  Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1213 Registered: 09-2004 |
Hopefully this means we've come back to reality. http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20070910/NEWS01/ 70910027 | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2390 Registered: 06-2004 |
Kudos to Mr. Wattrick. If there is anybody that embodies compromise, middle ground, and give and take, it is Jeff Wattrick. I mean the guy has never actually held a firm conviction about anything. quote: | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1663 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: Except chili-cheese fries. And, seriously, who can blame him? | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 300 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here's some good news. This what I thought happened weeks ago. Glad to see it happen now. Anybody going to the press conference at 4pm? Thanks. | ||
Buddyinrichmond Member Username: Buddyinrichmond Post Number: 223 Registered: 02-2004 |
From the article's comments: quote: It's always good to hear folks who get their facts all messed know what is "better" for the D. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 10058 Registered: 12-2003 |
Three Cheers, Jelk! | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 4129 Registered: 10-2003 |
This is great news - kudos to Messrs. Wattrick, Harwell and Spicer for figuring out to work together to save what we can of that great legacy while moving forward to what can be! | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2391 Registered: 06-2004 |
Mr. Wattrick if you are reading this -- the chili-cheese fries are on me next time I am in town! | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1881 Registered: 11-2003 |
Great news. | ||
Falstaff Member Username: Falstaff Post Number: 21 Registered: 09-2007 |
There isn't another major city in the United States that would tolerate a rotting, blighted building like that to continue to stand. EVERY other city that built a new stadium demolished the old one. Without exception (just look past the Silverdome to the north). I'm sure the fans in those communities had fond memories of the old ball park. But the land had value in urban centers and nobody can justify letting that much space rot away. Unless we are all agreeing that Detroit is too far gone and the land around the old stadium has zero value. Hang it up or Ty Cobb's ghost will come back and beat you all down. (Message edited by Falstaff on September 11, 2007) (Message edited by Falstaff on September 11, 2007) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10117 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Typically the people fighting the demolition of the stadium live far from the blight of the stadium. | ||
Falstaff Member Username: Falstaff Post Number: 22 Registered: 09-2007 |
Amen. Suburban (and I live in a suburb) arrogance is driving this train. If you love that hunk of junk so much, move to Corktown so that you may gaze upon the rotting hulk everyday. It's long gone!!! | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1591 Registered: 03-2006 |
after going to Wrigley field it hurts to know we could of had one of the oldest stadiums in the league instead of the "painted whore" commercial park | ||
Crash67 Member Username: Crash67 Post Number: 34 Registered: 05-2007 |
BTW, does this news mean that the sports and music museums are no longer included in the plan? Sounds like they wouldn't be able to find the $$$ for those pieces anyway. | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 302 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Give me a break. Just because someone else buys a McMansion, are you going to follow suit? Where is the justification in that argument but comparison to the lowest common denominator? How 'bout breaking that chain of circumstance? Ok, at this time, it looks like only about 3,000 seats will be saved, but at least some people tried to do something different, something constructive to set the city apart from the destruction of storied ballparks elsewhere. Yes, the people of Corktown are totally in the right to be concerned about what happens in their neighborhood, but my beef isn't with that view. It is with this argument I've heard again and again in Detroit--"Every other city demolished their old ballpark." How about you make like George Pierrot and hit the road--in a good way? Do you know that London has done with their soccer stadium? Do you know what Toronto is remaking the Maple Leaf Gardens? Do you know the people of Baltimore wanted a better fate for Memorial Stadium than it ended up in? Do you know that Cleveland is spending $8 million to revive League Park? Do you know that NY Mets' fans are fighting just to save the Home Run Apple at Shea? And rest assured, if Detroit struggled this much to save something of their fabled ballpark, Boston will go to even more extreme lengths to make something work with their beloved Fenway, should the Red Sox ever want a new stadium. This "Every other city destroyed their old ballpark" argument, sends me up a wall, because not only is wrong, per the examples above, but also because it shows a lack of imagination and a destructive insularity. quote: And I'm sure, you'll be quick to agree to that! Again, my congrats to the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy and for those who did what they were able to do. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4589 Registered: 10-2003 |
