  Pmatylonek Member Username: Pmatylonek Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2007 |
Atwater: Racists do not come in one color or size or gender. It is a problem in the Detroit area all over. | ||
Mpow Member Username: Mpow Post Number: 277 Registered: 11-2003 |
great post, i agree... | ||
Atwater Member Username: Atwater Post Number: 16 Registered: 09-2007 |
quote: Pmatylonek, did you not read what I wrote?: quote: | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2675 Registered: 07-2004 |
The racism bullshit excuse is jus that an excuse......and a lame one at that. People leave any place including Detroit because they insist on being safe.Safe means feeling reasonably sure that your house is not gonna get broken into, your car is no gonna be vandalized, your garage is not gonna be ransacked.........I think you all get the picture. People continue to leave Detroit.......these are not white people...... the racsim angle is laughable as a reason for people leaving and it simply excuses a city government that for years has not done much about crime. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 420 Registered: 04-2006 |
Michigan's growth patterns are getting very expensive to operate. Nobody wants to "pay" for what's been neglected. Nobody wants to "pay" for what's to be built. Add those two together and you get a society that demands low taxes, a low quality of life and an unsustainable infrastructure. Add another burden of bipartisan pushing and shoving at the cost of total state collapse, and you have your recipe for a mass exodus of people while the rest of the country watches on with toilet paper in hand asking if they can wipe our @sses for us, since we obviously don't know how. And if we did, we'd need someone to do it for us anyway, because we wouldn't want to pay for that either. I'm moving with my tax dollars to Iraq. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 503 Registered: 02-2006 |
Those three reasons are all leadership responsibilities, not totally, but it starts there. KK, is not really addressing any. Archer restarted Detroit's economic engine, and I wish he stayed in office or at least Hendrix was elected. IMAO, Detroit was heading down a GOLDEN path with Archer. With KK, its beginning to look a lot like CAY. If Detroit re-elects KK, Detroit will really go to shit. KK, should not seek re-election. He will (if the ignorant residents allow) stay in office until he dies, and at 37 Detroit could be looking at 50 years of BAD LEADERSHIP!•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••<313> | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 421 Registered: 04-2006 |
Leadership indeed. Look at L. Brooks and how great his leadership is as a politician for Oakland County. When it comes to Detroit, however, we might as well flush our hopes and dreams away. There needs to be some major policy changes in this state from the state level, down to the regional and local. No one takes accountability for anything, at least so it seems, and since that's the case, of course it's the person or party's fault whose stance is different than yours. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4216 Registered: 10-2004 |
KK is simply waiting for his mother to vacate her position for him to run for it. He'll be elected mayor until that happens. Just watch! That's his game plan. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 422 Registered: 04-2006 |
^Hmmm...Interesting. I never thought of it like that. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2893 Registered: 06-2004 |
quote: So on target, Rocket, but it's an attitude that's nationwide, not only in Michigan. It's just not as in your face 24/7 in other places. My train was hours late getting into Chicago yesterday morning. Since I hadn't booked a room in advance and would only be using one for about 7 hours total, I decided to not bother. It gave me an opportunity to see downtown Chicago in a way many don't. I just walked around, nighttime tourist, until Starbucks opened. I think Chicago has more homeless than Detroit, yet Chicago's are more invisible during the day. What can one think when seeing window ledges of high-end designer stores being used as bunk space for the disenfranchised? To walk into a church courtyard to admire a fountain and find every corner occupied by sleeping people? To see grandparently men and women curled up on the steps of a seminary? No, they weren't all racial minorities, so nobody even go that route. And what is one of Chicago's most heavily advertised attractions? Shopping the Magnificent Mile. As violent as Detroit or not, the disregard for fellow human beings that could use some help is still there (btw I saw one guy get up at daybreak, put his cardboard away, and go out with his squeegee and bucket, though I saw only one person selling the street paper). In my eyes, a big, seemingly pretty and successful, city's shiny downtown lost a lot of luster that night. Back to your comment, Rocket, I guess that Detroit, maybe even Michigan, is to the country what a city's homeless are to the rest of its populous. (Message edited by lilpup on October 07, 2007) | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 468 Registered: 02-2007 |
313, totally agree, Detroit will never recover with the present leadership. It takes more than a few nice buildings downtown to revive a city. As long as the city burbs are crime ridden and uninhabitable, few businesses will consider the D in their planning. The fathers are trying to fix everything with taxation and driving away more "taxpaying" residents in the process. Personally, I think the city will totally implode, given their track record on voting. They keep hanging on to whats killing them. Check the census numbers, we can't keep losing population and build a city in the process. And this notion that Detroit residents will sustain Detroit is just naive at best. A city's commerce limited to it's boundaries will die rather quickly. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 424 Registered: 04-2006 |
