes in the long run.

This project is approved by the FTA and can be viewed on semcog.org

The matching grants for buses is now reduced but the gas tax is not raised for make up for this loss or to reconnect the bus routes to move people from one city to another.

It is no longer possible to effectively travel in handicapped buses anymore across the Detroit area as money was and is being shifted to expand freeways and roads.
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 373
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whatever. I have heard that "we're going to leave" stuff before from Compuware and others. And almost no one leaves - people love to talk big, but if their jobs are tied to it, they'll go along.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 4929
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed DV...especially w/ the way the economy is right now in the region....
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Jdkeepsmiling
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Username: Jdkeepsmiling

Post Number: 298
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, when companies move toward the core, new hires tend to locate closer. This is a fact. I know that my father-in-law works at Compuware, and he has told me that many new hires locate in Livonia and even some in Detroit, whereas when they were in F.Hills, people looked thirty minutes west from there, into Brighton and Novi. Companies moving to the core helps slowdown the decline of inner ring burbs and stops sprawl...major advantage to that.
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 386
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking on behalf of the grand scheme of things...on a national level per se, there are people in Detroit that would LOVE to have the inconvenience of having to drive life-wasting gigga-commutes to their jobs miles and miles away. Key terms here: miles and miles away.

Before the automobile and the social ills that plague this region and others in America, cities were built on agglomeration, where all people lived in close proximity to their place of employment. Cars came, discriminatory housing practices followed, people fled, and those who remained all of a sudden were stamped with a big, capitol "L" on their foreheads.

Why? Because when the people left, they took the jobs w/ them. Take any course in urban planning or read books on the matter, particularly in inequality and they will tell you this occurred throughout the country. We as a society are still trying to correct that damaging blow, which is very difficult as evidenced by the difficulty in doing business in the city.

So, people will bitch about a long commute. But they will also bitch about how if you drive below 8 Mile, you'll get shot because jobless Detroiters have nothing better to do than rob you. Afterall, all Detroiters don't have jobs and rely solely on gun violence for survival.

Ok, that's a little out of character and of course I'm just trying to make a point which is we're all part of this same spacial system of jobs and the access to them or inaccess to them. Referring back to my initial historical statement about national policy denying employment access to some people in this country reveals the core issue and ultimately the tone of the conversations of those responding to Ms. Cleo. There's a reason why we talk about the high percentage of Detroiters living below the poverty line, just as we talk about the high percentage of them not being able to own a car, yet the majority of jobs in the market are car-friendly. Sure, there's the bus, but the bus is broken...and after 5 times clocking in late, you're fired anyway.

This has everything to do w/ the fascinating observation of concentrated poverty versus dissolved and scattered wealth. The downtown job relocations aren't going to solve the problems, but it's a start in reversing the trend and not to mention creating economic competition with our peer cities, of which is defined by downtown Detroit. There's a lot more where this came from, but I'll save my breath. :-)
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 387
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh yah, one thing I forgot to mention was that scene in Bowling for Columbine that showed the daily bus transporting poor Flint residents to their low wage jobs at Great Lakes Crossing in Auburn Hills.
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Lmcdet
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Username: Lmcdet

Post Number: 10
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's now official... Detroit gets New Headquarter from suburb!!!

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070913/BUS INESS06/70913031/1002
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 2381
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"As a way to convince his employees, he agreed to boost employees’ gross compensation by 1.5% and pay for parking. The company, which designs marketing plans for its clients, hopes to grow from 140 employees to about 225 within three years."

Ohhhh MAN!! Paid parking?! Those lucky bastards!
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 376
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You almost have to provide it - it is the norm in this region to get free parking where you work.

The 1.5% bump in pay must of cost - of course, there are some great deals to be gotten downtown, and when you're leasing 50,000 square feet in a building with a garage below you in the building, you can work a deal.

One thing that is great about this is that people's opinions are, in general, swayed by their pocket book - and it's extremely hard to convince someone of an opinion contrary to their paycheck.

Now, those people's pocket books will be tied into downtown - so, in a couple months, you'll see those people's opinions improve/change.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 2383
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You don't get your parking paid at the News/Free Press.
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Broken_main
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Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 1284
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looking at this full spectrum...So, we get a few more people coming downtown, which is great! These few people will have to invest in other business downtown (the new SuperMcDonald's) and at least 45 more people that live in the city will have jobs(due to the opening of Mickey D's)

Other companies will see that the McD's is doing well and will consider setting up shop as well in the area.