Xd_brklyn, Do you know that London's rehab of Arsenal Stadium is part of a two-billion dollars publicly funded re-development scheme for that part of London? Give southwest Detroit two-billion public dollars for re-development and Tiger Stadium could and would be re-developed in the manner of Arsenal Stadium. When tax time comes around who is going to pony up? Maple Leaf Gardens from wikipedia: quote: Turn Tiger Stadium into a Lowes? Seriously? Baltimore selected a proposal for Memorial to demolish that stadium. If that decision caused so much outrage why did Maryland voters elect then-Baltimore Mayor Martin O'Mally Governor. He unseat an incumbent for God's sake. Do you know that all that remains of League Park in Cleveland is an unmaintained field, ticket office, and outfield wall. The 8 million dollar for the proposed "re-development" of League Park is public money to essentially re-create elements of something demolished 50 years ago. Don't misunderstand, Cleveland's plan for League Park is outstanding but it isn't a rehabilitation or a preservation project. Setting aside the very real and very important questions about public funding for NY's two new ballparks for just a second...Shea Stadium is a dump and one of Robert Moses' urban planning obscenities. He drove the Dodgers to LA just so he could build that dump. Good riddance, the airplane noise alone. The faux-Ebbets Field facade for the Mets new park will be a huge improvement. If they incorporate the Home Run Apple into the new ballpark or as part of something else in Flushing that's fine, well, and good but don't confuse Shea with the classic ballparks. If and/or when John Henry wants to replace Fenway then we can talk about what Bostonian would do about Fenway. "This 'Every other city destroyed their old ballpark' argument" isn't to justify demolition of Tiger Stadium. Instead what the Conservancy is pointing out is that the re-development of Tiger Stadium presents a tremendous and unprecedented challange. Saving the structure from dugout-to-dugout, using the facility to house and display Ernie Harwell's incredible collection, and turning over the field to Detroit youth baseball is a great re-use. As Ernie Harwell himself said, this project is no longer so much a demolition as a scaling back to meet future uses. The city is going to dismantle what will be removed and recycle much of the building materials. At the end of the day this is a tremendous and unprecedented opportunity for Detroit. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 10116 Registered: 12-2003 |
You rock, Jelk. Keep on keepin' on. | ||
Falstaff Member Username: Falstaff Post Number: 23 Registered: 09-2007 |
Poor Ernie. Needs to remain relevant so desperately. Listen up - Every brick of that place needs to come down, the train station needs to come down. Detroit shouldn't be known for a collection of ruins. The "plans" to preserve the stadium are imbecilic from a financial standpoint. Let go, the old girl died a while ago. Why won't you bury her? It's long gone! | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 10127 Registered: 12-2003 |
That is a shitty post, Falsestaff. The plan that the Conservancy is promoting, sans compromises from this new union, was far from imbecilic. I will await Jelk's pointed acerbic reply...but do not dump on one of the city's most honored celebrities. He is not trying to remain relevant, that is one of the most fucked-up comments I've ever read. | ||
Falstaff Member Username: Falstaff Post Number: 25 Registered: 09-2007 |
Tsk, tsk. Can't express yourself without profanity? How sad. "Honored celebrities" ? Ernie called the games, he wasn't a finance guy. Just because he is an "honored celebrity" doesn't mean he understands anything about development, finance, or reality. Bill Bonds is something of an honored celebrity. Should we give him the keys to the school bus? It's long gone! | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 10130 Registered: 12-2003 |
Tsk-tsk? Oh, playing out the righteous indignation card, after slamming an old man who deserves nothing of the sort? Nice show of YOUR character, or lack thereof...no matter which words you choose to voice your intolerance and bitterness and spite. I was just more honest and concise with my reaction to you, consider it shorthand. Bill Bonds is no Ernie Harwell...not even a close analogy. | ||
Falstaff Member Username: Falstaff Post Number: 26 Registered: 09-2007 |