Interesting perspective, Lilpup. I can add to that...Two Fridays ago when I was out on my bike through greater Downtown photographing the city (in particular the construction projects) I ran into a man named David at Second and Willis. My camera was pointed in the opposite direction of where he was standing, yet I heard him holler, "HEY, hey take my picture, will ya? Let me get out my sign, and you can take my picture." At first I just sighed under my breath and thought I wasn't in the mood to be bothered. But then I looked his way and saw him standing there on the corner with his "HUNGRY" sign in hand waiting for me to acknowledge him...so I pointed my camera his way and asked, "are you sure? You don't have to put up your sign, you know!" He insisted. http://downtownmotown.8k.com/R ainyChicago/2007_0928DetDev09_ 28_070044.jpg So, after I took his picture, he walked up to me and shook my hand at which time I told him I wish I could help him but I wasn't carrying any money (a lie). To get to my point, about a half an hour went by before we went our separate ways. During that time he carried on in conversation about things I couldn't care less about (his drug habit and involvement in prostitution), but also things that we both were aware of (the possible state shut down, the cold weather coming, the people you meet on the streets), etc. Sometimes all these people want is someone to talk to and carry on a conversation with. If anything, it brings a sense of normalcy back into their lives. Even though he kept going on about stuff I didn't necessarily care about, I was genuinely interested in just being there for him and looking him in the eye when he was talking to me...and asking him questions in return. That's what I like about living in the city. People living in a challenged lifestyle such as David's are going to exist no matter what, and every now and then, you get the opportunity to offer them something other than money. Who knows, maybe sometimes these types of instances can be life changing? But how would they ever happen if my socioeconomic status demanded that I be put "where I belong in Metro Detroit", never to have social contact with the likes of him ever? I think that's more of what America is about, especially in the Midwest where we are suppose to pretend that everything is rosy and much more relaxed than the coasts. I'm not excusing David's (what could have been) poor choices in life, but that doesn't mean he is not deserving of attention. After all, what kind of life would this be if we all lived only for ourselves? | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 1323 Registered: 08-2006 |
1. Crime 2. Horrible run down and violent schools staffed by a largely indifferent staff 3. blight and overall poor economic shape of the city 4. Poor city services which do little to help residents. High taxes with little in return. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2894 Registered: 06-2004 |
So, Milwaukee et al, do you ever stop to think about what causes crime? | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 1022 Registered: 06-2004 |
I think the thread leader is both correct in the sense that it states obvious truisms and somewhat out of school in that the author does not understand the structural problems facing the region nor appreciate the extent to which region is trying to address those. specifically, 1. I don't think wealthier people fear and diss downtown Detroit. We're at a point where the majority of people in the region under 50 are not afraid to go downtown. 2. Mass transit. Sounds great, except that the required routes would need to cover thousands of square miles of suburbia at a cost of tens of billions. In Chicago, you have 500,000 people working downtown and that concentration makes a transit system possible. People in Chicago, where I lived for 15 years, do not signifcantly use mass transit to commute within the suburbs. 3. The industrial economy is so passe? I am in the Silicon Valley software industry, but let me be the first to leap up and say is truly uniformed crap. First, US industrial output and exports are both at all time highs (and going higher soon with the dollar depressed). Second, industry is crucial to our country's economic leadership. A large portion of the econmic value add of manufactured products is technology in their designs and manufacturing process. The ignorant yuppies living in Lincoln Park don't fully comprehend this. They think manufacturing is mindless assembly work and that accounting, law, banking and advertising are the true sources of society's wealth. The entire technological backbone of our country is highly dependent upon manufacturing. It is nothing short of economic suicide for the US to cede manufacturing to China or others. Having addressed that point, yes, the area is actively trying to diversify, but since its competitive advantage is advanced manufacturing technology this will, must and should be a central focus of its economic development activities. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 208 Registered: 06-2007 |
Race is a huge issue. Why does it come up in every election? "Whos blacker?" or "This guys popular with white suburbanites so hes bad". Militant voters elect leaders with a militant agenda (Watson, bates, etc). More voters need to show up, and they need to demand accountability. Demand to know where that tax money is going INSTEAD of increasing police patrols and hiring more cops.When guys like Lonnie Bates are taking city money and (allegedly) paying people for work they didn't do, while the police are so short-staffed that runs are backing up and criminals know they can get away, voters need to start demanding more. Go hate on the suburbs, but the voters and residents there have stronger demands and are willing to pay for more police protection...and follow up to make sure the money isn't being misused. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4218 Registered: 10-2004 |