The fastfood restaurants, convenience stores and other small business instantly become an amenity to all of the larger companies and they will strive well together.

This is the beginning of the New Downtown Detroit whether Miss Cleo likes it or not. It's happening and it started from the ground up.

I know that most of the younger people will see all of the wonderful housing opportunities and invest even more into the city by purchasing or renting downtown or nearby.
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 393
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...and we all know that the newly-educated young professionals are the most critical demographic to hang on to. They are the most mobile and are attracted to vibrant cities. Once they leave, places have a difficult time getting them back. The more attractive central Detroit becomes, the more resources we have available to work with in retaining our young talent. This is why Detroit is more important than just itself, just the region, but IS in many ways, the core of Michigan's economy.

So, a few individuals will gripe over a lenghtened commute. They have an opportunity to boost their quality of life by living closer to work in a vibrant, strong community closer to Detroit. This would also boost the educated human capital closer to the central city, making the surrounding areas more attractive and competitive when stacked up against peer metropolitan areas.

They can choose to live at 81 Mile, which is fine. It just doesn't help the greater good.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 2303
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rocket city, the jobs are in the metro area. However, I will eventually need acreage for the lifestyle I want, so I will have to live at "81 Mile." That means a long commute (probably about 90 minutes each way), which I accept.

By the way, screw the "greater good." Not everyone wants to live on a 30 X 100 lot. I get to make my choice and deal with the ramifications.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 3288
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And of course, young educated people tend to pay taxes while demanding very little in the way of expensive services like schools, welfare, etc.
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 395
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know, Fury. That's why I said it was fine. You also have the right to ignore the greater good, which is heavily apparent in Metro Detroit.

Why do you think all those people at 81 Mile want control over the water department? Cuz it costs money to build that large, yet they want the service for next-to-free.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 2392
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you live at 81 mile, I think you live in Bay City.
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Broken_main
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Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 1285
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmm...Bay City is one helluva commute lol
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1619
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This economic crisis might turn out to be the best thing to happen for that region in a long time.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 578
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you are absolutely right
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 397
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's what I've always said...a blessing in disguise so-to-say. Detroit leading the state in building permits keeps one on edge.

Who ever would have thought Flint to be an inner ring suburb of Detroit? ;)
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 378
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting tidbit that WDET reported - that apparently, One Kennedy Square is in a renaissance zone and will give Marketing Associates a large 8-year shield from the new implementation of the state business tax that taxes gross revenue.

What's the boundaries of that zone?
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 883
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit leading the state in building permits keeps one on edge.
------------------------------ ---------------

THey do? I am surprised to hear that. My BIL, an electritian says he hasnt any work, very slow. Also a friend in construction hasnt worked a 40 hours week in months, no building going on
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 2401
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cleo, from the Detroit News, March of this year:

"New residential construction in the city, meanwhile, is at its highest point in more than 30 years. New permits for single-family construction are more than 10 times higher than a decade ago, while the total for southeast Michigan as a whole is down more than 60% over the same period. The city of Detroit led the seven-county metro region in new residential construction in 2006, the regional planning group SEMCOG reported Friday.

Detroit issued 739 permits for new single-family houses, townhouses and multifamily units, the most of any community in the region."



(Message edited by johnlodge on September 13, 2007)
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 2402
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW your construction friends are likely feeling the woes of the mortgage market. Not many new starts anywhere right now, but that's only recently.
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 664
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is great news for Detroit.

As for all the debate out commutes. I don't think commutes times will rise that much if at all. Most people do not live in the same suburb they work in.

Infact many people can probably drive to downtown Detroit faster then to their suburban jobs. So commutes will probably not be that bad.
Most of Metro Detroit is within 30min of downtown Detroit. Its not like people will have to commute an hour and a half.

Anyway Detroit seems to be doing great with getting companies to move into the city. You should send some of that success over to Toronto. Our downtown employment has been stagnating for 5 years now, and we need some growth.

Moving a company to a centrally located downtown is the best for reaching the entire labour pool of a metropolitan area.

This is one more step in making downtown the centre of the region again for big business.

SMART should start offering more Park/Ride bus service from the suburbs to start getting new workers into taking the bus to work downtown. That would help the parking situation also.

(Message edited by miketoronto on September 13, 2007)
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 525
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote

SMART should start offering more Park/Ride bus service from the suburbs to start getting new workers into taking the bus to work downtown. That would help the parking situation also.

SMART officials will not do this unless cities like Livonia pay the local tax.

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