Shouldn't Ernie move across the street from Michigan and Trumbell? That way he can look upon the old girl every day. Oh, wait. Ernie lives in the suburbs and isn't forced to confront the blight and decay in Detroit. In his quest for continued relevance, he inflicts a diminished quality of life upon those living near a blighted municipal property. Intolerance, bitterness and spite? Why are you intolerant of the neighbors living in Corktown? It's long gone! (Message edited by Falstaff on September 12, 2007) (Message edited by Falstaff on September 12, 2007) | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 303 Registered: 10-2003 |
Jelk, Again, my argument wasn't with the Conservancy, I thought that was pretty clear. The just of my post was to point out the falsehood from False-staff that "EVERY other city that built a new stadium demolished the old one." Without getting into the use of public money or the question of reuse, the fact that London has worked to keep their stadium and that Toronto will remake the Gardens into a shopping mall simply proves that statement as wrong. My comments about Baltimore, Cleveland, and Mets fans were to show the sentiment to keep something of their old ballparks as part of their civic history was not unique to Detroit and that effort of the Conservancy and other groups to keep as much of the stadium as possible were totally legit and not odd or unusual. Again, it was directed at this comfy "Every other city..." argument that has been used by those who want Tiger Stadium leveled to the last brick (See above). | ||
Falstaff Member Username: Falstaff Post Number: 27 Registered: 09-2007 |
Economic viability. Does anyone here REALLY believe that displaying the brick a brac from Ernie's basement will generate enough revenue to pay the expenses for this pie in the sky scheme? Real development will not come to Detroit until city leaders demonstrate a willingness to clean up their own messes. Tear it down, every last brick. It's long gone! | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 306 Registered: 10-2003 |
I have no idea of the financial structure behind the Conservancy's plans, but museums and other non-profits are not usually economic viabilities in the usual shopkeeping sense. They are maintained by grants, donations, endowments, contributions, volunteers, staff, and sometimes public funding that stems from a conviction and belief in their mission. | ||
Falstaff Member Username: Falstaff Post Number: 28 Registered: 09-2007 |
I don't believe the Conservancy has any idea what the financial structure of their plan is. This whole idea is so half -baked and hostile to the future of Detroit. "They are maintained by grants, donations, endowments, contributions, volunteers, staff, and sometimes public funding" The City of Detroit and the State of Michigan are both nearing insolvency. I think it is safe to assume public funding won't be in the cards. It's long gone! | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4590 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Maybe you could enlighten them since you are so well versed on this issue. Peter Riley's website lists the Conservancy's email address as oldtigerstadium@gmail.com. If the Conservancy fails then the city will finish dismantling the entire building. So what's the problem aside from your clear and irrational disdain for Ernie Harwell? I realize his 40 years of bringing Tiger games to your home and car via WJR and WXYT must have been a real burden. How dare he spend a few months with a group that includes folks with serious development experience to create a sustainable plan for Tiger Stadium.Good golly he's history's greatest monster! Seriously though, if the city was saying let it sit there forever and ever until the Conservancy can make something work I'd agree with you but that's not what is happening at all. In fact I think the Conservancy's success will strengthen and drive new development on the site. Tiger Stadium has a real historical cache. Why not try to leverage that history to maximize the re-development of the Tiger Stadium. | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 307 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Hostile to the future of Detroit"? Renowned cities have always used their history to promote themselves further. Having something of Tiger Stadium to display will be a welcome addition to Detroit's other landmarks. Also, in regards to non-profits, besides grants, donations, endowments, contributions, volunteers, staff, and public funding, I forgot to add licensing, retail, and membership programs. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1883 Registered: 11-2003 |
I suppose there are really three camps on this issue, not two camps. Those who want to: 1. Preserve all of the stadium/field, or 2. Tear down part or most of the stadium and preserve the field, or 3. Tear down & remove all of the stadium/field I'm firmly in Camp #2, as is the Conservancy, and much of Corktown from what I've heard. Long-term, IMO it really is a much better option than either #1 or #3. (Message edited by Dougw on September 12, 2007) | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 592 Registered: 11-2005 |
I saw people walking around the ramp up the stadium today. Anyone know whats going on? |