Chicago's not as well run as could be. Today's annual Marathon had to be halted (for the slower runners) at noon because of the heat and that they ran out of water (incredible!) at the watering holes for the slow runners. Residents in the condos along the route tried to oblige by running their garden hoses. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on October 07, 2007) | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 1324 Registered: 08-2006 |
"So, Milwaukee et al, do you ever stop to think about what causes crime?" 1. No jobs. Michigan having lost 400,000 jobs in the last 17 years does not improve the situation. 2. Poor schools. Uneducated people are usually the one's doing the crime which is driving people away. 3. Lack of respect for oneself and the community. I don't know how to fix the last reason. This is the job of every parent to fix. The first two I believe can be helped by the state. I mean the responsibility lies more with the government on the first two while the last one is more an issue for individuals to deal with. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4219 Registered: 10-2004 |
It's not the responsibility of the state to provide jobs, especially when there are plenty of jobs for those too stupid to migrate to them. Illegals travel over a thousand miles for work and our lazies are content to live on welfare and bitch. Tough for them! | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 1325 Registered: 08-2006 |
I mean the government can control the flow of jobs. Michigan had/has very high taxes thus driving a lot of business out of state. Lower the taxes and attract more business. The government has control over taxes and economic policy thus they have at least partial control over the economy. I do not believe that it is the job of the state to provide jobs to the citizens, but I do feel it is their job to try and provide a climate which will allow economic growth. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4220 Registered: 10-2004 |
Tell that to the RINOS who just raised the state income tax 11% a week ago. And then imposed a selective 6% services tax, especially when Granholm said she only wanted a 2% services tax! Now, the Dems are running ads on WWJ this weekend stating that for only pennies a week, they fixed everything. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 1326 Registered: 08-2006 |
You cannot fix all the problems at once. One may read my previous post and say "hey, how do you expect to lower taxes and increase spending on better education?" Lower the taxes and create more business. More businesses paying a slightly lower rate will generate more money. More money can be put to use in creating a more diversified and educated workforce. Michigan can not expect to see major economic growth as long as it continues to rely on manufacturing and continues to raise taxes. Its just a fact. It would be great if all the state's problems could be fixed at once, but they can't be. Its going to take a long time. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4221 Registered: 10-2004 |
A big part of Michigan's problems are related to crime. How many Michiganders know that 16,000 of the 54,000 state workers are in Corrections? That's about 30% of them. If they weren't so many criminals, we wouldn't need that many in Corrections. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2401 Registered: 07-2004 |
No one says that facing insurmountable odds is going to be easy. There are sacrifices that have to be made and in some cases people's property as well as people's lives have to be sacrificed to improve things. For instance, had whites not been so hostile to blacks for so many years here in Detroit, then perhaps blacks wouldn't be so hostile to whites, and then whites would not have felt compelled to move out of Detroit so quickly. Had whites stayed in Detroit and confronted their past and tried to rectify their past transgressions with blacks, then perhaps whites and blacks would be living in harmony in Detroit today. If more cooperation between blacks and whites had occurred earlier in Detroit's history, then we probably wouldn't be in the situation we are in today. Remember, there was racial tension in Detroit over jobs and housing during WWII. The race riot in 1943 was the result. That was 64 years ago and we are still having racial problems. Our situation here is in a way no different than the fighting that goes on in Israel between the Jews and the Palestinians. The only difference is the level of hatred directed towards each group. In Israel the hatred is demonstrated through physical violence. Here in Metro Detroit, the hatred is displayed by avoidance. Had whites stayed put in many Detroit neighborhoods and accepted the few blacks who could afford moving into their neighborhoods, then things might have been better. Yes, there would have been some tension and perhaps assaults and deaths but things today would probably be better. The problem with Detroit, the suburbs, and the State of Michigan is that everyone is fearful of each other. As a black person, I wouldn't move to Livingston County to save my life because I've heard the Klan set up shop there and remnants of that attitude still remain. Yet, I am willing to take my chances living here in Detroit because there's a large number of blacks living here, despite the criminal element. I'm not brave enough to sacrifice my comfort level or even my life moving out to Livingston County, even if what I've heard is only rumor. I get the feeling that many whites in Livingston County would feel the same way about moving to Detroit. Who's going to be the first person to take the next step, the white person or me. All that I've said above is to make the point that if we stop running from our problems and find a way to confront them, then we all could live relatively well and cheaply as well. Money for road construction wouldn't have to go to 50 places outside of Detroit. It would all go here, benefitting the millions of inhabitants living in Detroit city proper. The same would apply for water rates and electricity. A city income tax would not have to be imposed or would be at a lower rate because there would be more people living in the city to spread the tax around. So much of the costs of doing things here in Michigan is because so many people want to live in their own private kingdoms, unaffected by the evils that lurk in the world. Also, very few here in Michigan want to share the wealth or the burdens equally. How many group homes are in Birmingham compared to Detroit? How many soup kitchens are in Birmingham? How many NIMBYers live in Metro Detroit who don't want anything to inconvenience their way of life? Past transgressions can only be forgiven when those in the present make an effort to amend the past and make things better for future generations. Remember, gains are attained only after making sacrifices. We here in Michigan have to start making sacrifices that benefit every one and not just our selves and families. Running away to another state is still just running away. Haven't we here in Michigan done enough of that? (Message edited by royce on October 07, 2007) | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 1327 Registered: 08-2006 |
"How many Michiganders know that 16,000 of the 54,000 state workers are in Corrections?" I would rather have less crime than more correctional officers. Some might see crime a positive force for the state and its economy after reading that. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 425 Registered: 04-2006 |
"Now, the Dems are running ads on WWJ this weekend stating that for only pennies a week, they fixed everything." Yes, but only a fool would believe that anything good that comes from the decisions made in Lansing are a product of Democratic leadership. The fact is that the ultimate outcome is a product of a bipartisan agreement. True, it may have been initiated by the Dems, but shame on them if they think they get all the credit...that is if this reform proves to bring positive change. Same goes for the Republican adds and their blame game. You can't blame the Dems for what they believe is a disaster because it was impossible to happen if there was not a certain level of Republican support. We are a foolish people though and we have our swords drawn ready to slice the throat of those who disagree w/ our views. The only one whose been tortured thus far though is the state of Michigan. Our home. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2402 Registered: 07-2004 |
One other thing that I want to add. The state of Mississippi has very low taxes. Yet many of its residents are poor because there are few manufacturing jobs compared to Michigan. That's why casinos along the Gulf of Mexico have appeared. Michigan has always had higher taxes because it had people who were being paid higher wages. Some of those taxes paid for those who weren't well off. These taxes paid for social programs,like welfare, but not just welfare. Now, all of a sudden people are ticked off about paying those taxes because the jobs aren't as plentiful to pay for those programs. That's understandable, but remember the State of Michigan has for decades led the way in providing people with a living wage. Can you say the same thing about the State of Mississippi? | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 426 Registered: 04-2006 |
"Now, all of a sudden people are ticked off about paying those taxes because the jobs aren't as plentiful to pay for those programs." All of a sudden statewide maybe, but addressing this locally, the citizens of Detroit have been starved of access to jobs for many many years. Yet, have their taxes ever fallen? How do you pay for a city of 2 million with only 1/2 of those residents still living there, a majority of them in poverty? All while the surrounding area is called by national media, one of the wealthiest parts of the country. We've made our bed...Now, ...how does the rest of the saying go? When it comes to jobs, Metropolitan Detroit has one of the most spread out concentrations (or lack there of) of jobs in the country. In other words, too many people have to travel too far in order to go to work. If you are poor and live in a place like Detroit, this is equivalent to hell on earth. And we scratch our heads when the story about the Detroiter who wakes up at 5 in the morning to catch a bus to her job in Auburn Hills and doesn't come so she gets fired and then can't support her children. There are TWO Americas. Which one do you live in? | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 1274 Registered: 04-2007 |
Quote "Our situation here is in a way no different than the fighting that goes on in Israel between the Jews and the Palestinians." If this is not the stupid post du jour I do not know what the hell it is. | ||
Tigers2005 Member Username: Tigers2005 Post Number: 141 Registered: 02-2005 |
From what I have read, the excessive cost in our corrections system is due to our criminals averaging a longer stay in prison, not due to a higher crime rate. Maybe we feel a bit safer because criminals stay in longer, but the result is a higher corrections population. Someone has to pay for it, or sentences need to be shortened. What would you like to see? |
